Author Topic: Support - You're Doing it Wrong  (Read 41463 times)

Online redbyrdz

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #200 on: April 9, 2012, 10:20:59 am »
How do you propose we sort it in-house without a forum discussion? It's as in-house as you can get.
Thats the thing though, it's not. It sits very prominantly on one of the top spots on google.

Besides, I'm not saying don't have discussions. Decent, well reasoned posts aren't the problem. The problem is the swell of negativity that comes from tons of snidey comments.
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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #201 on: April 9, 2012, 10:23:07 am »
How do you propose we sort it in-house without a forum discussion? It's as in-house as you can get.

What's the mantra of the Mods?

Reasonable well thought out words to put across a point of view.

How is a user able to react to a statement like 'Dalglish is clueless to select X Y Z player' or this variation, Dalglish should go because he's wasted money.

How do you respond to that? :butt
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Offline Finn Solomon

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #202 on: April 9, 2012, 10:25:38 am »
Thats the thing though, it's not. It sits very prominantly on one of the top spots on google.

Besides, I'm not saying don't have discussions. Decent, well reasoned posts aren't the problem. The problem is the swell of negativity that comes from tons of snidey comments.

I think the scenario you and a bunch of others are describing about Internet exposure is a little extreme, but I can see your point. As for snidey comments, people use humour to deal with severe problems, I'd rather one of those than an expletive laden rant. And we have severe problems on the pitch.
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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #203 on: April 9, 2012, 10:26:03 am »
What's the mantra of the Mods?

Reasonable well thought out words to put across a point of view.

How is a user able to react to a statement like 'Dalglish is clueless to select X Y Z player' or this variation, Dalglish should go because he's wasted money.

How do you respond to that? :butt

You don't. If you think someone's opinion is wrong then either respond patiently and try to educate them, ignore them, or if it's offensive and isn't in line with our guidelines, report to moderator.
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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #204 on: April 9, 2012, 10:26:15 am »

3. I guarentee that if things do not go well for us this week at Blackburn because we're focussing on the weekend and then we go on to lose on Saturday there will be the same bunch of 'fans' that called for Rafa to go who will be calling for Kenny's head too. When Benitez was under pressure there was so many threads on her trying to educate people on what had gone wrong and why he deserved patience but they had made up their 'sky washed' minds. They didnt want to listen. It the same now.It has to stop!



 

That first line mate especially...hmm. Have heard that before from many on here, 'the same bunch that wanted Rafa gone will be calling for Kenny's head'. Can you recall a single one from on here who did that then and are doing it now?

I can't. Not from the rafa 7th rafa shit, go, kenny 8th kenny shit, now go line of muppetry. Can recall quite a few from the pseudo-wise branch of talking about everything committing to nothing school of wannabeism.

It if it was as simple as saying it's the knee-jerkers that put Rafa's position into doubt and are going to do it to Kenny, it's a lot easier to sort. Ban them if they're on here, crack their heads post match if at the ground.

It's not. Sophists are a far more insidious problem than honest short-termists.

The only viable solution is deleting the liverpool section of the forum. ;D
« Last Edit: April 9, 2012, 10:32:55 am by surfer »

Offline Finn Solomon

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #205 on: April 9, 2012, 10:27:14 am »
What's the mantra of the Mods?

Reasonable well thought out words to put across a point of view.

How is a user able to react to a statement like 'Dalglish is clueless to select X Y Z player' or this variation, Dalglish should go because he's wasted money.

How do you respond to that? :butt

How does someone react when he's written a detailed account of his concerns and gets a statement like 'Stop moaning, the season's over anyway?' You can't respond to that either.
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Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #206 on: April 9, 2012, 10:30:56 am »
And the thread has descended nicely!

For those questioning Kenny's ability to do the job after 15 months in charge just have a little think about history, if you're able.

When Houllier took over he was charged with a new project to take Liverpool forward.  He was given nearly 6 years to take us to the next level and brought us some considerable success.  Rafa was also given 5 years to rebuild after it became clear that Houllier was not going to take us any further.  For each of these two men they took over clubs that needed a lot of work but where not in dire circumstances.  The season before Houllier came along we finished 3rd.  The season before Rafa joined us we finished 4th.  The project was to take us from top 5 to champions.

Like it or not, when Kenny took over the club was in it's worst state since probably the late 1960s (when Shanks recognised the need for a complete rebuild).  We may have finished 2nd in 2009 but in the 18 months that followed the club was decimated.  Kenny, like Houllier and Rafa before him should be given the time he deserves.  The only exception to this is when the club is clearly going backwards (as with Roy).  No one can argue that is the case this season (though I'm sure some will).  We are stronger than last season but are going through woeful form.  Let's get through to the end of the season and see where we stand in August with new signings and a new outlook.

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #207 on: April 9, 2012, 10:34:29 am »
How does someone react when he's written a detailed account of his concerns and gets a statement like 'Stop moaning, the season's over anyway?' You can't respond to that either.

Agreed but you are going to both extreme ends of any thread, take this one we are in Finn, it started with an excellent post it followed that a few agreed with it, and a few queried one or two bits and a  good discussion took place, but then as with all threads we had a couple of one liner grenades thrown in and the thread was moved away from the original points the OP was making to where we are now.

 I know all threads move on at a pace but now and then some people need to read what they are typing and then think is this adding to anything or is this taking the piss, including me!
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Offline Finn Solomon

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #208 on: April 9, 2012, 10:38:38 am »
Agreed but you are going to both extreme ends of any thread, take this one we are in Finn, it started with an excellent post it followed that a few agreed with it, and a few queried one or two bits and a  good discussion took place, but then as with all threads we had a couple of one liner grenades thrown in and the thread was moved away from the original points the OP was making to where we are now.

 I know all threads move on at a pace but now and then some people need to read what they are typing and then think is this adding to anything or is this taking the piss, including me!

Agree with that.
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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #209 on: April 9, 2012, 10:40:37 am »
Some big words getting used there. Seems to come down to... what gets said on here doesn't really matter. Well, all I can say to that is...
I remember Purslow threatening to sue the site.
I remember Broughton saying... "Go ask the media. They don't agree with you," when Rafa got the bullet.
I remember journalists trawling round here, looking for info during the H&G campaigns.
I remember plenty of posters on here calling for Rafa's head, asking for Roy to be given his job, turning on Roy within a matter of weeks, asking for Dalglish, and now having a sly nibble at Dalglish, only to bottle it because some people won't tolerate it and they don't feel as bold as they did when it was Rafa.
So, they've took their griping and moaning to Twitter and other sites and are doing it in them gaffs with the added bonus of attacking the mods and some posters on here.
I also remember telling meself to swerve all this bollocks. Can't for the life of me figure out why I'm bothering now.
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Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #210 on: April 9, 2012, 10:42:12 am »
That first line mate especially...hmm. Have heard that before from many on here, 'the same bunch that wanted Rafa gone will be calling for Kenny's head'. Can you recall a single one from on here who did that then and are doing it now?

I can't.
Not from the rafa 7th rafa shit, go, kenny 8th kenny shit, now go line of muppetry. Can recall quite a few from the pseudo-wise branch of talking about everything committing to nothing school of wannabeism.

It if it was as simple as saying it's the knee-jerkers that put Rafa's position into doubt and are going to do it to Kenny, it's a lot easier to sort. Ban them if they're on here, crack their heads post match if at the ground.

It's not. Sophists are a far more insidious problem than honest short-termists.

The only viable solution is deleting the liverpool section of the forum. ;D

It doesnt necessarily need to be the 'same people' but the 'same type of supporter'. Thats what I was getting at. I would hope that those people who called for Rafa's head like in this thead : http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=234389.msg5161694#msg5161694 would have learnt their lesson. However I have read over the past few weeks the same trends that Rafa went through, and if it continues, it will only end up one way.
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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #211 on: April 9, 2012, 10:47:19 am »
Some big words getting used there. Seems to come down to... what gets said on here doesn't really matter. Well, all I can say to that is...
I remember Purslow threatening to sue the site.
I remember Broughton saying... "Go ask the media. They don't agree with you," when Rafa got the bullet.
I remember journalists trawling round here, looking for info during the H&G campaigns.
I remember plenty of posters on here calling for Rafa's head, asking for Roy to be given his job, turning on Roy within a matter of weeks, asking for Dalglish, and now having a sly nibble at Dalglish, only to bottle it because some people won't tolerate it and they don't feel as bold as they did when it was Rafa.
So, they've took their griping and moaning to Twitter and other sites and are doing it in them gaffs with the added bonus of attacking the mods and some posters on here.
I also remember telling meself to swerve all this bollocks. Can't for the life of me figure out why I'm bothering now.

The point is the people you mention exist FS, but it's easy to spot them. It's the ones that make clever sounding arguments on why Rafa's not done well, when the simple truth is: once you've found a man deserving of it, you back him fully, no matter what minor concerns you have, is lost. Quite a few doing it during Rafa's final year including posters in their 40s, rawkscribes etc. In the context of influencing public opinion, that did more damage than any honestly foolish 'Rafa is shit' type of posts did.

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #212 on: April 9, 2012, 10:56:29 am »
...
I also remember telling meself to swerve all this bollocks. Can't for the life of me figure out why I'm bothering now.

We need you.
Simples.

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Offline Daz H

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #213 on: April 9, 2012, 10:58:20 am »
Great Post Rhi, thanks - Think I've just had my resurrection at quite an apt time of the year.

Having read though this thread, the great stuff and the not so great, think I've realised there's a difference between being a supporter and a fan.

Got to be honest, I've moaned, not on here but at the game, about tactics, subs etc and left the ground massively frustrated on several occassions.  Going to the game for me was escapism, from the drudgery of life where you could vent your spleen get emotional and let all of the crap that has bulit up go.

I'm lucky been on the Kop for 30 odd years, so seen the glories, and the European finals, and been bloody spoilt really over the years, as has every Liverpool Supporter.

I had American relatives over this weekend, and took them to Anfield for the first time, we walked around the stadium for 30 mins, had a beer then made our way up to our seats. My nephew is 13, has very mild autism and as he walked up the steps to the kop and looked out across the stadium to the players warming up his face lit up.  Took me back to my first time walking from the concourse up the steps and from that day I stopped being a Liverpool Fan and became a Liverpool supporter. 

As I said, we've been spoiled, and more recently I think a lot of people (myself included) have slipped towards being a fan and not a supporter, this thread is the Kick up the Arse that I needed.

Blackburn tomorrow and Wembley Saturday, it's not about the trophies it's about Liverpool Football Club.

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #214 on: April 9, 2012, 11:05:08 am »
The point is the people you mention exist FS, but it's easy to spot them. It's the ones that make clever sounding arguments on why Rafa's not done well, when the simple truth is: once you've found a man deserving of it, you back him fully, no matter what minor concerns you have, is lost. Quite a few doing it during Rafa's final year including posters in their 40s, rawkscribes etc. In the context of influencing public opinion, that did more damage than any honestly foolish 'Rafa is shit' type of posts did.
My point isn't even defending Dalglish. Take the man himself and all he's done out of the picture for a moment. Not an easy thing to do, but the point is the club itself and holding onto some of the traditions that made us what we are.
Don't get that wrong. I've questioned plenty of decisions Kenny's made and even the idea of bringing him back. I also feel our history is sometimes a millstone round our neck, that makes the job neigh on impossible for any manager to do. But the bottom line... if Kenny gets no time, who will? Nobody. And if we are ever going to compete again, properly and for not just an odd flash pan in the season, we are going to need the patience and loyalty that builds dominant football clubs.
And I'm tired of saying it now, but... the job may well turn out to be beyond Kenny, but if we sling him now we might aswell throw the towel in. We will become like Chelsea. No one will be given the time needed, and we don't have the sort of dough they do. So, there's no quick fix for us.

Some people really need to stop acting like spoilt brats and spitting the dummy every time their own childish demands aren't met. But like I said to Rhi at the beginning of the thread, there's no stopping that now. And I can only see it getting worse.
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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #215 on: April 9, 2012, 11:06:07 am »
Some big words getting used there. Seems to come down to... what gets said on here doesn't really matter. Well, all I can say to that is...
I remember Purslow threatening to sue the site.
I remember Broughton saying... "Go ask the media. They don't agree with you," when Rafa got the bullet.
I remember journalists trawling round here, looking for info during the H&G campaigns.
I remember plenty of posters on here calling for Rafa's head, asking for Roy to be given his job, turning on Roy within a matter of weeks, asking for Dalglish, and now having a sly nibble at Dalglish, only to bottle it because some people won't tolerate it and they don't feel as bold as they did when it was Rafa.
So, they've took their griping and moaning to Twitter and other sites and are doing it in them gaffs with the added bonus of attacking the mods and some posters on here.
I also remember telling meself to swerve all this bollocks. Can't for the life of me figure out why I'm bothering now.

Unfortunately FS the majority (and that's a gut feel) of people on this site don't actually care. If you took the internet away from them they would drift into something else with just a passing glance at Liverpool Football Club. They have no connection, no ties its just somewhere to vent their frustration when things don't go their way. They hate the fact that their other mates equally as disconnected with their respective football clubs take the piss out of them at work, down the pub or in cyberspace.

It's about them not about anything or anyone else. They're only interested in bragging rights and don't care enough to get behind the club. I'm not sure whether its a shift in society where currently most things can be bought and therefore the frustration that football success can't be (ask city fans this morning) brings mass impatient outpourings on the boards.

Whatever it is it's shite, we're only 90mins away from a pop at the biggest cup competition in the world that arguably back in the day was considered more important than winning the league by many. If that can't bring people to put aside their frustrations and get behind the team then nothing will. Funny thing is I now know what the reaction will be to phase 3 when we just miss out on the title because lack of experience of a run in will take its toll. We have to experience failure before we achieve success because that's where the learning is - you can't have one without the other. People just think they can.
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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #216 on: April 9, 2012, 11:07:19 am »
You should go on twitter and read some of the comments from so called fans on there. Many of whom post regularly on here.

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #217 on: April 9, 2012, 11:07:26 am »
you make some great points there fs.
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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #218 on: April 9, 2012, 11:09:30 am »
How do you propose we sort it in-house without a forum discussion? It's as in-house as you can get.
Sorry to come back to this, but its just reminded me of another issue (I'm not picking on you Finn, honest!)

"We" (the supporters) don't sort any of the on-the-pitch issues anyway. That's the manager's job.
We don't deal with any of the signings. Thats the DoF's job.
We don't appoint the manager, or even the DoF. That's the boards/owners job.

In all these issues, we have no say.

Our job is to define and defend the values and ethics of our club. Our job is to make sure the owners understand these values and pick a DoF/manager that agrees with these values (and at the moment, the manager is much better at this than most of the fans). If the owners don't understand what the club represents for us, our gripe should be with them.
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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #219 on: April 9, 2012, 11:10:10 am »


It's about them not about anything or anyone else.
I've used that as a yardstick for a long time now mate. The sort of posts we're talking about say far more about the people posting them than the people they are attacking.
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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #220 on: April 9, 2012, 11:14:29 am »
Whatever it is it's shite, we're only 90mins away from a pop at the biggest cup competition in the world that arguably back in the day was considered more important than winning the league by many. If that can't bring people to put aside their frustrations and get behind the team then nothing will. Funny thing is I now know what the reaction will be to phase 3 when we just miss out on the title because lack of experience of a run in will take its toll. We have to experience failure before we achieve success because that's where the learning is - you can't have one without the other. People just think they can.

What I do not understand is growing up supporting LFC, some of us have to see us getting into the finals before they start supporting. Unfortunately seems like we need to be winning before they start supporting. Where's the "supporters support, end of." theory?

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #221 on: April 9, 2012, 11:22:29 am »
You should go on twitter and read some of the comments from so called fans on there. Many of whom post regularly on here.



Thats not surprising though. Rafa got a lot of abuse...  with Roy it became open season on here to a point that was truely a new low. I didnt support the guy, he was clearly out of his depth, but suddenly it seemed ok to abuse a Liverpool FC manager and call him an 'owl faced c*nt' etc... the horse has bolted now in terms of respect. Dont get me wrong I have my concerns, some posters will consider me disloyal to Kenny (thats up to them), but regardless of whether you think Kenny is the right man for the job, call him names is not acceptable.
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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #222 on: April 9, 2012, 11:40:25 am »
Thats not surprising though. Rafa got a lot of abuse...  with Roy it became open season on here to a point that was truely a new low. I didnt support the guy, he was clearly out of his depth, but suddenly it seemed ok to abuse a Liverpool FC manager and call him an 'owl faced c*nt' etc... the horse has bolted now in terms of respect. Dont get me wrong I have my concerns, some posters will consider me disloyal to Kenny (thats up to them), but regardless of whether you think Kenny is the right man for the job, call him names is not acceptable.
No. You're correct. The battle to oust H&G changed something. Some people now seem to think they know what's best for the club and can call all the shots.
When Kenny took the job permanantely a lot of older posters were worried about what would happen if things didn't go to plan. I constantly remind people this isn't some battle between the old hands and younger supporters. But the fact is, the ones of us who were around when Kenny was first in charge feared this happening. The thing is, only Kenny could have calmed the civil war that was happening. He done that. Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to perform miracles in the league so the people that struck out against Rafa and Roy now feel bold enough to do it against Dalglish.
There's no talking sense to them. I get called an old dinosaur and reminded of how much the game has changed. That's bollocks. Any one who bothers there arse to look at any dominant club will see one thing in common... stability in the management and coaching staff.
It runs a natural course... a good crack at the cup competitions, a serious challenge for the title and on. It's just how it goes. It takes time and there's sometimes hiccups along the way. We ran that part of the course with Rafa. We got pissed off and threw it away before the job could be completed. We are in Kenny's first full season. The first cup is in the bag. The 2nd is a matter of 2 games away. We might come unglued, but we really do need to calm down and give the lad the chance to do the job. Otherwise, I bet my bottom lip it's going to be a new manager every couple of seasons, with idiots forcing them out the door before they even get their feet under the table.
I stopped going the match after Rafa got the sack. The pleasure had been taken away for me. If Kenny gets sacked, I'll probably never go again. It's not the LFC I grew up with and fell in love with already. If Kenny gets the push, I don't think we ever will be again. That's not to say Kenny is guaranteed to succeed, but, in my opinion, it does mean we have lost touch with everything that made us the club we are and we will probably never get it back.
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Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #223 on: April 9, 2012, 11:44:09 am »
We ran that part of the course with Rafa. We got pissed off and threw it away before the job could be completed. We are in Kenny's first full season. The first cup is in the bag. The 2nd is a matter of 2 games away. We might come unglued, but we really do need to calm down and give the lad the chance to do the job.

Fats how do you see god forbid Everton do win and even worse went onto win the cup, the reaction from crowds in remaining games and on here.

I think this game on Saturday is massive for us and for all the wrong reasons at the moment.

Offline Red Genius

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #224 on: April 9, 2012, 11:48:23 am »
Fats how do you see god forbid Everton do win and even worse went onto win the cup, the reaction from crowds in remaining games and on here.

I think this game on Saturday is massive for us and for all the wrong reasons at the moment.

For me that's unfathomable, this place would go into meltdown and if the media go into overdrive with Kenny's head on the block i fail to see that not resulting in the inevitable. It's the nature of the game these days, sadly.

However, if our owners didn't bend to will in those circumstances, now that would demonstrate leadership, and would naturally be a pleasant surprise.

Still - it's not going to happen, as we're gonna smash the bitters and get to the final.
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Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #225 on: April 9, 2012, 11:51:01 am »
Fats how do you see god forbid Everton do win and even worse went onto win the cup, the reaction from crowds in remaining games and on here.

I think this game on Saturday is massive for us and for all the wrong reasons at the moment.
Well, I think we all know the answer to that. But let's cross that bridge if and when we come to it. I don't think we will. We have the better players. Wembley will suit us more than them. We can beat anybody on our day. What would be a good idea is everyone getting behind the manager and the team, and being happy that a club that was 5 hours away from imploding is back at Wembley for the second time in a season.
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Offline Dave D

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #226 on: April 9, 2012, 11:51:26 am »
You should go on twitter and read some of the comments from so called fans on there. Many of whom post regularly on here.



Twitter is an abomination. Anyone who goes on twitter or a phone-in and slags off the club or manager, is a massive c*nt.
As they saying goes, empty vessels make the most noise.

Great post by Rhi. Everyone should read it, and then read it again if they don't get it.

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #227 on: April 9, 2012, 12:00:38 pm »
Never ceases to amaze me when a knob head in the stands sits there berating Kenny just before breaking into a chorus of 'Fields of Anfield Road'. I'd like the irony to hit them as hard as me via a smack squarely in the jaw.
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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #228 on: April 9, 2012, 12:04:39 pm »
You should go on twitter and read some of the comments from so called fans on there. Many of whom post regularly on here.

Twtter's only use for me was during the last of the campaign to get the yanks out.

Rest of the time it appears to be full of twits.

Suppose that is better than calling them twats  :lickin
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Offline Banquo's Ghost

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #229 on: April 9, 2012, 12:14:41 pm »
I can only speak for meself... I have no problem with people discussing anything about the club, good, bad or indifferent. I don't expect everyone to be all happy clappy right now. I think people have the right to discuss their opinions and even say they're pissed off. And you won't find anyone on here that thought more of Rafa than me, warned about what we were doing at the time and tried to hold back the increasing moans against the man. I'll also defend your right to have a moan, but here's the problem...

Rafa has gone. It's not the time to bring him back. It's not even the time to discuss him, except to use him as a warning of what can happen when our ridiculous demands turn us against a manager.

You'll see them on here.... "Oh I'm sorry. I was wrong. I should have backed Rafa, blah-blah-blah." Then they'll try to get off the hook by saying, "it's only a forum. What I said, had no effect...." Bollocks.
The fact is, the unrest that grew on the forums and phone ins eventually gave Purslow the chance to do for Rafa and bring in the last fella. In his little Napoleon complex, he actually thought he knew better than the great man, and thought he was doing the right thing for the club.

This growing discontent could just as easily result in the same mistake again. I've watched my club constantly shoot itself in the foot now since Dalglish left the first time round. The next shot might prove fatal. FSG aren't football people. Who's to say, they won't bring in another duffer?

The fact is, to make a succesful dominant football club you need stability. What a pity our neighbours managed to win the FA Cup, after going how many seasons with nothing under our favourite tramp? HAd he been sacked then things might have gone a bit better for us. But they got the break just in time.

Well, we have one pot in the bag. We have 2 games to secure another one. That's in Kenny's first season. It was never going to be easy. It's called transition. We used to accept it. It's how maintained the stability that seen us dominate English and European football. It's what turned us into the club we are. We can kiss all that goodbye if we turn on Kenny now.

The question is much bigger than one man's job. It's about the club and how it goes in these times. What we should be doing is giving Kenny the time he needs to turn round this mess he inherited. If he can't, we thank him and move on with a bit of dignity. That doesn't mean you can't discuss problems at the club. And you shouldn't be bollocked for doing so, but let's get it right...
The majority of posters who are turning on Dalglish don't discuss the situation with any sense. The say things like Shit, Get Rid, etc. And these are the geniuses that could turn LFC into the next ruderless Chelsea without the money.

So, while I'm sure you're tired of certain posters defending Dalglish to the hilt and using a few expletives to do so, I think you should grow a thicker skin and a bit of patience. Getting shut of Dalglish now would be a monumental step into turning this club into just another bit of plastic, a comodity for the consumer. But it's not just sentiment that makes me angry when I see idiots posting as if they know more about football than Dalglish. The fact is, he needs time. There's no room for sentiment, but there's no magic wand either. We sack Dalglish, we (to use Stussy's words) become unmanagable.
So, have a moan, discuss the problems by all means, but, tell you what... try doing a bit of defending yourself instead of taking every opportunity to have a go at the current manager and yearn for Rafa. When bringing back Rafa would only end in tears anyway.

Another eloquent, passionate and inspiring post to go with the OP and several others in this thread. This is the community that makes this club great, and I thank those of you who have taken the trouble to write your thoughts here.

I don't write much here, because I rarely have anything to say that adds to the wealth of human knowledge about football, and there are some wonderful contributors who usually say what I might quicker and more wisely. (Also the old adage applies, that 'tis better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than open it and confirm the fact). If I'm knowledgable about any sport, it's F1. I recall that my team, Ferrari, was for a long time the greatest of all, and then fell on a long, fallow period without championships (21 years) before eventually regaining utter domination. It took Schumacher 4 years to bring the championship back to Maranello. My father took us from Liverpool to Pittsburgh when I was young, so I support the Steelers. In the seventies, LFC and the Steelers were both the completely dominate teams of their respective sports - you can imagine my happy days. After 1979, the Steelers too fell on harsh times - in their case, 25 years of hurt before once again, great champions returned to their rightful place. Bill Cowher took four years to get them back to a Superbowl, and another nine to win one. My Terrible Towel became an icon of faith during those dark times, infused with heritage and the good friendship of the people of Pittsburgh I had known.

What's the common theme between these champions? They own and celebrate their history, they have a certain standard, a community, an almost religious faith in their eventual and inevitable success. (An arrogance that many choose to hate but tempered with the humility of having been through tough times too). They are also teams that stick by their choices, hold fast to their beliefs and build dynasties through their determination - if we do it our way, it will come good. There is no other way. They don't chop and change for the sake of it, or of they stray, they regret it and get back to The Way (Ferrari's bad period originated with excessive politicking and backbiting within) and stay true.

Great champions believe, and know their greatness is in the way they act not the silverware they pick up on the way. The trophies are a vindication of the way they are, the way they conduct themselves, the standards they believe in. The trophies are not who they are. In times of success, they attract many to the banner who may not understand, but some of them do so and the faith continues. Those that do not fall by the wayside soon enough, as newer, shinier winners draw their attention. Let them do so.

I support this club because I have no choice in the matter. I was born in Liverpool, and my father took me to Anfield. From that gift of birth, I have been blessed with memories and friends that are irreplaceable. Not just in my younger days when Kenny was my god on the field, but pretty much every year because great memories are not always purely sweet. And I saw Kenny lead this club through it's most terrible time at the cost of his health and his own dreams. And I have seen the people of this city, the fans of this great club, defeat global capitalists and the cancerous growths that came close to destroying what we hold dear. No other club could do that. No other people could do that. No other fans would believe they could do that.

This season is just the starting point of a new rise to glory, so long as we stick to our community, our beliefs and the man who exemplifies everything we have been, we are and we can be. (Let's face it, just by the law of averages, next season every wayward shot will now go in to balance the endless post hitting this year, so we will have a goal difference of +374 by Christmas  ;) ). We are, so to speak, approaching half-time in Istanbul: 3-0 down, and by all rights, a defeated people. Funny how a bit of belief can change everything, isn't it? Who is preparing to leave the stadium early, head down, and who is preparing to sing?

I steel myself with that belief and faith because there is no-one I would rather have at the helm when that glory comes than Kenny Dalglish. It will be all the sweeter because of the dark days we have to weather to get there. And the songs we will sing, oh the songs we will sing.

Be humble, for you are made of earth. Be noble, for you are made of stars.

Offline jason67

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #230 on: April 9, 2012, 12:15:33 pm »
Unfortunately FS the majority (and that's a gut feel) of people on this site don't actually care. If you took the internet away from them they would drift into something else with just a passing glance at Liverpool Football Club. They have no connection, no ties its just somewhere to vent their frustration when things don't go their way. They hate the fact that their other mates equally as disconnected with their respective football clubs take the piss out of them at work, down the pub or in cyberspace.

It's about them not about anything or anyone else. They're only interested in bragging rights and don't care enough to get behind the club. I'm not sure whether its a shift in society where currently most things can be bought and therefore the frustration that football success can't be (ask city fans this morning) brings mass impatient outpourings on the boards.

Whatever it is it's shite, we're only 90mins away from a pop at the biggest cup competition in the world that arguably back in the day was considered more important than winning the league by many. If that can't bring people to put aside their frustrations and get behind the team then nothing will. Funny thing is I now know what the reaction will be to phase 3 when we just miss out on the title because lack of experience of a run in will take its toll. We have to experience failure before we achieve success because that's where the learning is - you can't have one without the other. People just think they can.
That's a cracking post mate, especially the bit in bold.
That's not to say that a guy who lives on the other side of the world who has maybe never seen Liverpool play live can't have a strong emotional tie to the club, of course they can.
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Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #231 on: April 9, 2012, 12:24:54 pm »
Liverpool to Pittsburgh... out the fat into the fire there, eh lad. But you're right, it does take time, and a shit load of money, faith and belief. Sadly, I can't see Kenny getting any of them in the near future.
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Offline hitman89762000

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #232 on: April 9, 2012, 12:29:03 pm »
This whole thing aint how i imagined kennys return to be, i naievely assumed everyone would be behind him and the lads and we'd stick together.
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Offline BCCC

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #233 on: April 9, 2012, 12:33:00 pm »
This whole thing aint how i imagined kennys return to be, i naievely assumed everyone would be behind him and the lads and we'd stick together.

Unfortunately I called it when he threw his hat into the ring prior to Hodgson. You didn't have to be a clairvoyant to prdict it, nothing is sacred anymore.
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Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #234 on: April 9, 2012, 12:39:28 pm »
This whole thing aint how i imagined kennys return to be, i naievely assumed everyone would be behind him and the lads and we'd stick together.
Them days are gone mate. Don't know why I'm bothering but here's a true story...
I know a fella in his late 60's that hasn't missed a home game since the 1950's. He started going when we were in the old 2nd divison. He's only recently stopped going to aways as he's getting on a bit now, and not in the greatest of health. His knowledge of the club is unbelievable. The man's a walking encyclopedia on everything LFC. He's also a sound fella, great laugh, but a cantankerous aul bastard. I was watching Roy's LFC with him in the pub when we played Man City and they ripped us apart. Somebody mentioned nobody slicing through us like that when Rafa was the boss. The old boy goes right on one, throws a proper wobbler. He started banging on about the Liverpool Way, and how we should be supporting Hodgson, then, and here's the rub... he goes into a mad rant against Rafa, calling him the worst manager we'd ever had.
I was baffled. I pulled him on it. He was adamant... Rafa, worst ever. Fucking madness, but they're you go. If a fella like that can have them views what chance some kid on the computer having any sort of sense of reason and patience when he's just seen another woeful performance.
It's just the way it is now, but sadly the lunatics can post their bollocks just as much as any one else. And people with an agenda can then take them posts and work them into sensationalist headlines on Liverpool supporters calling for Dalglish's head. It's just the way of things now... everything hyped up to fuck for maximum effect. Bollocks, but the way it is.
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Offline Red_Mist

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #235 on: April 9, 2012, 12:51:32 pm »
Twitter is an abomination. Anyone who goes on twitter or a phone-in and slags off the club or manager, is a massive c*nt.
As they saying goes, empty vessels make the most noise.
Well said Dave. Bellends the lot of them.

I'm glad this got its own thread. Deserved it.

I'm unhappy with the way some of our signings have performed, who wouldn't be? I'm not happy with our league position, who would be? but you try to be positive. A cup. Another semi-final. Lucas Leiva back next season. Players and Manager alike getting more familiar with each other. Youngsters coming through. A chance to make new signings etc etc.

You have to look forward. Constructive criticism is okay. It's constructive...i.e. it looks at what's going wrong and suggests improvements. Destructive criticism just says player x is shite, not sure Kenny's the man for the job. It gives us NOTHING and it can only make things worse. If you've got no answers, then keep your moaning to yourself. It won't help the team.

Offline gaijin_lfc

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #236 on: April 9, 2012, 01:07:28 pm »
Really wonderful OP. This is exactly how I feel - all the people rushing and scrambling to find one single thing to shoulder the blame seems tone deaf at best. There's nothing to do but support the team, through the worst of it all. Don't be a glory hunter, be a supporter!

Offline john_mac

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #237 on: April 9, 2012, 01:18:42 pm »
I think those that are almost expecting an Everton victory and the fans turning on Dalglish are way wide of the mark, firstly we'll win, secondly the crowd at Wembley won't turn on Kenny, regardless. Don't fall into the trap of believing this tired gaff is  anything like representative of the fans who travel to support the reds, its simply a million miles from that.
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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #238 on: April 9, 2012, 01:23:15 pm »
I think those that are almost expecting an Everton victory and the fans turning on Dalglish are way wide of the mark, firstly we'll win, secondly the crowd at Wembley won't turn on Kenny, regardless. Don't fall into the trap of believing this tired gaff is  anything like representative of the fans who travel to support the reds, its simply a million miles from that.
I had someone on my coach back from the CC final calling for his head. Just saying.
Agree that the majority of the crowd won't turn on him right then and there, but they sure might after. to be honest I'm absolutely bricking it for him. I'd so much rather get all the shit in the world of the bluenoses than having to listen to our own 'fans' should we not win.
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Offline john_mac

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #239 on: April 9, 2012, 01:37:26 pm »
We'll see but as much as i can't stand people in gaffs like this, i generally trust the match hoing fans, especially the away crowd.
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