Author Topic: Takumi Minamino  (Read 427584 times)

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3200 on: January 16, 2022, 07:19:34 pm »
Ox has deputised for the front 3 on many occasions. I don’t think that is a slight on Taki, as in Klopp is purposefully ignoring him. The fact of the matter is that he has appeared in a larger percentage of our games as time has progressed, and he is by that metric our fifth choice forward at the moment.

Don’t think that is such a bad thing, considering that he has shown he can produce. I think the problem is that people seem to think we need six Salah’s in this team, when it is almost impossible. And for people to even rate Gordon above Minamino at this point is just frankly absurd.

Including the 16 minutes today, Minamino has played a grand total of 56 League minutes for us this season. In terms of League minutes, he is going backwards. That is a season in which we have had COVID, AFCON plus injuries to Bobby, Elliott, Jones and Origi.

We don't need 6 Salah's what we need is front players with pace. That for me is why we started with Ox in the front three and why Gordon is likely to be a better option in the next couple of years.

The brutal reality for me is that if we have a fully fit squad then he would struggle to make the bench never mind start games.
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Offline Bend It Like Aurelio

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3201 on: January 17, 2022, 12:23:09 am »
Including the 16 minutes today, Minamino has played a grand total of 56 League minutes for us this season. In terms of League minutes, he is going backwards. That is a season in which we have had COVID, AFCON plus injuries to Bobby, Elliott, Jones and Origi.

We don't need 6 Salah's what we need is front players with pace. That for me is why we started with Ox in the front three and why Gordon is likely to be a better option in the next couple of years.

The brutal reality for me is that if we have a fully fit squad then he would struggle to make the bench never mind start games.

Of course you are only counting league minutes, where our regular front 4 has grabbed most of the minutes. If Taki is not going to be injured at any point, he will have played more than he ever has with us in any season across all competitions. And as it stands he’s got the second best goals per minute ratio and the second best conversion rate in the squad. If that trend translates it would mean he will have scored over 10 goals this season. Not bad for a fifth striker that cost us only 8 million pounds. With a fully fit squad he isn’t supposed to start many games, that is the point.

Taki’s not a midget, he’s the same height as Mane, and he’s not built like a twig either. And I have said this all along, Minamino is not slow. The last two games he’s been able to round defenders on the outside on occasions. And he is not weak either, he’s been able to keep hold of the ball in several tight situations. He just isn’t outstanding in either department, which I think is what people take issue with.

They, like yourself, instead hang onto notions that prospects like Gordon should play instead because their is a belief that they ‘will’ be better. So then you give them more minutes now before they have fully developed instead of players who could produce now. That is preposterous thinking at best. We are not a talent factory, we aren’t Dortmund that plays a certain style in order to sell their young talent for prodigious prices.


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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3202 on: January 17, 2022, 12:54:09 am »
All this debate over a lad who cost us 7 million. Fuckin' Hell!

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3203 on: January 17, 2022, 01:05:40 am »
Of course you are only counting league minutes, where our regular front 4 has grabbed most of the minutes. If Taki is not going to be injured at any point, he will have played more than he ever has with us in any season across all competitions. And as it stands he’s got the second best goals per minute ratio and the second best conversion rate in the squad. If that trend translates it would mean he will have scored over 10 goals this season. Not bad for a fifth striker that cost us only 8 million pounds. With a fully fit squad he isn’t supposed to start many games, that is the point.

Taki’s not a midget, he’s the same height as Mane, and he’s not built like a twig either. And I have said this all along, Minamino is not slow. The last two games he’s been able to round defenders on the outside on occasions. And he is not weak either, he’s been able to keep hold of the ball in several tight situations. He just isn’t outstanding in either department, which I think is what people take issue with.

They, like yourself, instead hang onto notions that prospects like Gordon should play instead because their is a belief that they ‘will’ be better. So then you give them more minutes now before they have fully developed instead of players who could produce now. That is preposterous thinking at best. We are not a talent factory, we aren’t Dortmund that plays a certain style in order to sell their young talent for prodigious prices.



He isn't even a clear 5th choice Striker though. I would say Origi is ahead of him in the pecking order and Ox a midfield player started upfront ahead of him today. After 21 League games, he hasn't had a single start.

We had half a dozen attacking options missing today, and he still didn't start.
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Offline jckliew

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3204 on: January 17, 2022, 01:21:22 am »
All this debate over a lad who cost us 7 million. Fuckin' Hell!
We are hard up for some dosh. Probably hoping he would sell for 15 million.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3205 on: January 17, 2022, 01:56:03 am »
He isn't even a clear 5th choice Striker though. I would say Origi is ahead of him in the pecking order and Ox a midfield player started upfront ahead of him today. After 21 League games, he hasn't had a single start.

We had half a dozen attacking options missing today, and he still didn't start.

Pace had everything to do with AoC over Minamino, lots of people on here were highlighting how a lack of pace was likely to affect us before the lineups were even published so it's not a shock to see Klopp think similar and choose to fit some in where he could.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3206 on: January 17, 2022, 03:22:39 am »
All this debate over a lad who cost us 7 million. Fuckin' Hell!

i dont know what the discussion has been (and im not reading a whole thread) but the buy originally seemed like a no brainer but at this point there is a discussion to be had, is he good enough and if not (which i think is the case at this point - if we were behind in a game would taki coming on fill you with hope?) then we need to move him on and upgrade his spot in the squad - and that's the point really, he's taking up a place in the squad which doesn't appear to offer enough quality.

Why can city cope easier during injury/covid spells and game congestion periods (and it's during those times they typically create a gap between them and the rest) - cos their oil money has enabled them to fill their bench with quality bench players that can make a difference or are good enough that the drop off in quality isn't drastic. This is where we suffer, so every spot on the bench is rightly under scrutiny and for me taki unfortunately doesn't look good enough. He's not the only one but certainly one that stands out.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3207 on: January 17, 2022, 04:18:41 am »
Well in Taki.

Is he of the standard of Salah, Mane, Firmino and Jota? No.

Does he work his bollocks off in every game he plays, take up good positions, attempt to use the ball well and take a fair few chances? Yes he does.

Good luck to the lad.
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Yup, Minamino - he is no Mane, certainly not Salah. But as a Liverpool fan, I always and will always wish him well and keep supporting him.

I even wish to clone Jota too. Haha!!! What a player!! Played well even when he's not scoring.

But yes, I do understand some Liverpool fans anger towards Minamino regarding the - 90th minute miss against Arsenal... It's hurt, but we still have a chance.

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Offline Bend It Like Aurelio

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3208 on: January 17, 2022, 05:51:59 am »
He isn't even a clear 5th choice Striker though. I would say Origi is ahead of him in the pecking order and Ox a midfield player started upfront ahead of him today. After 21 League games, he hasn't had a single start.

We had half a dozen attacking options missing today, and he still didn't start.

It’s a hard shout to say Origi is ahead of him. I think Klopp really still rates Origi as a squad player, and with the ball Origi can make some magic. But I can say with utmost confidence that Origi is nowhere near as good as Minamino is without the ball, and the former’s stamina is certainly much worse. So there is an argument to be made that both players have their moments when Klopp deems them to be more useful, but as a starter Origi is nowhere near Taki’s level.

And there could have been a myriad of reasons why Klopp didn’t start Minamino against Brentford. It could have been tactical, it could have been that Klopp wanted him fresh for Arsenal as he probably isn’t used to playing regularly. In any case, it’s an odd stick to choose to beat him with over and over again. Again, by that measure, Keita would have absolutely no future on this team, as he is the one that has been a healthy scratch the most. But to suggest that would probably have half of this forum up in arms.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3209 on: January 17, 2022, 08:51:46 am »
All this debate over a lad who cost us 7 million. Fuckin' Hell!
I'm not even sure it's a debate.

Seems more like an agenda from someone who regularly swerves the post-match thread after a win, and instead goes into a player thread to try and change the narrative because others are praising a player he doesn't rate.

Imagine spending so much time trying to discredit a player that's just scored for your team, in an attempt to prove others wrong about his ability. What kind of supporter does that?

I hope Taki keeps scoring for the rest of the season, whilst the doubters continually cry into their keyboards.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3210 on: January 17, 2022, 08:58:17 am »
Think he is doing what you expect from a 7m player, maybe even a bit more because that is buttons these days. I don't know how you can really have any complaints about him. We are not gonna have a plethora of £50m+ reserve players, it is just not how we are as a club.  Keita and Ox between them cost the best part of £85m we cant replicate that in every position

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3211 on: January 17, 2022, 08:59:26 am »
All this debate over a lad who cost us 7 million. Fuckin' Hell!

Mad isn't it

6 goals in 675 minutes of football is not a bad return

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3212 on: January 17, 2022, 10:02:52 am »
All this debate over a lad who cost us 7 million. Fuckin' Hell!

Trent cost us nothing and is one of our most important players. How much you cost is irrelevant. If you are in this squad you need to be able to contribute at a very high level. We want to win league and Champions League titles. You need top players to do that and I don’t think Minamino is a top player.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3213 on: January 17, 2022, 10:04:23 am »
Well done Taki, needed that and really nice to see his reaction and that of our other players too, it's nice to see him supported.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3214 on: January 17, 2022, 10:28:34 am »
Well done Taki, needed that and really nice to see his reaction and that of our other players too, it's nice to see him supported.

Bobby did him a good turn there. It looked though that Arsenal miss killed his confidence in front of goal as he passed it to Bobby originally rather than knock it in himself.

If Ox is out he'll start on Thursday and we'll need a big game/goal from him.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3215 on: January 17, 2022, 12:18:03 pm »
Trent cost us nothing and is one of our most important players. How much you cost is irrelevant. If you are in this squad you need to be able to contribute at a very high level. We want to win league and Champions League titles. You need top players to do that and I don’t think Minamino is a top player.
The guy scored another goal. At least let's give him credit for that.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3216 on: January 17, 2022, 12:21:53 pm »
Trent cost us nothing and is one of our most important players. How much you cost is irrelevant. If you are in this squad you need to be able to contribute at a very high level. We want to win league and Champions League titles. You need top players to do that and I don’t think Minamino is a top player.

We cannot realitically have 17-18 top players unfortunately. Minamino as a 5-6th choice attacker is fine. Cant think of a single team outside of City, whom we cant compete with, that has a top player as 6th choice.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3217 on: January 17, 2022, 12:28:33 pm »
We cannot realitically have 17-18 top players unfortunately. Minamino as a 5-6th choice attacker is fine. Cant think of a single team outside of City, whom we cant compete with, that has a top player as 6th choice.

Top player, no, but it's about having a trusted player who can fit into the side if needed. If you're playing a front 3 then you need at least 5 good options if you're competing on multiple fronts. Divock stepped up massively in 2019 (and Shaq was a decent option for us when fit).

Minamino does seem a good option as a goal threat though. Hopefully he can do a Divock and get us into the final.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3218 on: January 17, 2022, 12:35:33 pm »
Mad isn't it

6 goals in 675 minutes of football is not a bad return

Is it not 7? Regardless that’s a great return as it’s only 7.5 games worth of minutes
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3219 on: January 17, 2022, 12:48:22 pm »
We cannot realitically have 17-18 top players unfortunately. Minamino as a 5-6th choice attacker is fine. Cant think of a single team outside of City, whom we cant compete with, that has a top player as 6th choice.

If he is a 5th or 6th choice attacker then why doesn't he start games like yesterday when Salah, Mane and Origi are unavailable.

As for the 17-18 top players of course we can. We have one of the highest wage bills in World football.

We have two excellent keepers in Alisson and Kelleher, two excellent left backs in Robertson and Tsimikas, four quality centre backs in Van Dijk, Matip, Konate and Gomez. Trent is a top quality full back.

We then have Fabinho, Thiago, Henderson, Keita, Ox, Elliot, Milner and Jones in midfield.

Plus Salah, Mane, Firmino and Jota.

That is 21 players and at least two options for each position apart from right back and the front three. Origi was told he could go in the summer and Taki has just 56 League minutes all season. It is absolutely clear to me that we need to reinforce our attacking options.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3220 on: January 17, 2022, 01:22:43 pm »
Trent cost us nothing and is one of our most important players. How much you cost is irrelevant. If you are in this squad you need to be able to contribute at a very high level. We want to win league and Champions League titles. You need top players to do that and I don’t think Minamino is a top player.

Trent cost us nothing but will now be one of our highest paid players, so his output needs to reflect that. In contrast, Minamino will be one our lowest paid first-team players.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3221 on: January 17, 2022, 01:31:10 pm »
Taki has just 56 League minutes all season.

and has scored 2 goals in them 56 minutes

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3222 on: January 17, 2022, 01:40:53 pm »
Taki is better than Meijer, Voronin or Borini
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3223 on: January 17, 2022, 01:49:41 pm »
and has scored 2 goals in them 56 minutes

Yeh both 77th minute strikes to make it 4-0 against Arsenal and 3-0 against Brentford.

His other League goal was against Palace in the 7-0. He thrives on space and open games.

What we need is front players with pace who can start games or who can come on against a low block and make a difference.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3224 on: January 17, 2022, 02:05:05 pm »
If he is a 5th or 6th choice attacker then why doesn't he start games like yesterday when Salah, Mane and Origi are unavailable.

As for the 17-18 top players of course we can. We have one of the highest wage bills in World football.

We have two excellent keepers in Alisson and Kelleher, two excellent left backs in Robertson and Tsimikas, four quality centre backs in Van Dijk, Matip, Konate and Gomez. Trent is a top quality full back.

We then have Fabinho, Thiago, Henderson, Keita, Ox, Elliot, Milner and Jones in midfield.

Plus Salah, Mane, Firmino and Jota.

That is 21 players and at least two options for each position apart from right back and the front three. Origi was told he could go in the summer and Taki has just 56 League minutes all season. It is absolutely clear to me that we need to reinforce our attacking options.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3225 on: January 17, 2022, 02:05:09 pm »
Yeh both 77th minute strikes to make it 4-0 against Arsenal and 3-0 against Brentford.

His other League goal was against Palace in the 7-0. He thrives on space and open games.

What we need is front players with pace who can start games or who can come on against a low block and make a difference.

So you're saying we should bring him on in the 75th minute of every game?

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3226 on: January 17, 2022, 02:07:34 pm »
Is he good enough for us going forward? Definitely not but I don't understand the negativity after he scored.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3227 on: January 17, 2022, 02:08:32 pm »
Yeh both 77th minute strikes to make it 4-0 against Arsenal and 3-0 against Brentford.

His other League goal was against Palace in the 7-0. He thrives on space and open games.

What we need is front players with pace who can start games or who can come on against a low block and make a difference.

Like Salah, Mane, Jota, Firmino and Origi?

Honestly, your constant moving of the goalposts with him is just strange. You do it with FSG but at least that makes sense on a certain 'just looking out for the well-being of your club' sort of level (if we're being kind). But Taki? Its just weird, you seem to have a personal vendetta against the lad.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3228 on: January 17, 2022, 02:44:39 pm »
Yeh both 77th minute strikes to make it 4-0 against Arsenal and 3-0 against Brentford.

His other League goal was against Palace in the 7-0. He thrives on space and open games.

What we need is front players with pace who can start games or who can come on against a low block and make a difference.



What we also need is squad players who can play cup games or come on in the league and contribute whilst giving our main players a rest

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3229 on: January 17, 2022, 03:05:00 pm »


Imagine spending so much time trying to discredit a player that's just scored for your team, in an attempt to prove others wrong about his ability. What kind of supporter does that?



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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3230 on: January 17, 2022, 03:33:30 pm »
Well over half the season gone and he's got more goals than Martial, Cavani and Sancho combined.  ;D

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3231 on: January 17, 2022, 04:56:16 pm »
"But yes, I do understand some Liverpool fans anger towards Minamino regarding the - 90th minute miss against Arsenal... It's hurt, but we still have a chance".

I don't understand anybody being angry with Taki, disappointed, frustrated yes but angry? I was at Villa Park for Ronnie's miss, that was the 'best' miss I have ever seen, but still loved the bloke and enjoyed singing his song. Like Taki he gave everything.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3232 on: January 17, 2022, 05:00:00 pm »
He's a nifty player and we still haven't seen the best of him. Amazing at Salzburg and ran riot against us in the Champions League in 19/20.

As with above posters, you can't be angry at a player for missing when he puts so much effort in. He's not Balotelli for god sake. That effort is replicated on the training pitch by all accounts so I'm sure the hard work will pay off in the end.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3233 on: January 17, 2022, 07:38:31 pm »
Like Salah, Mane, Jota, Firmino and Origi?

Honestly, your constant moving of the goalposts with him is just strange. You do it with FSG but at least that makes sense on a certain 'just looking out for the well-being of your club' sort of level (if we're being kind). But Taki? Its just weird, you seem to have a personal vendetta against the lad.

I have been utterly consistent in my assertion that Taki isn't quick enough to play in the wider roles in the front three. That for me was backed up by Ox being selected ahead of Taki yesterday. I have nothing against Taki at all and have consistently praised him and his attitude.

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Offline rhysd

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3234 on: January 17, 2022, 07:40:40 pm »
I have been utterly consistent in my assertion that Taki isn't quick enough to play in the wider roles in the front three. That for me was backed up by Ox being selected ahead of Taki yesterday. I have nothing against Taki at all and have consistently praised him and his attitude.



So what's the end game here?

Do you want Taki to be sold?
20 and 7

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3235 on: January 17, 2022, 07:42:45 pm »
I have been utterly consistent against Taki

I don’t think anyone can argue with that
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3236 on: January 17, 2022, 07:45:33 pm »
Is he good enough for us going forward? Definitely not but I don't understand the negativity after he scored.

The negativity is because with Salah, Mane, Origi, Elliott, Keita and Thiago unavailable, one of our attackers isn't deemed good enough to start at home to Brentford. Instead, we played a midfield player in the front three.

We need better options upfront especially in terms of pace.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3237 on: January 17, 2022, 07:47:17 pm »
I don’t think anyone can argue with that

Please don't edit my post and then reply to it. You spend enough time inventing things people have posted just so you can troll them.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3238 on: January 17, 2022, 07:50:08 pm »
So what's the end game here?

Do you want Taki to be sold?

I think a parting of the ways at the end of the season would be the best thing for both parties. We need attackers who fit with our system, and Taki has a World Cup year coming up. Personally, I think we would be better offloading both Taki and Origi and looking for a pacey forward who fits our system.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3239 on: January 17, 2022, 09:05:38 pm »
If he is a 5th or 6th choice attacker then why doesn't he start games like yesterday when Salah, Mane and Origi are unavailable.



Quote
On Minamino returning from injury...

That's now a little bit ago. Of course, injury interrupts then rhythm and all these kinds of things. He played now the last game, 90 minutes, and now today coming on, that was the rhythm, it was right for him. It was Thursday-Sunday – it's not easy after coming back from injury, so that's why he didn't start today. It's good. How I said, he's in a good moment

From Klopp himself...