Topic: FSG and speculation as to further contract extensions

[kasperoff]

If Salah stays then we'll have to pay Ox, Gomez, Williams, Adrian and co at least 400k a week. Mane, Alisson and co probably 700k a week. It's just not feasible.

Why would we have to pay them that much?

[Stockholm Syndrome]

How many players do we want? If you mention buying a load of players people talk about our wage bill meaning we cannot sign anyone.

So we can't buy big players and cant keep our best one either. Seems a bit mad.

Time and time again as well it's been shown selling someone for big money then getting loads of not top level players doesn't work well - look at how Spurs dealt with the Bale sale.

Coutinho thing was different as we sold him and bought 2 top players with the funds, and added on top of that, and already recruited for our front line before the aale

Salah is so important to how we play that it's hard to see how we do anything other than directly replace him, and there's no way we can seemingly do that as there is no one close to him in skill, and we can't pay the wages anyway it seems, if we could we'd likely keep him.

WE could go down the route of buying more attackers if we sold him, improve the squad, but with none as good as Salah it may not work (see the Spurs example again)

[killer-heels]

Who is the highest paid star at Manchester City? Midfield star Kevin de Bruyne is the top earner at Manchester City, with a weekly wage of £400,000 a week, according to spotrac.com, after signing a new two-year deal in May 2021, which will keep him at the club until 2025.

Ok so Kevin De Bruyne gets that and lets say Salah gets that.

Alisson, Van Dijk and Fabinho won't get that though. In fact if they ask for it, they get laughed out the room.

[afc tukrish]

How are they getting on?

 

Digital mic drop...

[DelTrotter]

On the basis that Salah earns £1m a week then absolutely We definitely should avoid that so Salah should fuck off!!

 

[killer-heels]

Why would we have to pay them that much?

Because if Salah earns £1m a week, every player will seek close to parity.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Ok so Kevin De Bruyne gets that and lets say Salah gets that.

Alisson, Van Dijk and Fabinho won't get that though. In fact if they ask for it, they get laughed out the room.

Why?

They're just as important to the team as Salah

[mkferdy]

Should Salah get into his last 12 months of his contract and City do not sign a forward in the summer I would be amazed if they are not in for him on a free for the following year.

[flyingcod]

FSG will pay him what he wants but don't be surprised if we have the "Citibank Anfield Road" or "Budweiser Main Stand" in a few seasons.

The "Co-op Kop?" 

fc

[Barneylfc∗]

Who is the highest paid star at Manchester City? Midfield star Kevin de Bruyne is the top earner at Manchester City, with a weekly wage of £400,000 a week, according to spotrac.com, after signing a new two-year deal in May 2021, which will keep him at the club until 2025.

And that's only what is being paid above the table.

[killer-heels]

Why?

They're just as important to the team as Salah

They are not.

[Henry Gale]

Here's a question, removing the Oil clubs for a minute (PSG, Man City, Chelsea, Newcastle) which clubs out there looking from the outside do we feel are run better than we are? How should we be doing better? Net spend arguments are all well and good but our wage bill has to be considered too.

The wage bill is paid for by the turnover of the club, Even when we paid out all the bonus's after winning the Champions league then the Premier league our wage bill was 66% of our turnover so when you buy merchandise or go to a game or pay for sky etc that's what pays the wages. Lets not pretend here that FSG dig deep every month and use their own money to pay the wages because they don't.

[bornandbRED]

How are they getting on?

That’s a stupid argument - by the same token I can ask how Norwich are getting on, as they have the second lowest?

But actually - not too bad. They finished second last year and they’re in the CL last 16. There’s no correlation between increased investment and reduced success.

[kasperoff]

Because if Salah earns £1m a week, every player will seek close to parity.

As you have rightly said, they'd get laughed out of the room. I'd have no issue with them being moved on if they were trying to take the piss. They are all replaceable. Salah isn't IMO. That's the difference. Only other 2 who are close are Virgil and Allison.

[clinical]

Here's a question, removing the Oil clubs for a minute (PSG, Man City, Chelsea, Newcastle) which clubs out there looking from the outside do we feel are run better than we are? How should we be doing better? Net spend arguments are all well and good but our wage bill has to be considered too.

I still have no idea how our wage bill is so high compared to others when you see what they reportedly pay their players. Utd, Chelsea and City being the main three.

[mkferdy]

The wage bill is paid for by the turnover of the club, Even when we paid out all the bonus's after winning the Champions league then the Premier league our wage bill was 66% of our turnover so when you buy merchandise or go to a game or pay for sky etc that's what pays the wages. Lets not pretend here that FSG dig deep every month and use their own money to pay the wages because they don't.

I don't believe they dig deep at all, I believe they see us as an asset in their portfolio. A very basic analogy would be if someone rented a second home where they use any profit from renting the house to do up the kitchen etc. If the house doesn't make any money they don't spend any of their own money doing it up and just keep it ticking along.

That's how I see it anyways.

[Chris~]

Alls that says to me is that we are resigned to end up like dortmund or ajax a big club but no longer competing regularly, i want us to be better than that.

I mean this is what we've been for, what, 30 years at the point. I think everyone wants more as a fan, but how long does it need to be from the 80s before fans realise that period of domination ended a long time ago and is very unlikely to come back due to how football has changed in that time

[mkferdy]

I still have no idea how our wage bill is so high compared to others when you see what they reportedly pay their players. Utd, Chelsea and City being the main three.

I struggle with this as well, either we pay a lot in bonuses, have too many squad players on high wages or we are really shit at hiding it like the others do 

[El Lobo]

[Dave D]

Nobody knows how much Mo is asking for and nobody knows how much FSG and Michael Edwards are offering. But if we look at what's been happening to the club over the past few years, it doesn't bode well.

The wage structure and signing of new contracts was put in place by FSG almost a decade ago. Players were told 'we won't pay you anywhere near what other big clubs would pay you, but if you keep your head down and work really hard you'll be rewarded in bonuses and future contracts.'

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-change-player-contracts-3325019

“If a player performs then he will be rewarded. That’s the philosophy of the contracts we are offering and signing.”

The lack of vision from FSG on this is worrying. What exactly did they expect to happen when they put this structure in place.? A structure that is currently choking the club to death. Since we became a successful club again under Jürgen and won the Champions League we've found ourselves in a position of not only having to sell players to raise funds for buying new players, but we also need to sell players just to pay wages.

Yes Mo could be a greedy fucker who is trying to ask for an unreasonable amount of money, but knowing what we know about Mo, it's unlikely. Only recently, the money people at this club, the 5th richest club in the world, decide that they would furlough non-playing staff. A move that could save up to £1.5 million. The 5th richest club in the world desperate to save £1.5 million, that's where we're at right now. If they're willing to penny pinch and drag the club's name through the gutter, then they're surely doing the same in contract negotiations. 

Players sacrificed a massive base wage to join Liverpool and be part of this squad. If certain players have held up their part of the bargain, they should be rewarded for it.

[Henry Gale]

I don't believe they dig deep at all, I believe they see us as an asset in their portfolio. A very basic analogy would be if someone rented a second home where they use any profit from renting the house to do up the kitchen etc. If the house doesn't make any money they don't spend any of their own money doing it up and just keep it ticking along.

That's how I see it anyways.

And that's why I've always said this whole self sustainable model our owners follow will never equal long term continued success on the pitch.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

As you have rightly said, they'd get laughed out of the room. I'd have no issue with them being moved on if they were trying to take the piss. They are all replaceable. Salah isn't IMO. That's the difference. Only other 2 who are close are Virgil and Allison.

Basically. Alison and Virgil and Fab are crucial to how we play and would be extremely hard to replace, but still on another level to Salah - literally any replacement to Salah is a downgrade at the moment, the best you can get is slightly less world class and younger (Haaland/Mbappe).

If he wants 400k a week I don't think that disrupts the wage structure anymore than how the times are moving anyway, and if other players want the same they won't get it but they are not as good as Salah

[Ghost Town]

So the argument people make that we cant buy anyone because we pay too much in wages now also means that we cant even payout current players the wages they would get anywhere else. These owners clearly arent going to back us enough in the future to stay at the top then. If everytime we get a world class player they are shocked at their wage demands are only going to ever go up.

Well yes. We can't pay excessive transfer fees and we can't pay excessive wages. That's who we are and many of you need to make peace with that.

[killer-heels]

Nobody knows how much Mo is asking for and nobody knows how much FSG and Michael Edwards are offering. But if we look at what's been happening to the club over the past few years, it doesn't bode well.

The wage structure and signing of new contracts was put in place by FSG almost a decade ago. Players were told 'we won't pay you anywhere near what other big clubs would pay you, but if you keep your head down and work really hard you'll be rewarded in bonuses and future contracts.'

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-change-player-contracts-3325019

The lack of vision from FSG on this is worrying. What exactly did they expect to happen when they put this structure in place.? A structure that is currently choking the club to death. Since we became a successful club again under Jürgen and won the Champions League we've found ourselves in a position of not only having to sell players to raise funds for buying new players, but we also need to sell players just to pay wages.

Yes Mo could be a greedy fucker who is trying to ask for an unreasonable amount of money, but knowing what we know about Mo, it's unlikely. Only recently, the money people at this club, the 5th richest club in the world, decide that they would furlough non-playing staff. A move that could save up to £1.5 million. The 5th richest club in the world desperate to save £1.5 million, that's where we're at right now. If they're willing to penny pinch and drag the club's name through the gutter, then they're surely doing the same in contract negotiations. 

Players sacrificed a massive base wage to join Liverpool and be part of this squad. If certain players have held up their part of the bargain, they should be rewarded for it.

Lets not go OTT, they are not 'choking the club to death', far from it. In fact they have been pretty generous giving contracts out to players like Henderson and there is probably a conversation as to whether they should have done so.

[Ghost Town]

I just dont wanna be run by tight american hedge fund owners who priority is making money for themselves and investors. Happy to milk the fans for money but dont want to pay the best player in the world the wages any other big club will. I want the club to be successful regularly.  It thought the point in FSG was to buy players cheap and keep hold off them not sell them because they go brilliant and then ask for more money.

They made it clear last year with the super league that all they are interested in is money they will invest the bare minimum into us.

I hold no brief for FSG but this is shite talk. They're not particularly taking money from the club and they're not milking fans to line their pockets. The milking of fans is by the club to pay the costs of running the club, including the transfer fees and wages YOU are asking them to pay.

Whatever you think of FSG they haven't been duplicitous; they made it clear how things are gonna be from the start: the club will pay for itself. They're not going to be injecting money in. You need to accept that as a reality at the current time.

Whinging about it here won't change anything. If you really think a change is essential then you'll have to do something about it in the real world. Start a protest or try and communicate your demands formally to the owenership, or demand new owners - but be careful what you wish for. There are a lot of bad owners out there and very few good ones who could afford FSG's asking price.

[rob1966]

They are not.

Stick Mignolet back in goal, stick Skrtel back in defence and Jay Spearing in midfield and see how that goes.

[Mister Flip Flop]

FSG more or less in a corner now. I think they are good owners, great owners actually but this is a real acid test for them. They will have to throw out their whole business model to get this done and to be honest i don't think they will.

[rob1966]

I struggle with this as well, either we pay a lot in bonuses, have too many squad players on high wages or we are really shit at hiding it like the others do 

Roberto Mancini ring a bell?

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

They will have to throw out their whole business model to get this done and to be honest i don't think they will.

Good for them.

Rumours are Salah is asking for 400,000 a week (over 20 million a year)  WTF

If true and he won't compromise then let him go. 

[newterp]

Good for them.

Rumours are Salah is asking for 400,000 a week (over 20 million a year)  WTF

If true and he won't compromise then let him go. 

20m a year is such a basic salary in US sports - I think we can do that here.

[JackWard33]

FSG more or less in a corner now. I think they are good owners, great owners actually but this is a real acid test for them. They will have to throw out their whole business model to get this done and to be honest i don't think they will.

I can't think of a way it would 'throw out their business' model to be honest. Their business model is about not investing their own money and funding growth through expansion .. beyond that pretty much anything has gone under their ownership depending on the situation (they've been madly inconsistent with their decisions over the last 3 years)

There's a few mentions of our wage structure on here but every 'wage structure' is a bit notional with a football club.. you're talking about 20 individuals or so not hundreds/thousands across a big organisation
Our wage bill has more than doubled in the last few years - so what is the structure?
Really its just something to cite when you don't want to pay someone a certain amount. No one in the club or in world football would be remotely surprised if Salah is given an extension which pays him more than the rest of the team... he already earns more than the rest of the team 

[VVM]

Hoping it's probably something like Salah wants 400k, we're offering 300k and ultimately we'll meet in the middle somewhere.

[paulrazor]

usual of figures being pulled out of nowhere

[upthereds95]

Well yes. We can't pay excessive transfer fees and we can't pay excessive wages. That's who we are and many of you need to make peace with that.

No chance il ever accept this club showing lack of ambition. The owners basically admitted that the only way there willing to invest is if we join the super league and have a closed shop and a guaranteed way for them to make money. No doubt if we joined that we would still spend the bare minimum and would be also rans in it.

Im sure people forget on here the amount of times these have went against the clubs values and the contempt they have shown to fans at certain times they have done more u turns than Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and now are making out like we are skint.. The owners clearly arent skint they are just mingebags who arent prepared to fund us with any of their own money ever.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

20m a year is such a basic salary in US sports - I think we can do that here.

Really 


 


 

[newterp]

I can't think of a way it would 'throw out their business' model to be honest. Their business model is about not investing their own money and funding growth through expansion .. beyond that pretty much anything has gone under their ownership depending on the situation

There's a few mentions of our wage structure on here but every 'wage structure' is a bit notional with a football club.. you're talking about 20 individuals or so not hundreds/thousands across a big organisation
Our wage bill has more than doubled in the last few years - so what is the structure?
Really its just something to cite when you don't want to pay someone a certain amount. No one in the club or in world football would be remotely surprised if Salah is given an extension which pays him more than the rest of the team... he already earns more than the rest of the team 

Solution - take milner's wages and give them to Salah.

This running a club thing is dead simples.

[bornandbRED]

You just have to wonder what FSG’s strategy is, as it’s become quite unclear.

Last year we go into the season under resourced with 3 CBs and pay the price (and did fuck all in January either despite being in atrocious form - coming within a whisker of dropping out of the CL).

This year we fail to supplement the squad with fresh blood whilst the age of our starting 11 continues to creep up and with the knowledge that our attack will be at the AFCON.

We now allow our best player’s contract renewal to descend into a prolonged saga where he is publicly asking for the club to meet his demands. Clearly there is a substantial sticking point where we’re reluctant to tie down probably the most elite performer in world football right now.

It all comes back to the question that must be perpetually asked of the stewardship of the club: are they putting us in the best position to succeed?

[redk84]

we need mo salah to sign.
very damaging if we don't for many reasons imo

I have a feeling we will sort it soon as we can't exactly get top value for him with whats left on his contract. Height of stupidity if we do anything other than re-sign him now..

[newterp]

Really 


 


 

It really is - have you seen the baseball and basketball salaries? They are nuts.

(obviously not everyone is getting these - but many many average players get that)

[mkferdy]

And that's why I've always said this whole self sustainable model our owners follow will never equal long term continued success on the pitch.

Not sure how accurate the site below is but if true we have the 5th highest revenue. With our revenues we should be up there fighting at the top end of the table.  This doesn't take into consideration how the oil clubs operate. The problem we have is we have two oil clubs in our league (soon to be 3 once Newcastle get established properly) With FFP not being properly administered competing at the very top is a huge challenge in our league.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1231497/revenue-of-football-clubs-in-2021/