Topic: North and South Korea Vow to End Hostilities in Historic Accord

[Red Beret]

Doesn't seem like this one was a failure.  If anything NK seems to be stepping up it's missile tests  rather than pull back.

Like I said, and some pundits have alluded to, NK is an attention whore.  Their one desire is to be taken seriously as a global power.  Donald Trump has, to some extent, done that; so it stands to reason that they would ramp things up to try and get another response.

[Red Beret]

The student jailed in NK for swiping a sign has been released, but apparently he's in a coma.

[dalarr]

Mr Warmbier "shows no understanding of language" and has "extensive loss of brain tissue" which was likely caused by cardiopulmonary arrest."

One can only imagine what he has had to endure.

[TheShanklyGates]

Otto Warmbier, US student sent home from North Korea, dies

The American student who was released last week after being held in captivity for more than 15 months in North Korea has died, his family says.

Otto Warmbier, 22, returned to the US last Tuesday, but it emerged he had been in a coma for a year.

North Korea said botulism led to the coma, but a team of US doctors who assessed him dispute this account.

Mr Warmbier was sentenced to 15 years of hard labour for attempting to steal a propaganda sign from a hotel.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40335169

Poor lad

Fucking horrible this.

[J_Kopite]

Absolutely horrible news.

While for us in the developed world its easy to have a good old chuckle at the pariah state and its eccentricities (I know because I've done it), we shouldn't forget that the Kim's enforce one of the most barbaric, brutal and cruel regimes on the face of the planet.

Thoughts with his loved ones and everyone else who's suffered under that shitarse government.

[Red Beret]

Said at the time that it was a stupid prank that showed a stark ignorance of the country he was visiting if he thought some guard would just chuckled and wave it off, but nobody deserves this.  A young life utterly wasted because a hostile and barbaric nation wanted to send a message and act tough. 

Looks like they royally shit themselves when Warmbier's condition deteriorated, and with good reason.  The current occupant of the White House makes for a tinderbox situation.

Just very sad about all of this.  RIP to the young man.

[Something Else]

Said at the time that it was a stupid prank that showed a stark ignorance of the country he was visiting if he thought some guard would just chuckled and wave it off, but nobody deserves this.  A young life utterly wasted because a hostile and barbaric nation wanted to send a message and act tough. 

Looks like they royally shit themselves when Warmbier's condition deteriorated, and with good reason.  The current occupant of the White House makes for a tinderbox situation.

Just very sad about all of this.  RIP to the young man.

Did he do it? I remember reading an article that said the cctv footage was training and inconclusive and his confession was coerced?

[Red Beret]

Did he do it? I remember reading an article that said the cctv footage was training and inconclusive and his confession was coerced?

That's news to me.  At the time on here the general consensus was that he had pulled some kind of typical student prank, maybe as a dare or something.

It's easy to imagine anybody being coerced by NK, but equally, it may be easier to believe this was NK being brutal to an innocent man, rather than consider he might have actually done something to trigger them.  At the end of the day, when you visit a nation that considers you a representative of a hostile, enemy nation, then you have to be on your absolute best behaviour.

Of course, if NK decided to just single him out on a made up charge it makes it even more horrific, and only adds to an incendiary political situation.

[PhilV]

Poor guy, I do feel sorry for him and not to disrespect the diseased but why oh why do people voluntarily go to places like this, we all know what it's like, it's pure mental.


If he was like some investigative journalist or whatever then I could deffo see it but just going...to go as a tourist? For fun? What goes on there is not fun or touristy, it's a horrible regime that treats people below human conditions as unfortunately this young lad found out.


Botulism as well... if he did have it I'd hazard a guess he didn't pick it up by accident


RIP

[Red Beret]

Botulism as well... if he did have it I'd hazard a guess he didn't pick it up by accident

RIP

He was sentenced to 15 years hard labour, but he's been in a coma for the past year.  He was only jailed something like 15 months ago.  It could have been anything, really.  The combination of starvation rations and hard work could have caused a complete physical collapse that left him very vulnerable to any kind of infection or disease. 

I imagine that, even somebody in relatively good physical condition, suddenly eating food that's barely nourishing, combined with strenuous physical activity, could easily stress the body to breaking point very quickly.  He could have fainted and hit his head, or suffered a heart attack, as unlikely as it might seem for somebody so young.  Or a guard may have just casually cracked him over the back of the head with his stick as he walked past.  Likely we'll never know for sure.

[AndyInVA]

Did he do it? I remember reading an article that said the cctv footage was training and inconclusive and his confession was coerced?

the punishment did not fit the apparent crime at all and I always wonder when young people get caught up in some bizarre nations is that the subtext is spying

pretty sure we will never know

or it may well be as simple as it sounds and he had a ridiculous sentence and paid an insane price

[Trada]

Thats what you call a medal collection I wonder what they are for.

[Crosby Nick]

Thats what you call a medal collection I wonder what they are for.

I got my Golden Arrow at Cubs and even I didn't have that many badges.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Thats what you call a medal collection I wonder what they are for.

10m breaststroke. 20m breaststroke. 30m breaststroke. 40m.....

[Zeb]

They're fucked if South Korea invests in giant magnets.

[12C]

10m breaststroke. 20m breaststroke. 30m breaststroke. 40m.....

Imagine the poor sod who has to carry his suitcases

[Red Beret]

3 months without betraying our glorious leader, 4 months etc.

[oldfordie]

Thats what you call a medal collection I wonder what they are for.

Probably best if they use Brillo brass cleaner than the dry cleaners.

[Danny Boys Dad]

Thats what you call a medal collection I wonder what they are for.

They might be match badges, Real Pyongyang v Atletico Kangwon etc etc

[RedRabbit]

They might be match badges, Real Pyongyang v Atletico Kangwon etc etc

I saw that game.

Kim Jong scored a blinder from 140 yards.

[Danny Boys Dad]

I saw that game.

Kim Jong scored a blinder from 140 yards.

And bad bootle meff scored a hat-trick

[hide5seek]

They're fucked if South Korea invests in giant magnets.

hahahaha

[So… Howard Philips]

And bad bootle meff scored a hat-trick

Beat me to the punch.

[[new username under construction]]

Arnold J Rimmer's paradise

[Trada]

I wonder if they are even metal more than likely plastic.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Probably best if they use Brillo brass cleaner than the dry cleaners.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

[Trada]

They are saying another missile test maybe hours away depending on weather.

Lots of movement around the missile launch site.

[Trada]

Japan saying that they have just launched another missile nothing else is know about it right now.

I guess thats another medal for all of them.

[Trada]

 Japanese military believes North Korea could have test-launched another intercontinental ballistic missile and came within 230 miles of their coast.

[Bunter]

These boys are just asking to be annihlated by the rest of the world now. What are these daft pricks trying to achieve with the antagonising?

[Zeb]

Strong suggestions that the missile had the range to reach most of Europe and continental USA. They don't have a small enough nuclear warhead to put on it, but then there are other things which could be used given NK's known capabilities in chemical and biological weapons. (see Michael Lewis' article in Vanity Fair this month for a former senior US Department of Energy official highlighting this risk.)

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/north-korea-just-tested-a-missile-that-could-likely-reach-washington-dc-with-a-nuclear-weapon/

[Lush is the best medicine...]

These boys are just asking to be annihlated by the rest of the world now. What are these daft pricks trying to achieve with the antagonising?

a part of me thinks the rest of the world are fine with this dick swinging to look tough to their own people as long as they don't actually attack them (and of course they'd destroy them)

[goalspaytherent]

It wouldn't surprise me one iota to wake up one morning and read that north Korea has been hit with one of those US made "mother of all bombs" overnight .....i can honestly see Trump sanctioning it

[Red Beret]

As I said before, this isn't so much about NK threatening the the US as it is about them wanting to prevent a US response if/when they invade SK.

It's about them being able to say, "you can wipe us out, but we can still kill millions of Americans before you do."

So the issue is now, do we have a second Korean War before the North develops nukes?  Or does the West gamble the security of the Far East on the chance NK gets nukes but is content to remain within their borders?

Hell, knowing the Orange One he will probably take some random NK insult personally and order a pre-emptive strike on an insane whim.

[thelinnen]

As I said before, this isn't so much about NK threatening the the US as it is about them wanting to prevent a US response if/when they invade SK.

It's about them being able to say, "you can wipe us out, but we can still kill millions of Americans before you do."

So the issue is now, do we have a second Korean War before the North develops nukes?  Or does the West gamble the security of the Far East on the chance NK gets nukes but is content to remain within their borders?

Hell, knowing the Orange One he will probably take some random NK insult personally and order a pre-emptive strike on an insane whim.

This isn't a case of mutually assured destruction, he's got a screw loose. China could cut off 80% of their trade and kill their economy overnight, let nature take it's course as he gets overthrown. Instead we're sleepwalking towards a very difficult conversation.

[rafathegaffa83]

Not sure how easily common people would overthrow him. It's a firmly closed, deeply repressive and technologically backward regime. This won't be like East Germany or Poland, where ordinary citizens end the ruling regime by democratic protests. The likes of China, South Korea and Russia are the keys to any regime change there. I recently read a book about the history of North Korea that notes the regime has always ran on a bizarre notion of self-proclaimed self-sufficiency, which was anything but, since it largely entailed playing friendly countries (China, USSR, East Germany) off each other in order to extract more benefits for the regime.

[Red Beret]

This isn't a case of mutually assured destruction, he's got a screw loose. China could cut off 80% of their trade and kill their economy overnight, let nature take it's course as he gets overthrown. Instead we're sleepwalking towards a very difficult conversation.

You honestly think North Korea would launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike against the US? 

This isn't about MAD.  North Korea WILL use nukes if they feel they have nothing to lose, but it's part of the bigger game of trying to control how America responds.  I personally don't believe this is even about America, which I think is a misconception that dogs a lot of Western thinking.  It's all down to the North wanting to kick the South's ass, but the threat of American intervention prevents that. 

If a combined South Korean/US force threw off a NK assault and set one foot inside their territory all hell would break loose.  The North would empty its silos. 

So the issue is, what might Trump do in the next three and a half years?

[killer-heels]

Why do the Yanks insist on having THAAD in the region when it pisses off everyone like China? Or is that the reason why they put THAAD there?

[damomad]

Not sure how easily common people would overthrow him. It's a firmly closed, deeply repressive and technologically backward regime. This won't be like East Germany or Poland, where ordinary citizens end the ruling regime by democratic protests. The likes of China, South Korea and Russia are the keys to any regime change there. I recently read a book about the history of North Korea that notes the regime has always ran on a bizarre notion of self-proclaimed self-sufficiency, which was anything but, since it largely entailed playing friendly countries (China, USSR, East Germany) off each other in order to extract more benefits for the regime.

The book I'm on (Dear leader Jang Jin-Sung), they remove the "South Korea" label from imported food aid to keep the masses oblivious. Claiming self sufficiency and you can't even feed people the basics without the help of your sworn enemy.

What exactly does victory looks like at this stage for the Kim Dyanasty? This is about as good as it gets: a one party state, absolute adoration from the people. Why is Jung-Un prepared to risk all that?

I hope for an internal coup from within the Workers Party (and those wise to their global status) but from everything I've read, they are so well looked after in comparison to the impoverished in the country, why would they want to change anything? Perhaps someday they can open their doors to globalisation but remain under one party control like China. That's if they aren't obliterated in time.