Topic: League Cup and Club World Cup.

[duvva 💅]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-send-five-young-players-16684910

Larouci, Lewis, Duncan, Hoever and VDB sent home
I guess this suggests these 5 won’t be involved Sunday

[Ocean Red]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-send-five-young-players-16684910

Larouci, Lewis, Duncan, Hoever and VDB sent home
I guess this suggests these 5 won’t be involved Sunday

shows how high harvey is rated as he wasn't sent back.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Super Cup to have a female ref for the first time

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/02/stephanie-frappart-to-break-new-ground-by-refereeing-liverpool-v-chelsea-in-super-cup

[Schmidt]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-send-five-young-players-16684910

Larouci, Lewis, Duncan, Hoever and VDB sent home
I guess this suggests these 5 won’t be involved Sunday

Seems to suggest that Gomez and Milner are the fullback deputies again this season, which is disappointing.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-send-five-young-players-16684910

Larouci, Lewis, Duncan, Hoever and VDB sent home
I guess this suggests these 5 won’t be involved Sunday

I think its got to do with the Checkatrade Trophy. The U21s will be in action over there.

[Too early for flapjacks?]

shows how high harvey is rated as he wasn't sent back.

Bit surprised by that to be honest. I can't see him making the bench on Sunday against Man City so I would have thought it would be better for him to join the others in preparing for the EFL Trophy game against Oldham on Wednesday.

[newterp]

Harvey probably has some assurances made when he was signed. That said Klopp also only got to see him for a week. The others were there from the start of training and in the US.

[Bobinhood]

Interesting tidbit, the Super Cups going to have an all female ref crew.

Nice, interesting to see how the men react. Do they "game" more, or less. I bet less.

[red number 9]

Super Cup to have a female ref for the first time

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/02/stephanie-frappart-to-break-new-ground-by-refereeing-liverpool-v-chelsea-in-super-cup

Richard Keys head fallen off yet?

[duvva 💅]

Seems to suggest that Gomez and Milner are the fullback deputies again this season, which is disappointing.

Not necessarily, as pointed out above it could be they’re needed for the EFL trophy game and would be unlikely to be involved Sunday so makes sense for now.

I guess we’ll see how things develop cover wise as the season progresses.

[farawayred]

Super Cup to have a female ref for the first time

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/02/stephanie-frappart-to-break-new-ground-by-refereeing-liverpool-v-chelsea-in-super-cup

That’s pretty darn bad. I watched the women’s World Cup and the referees were gash overall. As a whole, they did well to tarnish the VAR reputation. These weren’t too bad in the final, but there were series of wrong calls and new thing is for sure - they won’t keep up with the speed of the game. Not a chance!

[Wool]

That’s pretty darn bad. I watched the women’s World Cup and the referees were gash overall. As a whole, they did well to tarnish the VAR reputation. These weren’t too bad in the final, but there were series of wrong calls and new thing is for sure - they won’t keep up with the speed of the game. Not a chance!

We watch the male refs in the PL make shit decision after shit decision after shit decision on a weekly basis. Does that make all male referees shite or does it just mean that, as with everything, some people are good at their jobs and others aren’t?

[dudleyred]

We watch the male refs in the PL make shit decision after shit decision after shit decision on a weekly basis. Does that make all male referees shite or does it just mean that, as with everything, some people are good at their jobs and others aren’t?

Well said and the fitness of many in the premier league leaves a lot to be desired

[sms1986]

That’s pretty darn bad. I watched the women’s World Cup and the referees were gash overall. As a whole, they did well to tarnish the VAR reputation. These weren’t too bad in the final, but there were series of wrong calls and new thing is for sure - they won’t keep up with the speed of the game. Not a chance!

Wool replied to most of your post, but in regards to speed - if she wasn't able to keep up with the players they wouldn't have selected her to be the referee. It's a different job, but there's been female assistant referees for Premier League games before.

[classycarra]

That’s pretty darn bad. I watched the women’s World Cup and the referees were gash overall. As a whole, they did well to tarnish the VAR reputation. These weren’t too bad in the final, but there were series of wrong calls and new thing is for sure - they won’t keep up with the speed of the game. Not a chance!

Bit of casual sexism, generalising all female referees there. Lovely.

"Tarnishing the VAR reputation!" Fucking hilarious. Did you notice the gender of the men in the VAR office? (I've left you a clue in the question)

Women have reffed Bundesliga games well, and the only lineswoman in the PL is more impressive than most of her male counterparts.

That's the thing about 52 year old american men, often make a series of bad calls. Definitely not to be trusted

[Dim Glas]

Bit of casual sexism, generalising all female referees there. Lovely.

"Tarnishing the VAR reputation!" Fucking hilarious. Did you notice the gender of the men in the VAR office? (I've left you a clue in the question)

Women have reffed Bundesliga games well, and the only lineswoman in the PL is more impressive than most of her male counterparts.

That's the thing about 52 year old american men, often make a series of bad calls. Definitely not to be trusted

and the woman who refs in the Bundesliga (Bibiana Steinhaus), is one of the best referees in the league. I barely notices she's reffing when she gets a game. She should get more this season I hope.

[farawayred]

Wool replied to most of your post, but in regards to speed - if she wasn't able to keep up with the players they wouldn't have selected her to be the referee. It's a different job, but there's been female assistant referees for Premier League games before.

She barely kept up with the women's final, have you watched it? Mind-boggling speed... All it takes is one Mane or Salah run on a counter and she won't see them fouled because she'd be still at the half-way line.

[farawayred]

We watch the male refs in the PL make shit decision after shit decision after shit decision on a weekly basis. Does that make all male referees shite or does it just mean that, as with everything, some people are good at their jobs and others aren’t?

Leagues and international events are not easy to compare, nor do they warrant level field for comparison. But for example, compare the men's WC referees and the women's WC referees, a gulf of a difference in quality. This is not about men vs. women thing in the context of sexism. I brought the comparison in the context of physiology. Look at track and field records and you will understand why I did that. Neither group has Usain Bolt, but select a group that plays the same sport and you have a fair comparison. My claim is that on average women are slower than men, and referees are slower on average than players. That will put a woman referee in a strong speed disadvantage with respect to a player. This also goes for the assistant referees, which will have a hard time to keep their position with respect to offsides. That was a general observation during the women's WC too, although the game was painfully slow for me. To have enough speed to referee a man's football game, UEFA has to pick from the top of the distribution curve. I would not have made that statement about Sian Massey, she's pretty capable.

[farawayred]

Bit of casual sexism, generalising all female referees there. Lovely.

Nothing of the kind, see above. As for the "tarnishing the VAR reputation", I stand by that comment. Compare the statistics on what fraction of improvement VAR has had in UEFA or Germany and what was the fraction of improvement during the women's WC. You can find you favorite source, the conclusions will be the same.

Not specifically directed to you mate, but I fucking hate today's day and age, when people who disagree with an opinion bring up sexism, racism and what not big words into it...

[stjohns]

Is Sunday a sellout?

[BarryCrocker]

Is Sunday a sellout?

Yeah, Stirling is playing.

[jonnypb]

That’s pretty darn bad. I watched the women’s World Cup and the referees were gash overall. As a whole, they did well to tarnish the VAR reputation. These weren’t too bad in the final, but there were series of wrong calls and new thing is for sure - they won’t keep up with the speed of the game. Not a chance!

Why is it so bad?

Have you not seen some of the decisions male refs make!?

Some of the women refs that I’ve seen will easily keep up with the pace of the game, in fact some are undoubtedly more able to do so than some of the older male refs!

Describing a women ref as gash..... lol

[free_at_last]

She barely kept up with the women's final, have you watched it? Mind-boggling speed... All it takes is one Mane or Salah run on a counter and she won't see them fouled because she'd be still at the half-way line.

Damn - now you've reminded me of Halsey giving that penalty on Valencia for the mancs at Anfield when he was 40 yards behind - I was trying to forget that 

[dirks digglers]

Leagues and international events are not easy to compare, nor do they warrant level field for comparison. But for example, compare the men's WC referees and the women's WC referees, a gulf of a difference in quality. This is not about men vs. women thing in the context of sexism. I brought the comparison in the context of physiology. Look at track and field records and you will understand why I did that. Neither group has Usain Bolt, but select a group that plays the same sport and you have a fair comparison. My claim is that on average women are slower than men, and referees are slower on average than players. That will put a woman referee in a strong speed disadvantage with respect to a player. This also goes for the assistant referees, which will have a hard time to keep their position with respect to offsides. That was a general observation during the women's WC too, although the game was painfully slow for me. To have enough speed to referee a man's football game, UEFA has to pick from the top of the distribution curve. I would not have made that statement about Sian Massey, she's pretty capable.

The thing is, sexism is stereotyping on the basis of gender, usually against women. Which is what you were doing. Your justification is that elite male athletes are quicker than female ones and that this principle applies as a generalised rule of male vs female physicality. But there are a lot of women who are fitter and faster than men. Therefore there are potentially a lot of women who may be quicker, fitter and better than male referees. Obviously whoever gets the reffing gig for a game, man or woman, needs to be up to the task and that’s the governing body’s responsibility. But when you chuck out generalisations on the basis of gender and then lob in a Sian Massey disclaimer at the end, it will definitely come off at worst sexist and at best patronising.

Ultimately the world is changing, but it needs to in order to redress some imbalances and stereotyping tropes. There’s nuance and room for misinterpretation and misunderstanding. So no offence, I know where you were coming from, but we can only say what we see and have a civilised conversation about it.

[sminp]

It’s worth pointing out that Frappart is not new to the men’s game, she has already been reffing in the top tier in France. It’s not like she’s been chucked in as an experiment, she has the relevant experience to referee at this level. Even if she is as shit as FarawayRed suggests she can’t be any worse than the awful premier league refs we see every week anyway, they’ve set the bar extremely low.

[vicar]

I'm sure Martin Atkinson and Wythenshawe’s Anthony Taylor will show her how its done tomorrow..........ugh, all we need is Jon Moss running the line for a full house of shite.

[PoetryInMotion]

Yeah, I hope we (rawkites, humans, whatever) avoid generalized discrimination of any type - sex, race, physical appearance, beliefs, disabilities etc. All of them are as bad on their own and in this day & age we have a lot of awareness about them as well.

[DelTrotter]

I'm sure Martin Atkinson and Wythenshawe’s Anthony Taylor will show her how its done tomorrow..........ugh, all we need is Jon Moss running the line for a full house of shite.

Lovely, the two rats that screwed us out of the title. It's like they are rubbing our faces in it.

[jckliew]

That’s pretty darn bad. I watched the women’s World Cup and the referees were gash overall. As a whole, they did well to tarnish the VAR reputation. These weren’t too bad in the final, but there were series of wrong calls and new thing is for sure - they won’t keep up with the speed of the game. Not a chance!

Yeah. For women referring, you need 2 referees on the field, each covering only a half.

[SuperStevieNicol]

Well said and the fitness of many in the premier league leaves a lot to be desired

This is such a myth. The premier league refs are fitter than ever before. They train more, run further, are monitored 24/7 and are tested on a very regular basis. Some might be shit but they are all fit.

[CHOPPER]

This is such a myth. The premier league refs are fitter than ever before. They train more, run further, are monitored 24/7 and are tested on a very regular basis. Some might be shit but they are all fit.

So they're fit for purpose but shit for purpose

[dudleyred]

This is such a myth. The premier league refs are fitter than ever before. They train more, run further, are monitored 24/7 and are tested on a very regular basis. Some might be shit but they are all fit.

They might be tested to a standard but there are plenty who are overweight and no where near the players fitness levels for example

There are some like Oliver who are clearly in good shape

[vicar]

This is such a myth. The premier league refs are fitter than ever before. They train more, run further, are monitored 24/7 and are tested on a very regular basis. Some might be shit but they are all fit.

They still make some pretty shit decisions.... Atkinson, being a prime example. It was him wasn't it against Leicester when Keita gets his feet taken away from him.

[PhaseOfPlay]

They might be tested to a standard but there are plenty who are overweight and no where near the players fitness levels for example

There are some like Oliver who are clearly in good shape

You won't get many refs that are near the players fitness levels. Remember, the players have the weight of some of the most expensive sports scientists at their disposal.

On top of that, it doesn't matter how fit a ref is (or a player, for that matter) - no one is faster than the ball, and it's the speed of the ball in transition that is more important.

[afc tukrish]

You won't get many refs that are near the players fitness levels. Remember, the players have the weight of some of the most expensive sports scientists at their disposal.

On top of that, it doesn't matter how fit a ref is (or a player, for that matter) - no one is faster than the ball, and it's the speed of the ball in transition that is more important.

Shaw has the weight of all of the most expansive waistline...

[PhaseOfPlay]

Shaw has the weight of all of the most expansive waistline...

Shaw is using the best Spork Scientists.

[soxfan]

She barely kept up with the women's final, have you watched it? Mind-boggling speed... All it takes is one Mane or Salah run on a counter and she won't see them fouled because she'd be still at the half-way line.

You think a fit woman can't run as well as these guys?

[Dim Glas]

Bundesliga ref of the year last year, Deniz Aytekin failed his fitness test this season. In fact, 3 of the top Bundesliga refs did, failing cos they couldn't sprint 40m in 6 seconds, and failing just by a fraction of a second. So they won't be allowed to refree the first round of games. There was an article in Bild saying what nonsense it was, as if failing by a fraction of a second would make them ref worse  But I guess the league is just strict on it!

[PhaseOfPlay]

Bundesliga ref of the year last year, Deniz Aytekin failed his fitness test this season. In fact, 3 of the top Bundesliga refs did, failing cos they couldn't sprint 40m in 6 seconds, and failing just by a fraction of a second. So they won't be allowed to refree the first round of games. There was an article in Bild saying what nonsense it was, as if failing by a fraction of a second would make them ref worse  But I guess the league is just strict on it!

To be fair, you have to have standards, and if you let people slide, then they aren't really standards. So good on the Germans for that.

[Dim Glas]

To be fair, you have to have standards, and if you let people slide, then they aren't really standards. So good on the Germans for that.

absolutely! No point having set results if they don't stick to them.  The one who don't pass the test before the start of the season apparently will be video refs for the first round of games. So it's not like they are being taken out of commission!