Topic: Club statement, re ticket prices

[Eeyore]

This is understandably a very emotive and sensitive subject.
And unless there's an unlikely introduction of a player cap I wonder if there's no right or wrong on the current situation.
Because this is correctand this is also correct....
Hear me out.
Particularly because we have a recently fresh cost of living thread on RAWK. It's hitting us all.

Put aside income for a minute, lets talk about expenditure.
Does anyone remember when Tony Barrett got his job at the club? Flippin hec it was a few years ago. After a few months he was interviewed on a podcast and I'm not sure what the exact question was but it was about spending. His answer was simple and he clearly understood the inside/background of the business. It's all about budgeting. There's a budget for dozens of accounts outside of the playing and managerial staff. Even when a ball isn't being kicked. Community work, the LFC Foundation, miscellaneous subjects, sponsorship, etc etc.

But lets look at a typical match day, and I'm not being snide saying anyone that goes to the game will understand it more. The amount of staff involved inside & outside of the ground is startling. Police and security. Stewarding to a high level. Ground-staff. Etc etc. It's an enormous operation and is not funded for 90 minutes, probably more like 5 hours.

Do we want the Liverpool Football Club staff to have a pay freeze?
Do we want those people that serve the club during irregular hours to have a 2% or perhaps more than a 2% wage increase?
What did everyone get this year?

Is anything that the club is buying not increasing in cost - no.
Do we have astute procurement policies so our margins are as good as they can be - probably.
Did we lose out from CL revenue this year - yes.

Clearly the club are also being squeezed, so our question is how do they find savings or economies. Under the current football climate if they apply it to current player salaries or potential player signings which might impact on-field results would be heavily criticised by our entire fan base.

Can we get lower interest rates on the capital expenditure on the ground improvement - No (don't go there Al).
Can we pay less dividends to owners or shareholders - doesn't seem so.

I understand the proportionality of matchday income compared to the overall business size and also the increased revenue from the stadium capacity and hospitality, I'm just freshening the discussion.

If we want tickets prices frozen or reduced while expecting stadium staff to be paid satisfactorily in the face of inexorable rising costs, we either reduce players wages or we demand higher sponsorship deals within the parameters of our own decency.

I'm not being flippant but what if the Anny Rd was named the McNasty's stand. Would you take that or the the 2%?
It's not an irrelevant subject.

Which and what is going to be stretched?

Just asking 

John the ARE has provided 1,800 seats that provide access to the sports lounges or hospitality. Those tickets are £618-£650 for the Palace game. Even if you take out the costs of the extras then those seats produce the equivalent of around 13,000 general admission tickets.

Those are the cheapest hospitality tickets in the ground.

GA now produces a fraction of our Matchday income. To put things into perspective qualifying for the Champions League last season would have more than paid for the 2% price increase for 40 or 50 years. What we spend on agents' fees would pay for the 2% increase for 15-20 years.

Above all that 2% increase will have no impact whatsoever on the club's ability to pay the living wage for staff.

The 2% increase is probably equivalent to around a week or so of Mo's wages. It is absolutely nuts.

[Cafe De Paris]

People seem to think the club is being run by John smith and Peter Robinson. Those days are long gone.

[daindan]

The ticket pricing situation for our club is unique. There was 0 need for the 2 percent increase. When the main stand was built, the hospo in the main stand was relatively cheap, you could pick up games with proper all inclusive hospo for max £450 a ticket.  If a hospo season ticket holder sold back to the club they’d get 75% back and the club the balance. After Kyiv the club decided £450 was too cheap, they switched to a dynamic model where pricing was dictated by “demand” £450 became £1200, they also decided if someone sold their ticket back the holder gets there average cost back which was around max £350. The club pockets the difference.  This season £1200 became £1458.  The club always said hospo prices were what they were to keep standard tickets frozen. Hospo prices have skyrocketed,the club allegedly sell out match by match so why not keep standard prices frozen?  They don’t need the extra money.

[Keith Lard]

This is understandably a very emotive and sensitive subject.
And unless there's an unlikely introduction of a player cap I wonder if there's no right or wrong on the current situation.
Because this is correctand this is also correct....
Hear me out.
Particularly because we have a recently fresh cost of living thread on RAWK. It's hitting us all.

Put aside income for a minute, lets talk about expenditure.
Does anyone remember when Tony Barrett got his job at the club? Flippin hec it was a few years ago. After a few months he was interviewed on a podcast and I'm not sure what the exact question was but it was about spending. His answer was simple and he clearly understood the inside/background of the business. It's all about budgeting. There's a budget for dozens of accounts outside of the playing and managerial staff. Even when a ball isn't being kicked. Community work, the LFC Foundation, miscellaneous subjects, sponsorship, etc etc.

But lets look at a typical match day, and I'm not being snide saying anyone that goes to the game will understand it more. The amount of staff involved inside & outside of the ground is startling. Police and security. Stewarding to a high level. Ground-staff. Etc etc. It's an enormous operation and is not funded for 90 minutes, probably more like 5 hours.

Do we want the Liverpool Football Club staff to have a pay freeze?
Do we want those people that serve the club during irregular hours to have a 2% or perhaps more than a 2% wage increase?
What did everyone get this year?

Is anything that the club is buying not increasing in cost - no.
Do we have astute procurement policies so our margins are as good as they can be - probably.
Did we lose out from CL revenue this year - yes.

Clearly the club are also being squeezed, so our question is how do they find savings or economies. Under the current football climate if they apply it to current player salaries or potential player signings which might impact on-field results would be heavily criticised by our entire fan base.

Can we get lower interest rates on the capital expenditure on the ground improvement - No (don't go there Al).
Can we pay less dividends to owners or shareholders - doesn't seem so.

I understand the proportionality of matchday income compared to the overall business size and also the increased revenue from the stadium capacity and hospitality, I'm just freshening the discussion.

If we want tickets prices frozen or reduced while expecting stadium staff to be paid satisfactorily in the face of inexorable rising costs, we either reduce players wages or we demand higher sponsorship deals within the parameters of our own decency.

I'm not being flippant but what if the Anny Rd was named the McNasty's stand. Would you take that or the the 2%?
It's not an irrelevant subject.

Which and what is going to be stretched?

Just asking 

I’d accept this if the club hadn’t enjoyed enormous appreciation in its value and increases in revenue across multiple streams, far outstripping inflation. They also manage to successfully penny pinch in the transfer market most years.

There is absolutely no way they needed to impose this 2% ticket price increase. They can easily afford the increases in match day costs through revenues raised elsewhere or slightly reducing their player wage structure. They did it to test the waters and set a standard.

[TepidT2O]

I’m guessing that this has reared its head because we are moving to the new uefa cost to turnover ratios?

All the large clubs seem to be doing similar (or mostly worse?).
A bit unfair to accuse FSG of money grabbing as they don’t take money out, but extremely silly of them not to consult with fan groups before doing so.

The best way to do this (imo) is for top clubs to try to agree controls amongst themselves so that they don’t get into an arms race where they increase revenues to out do each other. Too much to hope? Maybe.


In the short term, I’d like any rises to be avoided for tickets for people in L postcodes. The heart of the club and need to be protected

[Eeyore]

The ticket pricing situation for our club is unique. There was 0 need for the 2 percent increase. When the main stand was built, the hospo in the main stand was relatively cheap, you could pick up games with proper all inclusive hospo for max £450 a ticket.  If a hospo season ticket holder sold back to the club they’d get 75% back and the club the balance. After Kyiv the club decided £450 was too cheap, they switched to a dynamic model where pricing was dictated by “demand” £450 became £1200, they also decided if someone sold their ticket back the holder gets there average cost back which was around max £350. The club pockets the difference.  This season £1200 became £1458.  The club always said hospo prices were what they were to keep standard tickets frozen. Hospo prices have skyrocketed,the club allegedly sell out match by match so why not keep standard prices frozen?  They don’t need the extra money.

Really good post.

I think most people are under the misconception that hospitality is some kind of Corporate experience in which you are waited on hand and foot in a private box. It is like bang average hotel experience that you pay around a £1000 for three or four hours.

It is like an airport lounge with a match ticket thrown in. Except it is around 20 or 30 times the price.

The 1800 seats in the ARE generate around 20 times what the GA seats produce in terms of revenue.

[Eeyore]

I’m guessing that this has reared its head because we are moving to the new uefa cost to turnover ratios?

All the large clubs seem to be doing similar (or mostly worse?).
A bit unfair to accuse FSG of money grabbing as they don’t take money out, but extremely silly of them not to consult with fan groups before doing so.

The best way to do this (imo) is for top clubs to try to agree controls amongst themselves so that they don’t get into an arms race where they increase revenues to out do each other. Too much to hope? Maybe.


In the short term, I’d like any rises to be avoided for tickets for people in L postcodes. The heart of the club and need to be protected

FSG do take money out though.

The increase in revenues has massively increased the money they received when they sold a chunk of the club to Dynasty Equity and when they sold a chunk of FSG to RedBird.

[DangerScouse]

I’d accept this if the club hadn’t enjoyed enormous appreciation in its value and increases in revenue across multiple streams, far outstripping inflation. They also manage to successfully penny pinch in the transfer market most years.

There is absolutely no way they needed to impose this 2% ticket price increase. They can easily afford the increases in match day costs through revenues raised elsewhere or slightly reducing their player wage structure. They did it to test the waters and set a standard.

Thanks for posting this, saved me doing so.

@John C, look at our commercial revenues and how much they've increased. Absolutely no need to put further financial pressure on supporters who contribute so much to the club every week from a financial and personal level.

[DangerScouse]

As the great man said “The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It’s the way I see football, the way I see life.”

It's quite evident the club don't buy into this mantra and over the years have shown little consideration towards the fans.

I'm so proud of our fanbase for standing to up to the current greedy bastards and the ones that precded them.

There is a £30 cap on away tickets, presumably those of you who have little issue with the proposed increases, to the point of justifying them, would be averse to something similar being introduced for home games?

[vblfc]

Good thread with some really interesting points. Considering the cost of living pressures these days it sort of a double edged sword (people can afford less, but costs are forced/going up). Seems like the club tried to pitch the 2% somewhere “in the middle” of inflation and less disposable income for ordinary fans.
Based on ideas in this thread, I think an overall 2% solution could have been found with 0% impact for locals. The club should talk to local fans. But at current trajectories zero impact on ticket prices will run out of gas eventually.
The Premier League is losing it’s way with rich owners, inflated transfers, agent fees, salaries and the rest - All propped up by TV deals, sponsorships, States sportswashing, Champions League revenues and such. It’s a recurring theme across threads now but it’s sort of a runaway train, ripe for exploitation/corruption or political manipulations that looks like it wont stop as long as demand is there and state or pure profiteering ownership is accepted.
Premier League Football is essentially a snowballing, money consuming shitshow that no-one seems willing or able to fix. Ticket increases are the tip of the iceberg.

[rob1966]

Really good post.

I think most people are under the misconception that hospitality is some kind of Corporate experience in which you are waited on hand and foot in a private box. It is like bang average hotel experience that you pay around a £1000 for three or four hours.

It is like an airport lounge with a match ticket thrown in. Except it is around 20 or 30 times the price.

The 1800 seats in the ARE generate around 20 times what the GA seats produce in terms of revenue.

I've done the main stand corporate on my mates tickets and I've got to say I wasn't impressed. I didn't pay anything like what he'd have got if he sold it on, just dropped the cost of two kop tickets to a charity, but I'd never pay full price, it's just not worth it.

As you say, people expect this great experience and while it was table service and you're spoken to politely it's not all its cracked up to be, certainly not 10 times better than the Kop.

As someone else said yesterday, if they needed another million quid, even though they'll have about £7million going spare from what was budgeted for Jurgens £18 million a year salary, couldn't they have just signed another partnership, you know, like the Mancs do?

[actwithoutwords]

Do people think we're not already trying to sign as many sponsorship deals as we can? Partnerships team must be absolutely shite then if there's millions out there that we can't be bothered bringing in.

I said this in another thread, but the price freeze equated to a greater than 20% real terms price reduction over six years. Has that earned the club any leeway or credit at all? Doesn't seem so.
Lot of quoting of Uli Hoeness going on. How much did Bayern increase their season tickets by this season? 4%. The year before? 7%.

We planning to keep squabbling over this then until the team is out of every competition? Great stuff.

[spider-neil]

The days of FSG apologising are long gone. If you want to hurt them then vote with your wallet.

[kj999]

Will the same people who are moaning about a 2% ticket increase, be the same people moaning when we are not competing at the top table in terms of transfers thiscoming summer? Can't have your cake and eat it. I think SOS has been brilliant for the club and for the fans, but in this case, I feel there is a lot of cutting off of noses to spite faces.

Atmos was shite on Thursday and part of this was definitely sown by the flag protest.

We pride ourselves on being the '12th man' and then pretend that the 12th man doesn't make any difference, when it suits our argument.

I think we also need to think long and hard before any 'FSG out' nonsense gathers momentum. If you really think any other ownership would do anthing different (probably 99% would do much WORSE) then you need your head checking.

[rob1966]

Do people think we're not already trying to sign as many sponsorship deals as we can? Partnerships team must be absolutely shite then if there's millions out there that we can't be bothered bringing in.

I said this in another thread, but the price freeze equated to a greater than 20% real terms price reduction over six years. Has that earned the club any leeway or credit at all? Doesn't seem so.
Lot of quoting of Uli Hoeness going on. How much did Bayern increase their season tickets by this season? 4%. The year before? 7%.

We planning to keep squabbling over this then until the team is out of every competition? Great stuff.

As SOS has said, based on inflation, it should be £16 to get in the kop, I should be paying £48 to take my lads the game, not almost £150, so no, they don't get any credit.

[actwithoutwords]

Most of those increases happened in the 90s and 2000s though?
FSG tried to hike again in 2016, got rightly called out for it and backed down.

As SOS has said, based on inflation, it should be £16 to get in the kop, I should be paying £48 to take my lads the game, not almost £150, so no, they don't get any credit.

[Only Me]

If the fan consultation group had anything about them, they’d fucking walk now.

FSG have shown, yet again, that it’s money before everything, and the “consultation” has been shown up for what it is - a blag, box ticking exercise by the greedy twats.

Every so often, their careful PR mask slips, and you can see the venality beneath.

And these apparently “super smart” businessmen pull a stunt like this at the end of the season, right when we’re in the mix for a load of trophies, and at the end of the reign of one of the greatest managers we’ll ever see.

Epic levels of greed needed to carry on like this at this time. And yet the normal dopes will still defend them.

Very proud to say I’ve never spent a single fucking penny on the club with these twats in charge.

[LuverlyRita]

As someone else said yesterday, if they needed another million quid, even though they'll have about £7million going spare from what was budgeted for Jurgens £18 million a year salary, couldn't they have just signed another partnership, you know, like the Mancs do?

It could be fantastic PR for any business choosing to specifically sponsor ticket subsidies and I'm sure most fans would tolerate an ad appearing on the ticket app or emails relating to ticketing. "Your £30 match ticket sponsored by Apple" would be perfectly acceptable IMO.

[Macc77]

Will the same people who are moaning about a 2% ticket increase, be the same people moaning when we are not competing at the top table in terms of transfers thiscoming summer? Can't have your cake and eat it.

It's not going to make any difference to our abilities to sign players. We bid over £100m for Caicedo then spent half of that on Endo and Gravenberch, that's £50m of funds we were prepared to spend that we didn't.

The hospo seats in the ARU will outstrip the amount made in this price rise by many many multiples over the 2024-25 season, coupled with extra CL revenue, a new coach on millions less per season than Jurgen, etc. Claiming that we need an extra £1-2m from match going fans in order to compete in the transfer market isn't going to cut it, and even FSG haven't claimed that.

[Eeyore]

Will the same people who are moaning about a 2% ticket increase, be the same people moaning when we are not competing at the top table in terms of transfers thiscoming summer? Can't have your cake and eat it. I think SOS has been brilliant for the club and for the fans, but in this case, I feel there is a lot of cutting off of noses to spite faces.

Atmos was shite on Thursday and part of this was definitely sown by the flag protest.

We pride ourselves on being the '12th man' and then pretend that the 12th man doesn't make any difference, when it suits our argument.

I think we also need to think long and hard before any 'FSG out' nonsense gathers momentum. If you really think any other ownership would do anthing different (probably 99% would do much WORSE) then you need your head checking.

You think bring in less than £1m from raising general admission prices will have anything to do with how we compete in the transfer market in the summer?

Complaining about the atmosphere is bizarre because that is what it will become permanently if the core support is priced out.

[kaesarsosei]

To be honest, especially in the aftermath of Old Trafford and Atalanta, I am surprised at how fairly sensible this thread has been on what is clearly an emotive subject. One last point I would make is that yeah in the grand scheme of things whats an extra £1-2m a season from tickets to the club but to me thats the difference between us and City - we have to scrape together these extra few millions here and there wherever its possible eg 2% ticket hike, having an official donut partner, having an official postage partner - all trivial, mental things but together they add up and are needed to try and stay competitive.

City on the other hand just have to invent stupid lines on a spreadsheet or move a decimal point around.

[Kenny's Jacket]

This is understandably a very emotive and sensitive subject.
And unless there's an unlikely introduction of a player cap I wonder if there's no right or wrong on the current situation.
Because this is correctand this is also correct....
Hear me out.
Particularly because we have a recently fresh cost of living thread on RAWK. It's hitting us all.

Put aside income for a minute, lets talk about expenditure.
Does anyone remember when Tony Barrett got his job at the club? Flippin hec it was a few years ago. After a few months he was interviewed on a podcast and I'm not sure what the exact question was but it was about spending. His answer was simple and he clearly understood the inside/background of the business. It's all about budgeting. There's a budget for dozens of accounts outside of the playing and managerial staff. Even when a ball isn't being kicked. Community work, the LFC Foundation, miscellaneous subjects, sponsorship, etc etc.

But lets look at a typical match day, and I'm not being snide saying anyone that goes to the game will understand it more. The amount of staff involved inside & outside of the ground is startling. Police and security. Stewarding to a high level. Ground-staff. Etc etc. It's an enormous operation and is not funded for 90 minutes, probably more like 5 hours.

Do we want the Liverpool Football Club staff to have a pay freeze?
Do we want those people that serve the club during irregular hours to have a 2% or perhaps more than a 2% wage increase?
What did everyone get this year?

Is anything that the club is buying not increasing in cost - no.
Do we have astute procurement policies so our margins are as good as they can be - probably.
Did we lose out from CL revenue this year - yes.

Clearly the club are also being squeezed, so our question is how do they find savings or economies. Under the current football climate if they apply it to current player salaries or potential player signings which might impact on-field results would be heavily criticised by our entire fan base.

Can we get lower interest rates on the capital expenditure on the ground improvement - No (don't go there Al).
Can we pay less dividends to owners or shareholders - doesn't seem so.

I understand the proportionality of matchday income compared to the overall business size and also the increased revenue from the stadium capacity and hospitality, I'm just freshening the discussion.

If we want tickets prices frozen or reduced while expecting stadium staff to be paid satisfactorily in the face of inexorable rising costs, we either reduce players wages or we demand higher sponsorship deals within the parameters of our own decency.

I'm not being flippant but what if the Anny Rd was named the McNasty's stand. Would you take that or the the 2%?
It's not an irrelevant subject.

Which and what is going to be stretched?

Just asking 

Good post John.

To be perfectly honest I can afford the increases, but Im very annoyed at paying for the right to buy tickets, surely you scrap that. If that revenue is essential to the club (it isnt) then put it on the ticket price, because not everyone who buys a membership gets a ticket, and I say that as a guaranteed 13+ member

Who thinks the amount of staff we have is OTT.  Do we really need  those people walking around the ground with those backpack things.  Are they there for the Tourist and day trippers?

The amount of stewards in the disabled sections is bonkers. 
That said I dont want people to lose their job, Id rather players were paid less, except I wouldnt cos I want Mo and Virgil and Ali at the club.

Wage cap anyone?

Maybe FSG could take a few quid out of the billions they are going to make from us. That definitely sounds the best plan

[vblfc]

It could be fantastic PR for any business choosing to specifically sponsor ticket subsidies and I'm sure most fans would tolerate an ad appearing on the ticket app or emails relating to ticketing. "Your £30 match ticket sponsored by Apple" would be perfectly acceptable IMO.

I think this is a great idea.

[BCCC]

If you ran your own business, would you let the customers decide on how you run it?

Just asking

No you wouldn't but it would be they that decide whether it's successful.

Unfortunately some businesses recognise that their customers are hostages and have to suck up what the business decides.

Until they hit a breaking point.

[rob1966]

It could be fantastic PR for any business choosing to specifically sponsor ticket subsidies and I'm sure most fans would tolerate an ad appearing on the ticket app or emails relating to ticketing. "Your £30 match ticket sponsored by Apple" would be perfectly acceptable IMO.

Great idea that.

One other one, "here you are Mo, £435,000 per week for your new contract". So its 5K a week less than his reported salary, but its £20k a month or £220,000 that could be put into keeping the tickets frozen. Do this with all the players and its £2m quid or more, I'm sure they could cope, seeing as they are all multimillionaires as it is

[Butcher Knife Roberto]

Great idea that.

One other one, "here you are Mo, £435,000 per week for your new contract". So its 5K a week less than his reported salary, but its £20k a month or £220,000 that could be put into keeping the tickets frozen. Do this with all the players and its £2m quid or more, I'm sure they could cope, seeing as they are all multimillionaires as it is

Let us not forget that the insane contracts are negotiated by the parasitic agents who took over £400M of club money in the past year across the PL. For what? We wouldn't have half of the financial issues in the game if it wasn't for these people, driving up the costs so that their share is nice and fat. If the game wants to sort out its finances and go some way to making it affordable again for fans it could make a good start by banning these parasites.

[rob1966]

Let us not forget that the insane contracts are negotiated by the parasitic agents who took over £400M of club money in the past year across the PL. For what? We wouldn't have half of the financial issues in the game if it wasn't for these people, driving up the costs so that their share is nice and fat. If the game wants to sort out its finances and go some way to making it affordable again for fans it could make a good start by banning these parasites.

I was think that a few minutes ago, fuck these leeches off, greedy bastards with fuck all talent

[Butcher Knife Roberto]

I was think that a few minutes ago, fuck these leeches off, greedy bastards with fuck all talent

The only talent they have is holding clubs to ransom with wage demands and whispering in the ears of young lads that if they trust them they can make them the next Messi/Ronaldo/whoever. The whole thing needs regulating so that not only are clubs not bent over a table, but these same young lads are not taken advantage of. I doubt any of those same agents will care a shit about the welfare of players once they retire.

Rather than lining the pockets of parasites, that £31.5M we spent in the past year could go a long way to increasing the wages of the cleaners, canteen staff, concessions staff and matchday stewards, without whom the games wouldn't take place at all.

[rob1966]

The only talent they have is holding clubs to ransom with wage demands and whispering in the ears of young lads that if they trust them they can make them the next Messi/Ronaldo/whoever. The whole thing needs regulating so that not only are clubs not bent over a table, but these same young lads are not taken advantage of. I doubt any of those same agents will care a shit about the welfare of players once they retire.

Rather than lining the pockets of parasites, that £31.5M we spent in the past year could go a long way to increasing the wages of the cleaners, canteen staff, concessions staff and matchday stewards, without whom the games wouldn't take place at all.

Yeah, the game needs to get its house in order and get rid of these. £31.5m in fees is obscene

[Jshooters]

Yeah, the game needs to get its house in order and get rid of these. £31.5m in fees is obscene

It’s insane that the club pays the agent rather than the player paying them out of their wages

[Lfcameron7]

Surprised there hasn’t been bigger backlash to this, the protests should step up otherwise we've just given in.