Author Topic: Arsenal  (Read 5737023 times)

Offline Paul JH

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3720 on: April 6, 2010, 10:00:50 pm »
No doubt we'll be told by the press leading up to the World Cup that Walcott is still learning the game, despite having his arse handed to him along with his teammates by a 22 year old who's not only learnt the game of football better than he ever will, but also improved year on year since he broke into their side.

Unlike Theo who still looks like a mindless greyhound every time he gets the ball.

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3721 on: April 6, 2010, 10:12:22 pm »
Is this really Bendter?

Arsenal striker Nicklas Bendtner:  "If you are going to lose a game, you want to do it by another team playing you off the pitch. We did well, but they were just too strong. Lionel is a phenomenal player and he showed it again tonight."


Personally, if I'm going to lose a game, I want it to be fought tooth and nail to the finish.
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Offline sisterbliss

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3722 on: April 6, 2010, 10:13:42 pm »
And Wenger so humble in defeat maintaining that they gave away cheap goals - classic.
Try to sit on the fence and you're quickly exposed as a fraud, hiding your true feelings but fooling no one.

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3723 on: April 6, 2010, 10:14:18 pm »
And Wenger so humble in defeat maintaining that they gave away cheap goals - classic.

Messi just made them look cheap.
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Offline MagicHat

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3724 on: April 6, 2010, 10:15:30 pm »
And Wenger so humble in defeat maintaining that they gave away cheap goals - classic.

On our part, 4 of the six goals we did concede where cheap on our part, see my earlier post. Take nothing away from Barca though

Offline CHOPPER

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3725 on: April 6, 2010, 10:16:42 pm »
3 points behind, could still happen. Got to beat Spurs though and get this out of our system fast
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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3726 on: April 6, 2010, 10:17:45 pm »
Is this really Bendter?

Arsenal striker Nicklas Bendtner:  "If you are going to lose a game, you want to do it by another team playing you off the pitch. We did well, but they were just too strong. Lionel is a phenomenal player and he showed it again tonight."


Personally, if I'm going to lose a game, I want it to be fought tooth and nail to the finish.
Yes but this is Arsenal, they want to be played off the pitch with ze bootiful football, beauty is more important than results and trophies.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3727 on: April 6, 2010, 10:18:57 pm »
The match against Spurs will be a tough one, what with the number of players Arsenal have out.

Plus Chelsea have no more distractions (apart from one more FA Cup game this weekend). They should win the league from here.

Like us, that Birmingham result was probably the killer.

Offline WelshMike

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3728 on: April 6, 2010, 10:21:05 pm »
To be fair I think Magic's got a point. They did concede cheap goals from their point of view.

Of course Messi was fantastic; everyone's admitted that. But a poor touch / clearance / pass from Silvestre for goal #1 is heavily punished, they were all over the place in conceding both goals last week, the defending for the last goal tonight was really poor, the offside trap attempt for goal #3 was awful, and so on.

The thing is: do Arsenal fans actually expect better next season? Genuine question. From a defence point of view, it seems that it doesn't matter what indviduals are there because Arsene just can't get his defence playing as a unit. They don't seem to know what they're doing, or what they're supposed to be doing. I know I've had the conversation about how poor Almunia is before and it's not an "I told you so" but he really does need replacing.

I think you need a few extra defensive players regardless (at least two, probably three, possibly more) but I'm really interested to know what the Arsenal fans actually expect next season from their defence and from Wenger. Because looking at the tie tonight, it really wasn't very different from the Utd tie last year where Arsenal also crashed out heavily due to defensive errors.

I just don't see it changing against the big teams. In fact they seem to be getting worse and worse as time goes on.
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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3729 on: April 6, 2010, 10:25:08 pm »
Dont buy this "cheap goals" malarky. Arsenal patently failed to manage Messi and failed to stop Barcelona passing the ball around them.

There's no shame in admitting that. Just enjoy that match for what it was - two good footballing teams and one incredible player who was head and shoulders above the rest. Why the need to down play it?

Offline jotirori

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3730 on: April 6, 2010, 10:32:37 pm »
So Fabregas probably will join Barsa next season.I can't conceive Messi and Iniesta playing for any other team apart from Barcelona.Therefore, I just can pray they do not sign up any of these: Villa,Silva,Mata.
I know, is a pathetic way of finding some consolation.

Offline Lent§

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3731 on: April 6, 2010, 10:33:30 pm »
So Fabregas probably will join Barsa next season.I can't conceive Messi and Iniesta playing for any other team apart from Barcelona.Therefore, I just can pray they do not sign up any of these: Villa,Silva,Mata.
I know, is a pathetic way of finding some consolation.
I'd cut my left bollock off for any one of the 6 players you've just mentioned there!
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Offline MagicHat

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3732 on: April 6, 2010, 10:34:00 pm »
Who is downplaying it? I enjoyed the games, well till we were 4-1 down, then I got a bit sad ;) Just don't think we defended very well. Neither did Barca for our goals I'll admit but it is frustrating as an Arsenal fan watching us concede goals again. Note I'm not complaining about Messi dancing around our defenders or what happens when we fail to get that second ball, just the way we did defend when it could be prevented.

WelshMike, If a team puts pressure on Arsenal and pins us back, we defend well usually and I think we were the best at the offside trap last season in England, probably close to it again. It's concentration that our coaches need to work on, at set pieces, when the ball is in their half, to the counter attacks. I do accept that Arsenal are going to concede goals with the way we play but a bit of depth in one or two area's and a new keeper, we would have the players to do a lot better. The question is about the coaching and I don't know if we have the coaching stuff for it. I know a few doubt our keeping coach after Jens pretty much ignored him on issues other then fitness and did his own thing, doesn't fill most us with hope.

The players will improve but pre season should see us working the defensive players, including the midfielders, as a unit. Won't happen I fear and it makes me sad

Offline killer-heels

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3733 on: April 6, 2010, 10:40:55 pm »
I don't think many, or any teams can play the way Barcelona play. They play pretty much their own brand of football which is unique to them and seems to have been forever. This laid back, relaxed passing and moving rhythm is what they are bred to do from an early age and its something unique to them.

What I think other teams can take from them though is their pressing. My god, even in the 80-90th minute once a player gets a ball in their own box, they surround that opposition player with 2 or 3 players. Forget what position the player pressing is in, they just go after it, creating a base to either get the ball back in a dangerous position or get the opposition to hoof it away and get the ball back at their own end.

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3734 on: April 6, 2010, 10:43:34 pm »
I'd cut my left bollock off for any one of the 6 players you've just mentioned there!

Will you cut both if we got two? And what if we got three?

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3735 on: April 6, 2010, 10:47:59 pm »
MH - I dont think you defended badly, more a case of par for the course. Where you struggled was getting the ball in order to attack and relieve pressure. No possession equalled backs against the wall and you'll probably admit yourself that this type of scenario highlights you're a better attacking team than a defending one.

The game needs to be put in perspective - there are few other teams out there that would dominate you over 180 mins as Barcelona did.

Offline exiledintheUSA

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3736 on: April 6, 2010, 10:49:31 pm »
Thankfully Arsenal once again livid up to my estimation and won nothing - again. I wonder if the press will go on about it like they do with Rafa or just hide behind the fact they have a 'young' team, if you think an average of 25 is young.
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Offline Lent§

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3737 on: April 6, 2010, 10:49:44 pm »
Will you cut both if we got two? And what if we got three?
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Offline MagicHat

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3738 on: April 6, 2010, 10:52:12 pm »
Thankfully Arsenal once again livid up to my estimation and won nothing - again. I wonder if the press will go on about it like they do with Rafa or just hide behind the fact they have a 'young' team, if you think an average of 25 is young.

They might if we don't win the league and it became clear the board told the truth and Wenger had lots to spend last summer

MH - I dont think you defended badly, more a case of par for the course. Where you struggled was getting the ball in order to attack and relieve pressure. No possession equalled backs against the wall and you'll probably admit yourself that this type of scenario highlights you're a better attacking team than a defending one.

The game needs to be put in perspective - there are few other teams out there that would dominate you over 180 mins as Barcelona did.

Your probably right, maybe it is just the Chelsea and Man U games where our defense did implode that makes me think so negatively

Offline jotirori

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3739 on: April 6, 2010, 10:52:43 pm »
I don't think many, or any teams can play the way Barcelona play. They play pretty much their own brand of football which is unique to them and seems to have been forever. This laid back, relaxed passing and moving rhythm is what they are bred to do from an early age and its something unique to them.
Yes, they have been playing their own brand for some years.Obvioulsy now they look sexier since they  reap the rewards of things well done, (not mention they have the best generation of 'la masia' players ever produced).
What is interesting for the rest, is that it seems nobody has found yet a clear and  successful way of beating their elaborate football (maybe Chelsea were not far from...I am not sure), and it makes them look ever greater.It is a bit of the same for Spanish NT.
By the way, it is not only about the way they play football.The problem is that almost everybody is in love and would like to play that football-many people will never recognize it, obvioulsy-, which makes a slightly difference.
« Last Edit: April 6, 2010, 11:00:19 pm by jotirori »

Offline Livid

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3740 on: April 6, 2010, 10:53:36 pm »
Thankfully Arsenal once again livid up to my estimation and won nothing - again. I wonder if the press will go on about it like they do with Rafa or just hide behind the fact they have a 'young' team, if you think an average of 25 is young.

You always seem so angry. Lighten up a bit, you just saw what will probably be remembered as one of the greatest club sides in history give a superlative performance, there's few if any teams in the world who could have avoided a gubbing against Barca tonight.
Plus, Arsenal are still in the title race.
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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3741 on: April 6, 2010, 10:54:55 pm »
Your probably right, maybe it is just the Chelsea and Man U games where our defense did implode that makes me think so negatively

Errr, no. They're the other 2 teams that would dominate you for 180 mins ;D

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3742 on: April 6, 2010, 11:03:49 pm »
Thankfully Arsenal once again livid up to my estimation and won nothing - again. I wonder if the press will go on about it like they do with Rafa or just hide behind the fact they have a 'young' team, if you think an average of 25 is young.

Maybe , but then they're hit with injuries as bad as anything we've seen this season, we're playing for a place in the Europa league and are outsiders to qualify for the champions league.  The press should be looking at our owners, and going on about them, but Rafa is an easier target.
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Offline jotirori

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3743 on: April 6, 2010, 11:07:37 pm »
I'd cut my left bollock off for any one of the 6 players you've just mentioned there!
Yeah, I know how you feel :) but if you could choose only one (No messi) to play along with you every friday in the park?

Offline RigBon1892

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3744 on: April 7, 2010, 01:59:37 am »
Like 2 years ago, that Birmingham result was probably the killer.

Just made a small change
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Offline Red_Isle_Chap

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3745 on: April 7, 2010, 04:24:03 am »
I do wish people would stop with this "and they've won nothing again this year" their only 3 points off the top and could still win the league. I don't want them to, i'd much rather it be chelsea, but that's by the by. They still can win the league, credit where it's due. Yes they got massacred tonight, but that's them in Europe.
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Offline slickman

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3746 on: April 7, 2010, 04:46:33 am »
I dont expect them to win the champions league or league every season, only utd and chelsea have those kind of expectations and rightfully so as they spend the cash, but ourselves and arsenal apart from challenging i dont expect either of us to win any two of the major honours. Its no suprise they havent won a trophy for 4 or 5 years they've hardly splashed the cash and were not any better off been a while since we won something ourselves, to be honest think they've done amazing to stay in the title race with van persie out for so long and bendtnar upfront nearly the whole season!!

Offline whtwht

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3747 on: April 7, 2010, 08:05:46 am »
I dont expect them to win the champions league or league every season, only utd and chelsea have those kind of expectations and rightfully so as they spend the cash, but ourselves and arsenal apart from challenging i dont expect either of us to win any two of the major honours. Its no suprise they havent won a trophy for 4 or 5 years they've hardly splashed the cash and were not any better off been a while since we won something ourselves, to be honest think they've done amazing to stay in the title race with van persie out for so long and bendtnar upfront nearly the whole season!!
Agreed
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Offline MagicHat

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3748 on: April 7, 2010, 09:14:58 am »
Expectations too high? Perhaps. It is only natural, we were one of the most successful teams in England for a period and it always takes awhile for expectations to align with reality. When you have a manager with the track-record of Wenger, the recent history of the club at the time and so on, you do expect certain standards.

The stadium move did knock us off course for awhile, whatever the board and Wenger say, we lost the 49'ers and had to replace them on a limited budget. We rode our luck a little, had some wonderful nights during that period but in the long term, we are in a better position then many of our rivals may end up being. Maybe if the board had said early on "we were wrong, the move has affected us so Wenger has a limited budget but we believe it will prove to be the right move", things would have been easier.

Two title challenges, a couple of cup finals and semi finals isn't bad but we want to win things and now the finances are such, Wenger can make enquires about David Villa (even if I doubt we could afford him), we are starting to be in a position where we can spend fairly big. If we fail to win the title, I will be sad but after a week or so, when my head has cleared, this season has been fairly good. We have improved a lot, we have been consistent against the "lesser" teams, we have shown spirit, attacking quality and squad depth. We have also lost every big game we have played, we are at a certain level but can we push on under Wenger? I believe we can do better under the right management in seasons to come, Wenger deserves a chance to show he can take us to a higher level again, one where Barca, Man U and Chelsea don't hammer us each time


Offline sidneyroughdiamond

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3749 on: April 7, 2010, 09:40:25 am »
Expectations too high? Perhaps. It is only natural, we were one of the most successful teams in England for a period and it always takes awhile for expectations to align with reality. When you have a manager with the track-record of Wenger, the recent history of the club at the time and so on, you do expect certain standards.

The stadium move did knock us off course for awhile, whatever the board and Wenger say, we lost the 49'ers and had to replace them on a limited budget. We rode our luck a little, had some wonderful nights during that period but in the long term, we are in a better position then many of our rivals may end up being. Maybe if the board had said early on "we were wrong, the move has affected us so Wenger has a limited budget but we believe it will prove to be the right move", things would have been easier.

Two title challenges, a couple of cup finals and semi finals isn't bad but we want to win things and now the finances are such, Wenger can make enquires about David Villa (even if I doubt we could afford him), we are starting to be in a position where we can spend fairly big. If we fail to win the title, I will be sad but after a week or so, when my head has cleared, this season has been fairly good. We have improved a lot, we have been consistent against the "lesser" teams, we have shown spirit, attacking quality and squad depth. We have also lost every big game we have played, we are at a certain level but can we push on under Wenger? I believe we can do better under the right management in seasons to come, Wenger deserves a chance to show he can take us to a higher level again, one where Barca, Man U and Chelsea don't hammer us each time



All is true but did you see Cesc Fabregas last night in the directors box in the Nou Camp .... he looked mighty comfortable there, loose him and it will set you back for a potential title challenge next year.
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Offline kingkenny79

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3750 on: April 7, 2010, 10:32:16 am »
I don't get it when TM always mentions "Young Arsenal",,

What is definition of "young" for the Mr Monkey?

On the pitch last night,,

the oldest players was Almunia at 33
&
the youngest player was Bojan at 20

of cos, if you added up the age & divide by 11, Arsenal got slightly younger squad,,, but its still subjective,,,Barcelona also got relatively young players like Messi, Bojan, Buesquet,Pedro,,,

So what is all about the over hype things of the Arsenal 'young' squad?

valdes = 28
alves = 27
marques = 31
Milito = 30
Abidal = 31
Keita = 30
Busquet = 22
Pedro = 23
Xavi = 30
messi = 23
bojan = 20


Almunia = 33
Sagna = 27
Vermaelen = 25
Silvestre= 33
Clichy = 25
Denilson = 22
Diaby = 24
Walcott = 21
Nasri = 23
Rosicky = 30
Bendtner = 22

« Last Edit: April 7, 2010, 10:35:46 am by kingkenny79 »
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Offline RigBon1892

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3751 on: April 7, 2010, 10:34:08 am »
I don't get it when TM always mentions "Young Arsenal",,

What is definition of "young" for the Mr Monkey?

On the pitch last night,,

the oldest players was Almunia at 33
&
the youngest player was Bojan at 20

of cos, if you added up the age & divide by 11, Arsenal got slightly younger squad,,, but its still subjective,,,Barcelona also got relatively young players like Messi, Bojan, Buesquet,Pedro,,,

So what is all about the over hype things of the Arsenal 'young' squad?


It's like "Young Ben Foster, England's future Saviour", I mean at 27, you'd think he might need to hurry up to become England's Saviour.
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Offline Daranoza

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3752 on: April 7, 2010, 10:38:53 am »
Bojan is actually only 19. He’s not 20 until August. Messi is 22, Busquets is 21/22, Pedro is 22. It’s not like they are pensioners themselves.
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Offline kingkenny79

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3753 on: April 7, 2010, 10:39:55 am »
Bojan is actually only 19. He’s not 20 until August. Messi is 22, Busquets is 21/22, Pedro is 22. It’s not like they are pensioners themselves.

Yeah, i know,but i just base their age on the year they were born,to make it easier comparision
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Offline Chivasino

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3754 on: April 7, 2010, 10:42:24 am »
I think someone calulated Barca's average age to be one year older than that of the young Arsenal team.

Offline kingkenny79

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3755 on: April 7, 2010, 10:46:07 am »
I think someone calulated Barca's average age to be one year older than that of the young Arsenal team.

if you added up & divide by 11,
Barca will be 1 year older from Arsenal, but what is that mean?

It means,from my POV,

Barca of last year, is the same age of Arsenal this year..




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Offline Daranoza

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3756 on: April 7, 2010, 10:48:49 am »
It basically just means that if we are calling Arsenal 'kids' then surely the same should apply to a team only marginally older than them, on average? In that case, when is the 'kids' excuse going to run itself out?
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Offline lionel_messias

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3757 on: April 7, 2010, 10:49:17 am »
When Arsenal have paid off their debt (I think they reduced it by over £100 million in the last 18 months) they will kick some serious arse in the transfer market.

They have the best model for handling debt reduction and stadium building in the Premier League. We probably have 2 or 3 years to sort ourselves out otherwise they will outshine us BIGTIME, as well as other outfits like City and Chelsea who have no such financial worries.

...people are missing the big picture here.
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Offline kingkenny79

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3758 on: April 7, 2010, 10:50:41 am »
It basically just means that if we are calling Arsenal 'kids' then surely the same should apply to a team only marginally older than them, on average? In that case, when is the 'kids' excuse going to run itself out?

:) technically until they reach puberty,,.
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Offline the_prodigal_s0n

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Re: I like the fact you underestimate Arsenal this season!!
« Reply #3759 on: April 7, 2010, 10:53:04 am »
The mean of Barca is only one year more than Arsenal. However, the Barcelona's mode is 30, Arsenal's is 22 and Barca's median is 28, whereas Arsenal's is 24. That's going by the starting 11 last night. There looks to be more variance in Barca's age though. Not going to work that out as it's a bit sad. The mean is by far the most accurate way of judging things though.