Author Topic: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April  (Read 143503 times)

Offline BlackandWhitePaul

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,924
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1120 on: April 29, 2016, 08:31:16 pm »
Wonderful tribute.
That is lovely that is.

Offline Shady Craig

  • 'Arry's Tax Lawyer. T'riffic. Hush, hush, eye to eye. When will he, will he be famous? I can't answer that!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,769
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1121 on: April 29, 2016, 08:46:24 pm »
It should have been a routine police operation.  The fact that it was an FA Cup semi shouldn't make a difference.  It's not like it was a Wembley semi final or even a final.  Hundreds of such operations are conducted up and down the nation every week, and it's been established that fan numbers or behaviour was not exceptional or unusual for the event. 

This disaster was down to two key things: a stadium not fit for purpose, coupled with a rookie commander who didn't establish the basics necessary for safe conduct of supporters.  A man who panicked went things went awry; who froze when the disaster unfolded, and who lied when asked what had happened.

These are now indisputable facts and every fucking idiot of a police officer who wants to go on telly to spout his nonsensical bullshit should be torn to strips with these facts and made to look like the bloody minded, prejudiced, bile filled dickhead that they are.

That is, in fact, the ONLY reason they should be given air time - to make a complete show of themselves.
They have told their lies for so long that I think they actually believe their fucked up version is the truth now.

Offline RedBootsTommySmith

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 912
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1122 on: April 29, 2016, 08:47:19 pm »
I can fully understand where you are coming from mate...but at the risk of raising the ire of everyone on here...It wasn't the stand..It was the fences..It was the, now proven inability of a woefully inadequate police force..and it was Wednesday wanting the money...Hillsborough is no different now to football grounds up and down the country..it wasn't then, apart from the bloody Lepp end.
We are playing Cardiff on Saturday...Its sold out.. WE win, get into the play offs to try and return to the Premier league you don't want us in...I'm sorry about that, but I respect your feelings and I no doubt would feel the same
 .but there are 6000 empty seats on the Lepp end...cos Cardiff can't sell the tickets...and the powers that be (presumably SYP and the council)...refuse to sell the lower Leppings lane to Owls fans.
WEdnesday fans had no say in the design of the stadium, no input into the ineptitude of South Yorkshire police force...and the vast majority I have spoken to..never believed the lies of the media for a minute...Because we are football fans...and we know what the score was travelling home and away in the 80's.
Sheffield Wednesday fans will never boycott Hillsborough...we've turned up to watch turgid crap in our thousands..To watch teams you lot would f.ookin' double up at....
Its NOT our fault...I accept all the rest...it would be beyond stupidity not to..but Sheffield Wednesday supporters are innocent of any crime whatsoever mate...
I will look across at the Leppings Lane end tomorrow and I will be as saddened about it as I always have been, and always will be..but I will feel no guilt about it...I will feel shame about it...but I honestly had f.ook all to do with it..bar working at a local hospital on the day of it..and on that day ..I did what I fookin' could..as did everyone else I know.....I know there are folk on here who lost loved ones...and I know there are folk on here who were there and where affected by it...There are also folk in Sheffield who are affected by it...people who worked in the hospitals, and people who opened their doors to Liverpool fans to make 'em a cup of tea, let 'em use the phone..etc etc......but to ban these innocent folk from watching Wednesday in the Premiership again...Grossly unfair on football supporters that lad...

I've been misunderstood, I think. In no way do I blame Sheffield Wednesday fans or hold any grievances against them/ you.  The owners (from back then, if may not be the same now), well that's another story.  In my view they put greed ahead of the safety of supporters, which the seemed to hold in contempt....again in my opinion based on what I've read/ researched. The ground was unfit for purpose, had no approved safety certificate (even by the standards of the day) and the approved capacity figures were rigged to get approval from the FA to hold semi-final games.  The FA is also culpable to that end.

I said earlier I get sick to the stomach when I see that end of the ground, or see the view from outside and that infamous tunnel.  I shudder at the thought of actually going to a game there, even if 'improvements' have been made.  My opinions are negative about the ground, not the team or its supporters.

Good luck.
Victorious and glorious....

Offline 24∗7

  • "It's okay to be unreasonable; it's one of the ways you grow!" - Jim Sharman.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,489
  • Loves to check his log!
    • 'Soul Bearing' - a very personal blog.
  • Super Title: Guru Jim
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1123 on: April 29, 2016, 09:08:45 pm »
I can fully understand where you are coming from mate...but at the risk of raising the ire of everyone on here...It wasn't the stand..It was the fences..
Errr.....no.....it was also the stand and access to it and in fact the whole ground - the jury has made its findings on that front and they are in the public domain, it wasn't just the fences.

Please read the extensive list of breaches to the Green Guide (you can find them on the site www.hfdinfo.com) that SWFC was woefully guilty of for a very long time.

Please don't post opinion again until you have read up on everything.

We appreciate that SWFC supporters might feel the need to defend themselves and/or their ground if they feel unfairly criticised but we are steadfast in adhering to the need to temper our feelings with the need to comply with the law.

If any RAWKite oversteps the mark with you, feel free to report to mod and we will deal with it in the most appropriate manner according to the circumstances. Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 09:13:13 pm by 24/7 »
"Love does not claim possession, but gives freedom." - Rabindranath Tagore.

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,413
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1124 on: April 29, 2016, 09:46:53 pm »
They just can't let it go. Scum.

Retired police inspector: I disagree with Hillsborough inquest findings - ITV News
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-04-29/retired-police-officer-i-disagree-with-hillsborough-inquest-findings/
WOW, heard all that sh.. for the last 2 yrs. that goes well beyond opinion. sickening.
getnorthern

Even I haven’t had a blowjob in the office. And I work from home.

Offline 12C

  • aka 54F
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,600
  • “The Ribbons are Red”
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1125 on: April 29, 2016, 09:54:26 pm »
I can fully understand where you are coming from mate...but at the risk of raising the ire of everyone on here...It wasn't the stand..It was the fences..It was the, now proven inability of a woefully inadequate police force..and it was Wednesday wanting the money...Hillsborough is no different now to football grounds up and down the country..it wasn't then, apart from the bloody Lepp end.
We are playing Cardiff on Saturday...Its sold out.. WE win, get into the play offs to try and return to the Premier league you don't want us in...I'm sorry about that, but I respect your feelings and I no doubt would feel the same
 .but there are 6000 empty seats on the Lepp end...cos Cardiff can't sell the tickets...and the powers that be (presumably SYP and the council)...refuse to sell the lower Leppings lane to Owls fans.
WEdnesday fans had no say in the design of the stadium, no input into the ineptitude of South Yorkshire police force...and the vast majority I have spoken to..never believed the lies of the media for a minute...Because we are football fans...and we know what the score was travelling home and away in the 80's.
Sheffield Wednesday fans will never boycott Hillsborough...we've turned up to watch turgid crap in our thousands..To watch teams you lot would f.ookin' double up at....
Its NOT our fault...I accept all the rest...it would be beyond stupidity not to..but Sheffield Wednesday supporters are innocent of any crime whatsoever mate...
I will look across at the Leppings Lane end tomorrow and I will be as saddened about it as I always have been, and always will be..but I will feel no guilt about it...I will feel shame about it...but I honestly had f.ook all to do with it..bar working at a local hospital on the day of it..and on that day ..I did what I fookin' could..as did everyone else I know.....I know there are folk on here who lost loved ones...and I know there are folk on here who were there and where affected by it...There are also folk in Sheffield who are affected by it...people who worked in the hospitals, and people who opened their doors to Liverpool fans to make 'em a cup of tea, let 'em use the phone..etc etc......but to ban these innocent folk from watching Wednesday in the Premiership again...Grossly unfair on football supporters that lad...
The Sheffield folk were amazing in the hours afterwards, and I will always be grateful for the humanity they showed. The fact remains SWFC were culpable. Whether it was a shitty stadium, with no safety certificate, harking back to the flat cap era, or  the fact that on the day they sold the seats allocated for the Ambulance officers, making them stand in the tunnel area. As an organisation, they were part of the problem. They have been proven to be liable for responsibility for unlawful killing.
"I want to build a team that's invincible, so that they have to send a team from bloody Mars to beat us."

Offline jimbo196843

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 796
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1126 on: April 29, 2016, 10:29:25 pm »
Just watched a programme on Anne Williams on BBC. What a truly amazing lady, and what an unbelievable cover-up.
We live in a country where we are fed lies, robbed by the people in power with high taxes and low incomes. She and the other 95 families have taken on the establishment and wiped the floor with them.

Offline Millie

  • Athens Airport Queen. Dude, never mind my car, where's my hand sanitiser?!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,634
  • IFWT
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1127 on: April 29, 2016, 10:41:16 pm »
just watched the ESPN documentary - a very hard watch but a must watch.  Harrowing to say the least.
"If you can't say anything nice, don't say nothing at all"  Thumper (1942)

Justice for the 96

I'm a Believer

Offline FlashingBlade

  • Organised a piss up in a brewery. Ended up in his pants with a KFC bucket. Future MP. Eats only Fish Heads and Tails. Can't spell 'DOMUM'. Now has no balls.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,184
  • From a Shankly Boy to a Klopp Man
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1128 on: April 29, 2016, 11:02:13 pm »
David Sumner has no where to go. To live your life predicated by a lie, one which you contributed to its creation  and repeated over time, means its impossible to retract that position...this is a lost man, there are many like him, all he can do is repeat the lie, and live in denial...and there will be plenty who will give him succour.


Offline MichaelA

  • MasterBaker, honey-trapper and 'concerned neighbour'. Beyond The Pale. Vermin on the ridiculous. Would love to leave Ashley Cole gasping for air. Dupe Snoop Extraordinaire. RAWK MARTYR #1. The proud owner of a new lower case a. Mickey Two Sheds.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 29,350
  • At the Academy
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1129 on: April 29, 2016, 11:13:36 pm »
I can fully understand where you are coming from mate...but at the risk of raising the ire of everyone on here...It wasn't the stand..It was the fences..It was the, now proven inability of a woefully inadequate police force..and it was Wednesday wanting the money...Hillsborough is no different now to football grounds up and down the country..it wasn't then, apart from the bloody Lepp end.
We are playing Cardiff on Saturday...Its sold out.. WE win, get into the play offs to try and return to the Premier league you don't want us in...I'm sorry about that, but I respect your feelings and I no doubt would feel the same
 .but there are 6000 empty seats on the Lepp end...cos Cardiff can't sell the tickets...and the powers that be (presumably SYP and the council)...refuse to sell the lower Leppings lane to Owls fans.
WEdnesday fans had no say in the design of the stadium, no input into the ineptitude of South Yorkshire police force...and the vast majority I have spoken to..never believed the lies of the media for a minute...Because we are football fans...and we know what the score was travelling home and away in the 80's.
Sheffield Wednesday fans will never boycott Hillsborough...we've turned up to watch turgid crap in our thousands..To watch teams you lot would f.ookin' double up at....
Its NOT our fault...I accept all the rest...it would be beyond stupidity not to..but Sheffield Wednesday supporters are innocent of any crime whatsoever mate...
I will look across at the Leppings Lane end tomorrow and I will be as saddened about it as I always have been, and always will be..but I will feel no guilt about it...I will feel shame about it...but I honestly had f.ook all to do with it..bar working at a local hospital on the day of it..and on that day ..I did what I fookin' could..as did everyone else I know.....I know there are folk on here who lost loved ones...and I know there are folk on here who were there and where affected by it...There are also folk in Sheffield who are affected by it...people who worked in the hospitals, and people who opened their doors to Liverpool fans to make 'em a cup of tea, let 'em use the phone..etc etc......but to ban these innocent folk from watching Wednesday in the Premiership again...Grossly unfair on football supporters that lad...


I have already pointed out to you that Eastwoods - who designed the stand - were found culpable at the inquests, and again, as previously posted, there is plenty of evidence in the public domain to demonstrate the inadequacy of the stand. Please check your facts carefully before you post again, we will not tolerate these mistruths being repeated. Thanks.

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,413
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1130 on: April 29, 2016, 11:22:30 pm »
David Sumner has no where to go. To live your life predicated by a lie, one which you contributed to its creation  and repeated over time, means its impossible to retract that position...this is a lost man, there are many like him, all he can do is repeat the lie, and live in denial...and there will be plenty who will give him succour.
It shocked me, I won't go into his actions on the day or his ludicrous but dangerous accusations in the video. it's the fact that people with his logic and intelligence reached such a powerful position in the SYP. if he used that sort of logic and intelligence to think the jury came to the wrong decision then just how badly did he police throughout his career, the cock ups must be horrendous.
He's ignored all the proof and evidence. anyone who followed the inquest will know the independent police witness not only confirmed what we knew he went a lot lot further, his criticism of Duckenfield was scathing.
getnorthern

Even I haven’t had a blowjob in the office. And I work from home.

Offline gregorio

  • Loves Chelsea's staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,987
  • At this particular moment in time
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1131 on: April 29, 2016, 11:39:38 pm »
They just can't let it go. Scum.

Retired police inspector: I disagree with Hillsborough inquest findings - ITV News
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-04-29/retired-police-officer-i-disagree-with-hillsborough-inquest-findings/

Strange that ITV give him airtime
'When they start singing 'You’ll Never Walk Alone' my eyes start to water. There have been times when I’ve actually been crying while I’ve been playing'

Offline Jimmy Conway

  • Look at me, never rat on your friends and always keep your mouth shut
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,952
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1132 on: April 29, 2016, 11:40:21 pm »
So SYP hired a new Deputy Chief Constable, even though they knew she was under investigation for her time at GMP? MENTAL!


Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,413
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1133 on: April 30, 2016, 12:29:39 am »
Strange that ITV give him airtime
I never watched it on tv only the short clip video. find it strange ITV never had anyone in the production who knows he is talking sh..to stop it airing.
Nobody's trying to stop free speech here but at least get someone on who wouldn't be shot down in flames within 2 minutes when speaking to someone who actually knows the facts.
Bang any old sh..on the show and lets call it balance.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 12:31:12 am by oldfordie »
getnorthern

Even I haven’t had a blowjob in the office. And I work from home.

Offline mersey_paradiso

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,027
  • Liverpool's where I belong
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1134 on: April 30, 2016, 04:36:12 am »
They just can't let it go. Scum.

Retired police inspector: I disagree with Hillsborough inquest findings - ITV News
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-04-29/retired-police-officer-i-disagree-with-hillsborough-inquest-findings/
Check his statement
He was nowhere near the Leppings lane end until the shit had hit the fan. He was down at the Kop end. So is well qualified to talk about what happened outside the gates. Yeah right. He is subtle though. Forest fans behaved, only 2 horses needed.etc. Yet if you read the statements of fans in the Kop, he is spouting utter shit

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/SYP000074900001.pdf

Fucking prick.

Whether the fans were late or not the fact is they should still be able to deal with the situation easily either way. Can't believe Granada are airing this shite.

Quote
He said the Nottingham Forest supporters were in the ground on time by 2.45pm on the day of the tragedy, while by 2.50pm, there were still dozens of supporters entering the ground towards the Liverpool supporters' turnstiles - a fact he suggests contributed to the disaster."They've all been asked to be in the ground 15 minutes before kick-off at the very latest. Why didn't they do that?"


Also , it was nothing to with the fact that Forest fans had about 60 turnstiles to enter , compared to 23 or so for Liverpool fans in a bottleneck access area was it you senile old prick !
RIP Alex Jarmay .                                           Justice  for the 97 YNWA

Mr Alex Ferguson on Anfield after St Etienne 77 : "I didn't walk away from the ground after the game, I floated out. I had been caught up in the most exciting football atmosphere I have ever experienced...these Liverpool fans support with PASSION"

Offline marko35s

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 950
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1135 on: April 30, 2016, 07:30:08 am »
Fair enough comments...I was simply trying to answer the lad who proposed bulldozing the place, boycotting the place and never wanting to see Wednesday in the Prem...as I said I totally understand his feelings and would hope he would change his mind in time...If I mispoke about the structural deficiencies in the ground I wholeheartedly apologise...I did not know reading the reports was a pre requisite to posting an opinion...I can see it probably should be and I spoke with a lack of the facts rather than  a willful intention of ignoring them.
I didn't come on here to try to defend either the club, SYP or any of the other parties involved in the travesty...I came on here as an ordinary football supporter
to say I was happy that justice had been done..not to peddle excuses .
As an ordinary football fan I hope I would be forgiven for not being  as acquainted with the facts as most on here are...So that makes it rather like walking on eggshells, probably more so for an Owls fan.
I have no hidden motive...I can see why my words are probably scrutinised with a sceptical eye...Its only natural and I would probably do the same myself.
For those waiting for me to damn the verdict with faint praise, or to trot out the odd lame excuse, I'm afraid you will be disappointed...Even from this side of The Pennines it can be seen that a gross injustice is finally being put right.
All that said I see there are some who would rather I didn't post...thats fair enough...if thats the general feel;ing, I'll bow out with no hard feelings at all on this side, as I could have been greeted with open hostility, but wasn't.
So I'll wish you all the best in the future, and if the lad with the bulldozer changes his mind in the future the first pint in the Horse and Jockey is on me...should we ever reach the promised land
P.S
Good luck in the...whatever its called...I still call it the Cup winners cup, but I'm a bit of a dinosaur...

I don't think the bit in bold is really true it's nice to get the views, and hopefully support, of other clubs fans but as you said this is a hell of a sensitive subject that we all need to be aware of when posting.

Offline Bluelagos

  • Twinned with Redouagadougou. ITFC Fan but LFC Legend.
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 940
  • Follow the town, up or down....ok, usually down
    • Hillsborough diaries.
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1136 on: April 30, 2016, 07:35:56 am »
Not reading the Times ever again.

Got home late Thursday.   Today I phoned up and cancelled my subscription.   Quite an amusing conversation where they ask for your observations of xyz - yeah, that's really good, I like x, I like y....

Finally, a bit bemused, she asks me why am I cancelling then?   Simply told her the paper's failure to adequately cover the biggest miscarriage of justice in British history meant I would not now, or ever, give one penny to any element of the Murdoch empire again.  Not a penny.   And I won't.   :wanker

Offline DK

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,281
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1137 on: April 30, 2016, 08:10:11 am »
Same.  Cancelled my subscription of The Times on Wednesday.  Upon the mention of Hillsborough the guy on the phone went into overdrive to reassure me about all the things they were doing (editorials, spreads etc). This was all from a script of course but that's good because it shows the volume of calls they had received.

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 42,771
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1138 on: April 30, 2016, 08:37:05 am »
When you're from the same stable as The Scum, the shit smells the same.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline davidsteventon

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,480
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1139 on: April 30, 2016, 09:56:59 am »
Could anyone tell me please.

How many jurors gave their yes/no for each of the questions and specifically the important unlawful question.

Thank you.

Offline Kashinoda

  • More broken biscuits than made of crisps
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,115
  • ....mmm
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1140 on: April 30, 2016, 10:03:19 am »
Could anyone tell me please.

How many jurors gave their yes/no for each of the questions and specifically the important unlawful question.

Thank you.

All were unanimous, unlawful killing was a majority (7 from 9)
:D

Offline davidsteventon

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,480
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1141 on: April 30, 2016, 10:04:24 am »
Thank you.

Offline Pepe Reina Is Rafas Son

  • This must be Pepe's Mother, who else would know?
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,550
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1142 on: April 30, 2016, 11:32:11 am »
Quote
Hillsborough inquest verdict Liverpool’s finest hour

Certain numbers have, through time and repetition, been carved into the Hillsborough tragedy. April 15th, 1989. 54,000. Six minutes. 96. 3.15pm. 27 years.

Anyone who has followed the extraordinary pilgrimage of the Hillsborough families will know those numbers by heart. But among the rainstorm of details published after this week’s inquest in Liverpool was the fact it cost six pounds to get into that FA Cup semi-final.

In a small way, it said so much about the utter transformation of English football since that terrible Saturday when the victims, living and dead, were not just betrayed and besmirched by the authorities responsible for their safety but, in the days, weeks and decades afterwards by the shapers of English society. Now that the full evidence has come to light along with the verdict that victims were just that; innocent people unlawfully killed, it seems unthinkable the Hillsborough families might not have heard the truth told. Of course, it was far from inevitable.

The powerful and dignified evening vigil in St George’s Square on Wednesday begged the question: how many cities would have had the resilience and sense of solidarity to see this through?

In the end, the push for justice became too big to ignore. But go back to 1989, when the authorities were actively trying to place the burden of responsibility onto the victims and the fans. Go back to the meeting of two Margarets and you get an inkling of what the relatives were facing into. Margaret Aspinall was a mother grieving the death of her teenage son James – Hillsborough was his first Liverpool away game – when she met Margaret Thatcher, the British prime minister. It must have taken some gumption for Mrs Aspinall, after hearing Thatcher’s assurances there were sufficient police officers on duty at Hillsborough that afternoon to ask: Please tell me what they were doing.
“Their job, my dear, their job.”

Dismissals
There is something contained within the airiness of that dismissal which screams out the fact Liverpool was regarded as a second-class city by the ruling class. Hillsborough occurred just eight years after the Toxteth riots; just eight years after then chancellor Geoffrey Howe had written to the PM suggesting governmental investment in the city was futile: that “the option of managed decline is one we should not forget altogether. We must not expend all our limited resources in trying to make water flow uphill”.

Mrs Thatcher returned to Downing Street after her encounter with Mrs Aspinall, who presumably returned to her home and her heartbreak. Mrs Aspinall and the other relatives were supposed to accept their lot. The brutally insensitive treatment of victims and relatives in the hours after the tragedy helped to reinforce the impression they didn’t matter.

The years of official stonewalling and lies; the infamous Sun report and the suppression of evidence forced the victims’ loved ones to relive that day. They have endured a living hell. As one relative said: “I don’t live, I exist”. There must have been times when it would have been easier to crumble, to quit.

And it is worth noting the passage on Liverpool in the editorial in the Spectator when it was edited by would-be Tory leader Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, and circulating again in recent days. “A combination of economic misfortune – its docks were, fundamentally, on the wrong side of England when Britain entered what is now the European Union – and an excessive predilection for welfarism have created a peculiar, and deeply unattractive psyche, among many Liverpudlians. They see themselves whenever possible as victims, and resent their victim status; yet at the same time they wallow in it. The deaths of more than 50 Liverpool at Hillsborough in 1989 was undeniably a greater tragedy than a single death but that is no excuse for Liverpool’s failure to acknowledge, even to this day, the part played in the disaster by drunken fans at the back of the crowd who mindlessly tried to fight their way into the ground that Saturday afternoon. The police became a convenient scapegoat, and the Sun a whipping-boy, for daring, albeit in a tasteless fashion, to hint at the wider causes of the incident . . .”

Johnson was reprimanded and later apologised. But so what? That was written in 2004, by which time it was blatantly clear Hillsborough has been subject to an orchestrated cover-up. And it might have stayed covered except for the persistent voices of the Hillsborough relatives.

Liverpool occupies a curious place in England. It is the birthplace of Gladstone, one of the most influential British prime ministers. It gave the world one of the most charismatic front men of all time and, of course, the Fab Four. It is the home of one of England’s move evocative football clubs, namely Liverpool FC. And yet it is steadfastly outside of England in its sense of self. And, yes, it has a sentimental streak. When Terence Davies released his dreamy emotional Time and the City in 2008, there was talk that it outdid the new Bond movie at the box office in Liverpool. The film was lauded as a masterpiece and dismissed as risible. That didn’t matter: what is important is that it was an intense engagement with the city by a native son and other Liverpudlian’s responded to it.
Vigil
A friend who lives in the city and attended the vigil on Wednesday described the mood as “dignified with a simmering anger beneath it”. And he pointed out how Liverpool people still feel the establishment regards their city with contempt: “If 96 rugby fans had been crushed in Twickenham it would have been very different.”

That may be at the heart of it. The victims, their families, other fans at the game and, by extension, the people of the city, had to fight against the fact the establishment had made up its mind about Liverpool as a place and a society. They had to fight the sickening allegations that the fans had caused those deaths. It is only now, after 27 years, they can be at peace with the fact the world knows the victims were blameless and that the other fans, those who found themselves in that appalling crush, behaved with extraordinary courage, compassion and dignity: under extreme stress and fear, they exhibited all of the qualities to which any society would aspire.

The Liverpool terrace heroes of ’89 have grown softer, greyer, toddling through middle age. Liverpool football teams, some mediocre, some mercurial, have come and gone since. Like the city, the club holds fast to past glories.

This year’s team lost 0-1 in Villarreal on Thursday night. At the return leg, the home fans will sing You’ll Never Walk Alone many times during the evening. They would have sung it in Sheffield, too, had things been different. But that rendition was delayed by 27 years until their relatives appeared outside the inquest hall for what might be Liverpool’s finest hour.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/hillsborough-inquest-verdict-liverpool-s-finest-hour-1.2629631
Stabbed your boss in the back, the man who made you fucking European Champions, and got in the man you wanted as manager. Just because Rafa wouldn't fucking cuddle you enough and fucking wank you off while telling you how fucking great you are.

Offline KiNki

  • Smicer devotee supreme, Sammy Lee impersonator extraordinaire.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,246
  • i am an_nik_ki.
    • http://hfdinfo.com/digital
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1143 on: April 30, 2016, 12:53:34 pm »
[/flash]
https://youtu.be/sXi0DClt5JQ

Cheers john

Put to bed those clinging to the lie regarding hordes of ticketless.   

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sXi0DClt5JQ&amp;showsearch=0&amp;rel=0&amp;fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/sXi0DClt5JQ&amp;showsearch=0&amp;rel=0&amp;fs=1</a>

Online Hazell

  • Ultimate Movie Night Draft Winner 2017. King - or Queen - of Mystery. Hyzenthlay. The 5th Benitle's sex conch.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 69,222
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1144 on: April 30, 2016, 02:47:05 pm »
Everton players pre-match today:

We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline fredfrop

  • 19*
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,658
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1145 on: April 30, 2016, 07:32:28 pm »
Everton players pre-match today:


I'm glad they won today for that.
* * * * *

Offline Shady Craig

  • 'Arry's Tax Lawyer. T'riffic. Hush, hush, eye to eye. When will he, will he be famous? I can't answer that!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,769
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1146 on: April 30, 2016, 07:50:04 pm »
Everton players pre-match today:


Nice tribute from them today fair play.

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 42,771
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1147 on: May 1, 2016, 12:20:52 pm »
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/michael-mansfield-hillsborough-families-were-11262985#ICID=FB-Liv-main

Michael Mansfield: Hillsborough families were my rock after my beloved daughter took her life



Hillsborough barrister Michael Mansfield QC spoke of his debt to the families for the support they gave him after his daughter took her life.

On May 1, 2015, Mr Mansfield had been due to question former Merseyside chief constable Norman Bettison

But that morning the lawyer, who has been involved in high profile cases including the Bloody Sunday inquiry and the inquest of Princess Diana, discovered that his 44-year-old daughter Anna had committed suicide.

He told the ECHO: “I owe a debt to the Hillsborough families because in a sense they became my family.

“I think without their support things would have been even more difficult.

“They understand about sudden loss and how you deal with it far better than most people.

“They were incredible and very understanding.

“It made a big difference.

“I probably wouldn’t have been able to carry on quite so quickly without them.”

He added: “If you can stand together you can help each other and that’s how I survived.

“I’ve taken that from earlier cases as well, the Bloody Sunday inquiry, the Stephen Lawrence family, the Marchioness, they have all seen some kind of solidarity.

“You learn that you’re not an island as a person, we do depend on each other and there’s nothing wrong with that, we shouldn’t be embarrassed about it.”

Since Anna’s death Mr Mansfield has set up Silence of Suicide (SOS) - an initiative to provide forums for people to speak about the subject.

He told the ECHO he thinks he has changed as a person since the inquests started in March 2014.

He said: “I feel a little more raw than I was.

“You just can’t go on day after day protecting yourself and putting up barriers, you can’t do that.”

Mr Mansfield first started working with the families in about 2008.

He said: “It was at a stage before Andy Burnham spoke at the 20th anniversary so it was a time when, although hope springs eternal, the families were feeling fairly isolated in one sense because every time they turned anywhere they were rejected.

“My only role or function could be to keep the flame alive. I’ve done a lot of these cases and I know in the end, if you persist and you’ve got strength and collectivity, in the end you do succeed, but it takes a lot of everybody to give that kind of support.”

Through the course of the inquests he was involved in questioning a number of key witnesses, including match commander David Duckenfield, who admitted his failings caused the 96 deaths.

Mr Mansfield said: “We’re used to seeing witnesses behave in ways we don’t and can’t predict.

“What I found unfortunate was that it hadn’t happened before.

“This could have contributed to the healing process, if he had been prepared to do what he did in the witness box 25 years ago.

“That would be my pertinent observation. It was really unfortunate.”

He said beginning the inquests with the 96 personal portraits of the victims had been unique to the process.

He said: “Every single portrait was different, even though the impact was the same - never to be forgotten, memories never erased, lives really turned upside down, still turned upside down. This hasn’t been forgotten and people are still living it every single day. People need to know that.

“We got to know the families that way and it was a novel situtation to have that facility.”

He added: “It puts the families at the heart of the inquest from the beginning, the person is no longer a number and we can picture where they lived, how they lived and why they lived”

The lawyer said he found the attitude of some of the medics who gave evidence to the inquests “extraordinary”.

He said: “There were notable instances where they absolutely didn’t get it, they were there, often having to save lives, walking past pens where people were being crushed to death and they walked straight past.

“It is one thing to be constantly critical of the police but here were members of the medical profession not performing the role they were expected to perform.

“There was one witness in particular who had walked past as if nobody was shouting for help.”

He added: “Then of course you watch the film at the same time and you can see people’s faces up against the wire fence.

“You can never ever erase that. I don’t think that’s an image that will ever leave me.”

Mr Mansfield paid tribute to the members of the jury.

He said: “I think their stamina is a tribute to the jury system.

“They are ordinary people and I’m sure they didn’t appreciate how long it would take and how searing it is for them to have this sea of emotion on a daily basis.”
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline Momos_righteye

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 998
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1148 on: May 3, 2016, 10:25:21 am »
“It puts the families at the heart of the inquest from the beginning, the person is no longer a number and we can picture where they lived, how they lived and why they lived”

I think this was such an important part of the whole justice.

Offline paulrazor

  • Dreams of a handjob from Timmy Mallett. Chronicler of seasons past. Cares more than Prelude Nr 5, or does he?
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,876
  • Take me 2 the magic of the moment on a glory night
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1149 on: May 3, 2016, 07:50:51 pm »
I watched the McGovern documentary there today. Jesus I haven't cried like that for a long time. Jesus it was heartbreaking.
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline OLDIE

  • WORLDIE
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,020
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1150 on: May 8, 2016, 07:36:18 pm »
BBC 2 Tonight a must watch  9pm

Offline Daniel Cabbaggio

  • Roughage
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,786
  • Pass and move, keep it simple = 19 & 6
    • www.redandwhitekop.com
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1151 on: May 8, 2016, 10:09:04 pm »
BBC 2 Tonight a must watch  9pm
So harrowing, difficult to watch this.
YNWA

Offline Johns_Barn

  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,264
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop

Offline jymbojetset

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1153 on: May 10, 2016, 10:57:58 pm »

Offline Qston

  • Loves a bit of monkey tennis and especially loves a bit of sausage relief......
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,693
  • Believer
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1154 on: May 11, 2016, 09:08:53 am »
https://civillitigationbrief.wordpress.com/2016/05/10/witness-statements-hillsborough-3-confirmation-bias-at-its-worst/#like-15460

I subscribe to a wordpress update (you can probably guess what I do from the link) and I received this update this morning that I thought I would share. There are also links to other articles within this most recent article that also provide some legal background and debate. Anyway, I thought I would share it and mods please feel free to move if you think it should be posted elsewhere.
"Just a normal lad from Liverpool whose dream has just come true" Trent June 1st 2019

Offline Alf Garnett!

  • widely excepted yet secretly cryptic - cower ye before the mighty crusher of yellow walls. Video Embedder Extraordinaire
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,219
  • *Davo*It don't get better than this.
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1155 on: May 11, 2016, 12:33:12 pm »

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,032
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1156 on: May 11, 2016, 12:41:22 pm »
https://civillitigationbrief.wordpress.com/2016/05/10/witness-statements-hillsborough-3-confirmation-bias-at-its-worst/#like-15460

I subscribe to a wordpress update (you can probably guess what I do from the link) and I received this update this morning that I thought I would share. There are also links to other articles within this most recent article that also provide some legal background and debate. Anyway, I thought I would share it and mods please feel free to move if you think it should be posted elsewhere.

Thanks - that's interesting.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Alf Garnett!

  • widely excepted yet secretly cryptic - cower ye before the mighty crusher of yellow walls. Video Embedder Extraordinaire
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,219
  • *Davo*It don't get better than this.

Offline John C

  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 38,745
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1158 on: May 15, 2016, 08:37:55 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/tKiTDO4ykl8?fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/tKiTDO4ykl8?fs=1</a>

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 42,771
Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1159 on: May 16, 2016, 09:32:08 am »
Hillsboro' PC claimed fans were drunk in viral web post. This says otherwise...

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/hillsborough-pc-claimed-fans-were-11311637#ICID=ios_EchoNewsApp_AppShare_Click_Other

Doesn't surprise me that some quarters of the police would seek to indirectly put responsibility upon the supporters by citing previous incidents.  Supporters were not responsible for the poor planning and decision making; the lack of a cordon set a distance from the ground to slow down and control the flow of people streaming towards the stadium, or the catastrophic decisions made once the situation began to spiral out of control.

The cages were only part of the problem.  Previous fan behaviour was not a mitigating factor in what amounted to incredibly lack lustre leadership in what should have been a routine police operation.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art