Topic: Arsenal

[Chivasino]

It basically just means that if we are calling Arsenal 'kids' then surely the same should apply to a team only marginally older than them, on average? In that case, when is the 'kids' excuse going to run itself out?

This. They arn't young. That is the point.

[kingkenny79]

The mean of Barca is only one year more than Arsenal. However, the Barcelona's mode is 30, Arsenal's is 22 and Barca's median is 28, whereas Arsenal's is 24. That's going by the starting 11 last night. There looks to be more variance in Barca's age though. Not going to work that out as it's a bit sad. The mean is by far the most accurate way of judging things though.

Thats too statistic IMO..
I even forgot the formula to calculate all the above maths u mentioning above..

[Tommy_W]

This. They arn't young. That is the point.

The kids thing is just a rubbish line they roll out because they aren't winning anything. Anyone over the age of 18 is not a bloody kid

[the_prodigal_s0n]

Thats too statistic IMO..
I even forgot the formula to calculate all the above maths u mentioning above..

Mode is the players with the most frequent age in the team. Barca's is 6 years older than Arsenal. Median is the middle age, and Arsenal's is 4 years younger. But the mean is the best measure of it. That's the one where you add them all up and divide by 11.

But to make things easier, Arsenal's defence last night was a few years younger, Barca's midfield three was much older, and Barca's attack was a few years younger.

[Walshy nMeŽ]

Don't think Rafa even got a pat on the back when we went there and beat them.  Wenger seems to be getting much more praise, after a 1-4 drubbing.

[MagicHat]

The kids thing is just a rubbish line they roll out because they aren't winning anything. Anyone over the age of 18 is not a bloody kid

Playing wise, would say anyone over 23 is not a kid.

Yes, the youngster thing is way overplayed

[Jookie]

Almunia = 33
Sagna = 27
Vermaelen = 25
Silvestre= 33
Clichy = 25
Denilson = 22
Diaby = 24
Walcott = 21
Nasri = 23
Rosicky = 30
Bendtner = 22

There is no way the Arsenal team is as young as the press has made out. This team is basically the same as it was 2 or 3 seasons ago -  when the 'kids' argument may have been more relevant. However, in saying all that they did start last night's game with 7 players who are 25 or under. Now while that isn't a 'bunch of kids' it is still a young team at this level.

Arsenal have some weaknesses that have been there for all to see in the games against the very best sides they've played this season (i.e. Chelsea, Arsenal, Barce). However, I don't think they are that far away from being a top, top team again. 2 or 3 key players would be all they need. Priority number one would be a new GK. Almunia is a decent back-up keeper but makes too many mistakes. A top GK can win you a lot of points over the season. I think they also need a CB -  Vermaelen and Gallas are both very good, however, having to rely on Campbell or Silvestre when one is injured is a major disadvantage.

The other position they need to strengthen is up front, where I think they are in a similar position to us. Van Persie is a superb player but injury prone. The back-ups are no way near his standard. Bednter is a decent young player but not someone you would want to rely on week in, week out at the moment (similar to N'gog for us). Eduardo has never been the same player since he returned from injury, and Arsenal in some respects have been unlucky with his injury. If they'd had a pre-injury Eduardo to call upon this season in Van Persie's absence they've have certainly bagged a few more points.

Arsenal, for all their drubbings at the hands of the very best teams this season, have reached the CL quarter finals and are 3 points off the top of the Premier League with 5 games remaining. They aren't a million miles away and, as we saw last season, the difference between 1st and 2nd (or 3rd) can be very small. In the coming season's Arsenal will also have increased spending power and that is a real concern. Once they can go out and buy a 20-30M pound striker, or a 20M GK then that just might be the difference from being the nearly-men to the top dog. If I was an Arsenal supporter my concern would be whether Wenger would be willing to spend the money to bring in big name players, and if he did whether he could get it right.

[afcgooner]

I wish the young thing would go away. Just annoying and if anything, just gives excuses.

[Daranoza]

Of them players listed I’d say only Denilson and Walcott qualify as ‘kids’ to be honest. Bendtner if we’re pushing it.

[the_prodigal_s0n]

Of them players listed I’d say only Denilson and Walcott qualify as ‘kids’ to be honest. Bendtner if we’re pushing it.

Bendtner, Nasri and Denilson are all the same age. They might be a few months older, but none of them is 23 yet. But yeah, the kids argument is an utter joke. If Wenger feels that his side are too young, it's time to start buying experience.

[stoa]

Bendtner, Nasri and Denilson are all the same age. They might be a few months older, but none of them is 23 yet. But yeah, the kids argument is an utter joke. If Wenger feels that his side are too young, it's time to start buying experience.

The thing is Nasri was hardly an inexperienced kid they picked up from some school in Marseille. He was a full French international with over 100 games for Marseille. Arsenal have done a good job with some players like Fabregas, Clichy or Denilson who came there and had next to no experience, but the press has taken them and turned them into some kind of role-model for treating every other Arsenal player. Rosicky, Eduardo, Vermaelen, Sagna, Nasri, Arshavin are NO kids. Hell, even Bendtner played a full season for Birmingham before he made it at Arsenal...

[kingkenny79]

Ajax of the 1994/1995 season , thats really a great young squad...

[Neil D]

I do wish people would stop with this "and they've won nothing again this year" their only 3 points off the top and could still win the league. I don't want them to, i'd much rather it be chelsea, but that's by the by. They still can win the league, credit where it's due. Yes they got massacred tonight, but that's them in Europe.

Yeah, but they won't and we all know it. Wenger blew that chance when he risked Fabregas and Gallas in a tie they had no chance of winning. He would have been better resting his stars these last few weeks for Birmingham away, Wolves at home and the games to come.

[Chivasino]

Ajax of the 1994/1995 season , thats really a great young squad...

After they won the CL they were all on Stage in the middle of Dam, pissed out of their heads singing "Bayern, Bayern! who the fuck are Bayern? Milan, Milan! Who the fuck are Milan?"

Great side that was.

[LFC when it suits]

Yeah, but they won't and we all know it. Wenger blew that chance when he risked Fabregas and Gallas in a tie they had no chance of winning. He would have been better resting his stars these last few weeks for Birmingham away, Wolves at home and the games to come.

Was it you who said that our chances of getting 4th aren't dead, and now you are completley ruling Arsenal out of the title race.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

How did Arsenal and their superstars get on in the 'Champions' League?

[Neil D]

Was it you who said that our chances of getting 4th aren't dead, and now you are completley ruling Arsenal out of the title race.

Our best players are fit.

Arsenal's aren't.

Obvious difference.

[LFC when it suits]

Our best players are fit.

Arsenal's aren't.

Obvious difference.

Even without there best players fit, they should have enough to win their last 5 matches.

[Neil D]

Even without there best players fit, they should have enough to win their last 5 matches.

Win all three of away at Spurs, at home to City and away at Blackburn withyout Fabregas, Van P, Arshavin, Gallas etc...? No chance mate. And they can't drop any points to win the title.

[LFC when it suits]

Win all three of away at Spurs, at home to City and away at Blackburn withyout Fabregas, Van P, Arshavin, Gallas etc...? No chance mate. And they can't drop any points to win the title.

But surely if you think we are still gonna get 4th place, you are expecting  Arsenal to be one of the teams to take points from Spurs and City. City especially. If you thinkl Arsena have no chance of taking points from City, it's tough to see who actually does have a chance of taking 8 points from City with 6 games to go.

[Chakan]

This is the kinda shit I have to deal with from arsenal supporters I mean seriously wtf!!

About Messi -  all from the same guy

It does make it easier when you are getting assists from the opposing defenders (Sly) and have full protection from the ref.

Pft. Barcelona = One Man Team.

Still a one man team. Besides Messi I cant think of anyone else that tested Almunia. Take Messi out of Barcelona and they'll look quite average. Xavi had a standard game. Abidal couldnt contain Walcott, most of the time he just kicked the ball out. Bojan, I wouldnt even know if he was in the game. Every single play goes through Messi, they have just been fortunate that he remains injury free.

Take the number of goals Messi scores and his assists and thats half of the goals Barca have scored in La Liga = One.Man.Team

Messi has a huge influence on the players around him, he creates space, attracts defenders, builds play, without him they have no sting.

Its really not rocket science guys.

Yes but HOW MUCH does Barca rely on Messi. Would the result last night still be the same if Messi was out injured? The team centers around Messi a helluva lot and they are benefiting from it, but if the dood gets a long term injury, they are in deep kak coz Henry and Bojan certainly aint gonna provide the goals and Zlatan, before Arsenal he had only scored 2 goals in the Champions League.

I mean seriously...

[Ultimate Bromance]

haha Abidal couldn't contain Walcott? Apart from almost blowing a certain goal, like the clueless idiot he is, I don't recall him tearing it up. In fact I thought he'd been subbed at HT.

[Chakan]

haha Abidal couldn't contain Walcott? Apart from almost blowing a certain goal, like the clueless idiot he is, I don't recall him tearing it up. In fact I thought he'd been subbed at HT.

I don't even bother anymore.... he gave me a link to 17yr old pundit who like to write and watch tv as a source of his views that Barca are a 1 man team

[Neil D]

But surely if you think we are still gonna get 4th place, you are expecting  Arsenal to be one of the teams to take points from Spurs and City. City especially. If you thinkl Arsena have no chance of taking points from City, it's tough to see who actually does have a chance of taking 8 points from City with 6 games to go.

I think you're getting confused and missing my point. I didn't say that I don't expect them not to take points off Spurs or City - my point and the key here is that I don't expect them to beat and take all three points off all three of City, Spurs AND Blackburn, which is what they need to do if they are to win the title. Without their world class attackers they will not win all those games. That's why they have no chance of winning the title in my view.

I expect City to drop points possibly at Arsenal, against United, against Villa and Spurs.

[afcgooner]

We don't deserve to win anything because we don't do what is required and that is closing games out and doing the basics which will go a long way to deciding which prizes go where. I just want my club back, a club which is willing to battle, even if the skill is missing. A club which isn't going to just gift teams points and actually stand up and be counted.

Xavi thanking us is just embarrassing. Thats not the club i love and for that, we deserve fuck all. Wenger needs to add one or two more outfield experianced players at this level and a new GK.

Fabregas is a top player but he is only 22 and yeah, he has played a lot of football for a 22 year old but nothing can replace experience age wise. I wish we had Petit, Parlour, Vieira, Edu, Gilberto. Proper men and footballers. We have all the technique to hammer teams in the PL but when it comes down to it, we don't have the men to win the prizes.

[Livid]

We don't deserve to win anything because we don't do what is required and that is closing games out and doing the basics which will go a long way to deciding which prizes go where. I just want my club back, a club which is willing to battle, even if the skill is missing. A club which isn't going to just gift teams points and actually stand up and be counted.

Xavi thanking us is just embarrassing. Thats not the club i love and for that, we deserve fuck all. Wenger needs to add one or two more outfield experianced players at this level and a new GK.

Fabregas is a top player but he is only 22 and yeah, he has played a lot of football for a 22 year old but nothing can replace experience age wise. I wish we had Petit, Parlour, Vieira, Edu, Gilberto. Proper men and footballers. We have all the technique to hammer teams in the PL but when it comes down to it, we don't have the men to win the prizes.

Get a fucking grip.

[afcgooner]

Get a fucking grip.

My opinion. Don't like it, don't read it mate.

[hoonin]

I just want my club back, a club which is willing to battle, even if the skill is missing. A club which isn't going to just gift teams points and actually stand up and be counted.

Intriguing point that mate. What would need to happen for you to feel Arsenal were back to where you wanted? Is it a personnel thing? The managers approach? Or just a lack of something else?

[the_prodigal_s0n]

We don't deserve to win anything because we don't do what is required and that is closing games out and doing the basics which will go a long way to deciding which prizes go where. I just want my club back, a club which is willing to battle, even if the skill is missing. A club which isn't going to just gift teams points and actually stand up and be counted.

Xavi thanking us is just embarrassing. Thats not the club i love and for that, we deserve fuck all. Wenger needs to add one or two more outfield experianced players at this level and a new GK.

Fabregas is a top player but he is only 22 and yeah, he has played a lot of football for a 22 year old but nothing can replace experience age wise. I wish we had Petit, Parlour, Vieira, Edu, Gilberto. Proper men and footballers. We have all the technique to hammer teams in the PL but when it comes down to it, we don't have the men to win the prizes.

Maybe if you stop calling for the signing of a shit German centre back that Jose Mourinho liked to play up front your team would respond to you better.

[afcgooner]

Intriguing point that mate. What would need to happen for you to feel Arsenal were back to where you wanted? Is it a personnel thing? The managers approach? Or just a lack of something else?

Just what i expect from Arsenal players. Work rate, disire, closing the opposition down, getting tough (but fair ) and basically having a bit of fight. We go down like sluts. Utd stuffing us at home is just not good enough and laying down to a team which isn't that great technically and just get in and about them.

I see Darren Fletcher and i don't see a great player but i see a guy working his bollocks off and playing with his heart. That can go a long way in football, i look at my team and i don't see that. Song i think will be a top player one day but he is too similar mental wise to Denilson. No one in our squad who will get about the opposition and get tough. Its all too nice.

[Livid]

My opinion. Don't like it, don't read it mate.

For a start, it's difficult to like or dislike it without reading it first.

Secondly, getting knocked out of the CL by Barca isn't the end of the fucking world.
Barcelona aside, nobody is happy with their team at the moment. Certainly not any of the 'Big Four' in England.
You sound like you're ready to autodefenestrate.

As for the league, Wenger might not have a perfect approach but you're still up there with a shot at the title.
Where's the drama?

[slickman]

For a start, it's difficult to like or dislike it without reading it first.

Secondly, getting knocked out of the CL by Barca isn't the end of the fucking world.
Barcelona aside, nobody is happy with their team at the moment. Certainly not any of the 'Big Four' in England.
You sound like you're ready to autodefenestrate.

As for the league, Wenger might not have a perfect approach but you're still up there with a shot at the title.
Where's the drama?

Easy for you to say you've been spoilt with trophies galore!!! 

[afcgooner]

For a start, it's difficult to like or dislike it without reading it first.

Secondly, getting knocked out of the CL by Barca isn't the end of the fucking world.
Barcelona aside, nobody is happy with their team at the moment. Certainly not any of the 'Big Four' in England.
You sound like you're ready to autodefenestrate.

As for the league, Wenger might not have a perfect approach but you're still up there with a shot at the title.
Where's the drama?

I want my team to win trophies but its not all about that for me. I support my club and always will. There can be no excuses. We sacrifice too many fundemental things in the game for style.

[Livid]

I want my team to win trophies but its not all about that for me. I support my club and always will. There can be no excuses. We sacrifice too many fundemental things in the game for style.

Like what? Not being funny, but even if you'd have parked the bus after Bendtner's goal last night Barca would have gone through. They are that good and your defence wasn't up to the task.

In the league, well I guess the games against United and Chelsea recently come to mind. But we got beat by title rivals regularly last season and still won the league. If United and Chelsea slip up and you finish Champions, you'll feel a tit for writing that post.

Easy for you to say you've been spoilt with trophies galore!!! 

Maybe, but what would you give to swap league positions with Arsenal right now?
I don't particularly like Wenger, but I think his achievements deserve plenty of respect.

[RigBon1892]

Maybe if you stop calling for the signing of a shit German centre back that Jose Mourinho liked to play up front your team would respond to you better.

[Lent§]

We don't deserve to win anything because we don't do what is required and that is closing games out and doing the basics which will go a long way to deciding which prizes go where. I just want my club back, a club which is willing to battle, even if the skill is missing. A club which isn't going to just gift teams points and actually stand up and be counted.

Xavi thanking us is just embarrassing. Thats not the club i love and for that, we deserve fuck all. Wenger needs to add one or two more outfield experianced players at this level and a new GK.

Fabregas is a top player but he is only 22 and yeah, he has played a lot of football for a 22 year old but nothing can replace experience age wise. I wish we had Petit, Parlour, Vieira, Edu, Gilberto. Proper men and footballers. We have all the technique to hammer teams in the PL but when it comes down to it, we don't have the men to win the prizes.

Jesus fucking Christ. You want Ray Parlour back, or Edu? Come off it lad. If you signed a proper striker (that is fit, which if RVP was ever fit he'd be a proper striker) and a top keeper you'd be miles better off than you already are which isn't exactly fucking bad.
You got torn apart last night for sure, and i was a little disappointed (probably the wrong word as i don't care, but expected better) that in the 2nd half when Barca relaxed Arsenal did nothing. Barring Clichy last night, Arsenal's players all looked disinterested in the 2nd half.

[afcgooner]

Jesus fucking Christ. You want Ray Parlour back, or Edu? Come off it lad. If you signed a proper striker (that is fit, which if RVP was ever fit he'd be a proper striker) and a top keeper you'd be miles better off than you already are which isn't exactly fucking bad.
You got torn apart last night for sure, and i was a little disappointed (probably the wrong word as i don't care, but expected better) that in the 2nd half when Barca relaxed Arsenal did nothing. Barring Clichy last night, Arsenal's players all looked disinterested in the 2nd half.

Ray Parlour was a fine Arsenal player who worked hard and put the body on the line. Im basically saying we lack some heart in the side. Some players who will just close down the opposition and tackle the opposition.

Saying we need a striker is all well and good but strikers don't close down those spaces which attackers run into or those midfield battles which we lose due to physicality.

[the_prodigal_s0n]

We don't deserve to win anything because we don't do what is required and that is closing games out and doing the basics which will go a long way to deciding which prizes go where. I just want my club back, a club which is willing to battle, even if the skill is missing. A club which isn't going to just gift teams points and actually stand up and be counted.

Xavi thanking us is just embarrassing. Thats not the club i love and for that, we deserve fuck all. Wenger needs to add one or two more outfield experianced players at this level and a new GK.

Fabregas is a top player but he is only 22 and yeah, he has played a lot of football for a 22 year old but nothing can replace experience age wise. I wish we had Petit, Parlour, Vieira, Edu, Gilberto. Proper men and footballers. We have all the technique to hammer teams in the PL but when it comes down to it, we don't have the men to win the prizes.

You seem to be getting slated for that comment, but whilst I don't watch you that much I kind of agree with some of the sentiment. I don't even think you need a change in players, just a change in approach. Barcelona didn't have that towards the end of Rijkaard's reign. Then a new man came in, they kept much of the same team and still became one of the best teams ever. I'm not saying you're capable of that, but you're certainly capable of much more. All it took was Guardiola to get the players to learn what to do when they didn't have the ball.

Jonathan Wilson called you're pressing dismal after the first leg, and I'd agree. You have a lot of talent, but Wenger doesn't send the side out to work hard enough without the ball. You'll only become a great side once you learn that. You could learn a lot from the two matches against Barcelona this week. If Wenger's words are anything to go by, you might.

[Lent§]

Ray Parlour was a fine Arsenal player who worked hard and put the body on the line. Im basically saying we lack some heart in the side. Some players who will just close down the opposition and tackle the opposition.

Saying we need a striker is all well and good but strikers don't close down those spaces which attackers run into or those midfield battles which we lose due to physicality.

So, when you got the ball in defence last night, the first two or three players hounding your man were ALWAYS Barca's front 3, then their midfield, etc. I think seeing Barca harrass your side last night has given you this opinion but one bad game doesn't make you shite. You defo need a keeper, and David Villa

[slickman]

Maybe, but what would you give to swap league positions with Arsenal right now?
I don't particularly like Wenger, but I think his achievements deserve plenty of respect.

I dont expect them to win the champions league or league every season, only utd and chelsea have those kind of expectations and rightfully so as they spend the cash, but ourselves and arsenal apart from challenging i dont expect either of us to win any two of the major honours. Its no suprise they havent won a trophy for 4 or 5 years they've hardly splashed the cash and were not any better off been a while since we won something ourselves, to be honest think they've done amazing to stay in the title race with van persie out for so long and bendtnar upfront nearly the whole season!!

Agreed posted earlier saying they have done brillaint to stay in the title race, but its understandable arsenal fans are frustrated if they miss out on the title 4 or 5 years without silverware they need investment in ther squad not a major overhaul and i think the money is their, otherwise they will always be the team coming close but never winning the major trophies even barca spend quite a few bit of cash mixed in with the youth academy players.