Author Topic: Liverpool council want to raise council tax by 10% (Read 7151 times)

gazzalfc · « **on:** November 10, 2016, 05:25:59 pm »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-37936590

Even by Joe's standards this is tough to take. Libraries closing, Sports centres closing, poorly maintained road network.

I'm all for improving care standards in the city. But an extra £100+ a year on top of the £1000 a year will mean most will struggle

keano7 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 10, 2016, 06:10:11 pm »

Quote from: gazzalfc on November 10, 2016, 05:25:59 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-37936590

Even by Joe's standards this is tough to take. Libraries closing, Sports centres closing, poorly maintained road network.

I'm all for improving care standards in the city. But an extra £100+ a year on top of the £1000 a year will mean most will struggle

The referendum vote will speak volumes. If it gets that far.

redbyrdz · « **Reply #2 on:** November 10, 2016, 06:40:26 pm »

You know what, I've been thinking that might be necessary. Lucky enough I can afford the extra tenner a month, but I realise not all can. I wonder if it could be done on a voluntary basis, more like a regular donation, but going via the existing infrastructure.

The big worry is that the tories would just use it as an excuse to cut something else.

pyroparty · « **Reply #3 on:** November 10, 2016, 06:42:59 pm »

Anderson is a fat scumbag, he can fuck off.

And is it to actually "protect services" or to give his favourite football team yet more money?

Red Beret · « **Reply #4 on:** November 10, 2016, 06:49:04 pm »

Don't councils have to "justify" it to the government if they raise council tax by more than 2%? (You know, as if massive austerity and budget cuts aren't justification enough.)

And how much will it cost to stage a bloody referendum in the first place?

Maybe the council should just launch a crowd funding page or something?

Medellin · « **Reply #5 on:** November 10, 2016, 08:06:58 pm »

Tough to stomach this is,how out of touch is Joe Anderson?

John C · « **Reply #6 on:** November 10, 2016, 08:28:30 pm »

Quote from: Medellin on November 10, 2016, 08:06:58 pm

Tough to stomach this is,how out of touch is Joe Anderson?

Seriously? This isn't a Joe Anderson issue or problem, this is an entire City of Liverpool issue and problem.
Have you studied what's being proposed and why? The figures are in the BBC article, its impossible for the council to absorb the staggering & vicious government grant cuts. The council has a choice of raising council tax by a legal amount leaving a massive shortfall of funds for essential services or the people can decide, by referendum, to agree to pay a bit or a lot more of their choice to protect adults & childrens social care and many other of the precious aspects of the city like culture & tourism.

A budget simulator will be available in due course, have a play with the figures and let us know if you can balance the books

redbyrdz · « **Reply #7 on:** November 10, 2016, 09:04:07 pm »

This is the BBC article.

---------------------------------------
A city's council tax could rise by up to 10% in 2018 but residents would need to agree.

Liverpool City Council says government funding cuts mean it will not be able to fund adult social care or children's services without raising more money.

The authority can not raise council tax by more than 3.99% without holding a local referendum.

The city's Mayor Joe Anderson said "the only solution" is to "cut services or ask for more money".

Mayor Anderson told a full council meeting on Wednesday night that it was not a question he wanted to ask.

He said: "We can ask for more money from the government, but they are not listening, or I can ask for more money from the people from the city which will help protect those services.

"We'd be saying for instance, would they support an additional 5% - so making it just under 9% council tax increase. Then we'd also be asking them would they go even further - 10%."

Consultation beginning

Between 2010 and 2017, central government funding will have been cut by £340m and a further £90m saving is required by 2020, meaning the council will have slashed its budget by about 67%, a spokesperson said.

Mayor Anderson added that any referendum would take place in May alongside the Metro Mayor election and would cost around £300,000.

In 2016, council tax in Liverpool rose by 3.99%, half of which was ring-fenced for social services, while the two previous years saw a 1.99% rise.

And this is not the largest increase the council has ever proposed - in 1994 it raised council tax by 19.5%.

A budget consultation will be launched on 17 November asking people if they would accept the proposed increase.

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It may sound really odd, but I'd be in favour of tax increases (preferably income tax, but the council can't do that). For me it comes down to the question, what kind of society do you want to live in? I'd like to live in a society where the weaker are supported by the stronger, and I believe the fairest and least discriminating way is if the state provides for them. Do we want a well-funded, well-staffed NHS? Do we want schools and recreation facilities accessible for all? If so, we'll have to pay for them. Yes, we could go down the American route where all of this exists and is funded by private donations, but I don't like that those in need of support are dependent on the mercy of those better off. I'd rather everyone has to pay their share, and our normal way to do this is via taxes.

Medellin · « **Reply #8 on:** November 10, 2016, 09:16:38 pm »

I'm sure there are people who are in a position to & will happily pay extra for services lost John.
If this went to a referendum i think you would be a fool to think the people of Liverpool would vote/agree to the rises proposed.

John_P · « **Reply #9 on:** November 10, 2016, 11:38:22 pm »

He probably should've thought about building flats for people and families to live in who'd pay council tax in the city centre instead of waving through every student flats proposal. Especially as the government are ending the payments councils get in lieu of council tax from students.

John C · « **Reply #10 on:** November 10, 2016, 11:40:14 pm »

Quote from: Medellin on November 10, 2016, 09:16:38 pm

I'm sure there are people who are in a position to & will happily pay extra for services lost John.
If this went to a referendum i think you would be a fool to think the people of Liverpool would vote/agree to the rises proposed.

Indeed, unlike many other towns and cities we're not a cash rich city despite our determination to appear ostentatiously stubborn against 7 years of fiscal attack. Last week 700 families in Liverpool experienced the benefits cap introduction, that was as a direct result of Tory cuts, but to date despite the scandal of fire stations closing and public sector jobs for youth workers being lost for a generation the people of Liverpool don't quite get how much they are under attack - even though child poverty is one of the highest in the country. The grant funding cut from central government is astounding and disproportionate per capita - google Newcastle Councils financial research findings as I can't be arsed posting it again.

You're right, ultimately the City won't vote for an increase above the statutory ceiling, but it will result in a budget being set that reflects available resources.

John C · « **Reply #11 on:** November 10, 2016, 11:52:53 pm »

Quote from: John_P on November 10, 2016, 11:38:22 pm

He probably should've thought about building flats for people and families to live in who'd pay council tax in the city centre instead of waving through every student flats proposal. Especially as the government are ending the payments councils get in lieu of council tax from students.

As far as I know the council surpassed the pledge of building 5000 new homes since 2012.

I don't want appear as a cheerleader, I just dislike unfounded criticism of the city. I'm sure there are further genuine savings to be made, but as usual on here its never about policy or protection of the city, its targeted to an individual.

John_P · « **Reply #12 on:** November 11, 2016, 12:52:26 am »

Quote from: John C on November 10, 2016, 11:52:53 pm

As far as I know the council surpassed the pledge of building 5000 new homes since 2012.

I don't want appear as a cheerleader, I just dislike unfounded criticism of the city. I'm sure there are further genuine savings to be made, but as usual on here its never about policy or protection of the city, its targeted to an individual.

Looking at the figures the extra 10% wouldn't even cover the first years reduction. The way the government has been able to cut budgets to city's the past 5 years is nothing short of disgusting.

Doubt there's anything obvious left to cut from budgets now for most cities

Redman0151 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 11, 2016, 12:55:57 am »

Maybe Joe Anderson should pay his own legal fees rather than using the council's money then asking those already struggling to pay more. Things like that add up....

gazzam1963 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 11, 2016, 08:23:44 am »

My feeling would be to vote yes for it , years ago the council was as inefficient as anyone the bins were emptied randomly , repairs where done whenever , the street cleaners worked when they wanted to and by that I mean one hour a day ... I know all this from personal experience but these days from my experience my bins get emptied like clockwork , the street lights get fixed quickly when reported , the employees work hard and do full days . And I also know from personal experience that there adult and children services are good ...my experience possibly not others so I would vote yes for it .

They could look at other ways of raising revenue ( if they legally can ) , was reading an article yesterday on a plane about Lisbon where there is a 1 euro tourist tax on each hotel room per night which is specifically used to restore old buildings , was going to add it to the lime street / futurist / Irish centre thread . So more innovative ideas need to be looked at alongside just raising council tax .

redbyrdz · « **Reply #15 on:** November 11, 2016, 08:40:39 am »

Quote from: gazzam1963 on November 11, 2016, 08:23:44 am

They could look at other ways of raising revenue ( if they legally can ) , was reading an article yesterday on a plane about Lisbon where there is a 1 euro tourist tax on each hotel room per night which is specifically used to restore old buildings , was going to add it to the lime street / futurist / Irish centre thread . So more innovative ideas need to be looked at alongside just raising council tax .

Agree with that. I think they need to find a way to raise more money now, otherwise we will enter a downward spiral where the council provides so few visible services that nobody will be prepared to pay anything at all.

gazzam1963 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 11, 2016, 08:49:38 am »

Quote from: John_P on November 10, 2016, 11:38:22 pm

He probably should've thought about building flats for people and families to live in who'd pay council tax in the city centre instead of waving through every student flats proposal. Especially as the government are ending the payments councils get in lieu of council tax from students.

Agree this is a good point and I have a lad in Brighton who doesn't pay council tax on his house share .... And whether you agree or not there is an agreement in place where redrow are building houses and flats in the city for private residents which does increase council tax but there are I agree lots of student properties being built . There must be demand and good profits being made on these for them to be built . Surely the solution is a smaller percentage charge (10 % ) on the landlord of a property let to students . I've just renovated a property before I could move in as I have an autistic son and he couldnt have coped living in it as it was being done , yet I had to pay 2 council taxes for over a year even though I only lived in one .

Red Beret · « **Reply #17 on:** November 11, 2016, 11:29:56 am »

The student council tax funding issue is very pressing, and I've warned before that it seemed the council was playing false economics with student accommodation. And, equally, even with 5,000 new homes built, I'm seeing a lot of pre-existing housing stock being demolished to make way for new, but smaller, homes.

I would like to see an aggressive refurbishment programme but in place, but that's just me.

Medellin · « **Reply #18 on:** November 11, 2016, 05:03:03 pm »

For those who ain't heard Joe Anderson talking to Mick Coyle about the city's plight..

http://www.radiocity2.co.uk/localnews/10-council-tax-rise-proposed-in-liverpool/

Have to add that i wasn't knocking Joe's efforts in the job he is doing,i was pretty much astounded that he thought or thinks the people of Liverpool would be ok with a 10% rise-hence the out of touch quote from myself which i stand by-if that is deemed a personal attack on Joe then so be it.

gazzam1963 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 11, 2016, 05:36:30 pm »

I think most people's immediate reaction would be no way to the proposal , most people won't have had any dealings with the issues that the extra revenue is going towards so wont vote for it , it needs a mature thought on it and not a knee jerk reaction ...also taking an extra £100 off people is going to be hard . As I said I'd have liked the mayor to have the powers to raise extra revenue for the benefit of the city by different methods ( local taxes inc income , student , tourist etc ) then he can be re-elected or thrown out by the results

gazzalfc · « **Reply #20 on:** November 11, 2016, 09:37:22 pm »

I would lean more towards voting to agree to pay more... But there has to be strict conditions on it.

Most being the transparency. There needs to be a visible, tangible improvement in where the money goes. Would like to see an independent financial expert brought in to audit and spend the money properly.

I'd also like to see the council improve its money recovery. Making sure that those that needs to pay (and has the ability to) do so. Enforcing checks on single occupancy and loopholes

Liverpool council offered a small discount for those that pay via Direct Debit. Encouraged people to sign up for a payment method that automatically brought the cash in.

And very important of.. That when there is an upturn in the financial situation that the savings then get passed back to the people of Liverpool in terms of actual reduction in tax rather than putting on events like the giants, 3 Queens or tall ships.

John_P · « **Reply #21 on:** November 11, 2016, 09:59:17 pm »

The council just voted this nonsense idea through as well

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/late-night-levy-approved-set-12163500#comments-top

Probably cost people jobs and other bars will just close earlier to avoid paying it.

John C · « **Reply #22 on:** November 11, 2016, 10:29:36 pm »

Quote from: gazzalfc on November 11, 2016, 09:37:22 pm

I would lean more towards voting to agree to pay more... But there has to be strict conditions on it.

Most being the transparency. There needs to be a visible, tangible improvement in where the money goes. Would like to see an independent financial expert brought in to audit and spend the money properly.

I'd also like to see the council improve its money recovery. Making sure that those that needs to pay (and has the ability to) do so. Enforcing checks on single occupancy and loopholes

Liverpool council offered a small discount for those that pay via Direct Debit. Encouraged people to sign up for a payment method that automatically brought the cash in.

And very important of.. That when there is an upturn in the financial situation that the savings then get passed back to the people of Liverpool in terms of actual reduction in tax rather than putting on events like the giants, 3 Queens or tall ships.

I think the conditions of an increase over the cap have been published - a certain % will go to social care.
The councils annual budget is robustly audited every year and available on their website, expenditure is transparent and certainly obtainable through the horrendous interpretation of FOI.

I think people have regarded my initial responses as criticism of them, I'd rather they'd have observed my posts as an acknowledgement of how the City Council has managed savage cuts with mitigated impact on its residents. All 100%, unequivocally caused by this Tory Government.

only6times · « **Reply #23 on:** November 12, 2016, 09:44:35 am »

Won't somebody think of the "lids" and their lack of a scrambler track?

only6times · « **Reply #24 on:** November 12, 2016, 10:08:23 am »

Fat neck is caught between a rock and a hard place on this. As John rightly points out, the real cause is sat in Parliament.

moondog · « **Reply #25 on:** November 13, 2016, 12:01:41 am »

I reckon we should have a 50% increase and invest all that revenue in a new stadium for the blueshite, when they fill it with 60000 every other week (plus champions league games) the income from that will be enough for all of the social care , street cleaning and lighting we need. I can see no flaws in this plan.

Redman0151 · « **Reply #26 on:** November 13, 2016, 12:52:00 pm »

Quote from: only5times on November 12, 2016, 09:44:35 am

Won't somebody think of the "lids" and their lack of a scrambler track?

Fucking sick of those gobshites going past my house every night, smiled to myself when I saw one of the bikes burnt out a few roads away. Fuck knows how much they spend on petrol

only6times · « **Reply #27 on:** November 13, 2016, 01:44:14 pm »

Quote from: Crosby Wych on November 13, 2016, 12:52:00 pm

Fucking sick of those gobshites going past my house every night, smiled to myself when I saw one of the bikes burnt out a few roads away. Fuck knows how much they spend on petrol

About ten rocks worth.

Medellin · « **Reply #28 on:** November 21, 2016, 07:39:38 pm »

https://liverpool.budgetsimulator.com

Fill yer boots.

SlowRap · « **Reply #29 on:** November 22, 2016, 07:01:24 pm »

Quote from: John_P on November 10, 2016, 11:38:22 pm

He probably should've thought about building flats for people and families to live in who'd pay council tax in the city centre instead of waving through every student flats proposal. Especially as the government are ending the payments councils get in lieu of council tax from students.

Nail on the head, the amount of new student accommodation is astounding, build more flats where young professionals from Liverpool and around Merseyside can afford to move out of their parents homes and close to the city centre hence paying council tax.

Tourist tax sounds good too, I'm pretty sure I had to pay something similar in Barcelona and Paris.

mattyyt · « **Reply #30 on:** November 26, 2016, 11:35:55 am »

Quote from: Medellin on November 21, 2016, 07:39:38 pm

https://liverpool.budgetsimulator.com

Fill yer boots.

Mad that. You have to make some serious cuts to balance the budget. Some of the people in power down in London should have a play on this, maybe it will give them some perspective on what we're losing so the queen can have a nice mansion.

I'd be up for paying the extra 10%, we clearly need it. But don't think we, as a city, should take this lying down, it's fucking appalling what this government is doing.

redbyrdz · « **Reply #31 on:** November 26, 2016, 01:30:24 pm »

Do it voluntary. 1% (of your taxable income) for Liverpool.

...income tax hits the right people. 1% will likely be quite a bit more for most people than the 10% council tax increase. I'd much rather give my local council money than the central government. And I'm far from agreeing with lots of decisions the council makes.

John C · « **Reply #32 on:** November 26, 2016, 01:34:00 pm »

Quote from: mattyyt on November 26, 2016, 11:35:55 am

Mad that. You have to make some serious cuts to balance the budget. Some of the people in power down in London should have a play on this, maybe it will give them some perspective on what we're losing so the queen can have a nice mansion.

They're not listening mate, senior civil servants have been approached many, many times with the stark financial facts that in a couple of years time the city will barely be able to provide it's statutory services.
The Government don't give 2 fucks, the country is bollocksed.

Birmingham are in a similar situation.

jimbo196843 · « **Reply #33 on:** November 26, 2016, 11:35:07 pm »

Quote from: redbyrdz on November 26, 2016, 01:30:24 pm

Do it voluntary. 1% (of your taxable income) for Liverpool.

...income tax hits the right people. 1% will likely be quite a bit more for most people than the 10% council tax increase. I'd much rather give my local council money than the central government. And I'm far from agreeing with lots of decisions the council makes.

I will agree to that when I have transparency on some of our councillors bank accounts.........

OOS · « **Reply #34 on:** November 28, 2016, 09:50:53 pm »

More of Pr stunt than anything. Hopefully it gets more peoples attention about the scandalous cuts to local councils. Disgraceful the money been cut under this Tory Goverment.

redbyrdz · « **Reply #35 on:** December 1, 2016, 04:14:15 pm »

Had an email fron the council asking for opinons. Says you can take part when you use the budget calculator posted above.

Redman0151 · « **Reply #36 on:** December 7, 2016, 04:48:09 pm »

Glad to see Butterbean and co are set to green light more student accommodation in town though, just what the city centre needed

On a mission to strip all character and culture from the city centre, and make it another bland town

Claire. · « **Reply #37 on:** December 7, 2016, 08:22:02 pm »

I'm in a position where I could pay the 10% increase, and would, if I knew flump head wouldn't spend it on his own legal expenses or approving more student flats.

He needs taking down a peg or two no doubt.

gazzalfc · « **Reply #38 on:** December 7, 2016, 08:39:01 pm »

"Liverpool wont know whats hit it when I convert another building into student flats mwuahaha"

jimbo196843 · « **Reply #39 on:** December 8, 2016, 01:06:20 pm »

Quote from: Claire. on December 7, 2016, 08:22:02 pm

I'm in a position where I could pay the 10% increase, and would, if I knew flump head wouldn't spend it on his own legal expenses or approving more student flats.

He needs taking down a peg or two no doubt.

me too. Sadly I trust him as far as I could throw him, which isn't very far