Author Topic: North and South Korea Vow to End Hostilities in Historic Accord  (Read 80743 times)

Offline Prelude no.5

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #120 on: November 24, 2010, 08:16:50 am »
I trust the UN to get jack done as much as I trust the Pakistani government to actually put an end to terrorism in their country. UN is useless. It really is down to IF China and Russia want to do anything. Without them, everyone might as well bark at a rottweiler and hope to god he doesn't get loose.

That's exactly what I think as well. The US won't even be on the discussion table if ever there would be one.
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Offline High_Cotton

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #121 on: November 24, 2010, 12:46:48 pm »
I don't to sound as though I am having a go at you mate but the USA has as much influence globally as GM does on the world car industry; naught.

Times have changed. It's Russia, China and India who hold the cards now and it's down to what the Chinese and Russians say or do that makes a difference now days when it comes to security issues.

Have you seen the new GM line?  I hear they have a few new concepts vehicles.

Offline Cochise

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #122 on: November 24, 2010, 12:48:44 pm »
If the UN don't step in this could Korea out of control.
;D
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Offline PhilV

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #123 on: November 24, 2010, 01:31:02 pm »
Have you seen the new GM line?  I hear they have a few new concepts vehicles.


apparently they send one them Nimitz Class "boats" over to check out the area? This true?

Offline Mad Men

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #124 on: November 24, 2010, 01:38:48 pm »
apparently they send one them Nimitz Class "boats" over to check out the area? This true?

Only for a North Korean Submarine to fire three fishes at that Nimitz class carrier and to wave BYE BYE to 10,000 american sailors and a billion buckaroo's going down...

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Offline Mad Men

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #125 on: November 24, 2010, 01:39:15 pm »
Have you seen the new GM line?  I hear they have a few new concepts vehicles.


Have they over taken Ford, Toyota or Nissan in global sales yet?
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Offline alfonso

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #126 on: November 24, 2010, 02:13:39 pm »
I don't to sound as though I am having a go at you mate but the USA has as much influence globally as GM does on the world car industry; naught.

Times have changed. It's Russia, China and India who hold the cards now and it's down to what the Chinese and Russians say or do that makes a difference now days when it comes to security issues.



I think that is very myopic.

Over 50 US Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II throughout the world and still continuing.

I am sure the Rand corporation support an all out war.
In October 2008, the RAND Corporation was lobbying for a war to be started with a major foreign power in order to stimulate the American economy and prevent a double dip recession.
Not that N.Korea is major but the Chinese in the background are.

But this will probably boil over. Then again the Military Industrial complex will make a fortune with more weapons needed in South Korea for the 'threat'.

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Offline DJBrenton

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #127 on: November 24, 2010, 05:10:33 pm »
BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!




Italy has surrendered to North Korea.
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Offline High_Cotton

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #128 on: November 24, 2010, 05:13:21 pm »
apparently they send one them Nimitz Class "boats" over to check out the area? This true?

Seems a sensible thing to do.

Only for a North Korean Submarine to fire three fishes at that Nimitz class carrier and to wave BYE BYE to 10,000 american sailors and a billion buckaroo's going down...

Haha..ok

Offline Criztian

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #129 on: November 24, 2010, 06:38:40 pm »
I don't to sound as though I am having a go at you mate but the USA has as much influence globally as GM does on the world car industry; naught.

Times have changed. It's Russia, China and India who hold the cards now and it's down to what the Chinese and Russians say or do that makes a difference now days when it comes to security issues.



Simply not true.

United States still holds a significant amount of influence. And to think they won't get involved is beyond absurd.

South Korea can't go to China, Russia or India for aid. China isn't on their side, Russia doesn't really care, and India doesn't have the influence to do anything. South Korea still very much falls into the United States' "Sphere of Influence".

Times haven't changed that much. United States still controls the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet. They still have arguably the most technologically advanced military.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 06:40:51 pm by Criztian »

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #130 on: November 24, 2010, 07:57:17 pm »
They still have arguably the most technologically advanced military.
And if they ever learn how to use it properly we are all fucked.

Anway, got to love this woman, she makes Bush look like a genius.....

Sarah Palin: 'We Gotta Stand With Our North Korean Allies'

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Offline DJBrenton

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #131 on: November 24, 2010, 08:50:46 pm »
How the world lines up if it all kicks off:

CHINA - Will probably stick up for North Korea. Why do you think they try this shit in the first place?

UNITED STATES - US soldiers will be desperate to fight for a country full of horny Asian girls in mini-skirts.

BRITAIN - Korea was probably part of the British Empire at some point, so we will be duty bound to help America commit savage war crimes.

GERMANY - God knows, but lets hope it's on our side.

ITALY - God knows, but let's hope it's on their side.

BRAZIL - We're not sure if Brazil has an army, but if it does, it's probably gay.

INDIA - Will favour the South due to the North's competing inexplicable space programme.

JAPAN  - The Japanese have long coveted North Korea as a place to stack their rubbish.

FRANCE - Don't seem to be answering their phone at the moment. How odd.
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Offline Prelude no.5

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #132 on: November 24, 2010, 10:39:53 pm »
Simply not true.

United States still holds a significant amount of influence. And to think they won't get involved is beyond absurd.

South Korea can't go to China, Russia or India for aid. China isn't on their side, Russia doesn't really care, and India doesn't have the influence to do anything. South Korea still very much falls into the United States' "Sphere of Influence".

Times haven't changed that much. United States still controls the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet. They still have arguably the most technologically advanced military.

What they don't have is their will to use it. They think they can solve everything diplomatically and a couple of sanctions. Just look at the shambles that is Iran.

The USA won their last war in 1945. I think it would stay that way.
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Offline Mad Men

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #133 on: November 24, 2010, 10:42:04 pm »
Simply not true.

United States still holds a significant amount of influence. And to think they won't get involved is beyond absurd.

South Korea can't go to China, Russia or India for aid. China isn't on their side, Russia doesn't really care, and India doesn't have the influence to do anything. South Korea still very much falls into the United States' "Sphere of Influence".

Times haven't changed that much. United States still controls the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet. They still have arguably the most technologically advanced military.

Yes, so South Korea go to the United States who go to whom exactly next with their grievences. I can tell you now, the United States does NOT carry the same weight it once did as far as influence goes. It used to be able to, but not the way you think. China carries far more weight these day's, especially in Asia where this "conflict" is on going and anything the US, Korea and Japan decide to do will have very little effect on North Korea because if China decides to jack shit, nothing will happen.

The Chinese control the ball game now. Not the Americans. And most certainly not South Korea or Japan.

You underestimate China's influence on the region both as a super power and as a economic power house.

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Offline Criztian

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #134 on: November 24, 2010, 11:34:03 pm »
You underestimate China's influence on the region both as a super power and as a economic power house.

I certainly do not, but I think it would be extremely naive to think that the United States holds no influence in the region. I agree, and never claimed otherwise, that without Chinese consent no action will be taken, in fact I stated in my original post that no action would be taken.

But the very fact that there is a massive United States Aircraft Carrier steaming full speed towards the region is indication that the United States still hold sway in the region, and still has the ability to project it's military force across the world. If China did have a monopoly of the decision making on the Korea peninsula then China would simply tell the US military to leave the region and handle the situation themselves.

Offline Mad Men

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #135 on: November 24, 2010, 11:38:57 pm »
I certainly do not, but I think it would be extremely naive to think that the United States holds no influence in the region. I agree, and never claimed otherwise, that without Chinese consent no action will be taken, in fact I stated in my original post that no action would be taken.

But the very fact that there is a massive United States Aircraft Carrier steaming full speed towards the region is indication that the United States still hold sway in the region, and still has the ability to project it's military force across the world. If China did have a monopoly of the decision making on the Korea peninsula then China would simply tell the US military to leave the region and handle the situation themselves.

The United States (and the UK) do not have the same amount of influence they once had. And steaming an aircraft carrier into South Korean waters is likely to increase the price of a burger at McNasty's in downtown Seoul than it will scaring the North Koreans. They really couldn't care less because at the end of the day, China and North Korea hold all the cards.

:)
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Offline Criztian

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #136 on: November 24, 2010, 11:45:50 pm »
The United States (and the UK) do not have the same amount of influence they once had. And steaming an aircraft carrier into South Korean waters is likely to increase the price of a burger at McNasty's in downtown Seoul than it will scaring the North Koreans. They really couldn't care less because at the end of the day, China and North Korea hold all the cards.

:)

That's absurd, if North Korea and China held on the cards then you would be seeing column upon column of North Korea and Chinese tanks parading through the streets of Seoul.

Just because the United States can't rampage up and down the Korean Peninsula at will, doesn't mean China holds all the cards. It simply means that United State's "hand" isn't good enough to do so. But this isn't any different then it was 10, 20, 30 or 40 years ago. Just like the United States couldn't destroy the disgusting state that is North Korea during the Korean War in the 50's because of Chinese intervention, they are in the same position now.

Nothing has changed. China doesn't have any more power on the peninsula then it did before.

I never said that the arrival of a carrier will change anything, quite the contrary, it changes nothing. But the fact that the United States is able to station a such a significant military force a stone's throw away from China shows that China does NOT "hold all the cards" as you put it, because if they did then they would put pressure on South Korea and Japan to expel United States troops and close their military bases in the region. But they know, as well as anyone, that China doesn't have that kind of influence on Japan and South Korea.

Offline Mad Men

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #137 on: November 24, 2010, 11:48:59 pm »
That's absurd, if North Korea and China held on the cards then you would be seeing column upon column of North Korea and Chinese tanks parading through the streets of Seoul.

Just because the United States can't rampage up and down the Korean Peninsula at will, doesn't mean China holds all the cards. It simply means that United State's "hand" isn't good enough to do so. But this isn't any different then it was 10, 20, 30 or 40 years ago. Just like the United States couldn't destroy the disgusting state that is North Korea during the Korean War in the 50's because of Chinese intervention, they are in the same position now.

Nothing has changed. China doesn't have any more power on the peninsula then it did before.

I never said that the arrival of a carrier will change anything, quite the contrary, it changes nothing. But the fact that the United States is able to station a such a significant military force a stone's throw away from China shows that China does NOT "hold all the cards" as you put it, because if they did then they would put pressure on South Korea and Japan to expel United States troops and close their military bases in the region. But they know, as well as anyone, that China doesn't have that kind of influence on Japan and South Korea.


It isn't absurd.

And China is not stupid enough to advocate the invasion of South Korea in this day and age.

And yes, the United States does not have the same influence it once had globally.

I wouldn't under estimate the size and strenght of the either the Chinese nor North Korean military.

If the USA thinks sending an air craft carrier is going to scare anyone, China included, it best think again.

Those day's are long gone.
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Offline Criztian

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #138 on: November 24, 2010, 11:54:21 pm »
And China is not stupid enough to advocate the invasion of South Korea in this day and age.

Why? If United States holds no influence, what's stopping them?

And yes, the United States does not have the same influence it once had globally.

You've stated this several times, but haven't bothered to provide any evidence, but simply continue to state it in the mistaken belief that if you keep saying it'll become true.

I wouldn't under estimate the size and strenght of the either the Chinese nor North Korean military.

At point did I underestimate the size and strength of the Chinese and North Korean military?

If the USA thinks sending an air craft carrier is going to scare anyone, China included, it best think again.

When did I ever say it would?

Offline Mad Men

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #139 on: November 24, 2010, 11:57:39 pm »
You've stated this several times, but haven't bothered to provide any evidence, but simply continue to state it in the mistaken belief that if you keep saying it'll become true?

It isn't a mistaken belief. It's a fact.

And the sooner you come around to that fact and understanding the world outside your living room, the better.

The day's of the United States as a super power are coming to an end. It is bankrupt, it is in HUGE debt to China who has given it massive loans and it is losing its economic, social and educational edge to the rest of the world. It's infrastructure is in decline and it cannot afford to even improve its system of education.

You should come out to asia some time. You might understand and see what I mean. The rest of the world has left the USA behind...:)

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Offline Criztian

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #140 on: November 25, 2010, 12:02:29 am »
Well there's no point of continuing this if you can't even be bothered to offer a rational argument, and are basically just ignoring everything I have attempted to get across.


Let me put it as simply as I can of what the reality is, no opinion just fact.

China has the greatest influence on North Korea

United States has the greatest influence on South Korea

this is a fact.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 12:04:28 am by Criztian »

Offline Mad Men

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #141 on: November 25, 2010, 12:38:29 am »
Well there's no point of continuing this if you can't even be bothered to offer a rational argument, and are basically just ignoring everything I have attempted to get across.


Let me put it as simply as I can of what the reality is, no opinion just fact.

China has the greatest influence on North Korea

United States has the greatest influence on South Korea

this is a fact.


I don't need to. Anyone with half a brain who has been to Korea or is based in Asia knows the score. Maybe, when you decide to move out to Asia and to actually live out here, you might just see why asian's don't really give too hoots about Brits or Americans. For the most part, the educated ones realize the future is in asia and both the UK and the USA are has-beens and are on the decline.

The day's of Americans and the UK dictating what other countries can or cannot do, shall or shall not do are pretty much over.

You have fun out there in Europe.

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Offline High_Cotton

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #142 on: November 25, 2010, 12:41:29 am »
You've stated this several times, but haven't bothered to provide any evidence, but simply continue to state it in the mistaken belief that if you keep saying it'll become true?

It isn't a mistaken belief. It's a fact.

And the sooner you come around to that fact and understanding the world outside your living room, the better.

The day's of the United States as a super power are coming to an end. It is bankrupt, it is in HUGE debt to China who has given it massive loans and it is losing its economic, social and educational edge to the rest of the world. It's infrastructure is in decline and it cannot afford to even improve its system of education.

You should come out to asia some time. You might understand and see what I mean. The rest of the world has left the USA behind...:)

You should think about teaching international relations. 

Offline Mad Men

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #143 on: November 25, 2010, 12:59:53 am »
You should think about teaching international relations. 

Does it pay better than the military??
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Offline High_Cotton

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #144 on: November 25, 2010, 01:08:51 am »
Does it pay better than the military??

Given your take on our educational system, I'd guess no.

Offline Mad Men

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #145 on: November 25, 2010, 01:53:21 am »
Given your take on our educational system, I'd guess no.

Too bad then. :)

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Offline Mad Men

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #146 on: November 25, 2010, 01:58:31 am »
Well there's no point of continuing this if you can't even be bothered to offer a rational argument, and are basically just ignoring everything I have attempted to get across.

I have a question. Have you been to Asia? And have you worked/lived in Asia recently?

Also, an interesting article online today morning:

Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_koreas_clash_china_analysis

BEIJING – When North Korea tested a nuclear device last year, China issued bland criticism and urged Pyongyang to resume diplomacy. After a South Korean navy ship was sunk, most likely by a North Korean torpedo, Beijing sent its sympathies but called the evidence inconclusive.

Now that North Korea has unleashed an artillery barrage on a South Korean island that killed four people — including two civilians — and raised tensions in the heavily armed region, Beijing again appears unwilling to rein in its neighbor.

For all China's growing international might, its tolerance of North Korea's wayward behavior shows how differently Beijing sees the world — or at least its corner of it.

"There is zero chance of China, either in open or in private, putting major substantive pressure on North Korea," said Shi Yinhong, professor of international relations at Beijing's Renmin University.

As impoverished North Korea's most important diplomatic ally and source of crucial food and fuel assistance, China holds the sort of influence that could bring Pyongyang to heel. But keeping the region stable so that China may continue its upward trajectory is the Chinese leadership's No. 1 priority. If that means putting up with the occasional North Korean provocation, experts say, so be it. It fears neither the American leadership under President Obama nor does it see the Americans as a threat simply because it controls all the cards when it comes to economic muscle and the fact America is so dependent on China for economic trade, financing, loans and the massive bailout the American government received in 2008-2009.

Following Tuesday's bombardment, Beijing has so far shied away from calling North Korea to task.

In its first written statement about the incident, China's Foreign Ministry said China feels regret about the loss of lives and property and urged all parties to avoid escalation and restart dialogue.

The statement by spokesman Hong Lei said the relevant parties should "oppose any actions that harm the peace and stability on the peninsula."

While it said that China was worried about the developments, it did not condemn either side.

State media, the only media there is in China, maintained a mostly studied neutrality, describing the skirmish as an exchange of fire.

"China is very much concerned with the peace and stability of the Korean Peninsula, as both the Republic of Korea and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) are China's close neighbors," the Xinhua News Agency quoted Zha Peixin, a member of the legislature's foreign affairs committee, as saying.

China's strategy to steady North Korea has exacted costs. Beijing's refusal to criticize North Korea after the sinking of South Korea's naval corvette, the Cheonan, in which 46 sailors died, offended Seoul, a key investor and trade partner which had been drawing closer diplomatically. In the United Nations, China shielded North Korea from punishment over the incident.

China's protection of North Korea at times seems so unreasonable that it adds to misgivings among Japan, Vietnam and other nations already upset over Beijing's more forceful assertion of its territorial claims in the East and South China seas.

Relations with Washington may suffer too, just two months before Chinese President Hu Jintao wants to pay a pomp-filled state visit.

President Barack Obama has called upon Beijing to restrain its ally. State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said U.S. diplomats had delivered a message to China that it was "pivotal" to changing North Korea's behavior, adding that Beijing has a responsibility to make it clear to Pyongyang that deliberate attempts to inflame tensions with Seoul are not acceptable.

But some American officials and independent analysts have questioned the amount of influence that China actually has with its neighbor, and warned against relying on the Chinese to change North Korean actions.

Far from backing away from Pyongyang, China has in recent years doubled down on its support. As Japan, South Korea and others have reduced trade and aid in recent years in response to North Korean nuclear and missile tests, China has stepped up deliveries of food and other assistance.

China accounted for half of all North Korea's imports and took a quarter of its exports in 2008, according to the U.S. Congressional Research Service. That was before the North's relations with South Korea began souring, taking tourism and investment programs with them.

Politically, Beijing has upped its engagement too, sending a stream of leaders to Pyongyang and twice hosting reclusive North Korean leader Kim Jong Il this summer. The first trip came weeks after the Cheonan sinking. The second time came just before North Korea's Worker's Party held a rare conclave and then a nationwide pageant for the elevation of Kim's son, Kim Jong Un, as dictator-in-waiting. Chinese Politburo member Zhou Yongkang stood with the elder Kim during the festivities.

The steadfastness of Beijing's support at the expense of its international image and relations with Seoul and Washington have raised criticisms even in China that the North Korean tail sometimes wags the Chinese dog. Chinese officials and experts acknowledge the risk, saying Beijing's leverage is limited, given that it is unwilling to throw its economic heft.

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Offline High_Cotton

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #147 on: November 25, 2010, 02:09:50 am »
Too bad then. :)

..well, not for students. :)

Offline Criztian

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #148 on: November 25, 2010, 03:23:22 am »
I have a question. Have you been to Asia? And have you worked/lived in Asia recently?

I love this question, it basically admits that you have zero logical arguments, and have instead decided to default to the "I live in Asia therefore I know".


So once again, I'll ask the same question you seem to consistently ignore?

Are you claiming that South Korea is not, in any way, influenced by the United States?

What change on the Korean Peninsula have you witnessed over the last 10, 20, etc. years that leads to believe that the United States influence has decreased?

There's absolutely no point in having a debate if you think you are somehow above logic and reason and don't feel the need to present any arguments.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 03:27:36 am by Criztian »

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #149 on: November 25, 2010, 03:36:39 am »
I love this question, it basically admits that you have zero logical arguments, and have instead decided to default to the "I live in Asia therefore I know".


So once again, I'll ask the same question you seem to consistently ignore?

Are you claiming that South Korea is not, in any way, influenced by the United States?

What change on the Korean Peninsula have you witnessed over the last 10, 20, etc. years that leads to believe that the United States influence has decreased?

There's absolutely no point in having a debate if you think you are somehow above logic and reason and don't feel the need to present any arguments.

I have said what needs to be said. It's totally up to you if you cannot accept you haven't got a clue about what's going on in asia nor do you understand the situation in relation to both Korea's, China and a sheepish America.

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #150 on: November 25, 2010, 03:57:23 am »
I have said what needs to be said. It's totally up to you if you cannot accept you haven't got a clue about what's going on in asia nor do you understand the situation in relation to both Korea's, China and a sheepish America.



That's the thing, you haven't actually said anything. All you did was make a blanket declaration that "United States isn't what it once was", and you so far have been entirely unable to back up that assertion.

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #151 on: November 25, 2010, 05:13:08 am »
President Barack Obama has called upon Beijing to restrain its ally. State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said U.S. diplomats had delivered a message to China that it was "pivotal" to changing North Korea's behavior, adding that Beijing has a responsibility to make it clear to Pyongyang that deliberate attempts to inflame tensions with Seoul are not acceptable.
It's clear from this who has the most influence on North Korea.

I love this question, it basically admits that you have zero logical arguments, and have instead decided to default to the "I live in Asia therefore I know".
Mad Men never said that. But it's absolutely true that living in Asia will give you different perspectives on China's growing influence.

Last week a new port was opened on Sri Lanka's southern coast. It was entirely funded by the Chinese government. In time Chinese (non-nuclear) warships will be able to re-fuel there as they protect oil coming from the Middle-east to China. I believe this port is part of a series of ports funded by the Chinese in Bangladesh and/or Burma.

Historically Sri Lanka/Ceylon and China have strong ties. The government of the day refused to recognise Taiwan. This was reciprocated years later when China was the first country to state it absolutely would not accept a divided Sri Lanka as they fought the LTTE. It stated that it would back this up either economically or militarily. It backed this up with the weapons that allowed the SL government to defeat the LTTE, China strengthening it's hegemony in the Indian Ocean in the process.

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #152 on: November 25, 2010, 05:28:47 am »
It's clear from this who has the most influence on North Korea.

I think it's been pretty clear since the creation of North Korea who has the most influence in that country. I don't think anything has changed in that respect. The only reason why North Korea survived the Korean War was because of China. And the only reason why it still exists is because of China.

I once again feel the need to state that I never once underestimated or downplayed China's influence in the region, I'm simply stating that claiming that United States has no influence in the matter is simply false, and thus far the only arguments I have been presented with stating the contrary is "You don't live in Asia" and "United States isn't what it once was".

Though I'm claiming that United State's interest in the region and well as their influence over South Korea has not changed at all and remains the same. And I offer as proof that since the end of the Korean War, the United States has not been able to take any substantial action against North Korea without Chinese approval. So I don't understand why the continuation of that problem is being used as evidence of a decline of American influence in the region.

And to offer further proof of American influence in the region, does anyone think that South Korea would take any retaliatory action against North Korea (as it has threatened to do if attacked again) without the approval of the United States? Again this doesn't mean that China isn't a powerful entity in the region, but I think it's naive to think the United States is not a major player in the current diplomatic conflict.

Though to be fair, it's pretty clear that China get's as annoyed as anyone else when North Korea tries to provoke a conflict in the region. And in fact it could be argued that the recent sinking of a South Korean naval vessel in the region as well as the bombardment of a South Korean island probably signifies a weakening of Chinese influence over North Korea.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 05:31:39 am by Criztian »

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #153 on: November 25, 2010, 05:35:34 am »
What they don't have is their will to use it. They think they can solve everything diplomatically and a couple of sanctions. Just look at the shambles that is Iran.

The USA won their last war in 1945. I think it would stay that way.
The USA or I should say the people who pull the strings there don't care about winning and losing wars.
They just care about business interests.

That is why Iraq has been a huge success.  The US wrote the Oil contracts, The most advanced country in the middle east with regards to health, education and military are a basket case and no threat to Israel and Haliburton made 60 billion (paid for by the taxpayer who gets nothing back in return but a terror threat that barely exists (An American has more chance of a bee killing him than a bandit in a cave).

The US have been involved in over 50 US Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II throughout the world and are still continuing.
They succeeded in almost all of them.
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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #154 on: November 25, 2010, 08:13:15 am »

I don't need to. Anyone with half a brain who has been to Korea or is based in Asia knows the score. Maybe, when you decide to move out to Asia and to actually live out here, you might just see why asian's don't really give too hoots about Brits or Americans. For the most part, the educated ones realize the future is in asia and both the UK and the USA are has-beens and are on the decline.

The day's of Americans and the UK dictating what other countries can or cannot do, shall or shall not do are pretty much over.

You have fun out there in Europe.



Given stockpiles of Nuclear Weapons, Tactical Nuclear weapons, NATO and other alliances and Military technology, plus standing Armies, Navies and Air Forces any conflict would end up being pretty messy once any one side went beyond conventional weapons.

Influence takes many forms. Nothing is as one-sided or clear as you are making out.

And yes, I've been to Asia many times.

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #155 on: November 25, 2010, 08:52:15 am »
Given stockpiles of Nuclear Weapons, Tactical Nuclear weapons, NATO and other alliances and Military technology, plus standing Armies, Navies and Air Forces any conflict would end up being pretty messy once any one side went beyond conventional weapons.

Influence takes many forms. Nothing is as one-sided or clear as you are making out.

And yes, I've been to Asia many times.

The point I am making is it is one sided more so now than it ever was. The USA can bark and bitch and moan all it likes but it can do jack shit now that China is the economic power house of the world and every other country not only in the region, europe, south america included are NOT going to condemn or take on China on any forum bar human rights.

When was the last time ANYONE won an argument or a case against China. We keep going around in circles at the UN on issues that don't go beyond the usual condemnation whenever there is a case against Iran or even North Korea other than sanctions.

Things have changed and they continue to change with each passing day. America's time is up and a new economic and military super power has emerged. And that super power is Asia. As much as Asia can't live without American consumerism, America, Korea, Japan and  cannot live without Asia (malaysia, thailand, indonesia, brunei, china, taiwan).

If there was ever to be the end game of all super powers, we saw how the russians collapsed because they simply went bust. And now, we are witnessing how two failed wars (one a huge economic success for certain republican party favoured companies), and a collassal economic melt down due to greed and over spending has not only put America in the worst debt it has ever seen since the great depression, but had to borrow more money than it has ever dreamt it would and sold american bonds to....(drums please)..CHINA to save the banks and the economy from going into total bankruptcy.

The damage done is HUGE and probably a lot worse than the average man can ever imagine. And with America's economic power and status in decline, it's states suffering mounting debts, loss of investments from overseas companies, with other companies relocating their operations to Asia (same situation in the UK), the day's of the British empire and the United States as global super powers are coming to an abrupt end.

Give it another 5 years, and watch the american's (next) start to cut their military strenght, cancel those expensive super carriers, subs and advanced fighters...the next to follow will be base closures..and then shutting down battallions of men from service and a total reduction across the board in the army, navy and air force with the marines the only one's to probably survive the chunck of the cuts.

The UK is already now realizing how badly hit it has been from the global recession and from massive debts..we can't even afford to buy fighters for our 2 new carriers which we are forced to build because it would be more expensive now to cancel the building of them. And those expensive submarines...cut from the budget...reduction of the military size, etc etc...

A new reality has emerged and if one has been to asia (more often than not), it doesn't take an educated man long to realize, times are a-changing...and China and it's fellow asian neighbours are only interested in one thing and one thing only; MONEY.

Which, the USA has very little to spend.

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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #156 on: November 25, 2010, 09:16:58 am »

What exactly are you trying to prove here? The Asia's influence on the world is growing, of course, but if North Korea goes on an all out attack on the south, South Korea will still be relying on the US for support.
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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #157 on: November 25, 2010, 09:19:42 am »
What exactly are you trying to prove here? The Asia's influence on the world is growing, of course, but if North Korea goes on an all out attack on the south, South Korea will still be relying on the US for support.

I think we all kinda figured that out on page 1.

What am I trying to prove? Nothing. I am merely replying to someone's request for me to explain in more detail how I came about to my point of view.

Who are you?
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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #158 on: November 25, 2010, 09:24:50 am »

Times haven't changed that much. United States still controls the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet. They still have arguably the most technologically advanced military.

There's no argument at all, they are far and away the most dominant and technologically military the worlds ever seen.

I'm not particularly happy about that but as a statement is unarguable
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Re: North Korea massing 50,000 troops on border
« Reply #159 on: November 25, 2010, 09:26:35 am »
The point I am making is it is one sided more so now than it ever was. The USA can bark and bitch and moan all it likes but it can do jack shit now that China is the economic power house of the world and every other country not only in the region, europe, south america included are NOT going to condemn or take on China on any forum bar human rights.

When was the last time ANYONE won an argument or a case against China. We keep going around in circles at the UN on issues that don't go beyond the usual condemnation whenever there is a case against Iran or even North Korea other than sanctions.

Things have changed and they continue to change with each passing day. America's time is up and a new economic and military super power has emerged. And that super power is Asia. As much as Asia can't live without American consumerism, America, Korea, Japan and  cannot live without Asia (malaysia, thailand, indonesia, brunei, china, taiwan).

If there was ever to be the end game of all super powers, we saw how the russians collapsed because they simply went bust. And now, we are witnessing how two failed wars (one a huge economic success for certain republican party favoured companies), and a collassal economic melt down due to greed and over spending has not only put America in the worst debt it has ever seen since the great depression, but had to borrow more money than it has ever dreamt it would and sold american bonds to....(drums please)..CHINA to save the banks and the economy from going into total bankruptcy.

The damage done is HUGE and probably a lot worse than the average man can ever imagine. And with America's economic power and status in decline, it's states suffering mounting debts, loss of investments from overseas companies, with other companies relocating their operations to Asia (same situation in the UK), the day's of the British empire and the United States as global super powers are coming to an abrupt end.

Give it another 5 years, and watch the american's (next) start to cut their military strenght, cancel those expensive super carriers, subs and advanced fighters...the next to follow will be base closures..and then shutting down battallions of men from service and a total reduction across the board in the army, navy and air force with the marines the only one's to probably survive the chunck of the cuts.

The UK is already now realizing how badly hit it has been from the global recession and from massive debts..we can't even afford to buy fighters for our 2 new carriers which we are forced to build because it would be more expensive now to cancel the building of them. And those expensive submarines...cut from the budget...reduction of the military size, etc etc...

A new reality has emerged and if one has been to asia (more often than not), it doesn't take an educated man long to realize, times are a-changing...and China and it's fellow asian neighbours are only interested in one thing and one thing only; MONEY.

Which, the USA has very little to spend.



I must have missed China stopping the US invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq then....
Rubber Dinghy Rapids....