Author Topic: Howard Gayle turns down MBE  (Read 12826 times)

Offline Redman0151

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2016, 01:41:36 pm »
For what its worth I voted remain.  However not everyone who voted leave did so to get rid of foreigners.  You are being reactionary and getting it wrong. As for not talking about other Countries, you need other countries as a comparative. 

Your post is extremely lazy, ill thought out and basically just wrong.  Britain is a VERY Liberal country.

Every poll shows immigration as amongst the most important reasons for leaving amongst voters. Most of the country currently prepares to vote Tory or UKIP. The most read papers in the country are the sun and the daily mail. Every time Liverpool play away they mock us about benefits and not having jobs.

The country is full of c*nts, soz.
"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football." Tom Werner 12/04/2012

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2016, 01:58:12 pm »
Every poll shows immigration as amongst the most important reasons for leaving amongst voters. Most of the country currently prepares to vote Tory or UKIP. The most read papers in the country are the sun and the daily mail. Every time Liverpool play away they mock us about benefits and not having jobs.

The country is full of c*nts, soz.

More people dont vote Tory/UKIP than dont.
More people dont read the Daily Star or the other rag than do.
Lots of immigrants voted leave

Voting Leave, reading shitty tabloids and voting Tory may make you misinformed and probably a twat, but no automatically a bigot.

I cant be arsed responding to the Football fans thing especially when all fans mock ohters for something.

Britain as a country treats its immigrants very very well. Try telling me they dont. 

Live in places like Middle East, Asia or USA and you will know what actual bigotry is.

You are very wrong.
Soz

As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Haemoglobin

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2016, 02:02:26 pm »
Knighthoods might still mean something if they weren't handed out so easily to unworthy leeches and sycophants, like business heir moguls and worse. Wouldn't it be nice if every Sir was a knight of some poetic-licence sort; an intrepid, courageous, innovating, ingenious fellow of good standing and fine character.

Of course, if you simmer with hatred for every part of "the establishment" anyway, even that wouldn't validate it for you. But in a post-monarchy British (/English) republic, I'd like to have some sort of knighthood honour still, a clean one though - an incorruptible award for incorruptible people of this nation and its past colonies who have achieved great things. Something unquestionably good, rather than something so grubby and tainted. To be a knight should mean something purer.
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Offline Redman0151

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2016, 02:09:52 pm »
More people dont vote Tory/UKIP than dont.
More people dont read the Daily Star or the other rag than do.
Lots of immigrants voted leave

Voting Leave, reading shitty tabloids and voting Tory may make you misinformed and probably a twat, but no automatically a bigot.

I cant be arsed responding to the Football fans thing especially when all fans mock ohters for something.

Britain as a country treats its immigrants very very well. Try telling me they dont. 

Live in places like Middle East, Asia or USA and you will know what actual bigotry is.

You are very wrong.
Soz



Haha ok, keep telling yourself that the country voting in greater numbers for right wing governments and voting for isolation is very liberal, whilst they sit there reading racist, homophobic tabloids if it makes you feel better.

And let me know next time Liverpool fans mock people for economic problems  :wave

England is a shite country full of tory twats, and good on Gayle for turning down their honours
"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football." Tom Werner 12/04/2012

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2016, 02:23:45 pm »
Haha ok, keep telling yourself that the country voting in greater numbers for right wing governments and voting for isolation is very liberal, whilst they sit there reading racist, homophobic tabloids if it makes you feel better.

And let me know next time Liverpool fans mock people for economic problems  :wave

England is a shite country full of tory twats, and good on Gayle for turning down their honours

The UK (England is but 1/4 of it) unless, like other LFC fans you like to mock those who come from smaller places (Do a search function on the word wool) is arguably the most liberal and tolerant country in the World. Can you name a better country to live in if you come from a minority group?

The views you have expressed here are also quite narrow minded. I hope you see the irony.

As for Gayle, yeah good on him as a Black lad for sticking two fingers upto our Colonial past.


As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Haemoglobin

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2016, 02:28:43 pm »
England is full of twats, but every country is full of twats. Depends on the prevailing mood of the times too. There are plenty of my fellow countrymen who deserve my utmost respect, among all those who deserve disrespect.

A part of me rankles when someone trashes my nationality. I'm certainly not a nationalist, or even particularly patriotic, but I'm a Northern Englishman from Liverpool, and all parts of that vague description matter to me. The specific place I'm from first, then my city as a whole, then my region, then my country and continent. It all matters to me in some way, even though when you strip it all away I do simply consider myself just a human being, an individual member of the population of Earth. It's like how my relationship with LFC since childhood matters deeply to me in some way, even though I can still easily relate to other clubs' fans, and people who don't 'get' footy supportership at all or even the game itself.

I fully stand with Gayle on this MBE thing, by the way.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 02:31:06 pm by Haemoglobin »
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Offline rednewbie

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2016, 02:57:19 pm »
can someone explain what the perks of being an MBE, OBE, CBE and Sir are? Thanks in advance

Offline Redman0151

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2016, 03:05:17 pm »
The UK (England is but 1/4 of it) unless, like other LFC fans you like to mock those who come from smaller places (Do a search function on the word wool) is arguably the most liberal and tolerant country in the World. Can you name a better country to live in if you come from a minority group?

The views you have expressed here are also quite narrow minded. I hope you see the irony.

As for Gayle, yeah good on him as a Black lad for sticking two fingers upto our Colonial past.


Sweden, Norway, Scotland. I haven't expressed any narrow minded views, i'm just aware of the country I live in
"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football." Tom Werner 12/04/2012

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2016, 03:11:24 pm »
can someone explain what the perks of being an MBE, OBE, CBE and Sir are? Thanks in advance

I think a Knighthod bestows a Ladyship on your wife, hence Lady Ferguson. Not sure what the situation for someone in a gay marriage is though.

No cash on offer and I suppose most of those who deserve recognition are proud but reticent. Those who don't deserve it probably milk it for all they can. Directorships, full page spread in Cheshire Life, box at Old Trafford

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2016, 03:28:18 pm »
Sweden, Norway, Scotland. I haven't expressed any narrow minded views, i'm just aware of the country I live in


Andreas Brevik says Hi

Scotland and England form part of the same country.

Thinking that people are bigots based on reading a tabloid paper is narrow minded.

The UK is one of the most liberal and free in the entire world, the fact that you can only name Norway and Sweden tells you all really.



As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2016, 03:37:17 pm »
Andreas Brevik says Hi

Scotland and England form part of the same country.

Thinking that people are bigots based on reading a tabloid paper is narrow minded.

The UK is one of the most liberal and free in the entire world, the fact that you can only name Norway and Sweden tells you all really.

Agree about the categorisation by newspaper readership comment. I've never read the S@n as I thought it was a load of shite well before the Hillsborough lies. On holiday the choice was the Mail or Times. Read the Mail a couple of days and it was a repetitious misery. Thought the Times was well balanced and factual, even though it is apart of the NI stable.

Don't agree with the Times or Telegraph politics but I'd rather read something which is more challenging than the vagueness of the Guardian. Doesn't mean I've any Tory sympathies.

Mind you I think this thread is well of track now so Back to football scores.

Offline georgiejones

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2016, 06:26:50 pm »
Every poll shows immigration as amongst the most important reasons for leaving amongst voters. Most of the country currently prepares to vote Tory or UKIP. The most read papers in the country are the sun and the daily mail. Every time Liverpool play away they mock us about benefits and not having jobs.

The country is full of c*nts, soz.
I havnt read a paper since the early part of radars last season as well t was obvious that they all had a mission against him;but it just goes to show the intelligence of a the voting public if they're the two most popular papers.
Personally I think it's an admirable move not to except the 'honour' this country was built by African slaves at the start of the 19th century and the compensation given at the slavers at the  abolition of slavery went a long way to making this country what it is and the rich families what they are.what a horrible legacy,I feel ashamed.

Offline jason67

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2016, 07:24:39 pm »
Every poll shows immigration as amongst the most important reasons for leaving amongst voters. Most of the country currently prepares to vote Tory or UKIP. The most read papers in the country are the sun and the daily mail. Every time Liverpool play away they mock us about benefits and not having jobs.

The country is full of c*nts, soz.
You do know that there are a couple of other threads in the news section that are discussing this kind of stuff?

Anyway, well in Howard.
At last the TRUTH 26th April 2016

Still don't buy the s*n.

Offline Johns_Barn

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2016, 04:37:07 pm »
♥♥👊

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2016, 04:46:32 pm »
Sweden, Norway, Scotland. I haven't expressed any narrow minded views, i'm just aware of the country I live in

Rich to say that, especially if you're not a minority.

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2016, 04:47:04 pm »
Good on Howard Gayle btw, top guy.

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2016, 05:19:30 pm »
Aye it's a load of shite all that honours - delighted to see Gayle take a principled stance against this farce. How arrogant of the establishment to think it is their judgement alone that displays how worthy people are. When you get the likes of Ferguson, Jimmy Saville and Fred Goodwin getting them, you look at it and think what cronyism it all is and how genuinely horrible people get them (Okay, I'm not equating Fergie or even Goodwin to Saville, but the point still stands that people who get it are not morally superior folk, even well before such revelations were revealed we all knew Saville was a detestable man). It's a horrible system and I'd much prefer if anyone connected to Liverpool didn't accept any of them.

Sure, we all have different opinions on it, so I don't think less of our star names who have accepted such awards, but personally, it's not something I'm in favour of.

I wince then whenever I hear fans call Bob Paisley 'Sir Bob'. Such a great man should never be chucked in with so many reprehensible people who have obtained a knighthood. He is well above such tawdry trivial pieces of crap, and the idea that in order to heighten his status, he should be acknowledged by an establishment that has not served the city of Liverpool well does indeed grate with me.

We should never ever look to the establishment to seek higher acknowledgement. The words and deeds that have been printed endlessly throughout history of gentlemen like Paisley is more than enough to prove he is well above all that.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 05:24:56 pm by mattD »

Offline The Infamous_LFC

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2016, 06:07:54 pm »
Top man

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2016, 07:39:21 pm »
Scots and glasgow in particular has a fair proportion of bigots for a start crosby lad. I agree with you generally though around where i live its hard to meet people who arnt little england bigoted twats.
Im drunk  but i havent had  a drink!  bob paisley after rome 77                The times i had here wernt all great, we only  finished 2nd one  season....the great  bob paisley

when shanks was asked  how he relaxed,  he said  he looks at the league table and checks where everton are...

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2016, 08:37:12 pm »
Scouse not English ;)

I don't understand turning down an MBE for political reasons. Plenty of average folk have accepted the award, not self-serving or famous people, people who just make the country run, Socialists and Tories alike.

Plenty of famous Laborite's and Socialists have accepted the award as well. Just seems like a self-serving thing to turn down an MBE. It's not a political award. It's turning down an award given on behalf of every citizen, not the ruling classes.

The "Scouse Not English" thing as a way of disassociating Liverpool from the legacy of the British Empire, in this context, seems rather....silly. No other city besides London benefited from the worst excesses of the Empire. The football club too, has benefited. There's a reason Liverpool is so famous around the world, and it's not simply down to the trophies the club has won, or the city's rock and roll history. The city remains an imperial beacon, an icon of what cities can be fro Shanghai to Jakarta, from Mumbai to Cape Town. I get the "Scouse Not English" thing as a way to distance the city from the alienation of Thatcherism and the Tories in general, sure, but from the "Empire?" Liverpool can't escape its history that easily.

And no way the EU referendum can serve as evidence for the overall racism of the country. England has been multicultural for 20-30 years now, proudly so. The EU referendum was much too complex to simply indict the whole country for being racist and xenophobic, especially since at least 48% of the UK was decidedly not.

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #60 on: August 18, 2016, 06:44:35 am »
Discretion being the better part of valour, Gayle fluffed his opportunity there by going public with it.  He should have refused it and kept quiet about it, that would have been the right course of action and would have reflected better on him.  Loads of famous people - David Bowie and LS Lowry immediately spring to mind - turned down 'awards' like this and were better thought of for not going public with the information. 

I know I accepted mine but that's because I'm my mother's (Mrs. B) eldest. 
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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2016, 08:15:43 am »
I wouldn't accept any of them, but only because it's all been rendered so meaningless. To the extent that politely turning it down without making a fuss is now considered the most reasonable and dignified response to it being offered to you. It would no doubt help you in certain careers, open up business opportunities and so forth, but that feels so cheap for what should be a recognition for your contribution to the betterment of humanity.

There are so many brilliant, good Sirs, and so many unworthy, malignant Sirs throughout British history, they might as well be classified into Jedi and Sith. If it had real meaning, it wouldn't matter so much that it was a recognition bestowed by the establishment, just like you can't begrudge a working class soldier for being proud of receiving an official recognition for exceptional bravery (well you can, but it depends on the individual case and your own principles). When it's mainly cronies and sycophants, honours being essentially bought and sold, I'd rather not be associated with it.

I hold no ill will toward those who have accepted knighthoods and such, and no doubt would be immensely proud of the recognition, considering it a genuine honour, such as Paisley.
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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2021, 12:17:41 pm »
.
Some videos and info on Howard Gayle...



Well worth a watch...



'THE UNDER-TOLD | Liverpool, 1981' - a 4 minute video from UEFA:-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/P8cGu0vQ1kA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/P8cGu0vQ1kA</a>

^ or click here to watch - www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8cGu0vQ1kA



'Howard Gayle on Racism in Football and turning down a MBE' - a 10 minute video from The Update:-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/YehASaQTsJ8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/YehASaQTsJ8</a>




Some articles on Howard Gayle turning down an MBE...

www.theguardian.com/football/2016/aug/11/howard-gayle-mbe-betrayal-africans-liverpool

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-37047318 & www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-37572943

A 2 minute video from Channel 4 News (free to watch; no sign-in or log-in required) - https://en-gb.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153974279246939

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/liverpools-first-black-player-howard-gayle-explains-rejected-mbe-24622

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/former-liverpool-fc-player-howard-11733642



'Liverpool’s first black player Howard Gayle tells SportsJOE why MBE offer was “an insult”' - article by Tony Barrett:-

www.sportsjoe.ie/football/liverpools-first-black-player-howard-gayle-tells-sportsjoe-mbe-offer-insult-97946





'100 Players Who Shook The Kop - #84 - Howard Gayle':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Os3Iw7tYA2o" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Os3Iw7tYA2o</a>












Wikipedia Page for Howard Gayle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Gayle

LFCHistory.net Player Page for Howard Gayle: www.lfchistory.net/Players/Player/Profile/304

'Howard Gayle - A pioneer and an activist': www.lfchistory.net/Articles/Article/3907

'The incredible yet forgotten story of Howard Gayle': https://rushthekop.com/2020/04/18/liverpool-incredible-forgotten-story-howard-gayle

'Football’s Pioneers: Howard Gayle': www.lcfc.com/news/2040749/footballs-pioneers-howard-gayle

Howard Gayle - An Understated Icon: https://thesefootballtimes.co/2017/07/13/an-understated-icon-howard-gayle-liverpools-first-black-player

Gayle's Story - www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-fc-news-mohamed-salah-racism-howard-gayle-tommy-smith-a8872186.html

Forgotten Heroes: Howard Gayle - www.thisisanfield.com/2007/04/forgotten-heroes-howard-gayle





'"61 Minutes in Munich" with Howard Gayle & Emy Onuora @WoWFest 2017'-  a 90 minute video at The Cinemancers:-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/3qxUS5-zWqQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/3qxUS5-zWqQ</a>













His autobiography - '61 Minutes In Munich' - is well worth a read too:-


www.wsc.co.uk/reviews/64-Players/13609-61-minutes-in-munich-the-story-of-liverpool-fc-s-first-black-footballer
www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/03/howard-gayle-being-liverpool-first-black-player-was-difficult
www.theanfieldwrap.com/2016/10/howard-gayles-61-minutes-in-munich-growing-up-in-norris-green-and-my-first-experience-of-anfield
www.theanfieldwrap.com/2016/10/liverpool-howard-gayles-61-minutes-in-munich-first-it-was-sweet-then-it-was-bitter
www.theanfieldwrap.com/2016/10/the-long-read-the-process-behind-ring-of-fire-and-61-minutes-in-munich
www.theanfieldwrap.com/2016/10/howard-gayle-liverpools-central-league-champions-the-unluckiest-group-of-players-in-history
www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/32473911-61-minutes-in-munich
www.theworks.co.uk/p/celebrity-biographies/61-minutes-in-munich/9781909245396.html
www.amazon.co.uk/61-Minutes-Munich-Liverpool-Footballer/dp/1909245399









Some highlights of the 1981 European Cup semi-final matches between Bayern and Liverpool...



Liverpool had drawn 0-0 with Bayern at Anfield in the 1st leg - 8 minute highlights:-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/8vevZPchV-M" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/8vevZPchV-M</a>

^ LFCHistory.net Match Info Page: www.lfchistory.net/SeasonArchive/Game/1209

^ LFCInEurope.com Match Info Page: http://lfcineurope.com/8081-4B.html


Full Match Replay: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubspFTuQO24 & www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC0qSKnM3OI

28 minute highlights: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrCgfDfzmSU






LFCHistory.net Match Info Page: www.lfchistory.net/SeasonArchive/Game/1213

LFCInEurope.com Match Info Page: http://lfcineurope.com/8081-4.html

https://footballbh.net/2019/02/19/liverpool-bayern-munich-european-cup-howard-gayle

www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk/article/section/***/howard-gayle-the-scouser-who-ran-bayern-munichs-defenders-ragged

www.thisisanfield.com/2009/08/no-41-howard-gayles-inspirational-performance



'20 minute highlights':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/pyzbenwDUHw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/pyzbenwDUHw</a>



'12 minute highlights':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/rFmbkmJjIC4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/rFmbkmJjIC4</a>



'6 minute highlights':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/q_nDw9FDUNs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/q_nDw9FDUNs</a>



'6 minute highlights':-

www.facebook.com/scoredraw/videos/339584996670495



'5 minute highlights' (from BT Sport):-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/5hKwGgEgZgo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/5hKwGgEgZgo</a>



'full match replay' (German comms):-

www.bilibili.com/video/BV19U4y147Ua



'Full Match Replay':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/geM3vx25yKk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/geM3vx25yKk</a>






Howard Gayle goal for Liverpool - away vs Spurs in 1980/81 (3 days after the 2nd leg semi-final vs Bayern):-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/LVvS8hUd4gk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/LVvS8hUd4gk</a>














----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






• A mini-index of RAWK's 'Liverpool Audio / Video thread' content info for years gone by, recent times, Season Reviews, Cup Final victories - Domestic, European, and World, etc:-


www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769.msg17787576#msg17787576 & www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.0


« Last Edit: December 15, 2023, 04:43:26 pm by oojason »
.
Some 'Useful Info' for following the football + TV, Streams, Highlights & Replays etc - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769

A mini-index of RAWK's 'Liverpool Audio / Video Thread' content over the years; & more - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769.msg17787576#msg17787576

Offline Realgman

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2021, 09:43:55 pm »
Fair play to Howard Gayle ,
as posted earlier by mattD, this says it best in my opinion.:
"How arrogant of the establishment to think it is their judgement alone that displays how worthy people are".
Its the people who know you best, then those that admire you, that decide your legacy to the world..
As an Irishman, Im not going to give an opinion on anyones feelings of patriotism or otherwise, apart from saying, patriotism is grand if its from an inclusive and sound place.
Right minded people know racism is shit, end of story.
And its important to remember you cant choose where you were born.. ;D
I am not a dreamer. I am a football romantic-Jurgen Klopp

Offline Mahern

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #64 on: July 23, 2021, 06:32:51 pm »
No problem with Howard declining this.
No problem with Steven Gerrard MBE either.

Offline kesey

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #65 on: July 29, 2021, 01:26:00 am »
I don't understand turning down an MBE for political reasons. Plenty of average folk have accepted the award, not self-serving or famous people, people who just make the country run, Socialists and Tories alike.

Plenty of famous Laborite's and Socialists have accepted the award as well. Just seems like a self-serving thing to turn down an MBE. It's not a political award. It's turning down an award given on behalf of every citizen, not the ruling classes.

The "Scouse Not English" thing as a way of disassociating Liverpool from the legacy of the British Empire, in this context, seems rather....silly. No other city besides London benefited from the worst excesses of the Empire. The football club too, has benefited. There's a reason Liverpool is so famous around the world, and it's not simply down to the trophies the club has won, or the city's rock and roll history. The city remains an imperial beacon, an icon of what cities can be fro Shanghai to Jakarta, from Mumbai to Cape Town. I get the "Scouse Not English" thing as a way to distance the city from the alienation of Thatcherism and the Tories in general, sure, but from the "Empire?" Liverpool can't escape its history that easily.

And no way the EU referendum can serve as evidence for the overall racism of the country. England has been multicultural for 20-30 years now, proudly so. The EU referendum was much too complex to simply indict the whole country for being racist and xenophobic, especially since at least 48% of the UK was decidedly not.



Hiya mate .

My name is kesey and sometimes I challenge stuff so here I go.

How has England been multicultural for 20 to 30 years ? 

* Edit *

We have to define what a culture is first.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 01:42:10 am by kesey »
He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

The heart knows the way. Run in that direction

- Rumi

You are held . You are loved . You are seen  - Some wise fella .

Offline Keith Lard

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Re: Howard Gayle turns down MBE
« Reply #66 on: July 29, 2021, 02:28:09 am »
.
Well worth a watch...



'THE UNDER-TOLD | Liverpool, 1981' - a 4 minute video from UEFA:-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/P8cGu0vQ1kA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/P8cGu0vQ1kA</a>

^ or click here to watch - www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8cGu0vQ1kA



'Howard Gayle on Racism in Football and turning down a MBE' - a 10 minute video from The Update:-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/YehASaQTsJ8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/YehASaQTsJ8</a>




Some articles on Howard Gayle turning down an MBE...

www.theguardian.com/football/2016/aug/11/howard-gayle-mbe-betrayal-africans-liverpool

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-37047318 & www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-37572943

A 2 minute video from Channel 4 News (free to watch; no sign-in or log-in required) - https://en-gb.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153974279246939

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/liverpools-first-black-player-howard-gayle-explains-rejected-mbe-24622

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/former-liverpool-fc-player-howard-11733642





'100 Players Who Shook The Kop - #84 - Howard Gayle':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Os3Iw7tYA2o" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Os3Iw7tYA2o</a>












Wikipedia Page for Howard Gayle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Gayle

LFCHistory.net Player Page for Howard Gayle: www.lfchistory.net/Players/Player/Profile/304

'Howard Gayle - A pioneer and an activist': www.lfchistory.net/Articles/Article/3907

'The incredible yet forgotten story of Howard Gayle': https://rushthekop.com/2020/04/18/liverpool-incredible-forgotten-story-howard-gayle

'Football’s Pioneers: Howard Gayle': www.lcfc.com/news/2040749/footballs-pioneers-howard-gayle

Howard Gayle - An Understated Icon: https://thesefootballtimes.co/2017/07/13/an-understated-icon-howard-gayle-liverpools-first-black-player

Gayle's Story - www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-fc-news-mohamed-salah-racism-howard-gayle-tommy-smith-a8872186.html

Forgotten Heroes: Howard Gayle - www.thisisanfield.com/2007/04/forgotten-heroes-howard-gayle





'"61 Minutes in Munich" with Howard Gayle & Emy Onuora @WoWFest 2017'-  a 90 minute video at The Cinemancers:-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/3qxUS5-zWqQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/3qxUS5-zWqQ</a>













His autobiography - '61 Minutes In Munich' - is well worth a read too:-


www.wsc.co.uk/reviews/64-Players/13609-61-minutes-in-munich-the-story-of-liverpool-fc-s-first-black-footballer
www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/03/howard-gayle-being-liverpool-first-black-player-was-difficult
www.theanfieldwrap.com/2016/10/howard-gayles-61-minutes-in-munich-growing-up-in-norris-green-and-my-first-experience-of-anfield
www.theanfieldwrap.com/2016/10/liverpool-howard-gayles-61-minutes-in-munich-first-it-was-sweet-then-it-was-bitter
www.theanfieldwrap.com/2016/10/the-long-read-the-process-behind-ring-of-fire-and-61-minutes-in-munich
www.theanfieldwrap.com/2016/10/howard-gayle-liverpools-central-league-champions-the-unluckiest-group-of-players-in-history
www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/32473911-61-minutes-in-munich
www.theworks.co.uk/p/celebrity-biographies/61-minutes-in-munich/9781909245396.html
www.amazon.co.uk/61-Minutes-Munich-Liverpool-Footballer/dp/1909245399









Some highlights of the 1981 European Cup semi-final matches between Bayern and Liverpool...



Liverpool had drawn 0-0 with Bayern at Anfield in the 1st leg - 8 minute highlights:-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/8vevZPchV-M" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/8vevZPchV-M</a>

^ LFCHistory.net Match Info Page: www.lfchistory.net/SeasonArchive/Game/1209

^ LFCInEurope.com Match Info Page: http://lfcineurope.com/8081-4B.html

Full Match Replay: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubspFTuQO24





LFCHistory.net Match Info Page: www.lfchistory.net/SeasonArchive/Game/1213

LFCInEurope.com Match Info Page: http://lfcineurope.com/8081-4.html

https://footballbh.net/2019/02/19/liverpool-bayern-munich-european-cup-howard-gayle

www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk/article/section/***/howard-gayle-the-scouser-who-ran-bayern-munichs-defenders-ragged

www.thisisanfield.com/2009/08/no-41-howard-gayles-inspirational-performance



'20 minute highlights':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/pyzbenwDUHw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/pyzbenwDUHw</a>



'12 minute highlights':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/rFmbkmJjIC4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/rFmbkmJjIC4</a>



'6 minute highlights':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/q_nDw9FDUNs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/q_nDw9FDUNs</a>



'6 minute highlights':-

www.facebook.com/scoredraw/videos/339584996670495



'5 minute highlights' (from BT Sport):-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/5hKwGgEgZgo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/5hKwGgEgZgo</a>



'Full Match Replay':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/geM3vx25yKk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/geM3vx25yKk</a>






Howard Gayle goal for Liverpool - away vs Spurs in 1980/81 (3 days after the 2nd leg semi-final vs Bayern):-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/LVvS8hUd4gk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/LVvS8hUd4gk</a>















Some memorable / atmospheric Liverpool matches in Europe (1991+) - Auxerre '91 : Barcelona '01 : Roma '02 : Olympiacos '04 : Juve '05 : Chelsea '05 : Barcelona '07 : Chelsea '07 : Inter '08 : Arsenal '08 : Real Madrid '09 : Man Utd '16 : Dortmund '16 : Man City '18 : Roma '18 : PSG '18 : Napoli '18 : Bayern '19 : Barcelona '19.

Some more games - Saint Etienne '77 : Howard Gayle & Bayern '81 : Forest 5-0 in '88 : Newcastle 4-3 in '96 : Newcastle 4-3 in '97 : Brann in '97 : Everton 3-2 in '01.


Victories vs Everton : from 2000 onwards - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg14854588#msg14854588

Victories vs Manchester Utd : from 2000 onwards - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=109143.msg17867008#msg17867008




Thanks for sharing. A man i hugely admire and I will be working through everything you’ve shared. Sad that he had to suffer racial hatred from Tommy Smith, and forever thankful for his brave and heroic contributions to helping develop the club.
Pour yourself a drink and enjoy watching a genius in red - John Barnes || https://youtu.be/XEJfzUSH4e4