Poll

Greatest Sportsman of all time

Michael Jordan
23 (15.9%)
Muhammad Ali
58 (40%)
Usain Bolt
8 (5.5%)
Michael Phelps
1 (0.7%)
Babe Ruth
2 (1.4%)
Pele
6 (4.1%)
Roger Federer
5 (3.4%)
LeBron James
0 (0%)
Tom Brady
4 (2.8%)
Tiger Woods
9 (6.2%)
Lionel Messi
7 (4.8%)
Floyd Mayweather Jr
1 (0.7%)
Jesse Owens
4 (2.8%)
Novak Djokovic
0 (0%)
Rafael Nadal
0 (0%)
Maradona
4 (2.8%)
Wayne Gretzky
4 (2.8%)
Mike Tyson
0 (0%)
Carl Lewis
2 (1.4%)
Jack Nicklaus
0 (0%)
Don Bradman
7 (4.8%)
Michael Schumacher
0 (0%)
Michael Johnson
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 145

Author Topic: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?  (Read 5177 times)

Offline Pradan

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #80 on: January 21, 2023, 03:20:12 pm »
Are we doing sportswomen at some point to complete the set too?

Your wish shall be granted. I'll give it a few more days.

Offline Skeeve

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #81 on: January 21, 2023, 03:22:56 pm »
Given the wide range of sports and the differences in criteria use to vote, this would have been better as a multiple selection poll and let people pick their top 3.

Offline Pradan

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #82 on: January 21, 2023, 03:28:09 pm »
3rd place is the interesting battle in this all.

Bolt holding it at the moment with Bradman, Woods and Pele all one vote behind.

Offline 19th Nervous Title

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #83 on: January 21, 2023, 03:31:40 pm »
Golf's greatest is Bobby Jones.

13 major championships in only 8 seasons, including golfs only slam of all four majors in a single season. All as an amateur. Played the sport for the love of the game.
Emily Hobhouse. Britain's finest.

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #84 on: January 21, 2023, 04:15:20 pm »
Surely Conor McGregor is in the reckoning. 😜

Has to be Ali as was unbelievable in the ring during his prime and could hold court with anyone outside with his brilliant wit. Nearly 50 years after his best days in the ring and everyone would still know his name. Gretzky could walk down any street in Europe and no one would know him.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #85 on: January 21, 2023, 05:03:23 pm »
Surely Conor McGregor is in the reckoning. 😜

Has to be Ali as was unbelievable in the ring during his prime and could hold court with anyone outside with his brilliant wit. Nearly 50 years after his best days in the ring and everyone would still know his name. Gretzky could walk down any street in Europe and no one would know him.

If we're including achievements outside sport, Bob Crisp, South African fast bowler from the 1930s.

IIRC took 4 wickets in 4 balls on 2 occasions, decent Test career at a time when South Africa were weak AF. Served with 3rd RTR in Greece, North Africa and Normandy. After a particularly severe injury which his crewmates thought he had died from, he reassured a visiting George VI that it wouldn't stop him from resuming his cricket career (he never did, although he returned to the war with a vengeance). In addition to shooting up enemy armour (earning him Alexander's accolade as the "greatest Hun-killer he knew"), he also shot down an enemy aircraft with small arms fire. DSO and MC, he reckoned he only missed out on a VC because Montgomery personally disliked him (repeatedly promoted for ability and demoted for insubordination). Still, as mentioned, Montgomery's boss rated his German-killing ability. Wrote what's commonly regarded to be the best war memoir from an allied tanker. Climbed Kilimanjaro twice in one day, carrying his mate on his back on the second trip up and down. Late in his life, diagnosed with terminal cancer and decided to make the most of his remaining time, travelling around Crete and writing travelogues whilst testing experimental medicine. Became the subject of medical studies after said medicine worked and his terminal cancer disappeared, albeit not as prescribed (supposed to be topical, but he drank it with retsina). Attended 1992 cricket world cup where his son was regaled by Godfrey Evans, who was in awe at Crisp's achievement of a century on tour. When his son remarked that lots of cricketers had scored hundreds on tour, Evans clarified that Bob had slept with a hundred different women on a single cricket tour (generally 3-4 months).

On the trail of Patrick Leigh Fermor in Greece
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2012/sep/28/patrick-leigh-fermor-mani-peninsula-greece

Reporter goes to Crete to find stories of the legendary travel writer Patrick Leigh Fermor. He tracks down the village where Leigh Fermor lived, and even the bar where he drank. Reporter asks if the locals remember an Englishman who used to live there.

"We do seem to attract a lot of writers," said the old man eventually. "But that's a name I don't remember."

"Bruce Chatwin, Baroose Chit-win, Chaatwing." I tried a few variations but none struck a chord. "His ashes are scattered somewhere in the hills."

"No, I never heard of him."

"What about Sir Patrick Leigh Fermor? You must know about him."

The old man shook his head. "No, I don't think so. There was a writer called Robert. Now he was famous – cured himself of cancer by walking around Crete. He was very famous."

This felt all wrong. Was I in the right place? How annoying that the locals should raise this unknown above the two giants of travel literature.

Fotis leaned back and shouted in Greek to his wife in the kitchen. She came through, cloth in hand. "Robert Crisp," she said, smiling. "What a wonderful man! So handsome! I remember him sitting up at Dioskouri's taverna drinking and talking with Paddy. They were always laughing."

"Did you see a lot of him?" I asked.

Fotis shrugged. "Sometimes. He liked to walk a lot. Now Robert Crisp – I used to see him. What a character!"

Quote from: Guardian
He won his DSO at Sidi Rezegh, where he led his tank in a single-handed charge across an airfield that temporarily checked an advance of 70 German Panzers.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Sangria

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #86 on: January 21, 2023, 05:46:15 pm »
Addendum to above:

"When Crisp came back a short ball kicked and whizzed past Bradman's chin. The next two balls nearly knocked Bradman's legs from under him. Bradman winced, set his teeth, and crashed the last ball to the boundary like lightning. In the next over Crisp again attacked, but Bradman got away from the strike"
...
After lunch Bradman wore hip-pads. Crisp rapped him severely before lunch, and Bradman apparently decided to take no risks.
...
Then Bradman took possession of the situation and ran into his best form, repaying Crisp for embarrassing him before lunch."

Worcestershire v Australia, 1938
Australia 541 (Bradman 258, Crisp 4-170)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2023, 06:03:14 pm by Sangria »
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline rushyman

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #87 on: January 21, 2023, 05:55:13 pm »
Ali has turned into a kind of auto choice now

Look at someone who is in a competition with a Way bigger field

I believe the last world cup has pushed Messi beyond it all. Before that I may have gone with Michael Jordan
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #88 on: January 21, 2023, 06:05:14 pm »
You do but it’s a sport that kinda alienates a whole working and lower class, which is the majority of the world. I would never say so and so is the Greatest sportsman of all time in a sport that’s not even widely accessible to the majority of the population of any given country. This is why my number two would always be Pele(Messi) and Muhammad Ali, insert the greatest from any two of these sports, third would be the greatest basketball player but even that has limitations in terms of physical makeup and genetics that football and Boxing doesn’t have.

Also I would say the best athletes in America undoubtedly play Basketball NFL and even Baseball first, Golf would be along down the line after Boxing and maybe Athletics too, same thing with Europe and England it’s Football first and foremost then maybe Boxing Rugby, Athletics and even Tennis and Cricket.

Not to say Golf is any easier than any of these sports in difficulty it would rank alongside Baseball has the most difficult sport I’ve played casually but that’s another discussion.

Track and field. My choice wasn't a pro. Was working part time simply to pay for his education.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Online Coolie High

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #89 on: January 21, 2023, 08:43:39 pm »
Track and field. My choice wasn't a pro. Was working part time simply to pay for his education.

Jesse Owens is a great choice.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #90 on: January 21, 2023, 08:59:06 pm »
If we're talking Ali in terms of fame outside the sport, was there anything wider ranged than Bradmania at the time? Cricket is dismissed as a colonial thing now, but the British Empire was pretty big at its peak, and cricket, not football, was the sport tying it all together at the time. And if we refer to Ali's fame, it's a common understanding that the primacy of Bradman against the old country contributed significantly to the identity of Australia as its own nation separate from Britain. Have any other sportsmen contributed so much to the effective independence of their nation?

"The only history we were taught was European. Poetry cut out after Tennyson. If we spoke of literary figures, we spoke of Englishmen. Cricket was the great way out of Australian cultural ignominy for, while no Australian had written Paradise Lost, we knew Don Bradman had made 100 before lunch at Lord’s." - Thomas Keneally
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Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #91 on: January 21, 2023, 09:05:15 pm »
Maradona is the correct answer.

Greatest woman is Katie Taylor.
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

Offline JJ Red

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #92 on: January 21, 2023, 09:09:06 pm »
As a pure sportsman its Jordan, hands down...if you're talking about societal impact also then Ali, although Jordan with the brand Air Jordan had a deep lasting impact.

Jordan lifted basketball to a truly global level that even Magic, Bird, and Abdul-Jabbar couldn't. He changed sports marketing also and created a brand that is still known the world over.

Game-wise, he started out as this unbelievable physical talent who could score at will, and developed into the most complete all round talent the game has (and will ever) seen.

When he struggled to get past the Celtics and then the Pistons in the late 80s he didn't start looking for other teams or blaming his team mates (although he was very harsh on them no doubt) he looked inward and spent more time in the gym and practice court and came back even stronger. Under unprecedented scrutiny and pressure he finally won a title and then, eventually, won another 5.

Even his weird comeback for the Wizards at the age of 38 wasn't as bad as some would have you believe. At the age of 40 he was still a top-20 player in the NBA IMO, and still had 40 pt (and even the odd 50 pt) nights.

I'd recommend The Last Dance doc to anyone who has some spare time.


Online DangerScouse

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #93 on: January 21, 2023, 09:18:43 pm »
The lack of votes for Woods is staggering!

Offline Sangria

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #94 on: January 21, 2023, 09:22:49 pm »
The lack of votes for Woods is staggering!

There are more votes for Tiger Woods than for Jesse Owens.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline JJ Red

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #95 on: January 21, 2023, 09:25:49 pm »
The lack of votes for Woods is staggering!

I'm not a golf expert so please feel free to correct me but isn't there still a decent debate about Jack Nicklaus still being golf's GOAT?

People might also have some prejudices about Woods' character? Maybe unfair but there was a time when Woods was known more for his off-tee escapades.

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #96 on: January 21, 2023, 09:33:30 pm »
As a pure sportsman its Jordan, hands down...if you're talking about societal impact also then Ali, although Jordan with the brand Air Jordan had a deep lasting impact.

Jordan lifted basketball to a truly global level that even Magic, Bird, and Abdul-Jabbar couldn't. He changed sports marketing also and created a brand that is still known the world over.

Game-wise, he started out as this unbelievable physical talent who could score at will, and developed into the most complete all round talent the game has (and will ever) seen.

When he struggled to get past the Celtics and then the Pistons in the late 80s he didn't start looking for other teams or blaming his team mates (although he was very harsh on them no doubt) he looked inward and spent more time in the gym and practice court and came back even stronger. Under unprecedented scrutiny and pressure he finally won a title and then, eventually, won another 5.

Even his weird comeback for the Wizards at the age of 38 wasn't as bad as some would have you believe. At the age of 40 he was still a top-20 player in the NBA IMO, and still had 40 pt (and even the odd 50 pt) nights.

I'd recommend The Last Dance doc to anyone who has some spare time.

Pele done the exact same with Football, which is a bigger sport than Basketball, he just doesn’t have a last dance style documentary.

Also what makes Jordan a better all round talent than Lebron James?

Offline mikeb58

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #97 on: January 21, 2023, 09:48:43 pm »
Ali...no contest for me. Love the guy, his skill, humour, unbounded confidence took boxing to a whole new level. He turned boxing into an art form in my opinion. The fight against Foreman is my favourite ever sporting memory, people feared for his safety going into that fight, then Ali bamboozled the world with his crazy tactics.

I will never tire of watching that knock out punch against Foreman, then that iconic pose of him standing triumphantly over Frazier as he spun to the deck. Ali stunned the whole world of sport that night, no many sporting individuals can claim that!
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Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #98 on: January 21, 2023, 09:58:28 pm »
Greatest athlete. Jesse Owens surely is up there as i could only imagine the hatred he received during his lifetime. Having to live in Alabama 100 years ago surely meant he was treated like an animal by some, couldn't even sit down with his white team mates from school and share a meal. The man equaled the world record in 100 yards while still in high school. That's nuts. Anyway great shout
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Offline JJ Red

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #99 on: January 21, 2023, 09:58:50 pm »
Pele done the exact same with Football, which is a bigger sport than Basketball, he just doesn’t have a last dance style documentary.

Also what makes Jordan a better all round talent than Lebron James?

I almost don't want to respond because it will seem like disrespecting Pele :)

Fair play on Pele, my choice would be Jordan. When Jordan went to the Bulls they were useless. He inspired a City and breathed new life into his sport. Pele, I believe, didn't have to single-handedly drag Santos or Brazil to great heights. In 1984 the Chicago Bulls were a joke...and by the time he left his teams were seen as the greatest the sport had seen. Even now, only Golden State have made it into the GOAT conversation with the 90s Bulls.

Again just my opinion but the Lebron issue is easier. Lebron, IMO, is top 5 all-time, but he's not Jordan. When things got tough the first time round in Cleveland he tapped up Wade and Bosh and "took his talents to South Beach" (God help us btw...he automatically moves down places because of 'the Decision'). He had a 3 genuine all star team and they were good (they still lost the title in his first season btw). Lebron leaned into this super-team era where stars wait until contracts expire and then all sign for a team with enough cap-space. Its been shite for the game IMO. Its partly why he's managed to get Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook to play in LA with him now.

Then when he's won 2 on his super team in Miami he comes back to Cleveland and wins one for them (his greatest achievement by some margin - fair play to him - amazing). Upon winning that '1' in Cleveland he announces that he is the GOAT. I'm of the belief that, boxing excepted, if you have to refer to yourself as the greatest, you aren't. Its why Messi is better than Ronaldo. Then things don't go to plan and he leaves Cleveland in the lurch a second time and heads to the Lakers, the Utd of basketball teams.

All true basketball fans know Jordan is head and shoulders above Lebron, as great as Lebron is himself.

Offline dikwad

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #100 on: January 21, 2023, 10:03:11 pm »
Ali without question. The most famous and iconic sportsman in history, simply The Greatest.

Offline CS111

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #101 on: January 21, 2023, 10:14:41 pm »
Fatima whitbread

Offline Sangria

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #102 on: January 21, 2023, 10:17:39 pm »
I almost don't want to respond because it will seem like disrespecting Pele :)

Fair play on Pele, my choice would be Jordan. When Jordan went to the Bulls they were useless. He inspired a City and breathed new life into his sport. Pele, I believe, didn't have to single-handedly drag Santos or Brazil to great heights. In 1984 the Chicago Bulls were a joke...and by the time he left his teams were seen as the greatest the sport had seen. Even now, only Golden State have made it into the GOAT conversation with the 90s Bulls.

Again just my opinion but the Lebron issue is easier. Lebron, IMO, is top 5 all-time, but he's not Jordan. When things got tough the first time round in Cleveland he tapped up Wade and Bosh and "took his talents to South Beach" (God help us btw...he automatically moves down places because of 'the Decision'). He had a 3 genuine all star team and they were good (they still lost the title in his first season btw). Lebron leaned into this super-team era where stars wait until contracts expire and then all sign for a team with enough cap-space. Its been shite for the game IMO. Its partly why he's managed to get Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook to play in LA with him now.

Then when he's won 2 on his super team in Miami he comes back to Cleveland and wins one for them (his greatest achievement by some margin - fair play to him - amazing). Upon winning that '1' in Cleveland he announces that he is the GOAT. I'm of the belief that, boxing excepted, if you have to refer to yourself as the greatest, you aren't. Its why Messi is better than Ronaldo. Then things don't go to plan and he leaves Cleveland in the lurch a second time and heads to the Lakers, the Utd of basketball teams.

All true basketball fans know Jordan is head and shoulders above Lebron, as great as Lebron is himself.

Why does the overall greatest sportsman have to be a basketball player though?
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
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Offline JJ Red

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #103 on: January 21, 2023, 10:34:37 pm »
Why does the overall greatest sportsman have to be a basketball player though?

He/she doesn't, its just that Coolie High had mentioned Lebron James in comparison with Jordan. I was just saying that Jordan is the basketball GOAT and in my opinion the greatest sportsman of all time :)

I would have actually liked to have seen Mario Lemieux (ice hockey player) get a mention alongside Gretzky. Again, inspired a down-and-out franchise threatened with relocation. Won 2 stanley cups, came back from cancer, retired, came back 2 years later as if he hadn't missed a beat, and then saved the franchise from leaving town by putting together an ownership group and buying them. He is Pittsburgh's version of Kenny.

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #104 on: January 21, 2023, 11:43:09 pm »
I almost don't want to respond because it will seem like disrespecting Pele :)

Fair play on Pele, my choice would be Jordan. When Jordan went to the Bulls they were useless. He inspired a City and breathed new life into his sport. Pele, I believe, didn't have to single-handedly drag Santos or Brazil to great heights. In 1984 the Chicago Bulls were a joke...and by the time he left his teams were seen as the greatest the sport had seen. Even now, only Golden State have made it into the GOAT conversation with the 90s Bulls.

Again just my opinion but the Lebron issue is easier. Lebron, IMO, is top 5 all-time, but he's not Jordan. When things got tough the first time round in Cleveland he tapped up Wade and Bosh and "took his talents to South Beach" (God help us btw...he automatically moves down places because of 'the Decision'). He had a 3 genuine all star team and they were good (they still lost the title in his first season btw). Lebron leaned into this super-team era where stars wait until contracts expire and then all sign for a team with enough cap-space. Its been shite for the game IMO. Its partly why he's managed to get Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook to play in LA with him now.

Then when he's won 2 on his super team in Miami he comes back to Cleveland and wins one for them (his greatest achievement by some margin - fair play to him - amazing). Upon winning that '1' in Cleveland he announces that he is the GOAT. I'm of the belief that, boxing excepted, if you have to refer to yourself as the greatest, you aren't. Its why Messi is better than Ronaldo. Then things don't go to plan and he leaves Cleveland in the lurch a second time and heads to the Lakers, the Utd of basketball teams.

All true basketball fans know Jordan is head and shoulders above Lebron, as great as Lebron is himself.

The argument you make for Bulls can be made for Brazil with Pele, before Pele Brazil had not won a World Cup, till a  17 year old came and scored 6 goals in the World Cup, 58 was their first title, 20 years later they were associated with everything beautiful about The Beautiful Game’. Jordan also had HOF players like Pippen and Rodman to help with the load, Pele had great players to play alongside too, but the catalyst starts with them, Brazil before Pele and Brazil after Pele is two different things.

The Lebrun conversation was in terms of all roundness, you say Jordan was the best player of all time all round but was he? In what facets is he better than Lebron, certainly not playmaking? You could argue for his defence maybe, but scoring? 3 pt shooting? I don’t think so.

All the stuff is just narrative based, and funnily you bring Ronaldo up but sounds awfully like Ronaldo fans saying he is better than Messi because he’s done it in more leagues etc.

Offline 4pool

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #105 on: January 22, 2023, 12:38:35 am »
Your wish shall be granted. I'll give it a few more days.

Better include "Babe" Didrikson Zaharias.

Not many in here will know of her but was voted top 10 Athletes of the 20th century in the USA and that included males.
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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #106 on: January 22, 2023, 01:32:24 am »
Better include "Babe" Didrikson Zaharias.

Not many in here will know of her but was voted top 10 Athletes of the 20th century in the USA and that included males.

Yep...
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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #107 on: January 22, 2023, 02:17:01 am »
The answer is always the ones who compete against the most competitors. It’s a footballer every time so I’ve chosen messi but it could be pele or maradona who I only watched in his latter years.

I know there can be arguments for others but we have to consider who they were up against. That’s why footballers have to be at the top. There are millions of kids around the world trying their best to be the best. No other sport has that.

Maybe boxing in the early part of the last century but it still wouldn’t be close.

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #108 on: January 23, 2023, 09:10:46 am »
Interesting how Federer has 5 votes whilst Nadal and Djokovic have 0. Goes to show how style and personality play a role over success in terms of mere numbers.
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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #109 on: January 23, 2023, 10:13:11 am »
Not that an F1 driver could ever really be the greatest sportsman ever considering their reliance on their cars, but a bit daft to only have one in there who isn't even the best F1 driver ever.
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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #110 on: January 26, 2023, 10:03:53 am »
My guess is a female version of the poll would come out strongly in favour of Serena Williams with Muhammad Ali taking an overall title fairly comprehensively.
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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #111 on: January 26, 2023, 10:24:36 am »
You can't pick Jesse Owens for this because unlike other sports, athletics is linear and records are broken. His personal best in the 100m is 10.3, if you're going to pick someone in that field it may as well be Carl Lewis, who competed in the same events, ran faster, jumped longer and won far more.

Impossible to really compare disciplines to this degree, though if you're going to say sportsmen and not athletes I'd say O'Sullivan deserves to be in the list at least. How many other people have won huge titles in their sports almost 30 years apart? He won two World Championships in his mid-40's, in a sport where most players flame out after a decade or so, and that's before you get on to his scoring and speed records.

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #112 on: January 26, 2023, 11:12:17 am »
You can't pick Jesse Owens for this because unlike other sports, athletics is linear and records are broken. His personal best in the 100m is 10.3, if you're going to pick someone in that field it may as well be Carl Lewis, who competed in the same events, ran faster, jumped longer and won far more.


Owens wasn't a drugs cheat.

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #113 on: January 26, 2023, 11:21:12 am »
You can't pick Jesse Owens for this because unlike other sports, athletics is linear and records are broken. His personal best in the 100m is 10.3, if you're going to pick someone in that field it may as well be Carl Lewis, who competed in the same events, ran faster, jumped longer and won far more.

Impossible to really compare disciplines to this degree, though if you're going to say sportsmen and not athletes I'd say O'Sullivan deserves to be in the list at least. How many other people have won huge titles in their sports almost 30 years apart? He won two World Championships in his mid-40's, in a sport where most players flame out after a decade or so, and that's before you get on to his scoring and speed records.

Records are broken in athletics though not necessarily because of better athletes but because of advancements in aspects such as training, equipment, technology and nutrition (and drugs). Carl Lewis and Jesse Owens competed 40 or so years apart from each other, so of course the more recent of the two has the better personal bests.
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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #114 on: January 26, 2023, 11:33:13 am »
Hah hah, Carl Lewis.
You may as well put Lance Armstrong and Ivan Drago on there as well.

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #115 on: January 26, 2023, 11:41:33 am »
If Ali hadn't had 3+ years off at his peak there wouldn't even be the need for a poll it would be so clear cut... he'd have gone a decade plus undefeated. After the lay off he was still the worlds best but not the same athlete

Before him there'd never been a boxer (or any athlete) at 210 who could move like that, had hands that fast and that much will to win
As we later found out he also had a granite chin... but pre lay off he never used to get hit clean, ever.

Boxing is the ultimate sport - its really the only sport where you have to optimise for power and endurance and its a sport where there's zero hiding place and  almost no luck factor - and Ali was the ultimate boxer

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #116 on: January 26, 2023, 12:47:04 pm »
Still no Brian Jacks lol


Not really worth voting is it?
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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #117 on: January 26, 2023, 12:49:12 pm »
Ali is not the greatest sportsman ever because he was great a boxing or because boxing is the ultimate test. Ali is the greatest sportsman ever because he captured the imagination of the public like nobody else before and since. Sport is entertainment and therefore greatness is not measured in terms of cups, medals, belts or rings, nor is it measured by statistics, it is determined by how they make you feel. Ali was certainly an outstanding  athlete of all time, but more so, he was a great artist, activist and inspiration in a way unlike anyone else to grace any pitch, field, ring, circuit or court. There have been more dominant, more successful and more naturally gifted athletes but there is only one Ali.
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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #118 on: January 26, 2023, 01:53:19 pm »
It has to be Ali, and it's difficult to imagine a world in the future when it is not Ali. As George Foreman said, Ali was not the greatest boxer ever to get in a ring, that (in his opinion) was Joe Louis. But Ali was the greatest man to ever get in a ring.

I think Michael Jordan is the closest of the rest to that status that only Ali has of completely transcending their sport. Possibly Jesse Owens and in Argentina, definitely Maradona.

In terms of people who were so far ahead of the field in their sport as to be 100% un-arguably the best to ever do it, then the answer is Gretsky or Bradman probably.

The sportsman who had the most impact on their sport is probably Tiger Woods. Golf is a completely different game to 20 years ago, and I remember reading stats on how when at his peak, the fact that Tiger was involved in a tournament meant that statistically every other player typically scored a shot worse for no other reason.

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #119 on: January 26, 2023, 02:04:28 pm »
So the question who is the greatest sportsman of all time seems to have gone to who is the greatest sportsman and personality.

Which is it?