Topic: Man Utd Away - Round Table

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

OK let's get the obvious shit out of the way first...

We looked bright but with no cutting edge early one but then conceded and capitulated for the rest of the first half.

A very attacking reshuffle from Rodgers and HT and we were much better from that point on, not quite good enough to get anything from the game but much better nontheless.

So lets start with one of the bright points, it was our first look at the Sturridge / Suarez partnership what did we think?

[Hinesy]

It was a meh game for me. I've given up caring about that shithole and their small fans and their petty manager with his wank 'mind games'. His disrespect for us just embarasses himself not anyone else.
The game itself: the first goal was well taken and out of nowhere really, the 2nd, well we gave away too many silly free kicks.

But the 2nd half was where I'll take meagre crumbs of encouragement: Taking Lucas off and changing the system was a bold thing to do and it almost paid off, a draw was a fair result for that game (if not both fixtures). I thought he would've taken Downing off, and put Sturridge on, but no, he shifted the system and we looked sharper and better for it. The danger of a 4-3-3 is that Suarez is left alone and isolated too often and with him playing almost as a 2nd striker meant for a start they were on the back foot more often and we attacked and looked more dangerous than we had in the first half. Sturridge took his goal well, easy to say "It's a tap-in", but he did and didn't fuck up that much.

One area of frustration was the taking of the ball up to the right hand half way line then passing it all the way back again. Downing was making a lot more runs and good ones at that then we took advantage of and even if we pass forward and don't always make the pass, the pressure if off for a moment.

their 2nd goal pissed me off, ours was a hope that we could go on and at least score again, but we still don't look like we have a concerted clear attacking strategy and I worry all to often the intention is to get the ball to Luis and he'll sort it.

Meh.

[Jake]

Studga did really well when he came on, took his finish well and was a general threat.

At the back we were ok, Glen was a bit suspect with the defending, Wisdom was strong and we made a few good blocks. Shambles defending for the goals but if you switch off once against Van Persie then you've 'ad it.

In the middle I thought we atrocious, Allen was a lost little boy. He can coordinate a game but in the big ones he seems a bit lightweight, Lucas was aright, but very hasty, and Gerrard had a game of two halves. Once Hendo came on he showed a bit of composure.

Up front, Suarez wasn't at his shining best, very isolated in the first half. but when Studga came on he seemed sharper and managed to play pretty well. Sterling was quiet, Downing... I'm not saying a word or I'll end up banned!

Nice to see Borini come on. He was 'aright'.

Travelling Kop, fantastic, travelling from Hong Kong Man U fans... less said the better.

[BreakfastPercy]

It's gotten to the point where I'm no longer sure what our midfield three is meant to do. Given that Rodgers had to tweak it at Swansea, is it time we did the same? We just do not have any goals from the middle any more, and it seems like it will continue to handicap us. Though to be fair, even with a formation tweak I don't think the personnel give us goals. Gonna have to be Suarez playing deeper methinks.

I think Allen is getting too much grief. This 'blue eyed boy' schtick is a fallacy not least because Henderson gained his so-called 'form' from Allen being taken out of the team in the first place, and Allen was a mainstay early in the season for obvious reasons. A bad game but he was one of a few in the first half.

Nice to have a few forwards knocking about though isn't it? There was enough in that second half (plus my reassurances about them being at the top of the table) to maintain my will to live. On we trundle!

[Cpt_Reina]

The result was entirely expected. They're not top of the league by accident and we're not 8th by mistake. They're a better side than us right now.

They're not as far away as we made them look in that first half though. It was a horror show really. I dont know what you put it down to, ill preparation springs to mind, but we keep making the same sort of mistakes against teams. If we dont get an early goal then you can bet that our performance will steadily go downhill.

So often the players out on the pitch dont appear to know what it is they're meant to be doing. The midfield 3 especially. There's so little cohesion between them that it must come from the coaching. Allen isnt a poor player, he can be effective. Same with Gerrard. But all too often (last few games against opposition which really did 'come not to play' aside) they look all at sea as to what it is they're actually meant to be doing.

Perhaps that's why Henderson's looked good in there. The lack of clarity over the division of labour playing in to his harum scarum approach to the game.

It needs addressing though.

As does the defence. Im loath to get in to that though. It's been brewing for a while but the defence looks porous to me. Namely Skrtel and Agger. Johnson's performing very well this season, and Wisdom is but a pup.

The two CBs are performing well below the level they showed last season though. Id ask why it is, because I genuinely dont have a clue. Is it the coaching? The system? The knock on effect from the midfield? All of the above?

Whatever it is they look soft.

That was the first half.

The second was much better. Rodgers switched it up and it worked. I'd have liked him to have maybe implemented such tactical switches before the game. I think he bottled it somewhat by reverting to type. But he did change it, and it did work.

Sturridge stretched the game and allowed the easily negated Suarez some room to manoeuvre. His goal got me almost as excited as the Suarez magic against Newcastle. FINALLY we have someone following in shots. My word was it a beautiful sight to see him tap the ball in from 6 yards.

Said upon his signing that he's score 10 goals a season from doing that following Suarez work alone, let alone if Gerrard gets in on the act to supply the indirect assists also.

Borini coming back should also help us score those unremarkable goals. It was lovely to see 3 strikers on the pitch. Albeit two of them looking rusty. Sturridge should have at least tested De Gea with that chance he blazed over the bar. But it'll come.

All in all there wasnt much to take away from the game. Rodgers made some mistakes, he also made some very correct decisions. Some players under performed, some look like stepping their game up.

This has largely been the recipe our games have followed for the entire season. And will probably be the case for the remainder. No point getting too het up about it for that very reason.

This is what a building year looks like I guess.

[royhendo]

OK let's get the obvious shit out of the way first...

We looked bright but with no cutting edge early one but then conceded and capitulated for the rest of the first half.

A very attacking reshuffle from Rodgers and HT and we were much better from that point on, not quite good enough to get anything from the game but much better nontheless.

So lets start with one of the bright points, it was our first look at the Sturridge / Suarez partnership what did we think?

Sticking to your questions mate - there's a tendency for us not to do that enough... *cough*

Sturridge and Suarez looked a tantalising prospect, I have to say. The moment Suarez received it and pinged a cross-field ball that almost put Sturridge in behind the centre halves was very nice indeed, but it was by no means isolated. Sturridge in his own right carries a real threat, doesn't he? Borini added something when he came on too - the collective work rate from the three of them bodes well I think, because we'll stand a greater chance of forcing broken play. Anyway, it was encouraging. Nice to see him track Wellbeck on his full-length-of-the-field dribble too, and to laugh when he fell on his arse (albeit you're thinking 'get back up the park' by that stage).

His goal got me almost as excited as the Suarez magic against Newcastle. FINALLY we have someone following in shots. My word was it a beautiful sight to see him tap the ball in from 6 yards.

Said upon his signing that he's score 10 goals a season from doing that following Suarez work alone, let alone if Gerrard gets in on the act to supply the indirect assists also.

Borini coming back should also help us score those unremarkable goals. It was lovely to see 3 strikers on the pitch. Albeit two of them looking rusty. Sturridge should have at least tested De Gea with that chance he blazed over the bar. But it'll come.

Completely agree. And it means we can properly defend from the front, because all three are aggressive in the press, aren't they?

That's what puzzles me about his selection at times though. We look a far better side with that energy - with Henderson paired with Allen, and legs ahead of those two. And so it proved today, and before that. But anyway, I digress.

Pepe's a brave boy.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Picking up again on the Sturridge / Suarez partnership. That crossfield ball and Sturridge's effortless take at pace was a delicious moment Roy.

I was expecting the Pace from DS but I was pleasantly surprised with how well he retained possession and linked with those around him, particularly at this early stage.

The key thing was his goal. I think that's about the first time we've been first to a rebound like that since Yossi left. Luis's work on his own rebounds excepted of course.

[Cpt_Reina]

Completely agree. And it means we can properly defend from the front, because all three are aggressive in the press, aren't they?

That's what puzzles me about his selection at times though. We look a far better side with that energy - with Henderson paired with Allen, and legs ahead of those two. And so it proved today, and before that. But anyway, I digress.

Pepe's a brave boy.

Will be interesting, over the coming weeks and months, to see whether Rodgers settles on a preferred front line. And if he does, who will feature in it.

He's not had the opportunity so far through both the lack of options, and the injury to one of the few he had. It can only be a good thing for him to have to option to experiment, going forward.

Sterling is a top rank talent, but he's a kid. Noticeably so at times, as he was today. It'll do him good to be taken out of the team in this second half of the season, impact sub seems like a colour that will suit him well. Ditto Suso.

Downing has done better in recent weeks, and provides a unremarkable and somewhat narrow threat. But he's not to be relied upon.

Borini and Sturridge will hopefully allow for a few to fall in to their natural place within the squad as a whole. Sterling isnt a player who should be starting every league game. And Downing cant be counted on. Two extra bodies should help mitigate those factors.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

I'd agree with most of that Capt. 

I would say that the main thing Downing has that Suso and Sterling still lack is a goal threat (stop sniggering at the back, I know I know).  For all his laughably poor return so far he does have a shot on him and he does look dangerous when cutting inside to use it.  I think that is what has really got him his place back in the side.

Hopefully Sturridge and Borini can offer a more consistent goal threat and something a little extra besides.

[Mr Dilkington]

Disappointing result, and a poor first half performance, but still plenty of positives to take away I thought. Old Trafford isn't a good ground for us. Bar that amazing 4-1 win, Rafa never fared well there either. 1 win and 4 losses. We've won once in 10 games. Plus, y'know... they're top of the League.

Not trying to excuse the mistakes we made today like, because we did. Allen wasn't great, Lucas wasn't great, Suarez was isolated and Sturridge should have started.

Happy for Pepe. He's taken his share of flak, but he really stood up and took the mantle. Took crosses well and made a couple of crucial saves. Feared the worst when he got clattered from Kagawa.

Small word for Wisdom - he was courageous, intelligent, and wise beyond his years - I think long term he's a ball playing centre back, but by god can the lad play full back. Can't remember which half, but the ball was coming down from a fair height and he was surrounded by United players. Rather than go all fuzzy brained, he stuck that big barrel chest out, brought it down and played it to his teammate. Kid is doing brilliant.

Skrtel and Agger. Hmmm... I think they're doing a lot more good than bad, but I do wish they would put their stamp (literally!) on things a bit more. I think they sometimes overlook the bare essentials of what it is to be a centre back. Sometimes you just gotta play the penalty box and head things away. Still, before today we kept a few clean sheets in recent weeks so It's probably me just being a picky bugger!

Thought Gerrard and Allen had similar games. Gerrard wasn't quite as poor as Allen first half and he was better second, but both contributed so much more second half. I know Allen made quite a few bad passes, but he never hid once. He always wants to build things - that's probably why it was Lucas that got hooked. Plus, he's 22 for crying out loud! Thought Gerrard was imperious second half.

Sterling and Downing had poor games. Sterling dwelt on the ball too often, and Downing didn't offer a good enough outlet. Did well going back the way mind.

Now to your question!

As promising a start to the Suarez/Sturridge partnership as you're as likely to get really, wasn't it? Suarez does a great job playing right up against the centre backs when you can get the support up to him, but in games like today he's wasted. He doesn't have enough pace to do the job Torres used to do for us up there. Someone who does though... Daniel Sturridge. Not only is he quick, his touch is fantastic. There was lots of moments in that game when he brought down a awkward looking ball with apparent ease. This is not just a poacher we've bought. His goal shows he can do that job, but showed much more. He did everything you want in a forward. He's definitely a bit greedy at times, but you know what, I don't care. We need some of that.

So much to look forward to from now until the end of the season.

[royhendo]

Small word for Wisdom - he was courageous, intelligent, and wise beyond his years - I think long term he's a ball playing centre back, but by god can the lad play full back. Can't remember which half, but the ball was coming down from a fair height and he was surrounded by United players. Rather than go all fuzzy brained, he stuck that big barrel chest out, brought it down and played it to his teammate. Kid is doing brilliant.

Man, when he galloped up into their box in the 2nd half, a tiny part of you was thinking 'man, can he do this?'. Shame that never flew in - he'd have been a hero already.

[Gnurglan]

I see Wisdom is getting praise and he deserves it. He's solid and we don't even notice we have a young RB in his first season. Very impressive and I think he's flown below the radar, which is good. People don't seem to notice him and there's no talk about him. Which is good. Possibly the best verdict we could give him at this stage. And he's getting a very good introduction. In and out of the team. Little pressure. And every time, he responds well.

Suarez-Sturridge? Like it! I don't know if Sturridge is the new Torres, but he definitely is a big improvement to our attack. Finally Suarez has someone beside him who can score goals. Someone who will make the runs needed. Sterling and Borini have shown it and even Downing has, but with Sturridge I think we'll have a player who does it all the time, not just now and then. I also like the idea of having Suarez in a free role behind Sturridge. Means he doesn't have to track back like a winger and he doesn't have to be the point of reference up top. He can move to the areas he likes. If it was a lazy player, it could be an issue, but Suarez gets himself involved everywhere.

However, that sort of game requires us to change our system. Can't really play 4-3-3. Too much ground to cover for the flank men. We'd have to change to a 4-4-2/4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1 and play with two CMs. Which is another thing I won't mind us doing. But such a change could have a big impact on what types of players we (should) have in CM. All of a sudden we'd have half a dozen CMs competing for two spots in the side (and one on the bench). Not 3+1. And they'd most likely have to have their main strengths in the defensive sides of the game.

Will be very interesting to see how Rodgers will set things up from now on.

[Aristotle]

Man, when he galloped up into their box in the 2nd half, a tiny part of you was thinking 'man, can he do this?'. Shame that never flew in - he'd have been a hero already.

It's a weird trend with our players though. Bar Suarez [and Sturridge so +1 in his favour there] we don't drive into the box enough. Henderson, Downing, Sterling, Suso, Kelly, Allen - even Borini have that tendancy when faced with the 40/60 to drive away from goal. It's a bit of a nitpick but I thought he made a mistake there in an otherwise solid game. If he'd just driven in at goal at least he always had the option of passing it backwards to the striker. This mentality of being slightly afraid of going one on one with a defender bearing down on them we back out. Even a strong lad like Wisdom seems afraid of getting stuck in when going for the goal when they have no problems with throwing themselves infront of the shot or the 6'4'', 95kg striker bearing down on them when the tables are turned. It's quite a strange phenomenon in our squad.

[Vulmea]

I was going to post this before I read the thread so this isn't me being contrary as usual, well it is but it's not contrived - for me other than Van Persie's brilliance, Wisdom was at fault for the first goal. Against Sunderland he played similarly - in both games he didn't get a great deal of help from infront but he has a tendency to lose his man for me - Sunderland had three good chances on our right that game just didn't take them. For the goal Wisdom gifted United too much time and space for the cross. Apart from that he was solid and he's a good addition to the squad but a work in progress I think and not yet a guaranteed player for me.

On the striking combo  I thought it showed 'possibilities' - other than the sublime pass from Suarez to Sturridge - one passage of play stood out I thought - Suarez turns deep and runs at United, Sturridge sprints into the centre midfield - he needs the ball in front of him, Suarez plays it narrow, Sturridge has to check his run , get the ball and lay Suarez through, but the ball is too heavy, Suarez tries to take it with the outside of his right foot and it drifts through for  a goal kick  - now either they'll work on that combo in training and Sturridge will naturally check and switch or Suarez will look for the pass in front or because both are instinctive lone strikers it'll never really click and they'll just rely on their individual talent. Reminded me a tad of Collymore Fowler - two crackin players, two players who played successfully together, but two players who despite that are never really thought of as a pair in the Keegan/Toshack, Dalglish/Rush type of way.

On the game I thought the first half was probably as poor as we've been all season. We lacked purpose and belief. I'm probably just seeing what I want to but it strikes me that whenever we look to keep things tight we lose our intensity. Whether thats emerging after halftime with a lead or going into a tough game it seems to be too consistent to be coincidence. As soon as we have some intent and purpose the whole system seems to shift a gear and BR's plan comes to life, maybe its to do with the way the teams shape becomes stretched between the front line and the rest I'm not sure. Maybe its simply down to tempo we were laboured first half.

I thought Gerrards pressing second half was very good and a prod in the eye for those sceptics who say he does not have the legs anymore.

BR would probably prefer to be using Sterling as an impact player but to date has not had the opportunity, when he can I think that will be good for both the team and Sterling as the game is passing the lad by too much.

The second half gave some hope going forward but to still not have beaten a team from the top half of the table is pretty damning stuff.

[The 5th Benitle]

Really excited by the prospect of Suarez, Sturridge and Borini up front. Thought Henderson was desperately unlucky to miss out and would have made a difference in the first half.
 

[Anywhichwayicant]

Was immensely impressed by Wisdom, and was chuffed with Sturridge, other than that, not at all amused.


Defeats never impress me, and I've seen enough of our miraculous, heroic second half improvements, to know that the opposition play quite a big part in that. Either start with a bit of heart and gusto, or don't bother turning up. Sick and tired of our abysmal first half displays.

[S]

Sturridge stretched the game and allowed the easily negated Suarez some room to manoeuvre. His goal got me almost as excited as the Suarez magic against Newcastle. FINALLY we have someone following in shots. My word was it a beautiful sight to see him tap the ball in from 6 yards.

For a brief second I couldn't figure out who scored our goal, simply because it seemed so out of character for us. Like you said, it's been too long since we've had someone who can put away the tap ins, hopefully Sturridge is that player. He should get plenty of chances, since Suarez's forays into the box often lead to rebounds and loose balls.

Defeats never impress me, and I've seen enough of our miraculous, heroic second half improvements, to know that the opposition play quite a big part in that. Either start with a bit of heart and gusto, or don't bother turning up. Sick and tired of our abysmal first half displays.

Indeed. Rodgers may be good at turning games round at half time, but wouldn't it save a lot of trouble if we got the setup right before kick off?

[El Lobo]

Suarez and Sturridge will tear teams to shreds.

There were a couple of moments of real quality from them two, including great cross field ball from Suarez to Sturridge and a little exchange of three or four passes just outside the area. If Borini can get to what he needs to, that will take a huge amount of pressure off the midfield and hopefully lead to Lucas and especially Allen doing what they're good at. Certainly need to see more of Henderson though, Allen needs a rest.

[Zeb]

We seemed to be playing very narrow in the first half. Was that intentional, to bring Manchester United onto us and hit them on the break? It certainly didn't work. We looked flat, disjointed and very keen to commit hari-kari by football at times. Some woeful passing at times there by players who looked a little overawed and who didn't really get to grips with the Mancs pressing high up the pitch. Thought Carrick did a good job for them and we failed to put any pressure on him at times, not for lack of effort, just because he was able to play his game and by the time anyone got close to him he'd picked his pass and there was new space to play into for them. I guess that's the case for Henderson's inclusion at the moment isn't it? Just having someone who can get there just a bit quicker and the capacity to do it all match. Was surprised they scored in the way they did, van Persie's movement to get there ahead of Agger was superb, but it was some last ditch tackles which stopped the scoreline being bigger in their favour.

Another sloppy goal to concede to go two down as well. The way the wall couldn't manage to stand together with Pepe screaming at them seemed to just about sum up the nature of the day. And then the changes started to kick in. Did they take their foot off the pedal at that point? Think the job was over? Sturridge looked very, very good. We could take a step back from the Mansfield performance because of the strength of the opposition, that was against the league leaders so we can't really do that this time. If he keeps on like this, he'll score a lot. Even the goal he scored was near exactly what we were hoping for - getting to the rebound and then the finish. Tracking back like that was also good to see. Encouraging going forwards, especially if he can improve on his understanding with Suarez. And having the Mancs on the back foot for the last half hour of the game, reducing Ferguson to sending on Jones to man-mark Suarez, left a really curious impression.

There's two teams there at the moment. The team for the last half hour was obviously not going to play the full 90 minutes (Borini's first match back, Sturridge being eased into things). But it's the one which I think we're hoping to see far more frequently in the rest of the season.

[mkingdon]

Not for the first time the opposition have figured out that we HAVE to play out from the back every single time.  So they pile two or three players on top of the CBs and without fail, at some point in the game create a goal scoring chance from that pressure.

We have to be sensible.  We were away, at OT, against the league leaders.  Sometimes, you can't play out, so don't.  Second half it was noticeable how much more we were punting it forward.  Sturridge gives us someone over 5ft to aim at of course but it worked much better.

We need to mix it up, and be sensible.

My biggest problem first half was how scared we looked.  We looked like we were just waiting for them to score rather than take the game to their leaky defence.  That sort of attitude is inexcusable really.

On the plus side, Sturridge looks an excellent and tantalising prospect.  He has real pace, good control and can finish.  He and Suarez can and should terrify defences for the next few years, like they did in the last half hour on Sunday.

I am so sick of hearing post match press conferences where it is said we deserved more or were unlucky.  We have to add that bit of steel to our game and grind out more results.  With more than one forward now we might stand a chance!

[Flinstone]

random thoughts.

daniel looked exciting.he and suarez look like they get each other from the off which is excellent.they'll do well together.

at present we aren't a team that can play 3 midfielders because we don't control the game and we have a man short in attack when we're short of goals.

we played much better when it was a base of 2.I honestly feel in the premiership that this is the way to go.the team seems built for it too because you can easily see where sterling,sturridge and suarez fit.

wisdom is a super player but he isn't a right back.it's hurting us playing him there but long term it's only going to benefit us.

hopefully we can keep building steadily.an attacking player this window and a creative player in the summer.

steven gerrard-there were too many time when he wanted to pass long and then checked and played it short.that's valuable time in a system like this.he needs to do it instinctively.i hope he can adjust and turn in a couple of excellent seasons

[Jbreakfast123]

First post so here goes......

Gutted he didn't start with Sturridge, though if he's short of fitness then it's a moot point re selection for yesterday's game, but going forward then a 4-2-3-1 would be my preferred way to go.

Sturridge to stick on the shoulder of the defence will keep them honest and his pace will stop them pushing up and squeezing play (particularly away from home), that gives Suarez carte blanche to do damage wherever he sees fit in the space that's been created. He's also be incredibly difficult to pick up in that floating role.  Saw it yesterday, all of a sudden Carrick in particular didn't know whether to stick or twist in the second half. Also, often thought that Suarez as our most dangerous forward has been hampered by having to play up front and only up front (as in you can't get on your own crosses).

Borini's return should mean that Sterling/Downing can get some well earned and much needed rest, if we do add Ince then that increases options in the 'three'.

The only issue, and it's not a necessarily a bad thing, is the 'two' where you have to perm any two from Allen, Henderson, Gerrard and Lucas (you could possibly throw Shelvey into the mix but my preference would be that he adds to the options in the 'three'). Not necessarily a bad thing to have options, but four into two doesn't go and you need to keep them happy. It's also going to be very difficult politically for BR to drop Allen, whereas dropping Gerrard would be hugely contraversial, which doesn't look good too good for Lucas in that system, but he could always rotate, and one or two throughout the team look like they would benefit from either a rest or a kick up the arse that having to fight for your shirt gives you.

[didi]

Wisdom played well but for the 1st goal he should have closed Evra quicker and turned is back on the cross but in saying that Gerrard and Allen watching Lucas trying to break up the attack by himself didint help

[robgomm]

Definitely expected, though obviously that's not a good thing. I notice the Zonal Marking chap and Robbie Savage both talked about how much United pressured us on the ball in the first half to stop us playing. They did to an extent, though I also thought it was noticeable how far they were prepared to drop off us knowing that if they surrounded Suarez we'd not be able to penetrate. And we didn't have a shot in the first half (or did we have one solitary one, I forget).

We have to cope better when being pressed, it's unaccetable for a team who want to keep possession to make awful passing decisions when under pressure (Reina and Allen did this notably). Reina's pass success rate this season is about 75%, it was 63% yesterday. At the moment we are team whose results depend to too much extent on how the opposition approaches us. The more erratic or lacking their pressing, the better we seem to do.

Our midfield three didn't function well in the first half and we look more secure with two sitting deeper and one ahead of them, much better. We keep the ball better and do more with it. Hoping to see that continue against Norwich.

[Skidder.]

Pains to say, away or not, the shitehouses showed us up, they played the fundamentals; the core elements of the game we are trying to play. They passed and moved, and in turn, not only kept possession, they penetrated with that possession. Anyone ignorant to that factor, who are jumping on the bandwagon, slating individual players of ours and BR's tactics, need to go and get lost in a park.

Carrick played a blinder and so much emphasis seemed to be placed on Suarez and RVP, that Carrick and Cleverley seemed to be forgotten about. I'm by far not turning into a yesteryear supporter, but this is a game where Mascherano would have bullied their midfield and forced the short play.

I was impressed by Andre Wisdom, I would be interested to see Andre Wisdom's stats, as I distinctly remember seeing him picking the pockets of some of their wing-play. I often wondered how he would fair if he was played in the midfield, I know this is football manager mentality, but curiosity is killing the cat, he's a big strong lad and can read the game.

[Reds4Life]

This game reminded me so much of the FA Cup Final.

Sat back, gave up an early goal, decided to finally have a go after the second and you come away feeling cheated because we could have got a result if we had have played the first hour the way we played the last half hour.

Gave way too much respect, time and space to an opposition that struggles when pressed hard early. To a team that has gone behind 16 times already this season and whose defence is ripe for the taking of any opportunist chance that would fall Suarez's way through that build up of pressure but what do we do?

We just sat back and played the space. Ferguson the crafty Cnut used Cleverley and Kagawa to pull Lucas everywhere and then they both lapped up the space behind whenever Gerrard or Allen didn't follow the run on the opposite side.

Brendan got this one really wrong. I always thought the best formation would have actually been Henderson and Allen in with Lucas in the middle, drop Downing and Sterling and play Gerrard with Sturridge up front with Suarez. High energy midfield with an interchanging forward line that could get at their defence.

Sterling is mentally and physically jaded and was way too inexperienced for a game of this magnitude. Downing actually had a decent shout for a start considering his recent form however he just seems to become a bystander when faced against high quality opposition who are physical.

Why not use the guile of Suarez with the pace of Sturridge and movement of Stevie attacking a United back four I have never rated and a keeper who flaps at his own shadow?? A team that has actually conceded more goals than us this season....

That set up would have allowed us to attack them rather than drop off to the edge of our box and let Carrick run the show. Michael Carrick and running the show shouldn't be in the same sentence.

We allowed ourselves to get pressed higher up the pitch against a team who has greater quality finishers than the teams that have previously bothered us with this tactic. The result has been ultimately the same and we honestly were lucky to go in one down.

I was fuming at half time. The last time I felt like that was against Everton when we lost 3-0 and they immediately released the DVD. Just nothing. I hate Liverpool losing any time but I can actually stomach it if the lads have put in the graft, done a shift and were unlucky.

That first half almost made us look like we didn't know each other, what the structure was and if players actually knew the role they were being asked to play.

Special honarary mention to Stewart Downing however who excelled in his role as invisible passenger who only made his presence known to all by shitting out of any tackle he could. If they were the orders then they were followed immaculately. Next time he puts his finger to his lips in front of the Kop....yeah best leave it there, Stewart knows best.

I don't normally slag any Liverpool player off ever and I have backed Andy Carroll to the hilt in arguments, backed Charlie Adam, think Jordan Henderson will eventually turn out to be a Livepool player and even defended Downing to a degree last season but he is taking the piss today when all I can hear is the travelling Kop singing and you continue to throw that shit up and think it is good enough for the blood red shirt you are wearing, that we follow like its fucking religion.

Sturridge and Suarez looks deadly already. There's goals and plenty of them there.

Fucked off because I actually thought we were good for a result today but wrong tactics, wrong formation and a complete lack of mentality, attitude, physicality and balls ensures we come away from the theatre of wet dreams empty handed again.

[robgomm]

I was impressed by Andre Wisdom, I would be interested to see Andre Wisdom's stats, as I distinctly remember seeing him picking the pockets of some of their wing-play. I often wondered how he would fair if he was played in the midfield, I know this is football manager mentality, but curiosity is killing the cat, he's a big strong lad and can read the game.

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/615140/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2012-2013-Manchester-United-Liverpool

Made a few tackles, couple of interceptions.

I like Wisdom and agree with your description of him. But to me that description leads to him being a centre-back!

[subroc]

The manager botched up his plans for this game and left suarez up front on his own without any visible means of support and enabled United to swamp and overwhelm our midfield. Amnd then he compounded the error by not correcting it immediately until we were 0-2 down. After which he finally did what was needed to be done, but by that time it was too late to salvage the game and so we ended up with nothing to show from the game except the insults of the United fans and the United-loving media...

[MiserableP15]

Man, when he galloped up into their box in the 2nd half, a tiny part of you was thinking 'man, can he do this?'. Shame that never flew in - he'd have been a hero already.

The spin of the ball foxed him. He was right to take a shot, it's just the ball was a foot away from where it was supposed to be when he was lining it up.

Great to see Suarez's immediate words of encouragement too. 

[DanA]

Big ask to go to Old Trafford and get something out of it at the best of times and right now isn't the best of times. To be brutally honest I think Rodgers contributed to the loss in the way he set the midfield up. For me it there were several glaring mistakes.

Allen and Gerrard's role
It wasn't well co-ordinated. It looked like we played a 1-2 with Lucas the lone DM but in attack neither Gerrard or Allen seemed to push forward enough. That left Carrick sitting in front of Suarez rendering him ineffective and no time on the ball for Gerrard as Man Utd press well. Without a midfield outlet sitting between the lines we struggled to get it past the half way line. It meant we were forced to push into the wide positions but then there was nobody in the box to hit and Sterling/Downing were struggling to beat there opponents.

 
Defensively it was worse. Allen sitting so deep when we attacked meant when he tried to pressed up and pressure Carrick, it didn't work. Carrick had far too much time to pick a pass and proceeded to rip us apart with his range of passing. He's a lot like Adam in that when pressured he tends to fall apart but give him time and he'll put you to the sword. It didn't help that Gerrard failed to track runs well and too often Lucas was stuck covering two players as either Kagawa or Young cut inside or Van Persie/Welbeck pushed into the midfield. In some ways it was a testament to our back four that we didn't concede more.

After half time:
Some good thinking on his feet had Rodgers fix things immediately. I've got to say I was unimpressed to see Lucas off, thinking we should swap Allen for Henderson but IMO the move was better. Bringing on Sturridge and putting Suarez in a number 10 role did a number of things.
1. It forced Vidic and Ferdinand back, worried about Sturridge's speed.
2. It allowed Suarez to pressure Carrick and in attack run him ragged
3. It created space for Gerrard and allowed him to dictate play
4. Defensive pressure from hard working forwards

From that point the game was played on our terms with Allen and Gerrard getting on top. A poor goal from a set piece aside we dictated play and were better and had Whiskey nose's attention back. Carrick was pulled all over the place creating space for Gerrard's shot and Sturridge's subsequent goal. Suarez run amok linking up play and Sturridge closing down well while also tracking back which was really promising. We were possibly unlucky not to get a second.


The positives:
1. Sturridge: His speed, his control, his movement and his linking up with Suarez
2. Suarez: His ability to play the no.10 role impressed me

I think right now we are much better suited to a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 with Henderson pressing from a no.10 role and Gerrard sitting next to Lucas.

[JohnnoWhite]

Whilst I didn't see any of the game (working overseas) I was both happy and relieved to learn that United won the game. By all accounts we dominated the first half and should have been at a minimum 3-0 up at HT. For the first 15 mins of second half I read that United were just about keeping their noses in front but then it all began to get a bit edgy and nervy for my lot.
Sturridge reportedly impacted the moment he came on and Rodgers looks to have found a stable mate for Suarez up front. I thought whenever Sturridge got a chance to play last season, he looked to have a bit of something about him and maybe he and Suarez can get something going for the rest of the season for LFC.
It seems from comments I've read that if the future up front is looking a little brighter, the demise of the quality of supply from midfield reared its head on Sunday. Rodgers must be pulling his hair out at this and it magnifies the question "Who'd be a ferkin' manager in today's game?"

United? Happy to keep those sky-blue bar-stewards 7 behind us - even when we don't play at the top of our game. Whenever Rooney is out of the side we are always poorer in my opinion and I look to him returning to resume his partnership with RVP on Weds night.

[helmboy_nige]

If I'm honest I don't think we did look bright at all early in the first half.  We looked slow and laboured.  We looked cautious and worried and it played into Man Us hands.

The change at half time was vital and we were unlucky not to come away with a point.  A tougher question is should Rodgers have been more bold in his selection for the kickoff.  Personally, I think he was right (Allen vs Henderson aside) to be cautious.  It's his first trip to OT as Liverpool manager and going all gung ho from the off could have been even more disastrous.

I like that we change and mix things up early and don't wait till the 65th minute when it's all too late.  The Lucas sub was brave but he was having a poor game (in fact the whole central midfield was) and I'm not sure if that's down to fitness.

Sturridge instantly adds a new dimension and to see Suarez already looking to pass to him is a great sign of confidence.  The number of times we've seen Suarez go it alone rather than pass to a team-mate is staggering and I sometimes think it's down to his own confidence in their composure in front of goal.  No such problem here, the two were linking up nicely.

Was lovely to see Borini back.  I know it's early days but I do think he could add something we've lost and give us even more fluidity up front.

And a small word for Howard Webb.  I'm always quick to lambast refs for when they get things wrong, but given his history he had a really good game.

[Trim0582]

Man U are a well drilled and well oiled machine, 2-1 at Old Trafford is far from a bad result, it just doesn't feel like, and isn't, a good one. For me (and it seems most others) the almost abject performance in the first half is the root of my frustration.

I like Rodgers' in game management and the halftime introduction of Sturridge was timely and effective, there is an argument though about needing less in game management if you set up correctly to start with, but I will leave that there.

Just over a week in the shirt, 2 games, 2 goals and only a handful of training sessions, yet already some promising link-up play with Suarez. What's not to like about Sturridge? I thought a few were overly critical in the post match, focusing a little too much on missed chances rather than the over-all positive contribution his introduction yielded.

Sterling and Downing really don't offer much of a goal threat (certainly not one you could rely on), their craft is mainly used to get the ball to Suarez so he can score, which has worked several times this season, but it does mean that teams will double up on Suarez confident that it is rather unlikely anyone else will score. Sturridge changed everything immediately, defenders aren't so keen to leave him unattended, it instantly released Suarez, although sadly Suarez didn't have a game to remember (especially by his sometimes other wordly standards) but the signs were very encouraging.

I like Borini, maybe more than I have a right to, especially as he has hardly played, but his movement is very good, his is a tidy player and he looks technical, the three of them together as a front three manwich is mouth watering, oh and that volley, if only...

A few too many great final 30 minutes this season, but 2-1, it's a loss to the most consistant side in the league, it's certainly not as bad as some made out.

[careful on these streets, I've heard stories]

As much as people want to point to the team selection i.e Allen for Henderson as the reason for our first half performance I tend not to agree. We were poor in the first half because of our approach to the game, we didn't show enough fight across the pitch to worry them. In the second half we played much better with Allen in the side because our approach to the game changed.

It's always easy for fans to point to team selection as a reason for a bad performance with benefit of hindsight, I think Allen had been playing well when he had been coming off the bench in recent games. That said he was poor in the first half but IMO he was our only player who was putting himself about though unsuccessfully most times.

[Gnurglan]

Wisdom played well but for the 1st goal he should have closed Evra quicker and turned is back on the cross but in saying that Gerrard and Allen watching Lucas trying to break up the attack by himself didint help

Thought that was more Downing who was at fault. He came inside and left the whole flank open. Wisdom had no choice but to stay in the center. So ball goes out left and there's no-one there. Downing's space for me. Maybe SD was covering for someone else, but I don't think it was Wisdom's error.

[Big Red Richie]

Without getting in to a long post, quite simply, we gave them far too much respect in the first half.

By not closing down, marking tighter and standing off, we gave them all of the time and space they needed.

We should of been snapping at their heels.

How we went in only one down, I'll never know.


When we actually competed, second half, we looked the better team by far.  Unfortunately, the damage was already done by the time we got going.

[robgomm]

Some good thinking on his feet had Rodgers fix things immediately. I've got to say I was unimpressed to see Lucas off, thinking we should swap Allen for Henderson but IMO the move was better. Bringing on Sturridge and putting Suarez in a number 10 role did a number of things.
1. It forced Vidic and Ferdinand back, worried about Sturridge's speed.
2. It allowed Suarez to pressure Carrick and in attack run him ragged
3. It created space for Gerrard and allowed him to dictate play
4. Defensive pressure from hard working forwards

I think right now we are much better suited to a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 with Henderson pressing from a no.10 role and Gerrard sitting next to Lucas.

Think this is a very good analysis (not just cos I agree with it ). Suarez is a pain enough to defend anyway but when you give him licence to find space a bit deeper because Sturridge is ahead of him, the opposition is going to have a major problem working out how to cope with the movement of the two players. Pressure from the front giving Gerrard more time on the ball is a must as well, he's brilliant at controlling a game.

Also absolutely agree on the last line.

[Gnurglan]

Not for the first time the opposition have figured out that we HAVE to play out from the back every single time.  So they pile two or three players on top of the CBs and without fail, at some point in the game create a goal scoring chance from that pressure.

We have to be sensible.  We were away, at OT, against the league leaders.  Sometimes, you can't play out, so don't.  Second half it was noticeable how much more we were punting it forward.  Sturridge gives us someone over 5ft to aim at of course but it worked much better.

We need to mix it up, and be sensible.

My biggest problem first half was how scared we looked.  We looked like we were just waiting for them to score rather than take the game to their leaky defence.  That sort of attitude is inexcusable really.

On the plus side, Sturridge looks an excellent and tantalising prospect.  He has real pace, good control and can finish.  He and Suarez can and should terrify defences for the next few years, like they did in the last half hour on Sunday.

I am so sick of hearing post match press conferences where it is said we deserved more or were unlucky.  We have to add that bit of steel to our game and grind out more results.  With more than one forward now we might stand a chance!

Agree. It's OK to have it as a general idea to play it out from the back. We can try and do it as often as possible. But we don't have to do it at all cost. Which I think is what we tried in the first half. If we are to punt it and get something out of it, I reckon we need to add a bit of steel up front. It's why I believe we've tried Enrique LM earlier this season. It's not so much for his attacking qualities as it is for his physique. We get a stronger player up there as a target to play the ball for. A player who can hold the ball up or head it on. We can't send every ball to Suarez (surrounded by two CBs).

If we were to play Sturridge and Suarez a bit closer together (as opposed to Sterling, Suarez and Downing far away from each other) we'd also have a greater chance of success with those balls forward. We're adding it to our game and it's very welcome.

[jaffod]

Without getting in to a long post, quite simply, we gave them far too much respect in the first half.

By not closing down, marking tighter and standing off, we gave them all of the time and space they needed.

We should of been snapping at their heels.

How we went in only one down, I'll never know.


When we actually competed, second half, we looked the better team by far.  Unfortunately, the damage was already done by the time we got going.

Apart from the 4-1 you could have posted that in virtually all of the post-match threads over the last 10 years when we've played at OT. Sickening.

[hollger]

Beforehand I was nervously excited - I wasn't expecting us to win, but I didn't think we'd lose. The way we started we looked bright and passed it well, but there was nothing in terms of an end product. Rodgers alluded to this himself in one of the post-game interviews and it's something that needs addressing - you could argue there was at least an attempt at turning possession into attacking pressure in the second half, though.

Their goal came from nothing and we fell flat almost instantly. I was angry at half time, because we looked like we'd settled for bending over and taking our medicine. Although it took a second goal to really kick us up the jacksie, from then on we looked much the better team and arguably controlled the game. I ended up being strangely pleased when all was said and done - naturally disappointed to have lost to that lot, but very much encouraged by the way we played in the second half. Once Sturridge and Borini are back at full fitness it'll be interesting to see how we line up in terms of shape and personnel.

My heart was in my mouth when Skrtel fouled Wellbeck, because 1) it was Webb, 2) it was at Old Trafford and 3) because I've seen many a defender walk for that offence. I think the fact it was so close to the area and Reina was advancing saved us though - but we fell asleep from the resulting delivery and conceded once more. Just when I was contemplating punching something, we fly up the other end and Gerrard, in one of those "grab the game by the scruff of the neck" moments pounces on Valencia(?), nicks the ball and produces a weak-ish strike that De Gea fails miserably to deal with and Sturridge taps in his League debut goal. Instead of punching the wall, I punch the air in delight!

I then sit in anticipation of a Utd backlash, but it didn't really arrive. Instead we were the aggressor and everyone seemed really fired up. Whereas in the first half Skrtel stood off Van Persie, he now clattered right into him, dispossessed him fairly and left him on the floor. There was more bite in Gerrard's tackle, more purpose as Agger strode forward looking for a pass. We actually looked like a team that would trouble them, and we caused our fair share of jumpy moments for them - just a shame Sturridge couldn't tuck away what was in all honesty for him a glaring opportunity. Perhaps with more match fitness and sharpness he will.

I'll admit to being torn when I saw Borini warming up as well. I was on one hand delighted to see more attacking intent but on the other worried that we'd get too gung-ho and leave ourselves wide open on the counter. Thankfully this didn't happen, though the introduction of Henderson may have been the primary reason - he did well again in his brief cameo, I thought.

Overall it was a shame we couldn't find that equaliser. We lost the match and it hurts, but there were positives to take away no doubt about it. There were also questions raised, most notably perhaps pertaining to our midfield - can Allen and Lucas play together? Should Henderson be prioritised over one of them? Tactically we weren't good enough in the first half, but then again the players weren't awake so it was difficult to see what our game plan was as Utd rode all over us. It was noticeably different in the second half and I'd like to think there were a few choice words delivered during the break.

To address the question in the OP, I think we'll see a lot of good things from Sturridge and Suarez over the coming weeks. You could see there were attempts to play off and find each other already, and as Luis dropped deeper to accommodate the new boy it certainly produced options in the final third. The ball Suarez played across field onto Sturridge's toe was lovely, and I was pleased to see him control the ball with ease. In his first game he looked a bit rusty I guess and struggled a bit with ball control, but then again the Mansfield pitch wasn't the best ever so I'm probably being overly harsh. I think with Borini too we'll see exciting things as his fitness improves. The front three could be a very potent force given the right support from midfield, which will have to improve - but can hopefully do just that whilst the attackers develop their relationships and understanding.

I was also quite surprised at just how tall Sturridge is. I know there was that running joke about his height in the WTF sub-forum but until I'd seen him playing (for us - can't say I took that much notice when he played for anyone else!) and coming up against Ferdinand etc, I don't think I appreciated his height. Certainly moves quick for a big lad!