Poll

Greatest Sportsman of all time

Michael Jordan
23 (15.9%)
Muhammad Ali
58 (40%)
Usain Bolt
8 (5.5%)
Michael Phelps
1 (0.7%)
Babe Ruth
2 (1.4%)
Pele
6 (4.1%)
Roger Federer
5 (3.4%)
LeBron James
0 (0%)
Tom Brady
4 (2.8%)
Tiger Woods
9 (6.2%)
Lionel Messi
7 (4.8%)
Floyd Mayweather Jr
1 (0.7%)
Jesse Owens
4 (2.8%)
Novak Djokovic
0 (0%)
Rafael Nadal
0 (0%)
Maradona
4 (2.8%)
Wayne Gretzky
4 (2.8%)
Mike Tyson
0 (0%)
Carl Lewis
2 (1.4%)
Jack Nicklaus
0 (0%)
Don Bradman
7 (4.8%)
Michael Schumacher
0 (0%)
Michael Johnson
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 145

Author Topic: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?  (Read 5053 times)

Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #160 on: January 27, 2023, 02:46:56 pm »
I went with Tiger Woods, but easily could have chosen a few others.

Some of the thinking about Woods is the before and after. Before Woods a lot of golfers could compete at or near to the top and they were far from athletic specimens. Hand eye coordination etc. yes, but Woods ushered in a new era of athleticism into the sport, so that nowadays it is rare to see a top golfer who isn’t in shape, athletically.

In addition to changing that side of the game, Woods boosted the interest in the sport to such a degree that earnings before and after are worlds apart too.

When Woods was at his early peak, there was a large gap between him and the rest. As Woods got older others followed suit and started to catch up, but he changed the game.

Having ushered in an age of athleticism, how would a peak Tiger Woods fair now. My guess, though I don’t know all too much about golf, is that he still would be a head above the rest.
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Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #161 on: January 27, 2023, 02:58:35 pm »
Jordan is way may more popular than Brady worldwide, it’s not even a contest but aside from that...

It’s partly due to America’s soft power and their media presence where Jordan can get 3-4 times the votes Messi or Pele do on a football forum, with maybe a fair few people voting for him being casual fans of Basketball to say the least, documentaries like ‘The Last Dance’ and him being probably the only Basketball player a lot of people on here know, he was the greatest basketball player of his time but I don’t see how there can be such a disparity between him Pele and Messi when the vast majority of people on here are probably way more familiar with the career and achievements of the latter.

Yeah I think it's mostly because people only really know of Michael Jordan when it comes to the NBA, whereas whenever Messi or Pele are thought of it's always, "yeah but what about Best/Ronaldo/Mardona/Dalglish" etc.
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Offline Scottymuser

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #162 on: January 27, 2023, 03:26:21 pm »
The two greatest statistical outliers of all time are Bradman and Gretzky.  A good way of measuring this, for sports like these, is to look at averages, and how many standard deviations they are above the rest (or a Z score).  Statistician Charles Davis did the heavy work for multiple sports, although excluding the ice hockey players.

The results:

Bradman has a z-score of 5.0 when considering batsmen only when taking batting average in Tests
Pele has a z score of 3.7 when considering strikers, and goals per game at international football.
Ty Cobb has the best z score in baseball, with a z score of 3.6 when looking at his batting average.
Jordan has a z score of about 3.4 in basketball - about the same as Wilt Chamberlain, so to argue he is more dominant that him would be wrong.

I've found another site where someone used the same methodology to look at Gretzky's record - although using total career points instead of points per game (as most players had a similar number of games played today than 60 years ago, not the case in other sports).  For that, Gretzky had a z score of about 4.6 - and in terms of points per game 4.9 (with Lemieux, who only played about 600 fewer games) on 4.7.

For reference, Jordan averaged almost 31 points per game - Charles Davis calculated that for Jordan to have a z score of 4.5, he'd need to have averaged 43 points a game - more than a third more than his actual average.  Equally, applying the metric to other sports with less statistical averages gives a gold career needing more than 25 Majors; or a tennis player would need to average winnning almost 2 Grand Slams a YEAR across their entire career.

All that said, I voted Bradman instead of Gretzky as cricket is a sport closer and nearer to my heart than Ice Hockey.

Offline elsewhere

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #163 on: February 3, 2023, 02:51:50 pm »
Good God, do they only include American citizens?


Offline stewy17

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #164 on: February 3, 2023, 03:13:31 pm »
I voted for Ali (mainly because I was interested in what people had said), but I'm sure he's not the greatest sportsman of all time. He's a unique character and arguably a great man but his status is inflated quite a lot. I say that as a massive admirer, but he wasn't without his faults in life or sport. Quite surprised to see him so far ahead.

It's such a difficult question this, which is why people bring cultural or political impact into the discussion because it's so hard to compare based on pure achievements and talent. There are so many other factors to the question.

Anyway, no Kenny Dalglish on the list so it's null and void.


Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #165 on: February 3, 2023, 03:21:28 pm »
Good God, do they only include American citizens?



Nothing else happens outside of America. America are the only country in the world that plays sports. So of course only American citizens count, you dumbass.
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Offline Fiasco

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Re: Who is the greatest Sportsman of all time?
« Reply #166 on: February 3, 2023, 03:27:28 pm »
I think a strong case has to be made for Tiger Woods. You'll never get a definitive answer - although Ali being the most iconic probably gets him the unofficial vote - but what Tiger Woods done for the game of golf was nothing short of supernatural. He was so influential and he helped changed the game significantly not only on the course but off it too, given the retrograde and nonsensical attitudes towards non-white males playing the game (we aren't fully there yet, mind you).

But for a young black kid to come and change the game how he did was unbelievable. He was so much better than the opposition that he only really needed to be a 60 or 70 percent to win a tournament. And if was close to his best? Then forget it. He battled countless injuries throughout his career, notably winning the US Open on one leg essentially. He had major spinal fusion surgery in his 40s and then went on to win The Masters for a 5th time... beating all of the hotshot kids who grew up admiring him and trying to replicate him. His scoring averages were off the charts and he played some of the best golf you'll ever see time after time again.

His off-field antics haven't always been great but if you talk about the greatness of a sportsman then Tiger is one of the best to ever do it.