Topic: FSG discussion thread

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

“Sportswashing” is just one small part of the far bigger game of money-laundering. Traffickers and launderers love, love, love “globalization”.

Formerly construction and property. Now it's done through “war”, “foreign aid", cryptocurrency platforms, entertainment, big money sports, etc. Everything.

For the winners: Rolls Royces for 28 million. Yachts for 1.5 billion. Football clubs for 4 billion.

For the masses: Bread and circuses, so they won’t complain.

And one of the biggest circuses is football and the incessant bullshit that surrounds it. One of the worst things for me is fans that go on about the money involved as though it's part of normal life for them. He's "only" on 50k a week etc. All the while the players, the agents, the owners, the broadcasters, the journo's and other hangers on are laughing.

[skipper757]

So after Roman, the Qataris and now Saudis have been allowed to be owners now is the time to really crack down? Talk about trying to lock the barn door after the horse has bolted...

You’re right of course.  Better late than never of course.

But we know the PL and the UK government don’t care.

Hence the ESL.  Owners of non-sports washers trying to push for a league like the NFL that allows owners to appoint a body to oversee it.  Clearly FSG didn’t have confidence the PL would never do anything.

You always think the PL and even the UK government would stop somewhere but nope.  Dirty money it is.

[TwitterJayy]

Apart from that Harris and Blitzer from Palace, is there any yanks looking to invest?

[vblfc]

I will remain hopeful until it’s not fixable - but it does beg the question - How come supposedly the strong opposition of fans stopped the ESL, but we can’t get organised enough for a voice at the right table(s) to highlight, fight and stop the Sportswashing? 
Why was it clear we are “all” against ESL, but not so, on an already imbedded curse on the game?

[Jm55]

Having just dipped my head into the world of Twitter spaces I can confirm we have some absolute nut jobs following us.

I just experienced the madness of the Redmen TV guys being essentially interrogated by a bunch of fans who are pro-Middle Eastern ownership, absolutely fucking bizarre.

My heart goes out to any of our fans who are ‘well known’ as that’s a whole new level of shite to have to put up with.

[TwitterJayy]

I will remain hopeful until it’s not fixable - but it does beg the question - How come supposedly the strong opposition of fans stopped the ESL, but we can’t get organised enough for a voice at the right table(s) to highlight, fight and stop the Sportswashing? 
Why was it clear we are “all” against ESL, but not so, on an already imbedded curse on the game?

Because this country think
LFC and MUFC = BAD
Cheslea, City and Newcastle = little under dogs who was given the dream…

I seen a few lower league teams wanting the oil clubs to win, because we are greedy…
The same people btw who moan about Salford being bankrolled

[ScouserAtHeart]

I will remain hopeful until it’s not fixable - but it does beg the question - How come supposedly the strong opposition of fans stopped the ESL, but we can’t get organised enough for a voice at the right table(s) to highlight, fight and stop the Sportswashing? 
Why was it clear we are “all” against ESL, but not so, on an already imbedded curse on the game?

Because the opposition to the ESL was led by Sky and their fear. They weren't getting the broadcasting rights. They whipped people up into a frenzy, especially that c*nt Neville

[TwitterJayy]

Having just dipped my head into the world of Twitter spaces I can confirm we have some absolute nut jobs following us.

I just experienced the madness of the Redmen TV guys being essentially interrogated by a bunch of fans who are pro-Middle Eastern ownership, absolutely fucking bizarre.

My heart goes out to any of our fans who are ‘well known’ as that’s a whole new level of shite to have to put up with.

Tbf to them mate, RMTV really didn’t help themselves with a video they done yesterday. Extremely biased and basically saying that 55,000 fans each week have no problems with the owners. Also that Chris was giving it the big one if anyone wants them out

[naYoRHa2b]

Personally I'd bring back the ESL proposal, just tweak it a bit. Little heads up from FSG, something along the lines of we can't compete with the sportswashing murderous regime of City and Newcastle and the corrupt Premier League so we'll see ya later.

Need to be a bit more to the point.

[[new username under construction]]

Didn't they all sign up to something saying that they can't do it again legally? or did that not happen?

[ScouserAtHeart]

Didn't they all sign up to something saying that they can't do it again legally? or did that not happen?

Think they put it in the club charter that they won't join something like it again without consulting the fans or something, but I don't know how much that promise is worth given the fact that we're still part of the ESL currently.

[taylorb1991]

I will remain hopeful until it’s not fixable - but it does beg the question - How come supposedly the strong opposition of fans stopped the ESL, but we can’t get organised enough for a voice at the right table(s) to highlight, fight and stop the Sportswashing? 
Why was it clear we are “all” against ESL, but not so, on an already imbedded curse on the game?

Exactly this. Every supporter group in the country should come together to put a stop to sportswashing. Put pressure on their clubs to speak out against the negative impact they've had on the game that is threatening to ruin the sport forever. In an ideal world, clubs should start refusing to play sportswashed teams, make the Premier League a farce because that's exactly what City have done

[Samie]

I will remain hopeful until it’s not fixable - but it does beg the question - How come supposedly the strong opposition of fans stopped the ESL, but we can’t get organised enough for a voice at the right table(s) to highlight, fight and stop the Sportswashing? 
Why was it clear we are “all” against ESL, but not so, on an already imbedded curse on the game?

We haven't stopped the ESL. Technically we're still in it. Unless we pay millions of $ to all the other clubs to get out of it.  it's coming back in another guise.

[Jean Girard]

Exactly this. Every supporter group in the country should come together to put a stop to sportswashing. Put pressure on their clubs to speak out against the negative impact they've had on the game that is threatening to ruin the sport forever. In an ideal world, clubs should start refusing to play sportswashed teams, make the Premier League a farce because that's exactly what City have done

Think it was Jay said it a couple of pages back and it mad me laugh and nod at the same time. The easiest way to unite all the supporter groups in the UK against sportswashing would be for us to be owned by an oil state and dominate for a couple of years. They'd all suddenly find their moral compass down the back of the couch.  As long as it's nouveau riche clubs like Chelsea and City and Newcastle, and even PSG, it's viewed as sour grapes by us, United and the rest of a traditional big clubs and it's not going to matter. 

[FLRed67]

Hopefully the ESL can come back and save the game, by siphoning off most of the TV money to about 12 clubs, taking down the PL, and turning the remaining 39 European domestic leagues into Sunday leagues or pub leagues.

One of the two main people behind it has just been banned from football? No matter. You can't stop progress.

The Easter Islanders also came up with a really good idea when they cut down all trees on their island so they could grow more food. And when you consider they did it all without power saws   .     .    .  they don't get the respect they deserve, in my opinion.

[JRed]

Hopefully the ESL can come back and save the game, by siphoning off most of the TV money to about 12 clubs, taking down the PL, and turning the remaining 39 European domestic leagues into Sunday leagues or pub leagues.

One of the two main people behind it has just been banned from football? No matter. You can't stop progress.

The Easter Islanders also came up with a really good idea when they cut down all trees on their island so they could grow more food. And when you consider they did it all without power saws   .     .    .  they don't get the respect they deserve, in my opinion.

I’ve got a better idea. Flog as many PL clubs to despotic , murderous regimes as possible. Let them fight amongst themselves for every bit of silverware possible, then relocate the league to the Middle East. Wonderful.

[Mister Flip Flop]

I will remain hopeful until it’s not fixable - but it does beg the question - How come supposedly the strong opposition of fans stopped the ESL, but we can’t get organised enough for a voice at the right table(s) to highlight, fight and stop the Sportswashing? 
Why was it clear we are “all” against ESL, but not so, on an already imbedded curse on the game?

I'm sorry but iv'e found a lot of supporters liked the ESL idea. Include promotion and relegation and bar the oil clubs from competing and it has it's merits.

[jepovic]

I’ve got a better idea. Flog as many PL clubs to despotic , murderous regimes as possible. Let them fight amongst themselves for every bit of silverware possible, then relocate the league to the Middle East. Wonderful.

Why not both?
ESL wouldnt prevent ownership by oil states, or prevent them from flooding their clubs with blood money

[kennedy81]

Having just dipped my head into the world of Twitter spaces I can confirm we have some absolute nut jobs following us.

I just experienced the madness of the Redmen TV guys being essentially interrogated by a bunch of fans who are pro-Middle Eastern ownership, absolutely fucking bizarre.

My heart goes out to any of our fans who are ‘well known’ as that’s a whole new level of shite to have to put up with.

Liverpool twitter is horrendous. Most of them are on my block list but every time I'm on there (which is hardly ever these days), it makes me want to pack in football altogether.

[Jayo10]

Personally I'd bring back the ESL proposal, just tweak it a bit. Little heads up from FSG, something along the lines of we can't compete with the sportswashing murderous regime of City and Newcastle and the corrupt Premier League so we'll see ya later.

Need to be a bit more to the point.

This. It was so badly organised the last time, they gave every outlet the opportunity to shoot them pretty much.

They gave Sky Sports the opportunity to present themselves as the bastion of fairness and to allow them to pontificate that the premier league is how it should be done FFS!

Had they come at it from the angle that they were leaving due to the fact that UEFA/EPL have stood idly by and allowed sportwashing to become the prominent ownership model in England, aswell as mentioning that they were taking this decision as the finance involved was becoming unsustainable, then I think there would have been alot more nuanced debate to be had.

But no, they came across as money grabbing and allowed the likes of Sky to remain holier than thou, there was no spotlight on unsustainable transfer fees, State run clubs being run as play things etc.... It was an echo chamber of sorts.

[Black Bull Nova]

Liverpool twitter is horrendous. Most of them are on my block list but every time I'm on there (which is hardly ever these days), it makes me want to pack in football altogether.

Twit does not carry the weight it used to and the alternative is probably to crude and inappropriate, there is probably a compromise word that sums up the lack of insight and awareness of those many people who can only reach 140 characters before collapsing

[El Lobo]

Personally I'd bring back the ESL proposal, just tweak it a bit. Little heads up from FSG, something along the lines of we can't compete with the sportswashing murderous regime of City and Newcastle and the corrupt Premier League so we'll see ya later.

Need to be a bit more to the point.

Now is the perfect time for FSG to head up another ESL, such is the level of respect fans currently have for them. It definitely wouldnt turn into a bloodbath.

[Jayo10]

I'm sorry but iv'e found a lot of supporters liked the ESL idea. Include promotion and relegation and bar the oil clubs from competing and it has it's merits.

Turkeys voting for Christmas, thats why.

Its Skys product, 90% of todays football fans form their opinion by what they hear on f*cking Sky Sports. They are not going to sh*t on their own product, they absolutely love billions being pumped into English football by nation states/investment funds/oil money, whatever you want to call it. Money, money, money, money, money. Too many people getting paid for it to ever be stripped back to being real football again, with realistic transfer fees.

The only hope is for the whole bubble to burst, some clubs to go to the wall under the strain of massive outlays. But this won't happen for a long time, if ever.

[Son of Spion]

I will remain hopeful until it’s not fixable - but it does beg the question - How come supposedly the strong opposition of fans stopped the ESL, but we can’t get organised enough for a voice at the right table(s) to highlight, fight and stop the Sportswashing? 
Why was it clear we are “all” against ESL, but not so, on an already imbedded curse on the game?

One reason is that Sky mobilised their propaganda machine and whipped up opposition from the off.

Another is down to tribalism and self-preservation which pitted some fanbases against others. Clubs who felt the proposals would leave them behind automatically went ape shit. Fans of those clubs automatically labelled the 'breakaway' clubs and fanbases ''greedy.''

There is also the fact that rather than being against sportswashing, many fans of pretty much every club are actually hoping to join the sportswashing clubs. We've seen Che Neville on his knees begging for a sheikh at OT. Bitters hoping and praying that Putin's Poodle, Uncle Uzzy, was laundering his money through them. Sadly, far too many want in on the sportswashing rather than to shut it down for the overall good of the game.

We've all witnessed how fans across the country hope sportswashing shell clubs beat proper football clubs to trophies. The sportswashers being there suits too many people.

Basically, it's very difficult to mount any serious and credible opposition to the sportswashers whilst football fans are so fragmented and too busy trying to get one over on their rivals. Add that to the fact that the game itself has invited it in and has put the red carpet down for sportswashing, half of the football fans in the country want a sportswash to buy their own clubs, and the media actively encourage it all too. All of that means it's very difficult to get wind into the sails of a concerted effort to tackle the sportswashing cancer.

[Red Beret]

So after Roman, the Qataris and now Saudis have been allowed to be owners now is the time to really crack down? Talk about trying to lock the barn door after the horse has bolted...

I mentioned a few months back that the Sportswashers might have been playing a long game.

Getting their feet under the PL table by buying no mark clubs and investing heavily to irritate the fans of "established" successful clubs with history and a track record of success.  Then, once the owners of these established clubs get sick of trying to compete with the cheats and put their clubs up for sale, it gives the "investment companies" a shot at owning one of the big boys.

Unlikely perhaps, but I've little doubt that if they could get their mitts on the likes of United and Liverpool, City and Newcastle would be ejected sharpish.

Premier League to Abu-Dhabi - you can't buy Liverpool, you already own Manchester City.
Abu Dhabi - What if we sell Man City to Mike Ashley for a quid?
PL - oh well, that's perfectly fine then, off you go!

[touchlineban]

Well, look at the positive in this situation, there is nowhere else for football to go once clubs are owned by state nations.  So if football does have a financial ceiling, its this.

Not that I'm advocating being owned by a country, oil rich or not.

[Son of Spion]

Well, look at the positive in this situation, there is nowhere else for football to go once clubs are owned by state nations.  So if football does have a financial ceiling, its this.

Not that I'm advocating being owned by a country, oil rich or not.

But what if the Gas Giants from Jupiter buy a PL club? 

[TwitterJayy]

Think it was Jay said it a couple of pages back and it mad me laugh and nod at the same time. The easiest way to unite all the supporter groups in the UK against sportswashing would be for us to be owned by an oil state and dominate for a couple of years. They'd all suddenly find their moral compass down the back of the couch.  As long as it's nouveau riche clubs like Chelsea and City and Newcastle, and even PSG, it's viewed as sour grapes by us, United and the rest of a traditional big clubs and it's not going to matter.

It’s why sport-washing wouldn’t work with our club and if any Middle East bids come in, I think it would be a private bid and not state.

The problem with football that it’s happening in England and not spread into other leagues.
Imagine the uproar from Barca and Real if let’s say Valencia got used as a project and dominated Spain for years.

[skipper757]

But what if the Gas Giants from Jupiter buy a PL club? 

But Jupiter wants to run things sustainably.  Saturn Investment Fund bought Arsenal and are pouring billions in.  Our Gas Giants in Jupiter aren't putting in their own money for investments.

Jupiter out!

[67CherryRed]

Premier League to Abu-Dhabi - you can't buy Liverpool, you already own Manchester City.
Abu Dhabi - What if we sell Man City to Mike Ashley for a quid?
PL - oh well, that's perfectly fine then, off you go!

I could get behind this idea, and I've always found water a very refreshing beverage.

[Eeyore]

We haven't stopped the ESL. Technically we're still in it. Unless we pay millions of $ to all the other clubs to get out of it.  it's coming back in another guise.

We somehow managed to get into a position in which we face massive financial penalties if we join the ESL or if we don't.

If we don't join the ESL then we face a break up fee of £130m to the remaining clubs.

If we do join an ESL then we have to pay fines of £129m to UEFA plus we would have to pay a £25m fine to the Premier League and face a 30 points deduction.

[TwitterJayy]

We somehow managed to get into a position in which we face massive financial penalties if we join the ESL or if we don't.

If we don't join the ESL then we face a break up fee of £130m to the remaining clubs.

If we do join an ESL then we have to pay fines of £129m to UEFA plus we would have to pay a £25m fine to the Premier League and face a 30 points deduction.

We still wouldn’t of spent in that ESL ahahaha

But seriously though I’ve always thought it was political play by the owners to worry those at the top. Fan pressure about FFP and state owned clubs might start something different.

[Samie]

We somehow managed to get into a position in which we face massive financial penalties if we join the ESL or if we don't.

If we don't join the ESL then we face a break up fee of £130m to the remaining clubs.

If we do join an ESL then we have to pay fines of £129m to UEFA plus we would have to pay a £25m fine to the Premier League and face a 30 points deduction.

No worries, everyone else would be in the same boat. 

[Son of Spion]

But Jupiter wants to run things sustainably.  Saturn Investment Fund bought Arsenal and are pouring billions in.  Our Gas Giants in Jupiter aren't putting in their own money for investments.

Jupiter out!

Typical! 

Our only hope is the Alpha Centaurians now.

[clinical]

Now is the perfect time for FSG to head up another ESL, such is the level of respect fans currently have for them. It definitely wouldnt turn into a bloodbath.

I'd actually have more respect for them if they tried again. Would actually be hilarious

[Eeyore]

No worries, everyone else would be in the same boat. 

The biggest issue would be the possibility of relegation from the Premier League. Unless the ESL became 40 or 50 games then we would still need to be part of English Football.

[BornRedSince76]

The ESL is out the frying pan and into the fire scenario.   

All a bit sad that this is where we have all got to, but I will always hold onto the memory from 2005, nothing will ever surpass Istanbul - winning as an outright underdog against the ‘system’ with a scouser as a captain

[Egyptian36]

I mentioned a few months back that the Sportswashers might have been playing a long game.

Getting their feet under the PL table by buying no mark clubs and investing heavily to irritate the fans of "established" successful clubs with history and a track record of success.  Then, once the owners of these established clubs get sick of trying to compete with the cheats and put their clubs up for sale, it gives the "investment companies" a shot at owning one of the big boys.

Unlikely perhaps, but I've little doubt that if they could get their mitts on the likes of United and Liverpool, City and Newcastle would be ejected sharpish.

Premier League to Abu-Dhabi - you can't buy Liverpool, you already own Manchester City.
Abu Dhabi - What if we sell Man City to Mike Ashley for a quid?
PL - oh well, that's perfectly fine then, off you go!

Man you are underestimating how rich they are. 10 billions is less 1$ for them, it's really nothing. I am not sure rich is even the right word because nothing can describe how much money they have. The $89 billion they invested last year alone is money they can lose without even caring. If they wanted a big Premier League club they would have done it already, I would say there is a bigger chance of them buying Everton more than LFC or United.

[Red Beret]

Man you are underestimating how rich they are. 10 billions is less 1$ for them, it's really nothing. I am not sure rich is even the right word because nothing can describe how much money they have. The $89 billion they invested last year alone is money they can lose without even caring. If they wanted a big Premier League club they would have done it already, I would say there is a bigger chance of them buying Everton more than LFC or United.

I disagree, because there's more than money at play. If they had opened the game back in 2010 with bids for the likes of Liverpool and United I don't think the optics would have worked for them. Things are different now. But I agree it's highly unlikely that the scenario I described is accurate - I was just reiterating what was at the time idle speculation. I should have clarified that in my earlier post. I just wouldn't be surprised if that was the game all along.

[CraigDS]

I mentioned a few months back that the Sportswashers might have been playing a long game.

Getting their feet under the PL table by buying no mark clubs and investing heavily to irritate the fans of "established" successful clubs with history and a track record of success.  Then, once the owners of these established clubs get sick of trying to compete with the cheats and put their clubs up for sale, it gives the "investment companies" a shot at owning one of the big boys.

Unlikely perhaps, but I've little doubt that if they could get their mitts on the likes of United and Liverpool, City and Newcastle would be ejected sharpish.

The Sheik has owned City since 2008. If he really wanted us then he could have dumped them a few years later and bought us for a knock down price when FSG did - and likely could have persuaded them to sell at a number of times in the 12 years since they've owned us.