Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - THE OLD (CRAP) THREAD THAT'S GOING IN THE BIN

[Hazell]

Did i miss anything today, no?

Diet Coke break. Roy was looking particularly hot today.

[DonkeyWan]

Nah. You’ve lost me now. We had a preposterous volume of injuries to key players last season. One of them was (for me) the best player in the league, fair enough, but there was far more to last season than Pickford’s assault.

Do you know we underperformed our own XG during that spell of consecutive losses by around the same as we outperformed it at our peak? Flip the story round and you could say we managed to find a way to hit league winning form without those key players being available.

I do think we’ll sign a player or two but even if we didn’t we’d be in a far stronger position than last year - the only intangible is Wijnaldum’s absence.

I think it's more than optimistic to believe we can just naturally return to the level we were at in 2019/20. In terms of the one injury point, the problems that occurred stemmed from that injury. Firstly, the issues were seeded during the summer when Liverpool started the season with just 3 CBs. Then, in a short period of time both VVD and Gomez got injured. Now, had it just been Gomezz (like had occurred in previous seasons) Liverpool, I believe could have got by. But with VVD injured it had a domino effect in terms of both playing personnel (with Matip unable to keep playing game after game, requiring midfielders to cover etc.) but mostly in terms of the structure of the back four.  Without his leadership they fell apart. For me it was the injury to VVD that stood apart from the usual injuries and the problems with Covid that all teams had to deal with. Which it's why I point to it as the critical problem that caused the team to spiral so badly downwards. To offer a counterfactual argument, does anyone believe the season would have been so bad had it been Philips and not VVD that got injured?

As to the question of why I keep banging on about the magic number 30, it's because the club itself do exactly the same, once a player passes 30 they start offering 1 year contract extensions and become enmeshed in protracted negotiations, not always successfully. Wijnaldum is a case in point, he couldn't reach an agreement on his contract and ended up winding it down. There is also the point that most players peak around 27-29 and after that begin to decline, so having about 8 players reach that point together from the squad will mean an overall downturn. It's not just about 1 or 2 players turning 30, it's about Salah, Mane, VDV, Henderson, Thiago, Firmino, Milner, Shaquiri and Matip all turning 30 together. Which brings me to image below. Namely what our squad would look like if we started the season now. I have divided into what most people would accept is the first team and then the cover. Continuining with my 30 year old obsession I have highlighted the players that turn 30 (or are are already 30+) the coming season. Salah is 15 June, just for transparency.



Now, it may very well be that Liverpool cruise right on through the season, regally dispatching teams hither and thither. Or it may be that crucial players pick up injuries and the whole thing fizzles out like last season. What I believe to be true (and I think this image shows it) is that after the first 11 there are a lot of gaps in the team. An injury to the FBs means trouble. An injury to any one CB/midfelder means the team becomes dependent on injury prone players like Keita, Ox, Matip. An injury to 1 forward means Jota and no experienced subs to turn a game we are struggling in. Sounds familiar? It's been said for many transfer windows now and I would argue that a lot of the problems encountered last season were founded in the failures of previous transfer windows.

People are saying that Elliott (18) and Jones (20) can fill those gaps, but that's a pretty tall order for two such inexperienced players, asking them to do a lot next season is unfair. And then what, Minamino? Ojo? Origi? Shaquiri? Shaquiri can help, but is probably off. The rest? Hardly convincing, is it?

There is no room for error and a whole lot of inexperience.

[G Richards]

PS - Man Utd. Can't stand them. Whole thing is run on a pile of debt. They are being hollowed out from within. They appear to keep the wolf away from the front door, but the model isn't sustainable. As more and more debt is added they will consume themselves.

Still, what have they have done this summer?

Varane - good player, possibly gone off the boil a bit. Improves them, if he plays well, but I would rather have Konate.
Sancho - very good signing, and quite possibly a player who will put up numbers in terms of goals and assists that will help them for many years to come.

I would have liked Sancho at Liverpool. The fee was probably beyond us, and the wages definitely were.

Man Utd finished ahead of us last season, but let's not kid ourselves. Once we couldn't win the title we imploded and went into a tailspin of horrible form, with a whole myriad of circumstances coming together - multiple injuries in one position, midfielders put in defence to shore it up, the whole team and balance thus being weakened, and no fans to boot... for us, more than most, there is a special bond between players and fans, and that cost us.

Even so, we regrouped towards the last part of the season, putting a good run together to make sure we finished in the CL spots, and when we played Man Utd we beat them easily. Over the whole of last season we didn't show we were better than them, for reasons already stated, but in a do or die sort of game, we bossed them, no problem.

I fully expect us to finish above them this coming season. But we will look higher than that, and Man City will be the ones to overhaul again, and we can't rule Chelsea out either. Man Utd will be fourth. Sancho won't win much, but he will collect a lot of dough while the Clampetts continue to hollow them out.

[Sarge]

Diet Coke break. Roy was looking particularly hot today.

Roy is always looking hot. In that pale Scotting skinned way.

[wige]

No point discussing with you further if that’s what you’re inferring from what I’ve said.

Not once did I say the squad should have been overhauled. You’ve clearly not bothered thinking about what I’ve said before throwing your ‘some people should get a hobby’ post out there

I know many are still feeling the effects of the last decade or so when we’ve lost our best players to the likes of Barcelona, Madrid, but we need to stop thinking like underdogs and just being thankful that no one has left. You build on what you have. Like City have every summer, and what Chelsea are going to do after their CL win.

With the exception of the summer post the 18/19 season (when we did Elliot and Van Den Berg, and then Minamino in January) we've strengthened every season under Klopp as well though?

[Machae]

Snip

Good post, there was also the requirement to play our most effective midfielder in defence, along with Henderson which affected our overall game

[Hazell]

Roy is always looking hot. In that pale Scotting skinned way.

Can't argue with that.

[royhendo]

I'll not post any more after this. You're making your view nice and clear and even if I don't agree, it's nice reading your posts.

I think it's more than optimistic to believe we can just naturally return to the level we were at in 2019/20.

To be fair, that level was the highest ebb in the club's history in performance terms. If it hits that level again it'll be incredible.

I wouldn't dispute that Van Dijk getting injured was the big turning point, but if Gomez doesn't get injured on England duty, we're in a different place.

The squad is ageing. There's no disputing that.

What I believe to be true (and I think this image shows it) is that after the first 11 there are a lot of gaps in the team. An injury to the FBs means trouble. An injury to any one CB/midfelder means the team becomes dependent on injury prone players like Keita, Ox, Matip. An injury to 1 forward means Jota and no experienced subs to turn a game we are struggling in. Sounds familiar? It's been said for many transfer windows now and I would argue that a lot of the problems encountered last season were founded in the failures of previous transfer windows.

That's a Klopp squad though. He wants it that way. With the squad fit, he only arguably wants two changes to the profile - a Werner and possibly a Wijnaldum.

We're offloading to clear the decks and thus far we've raised a lot of funds via sales of fringe players. I refuse to believe we're not in control of exactly how far we invest in cover. They've a history of leaving themselves short in favour of getting the exact player they're after - that's the one thing that's not changed and the Werner saga is the only instance of it not playing out the way they wanted - well, Fekir too I guess, but that was different.

I think Klopp is at the wheel and says when he's not happy. I don't think I can add anything to that.

[TepidT2O]

You see Kaide Gordon and you wonder how highly he’s rated at the club….

Because  things like that can really alter transfer plans

[Samie]

Kaide and Musialowski are in the same batch with Harvey Elliott.

[Sarge]

Kaide and Musialowski are in the same batch with Harvey Elliott.

Not seen those two yet whats the crack with them?

[So… Howard Philips]

No point discussing with you further if that’s what you’re inferring from what I’ve said.

Not once did I say the squad should have been overhauled. You’ve clearly not bothered thinking about what I’ve said before throwing your ‘some people should get a hobby’ post out there

I know many are still feeling the effects of the last decade or so when we’ve lost our best players to the likes of Barcelona, Madrid, but we need to stop thinking like underdogs and just being thankful that no one has left. You build on what you have. Like City have every summer, and what Chelsea are going to do after their CL win.

Two clubs whose spending is a means to entrench a dubious regime and a dubious kleptocrat.

[rossipersempre]

You know its going to be a painfully long slow M25 gridlock of a no news day when some French outlet actually tries to link us to an infamously apathetic sloth represented by an even more infamously vampiric slug, that currently (and under some duress it seems) plays for Man United.

Fair enough, the French are much better known for their (lack of) personal hygiene and legendary rudeness than their sense of irony or indeed any form of comedy, but seriously like… Paul Pogba FFS.

[TepidT2O]

Not seen those two yet whats the crack with them?

Gordon looks as good as Elliot to be honest.. but being so young there’s so much development still to do.

[rossipersempre]

Kaide and Musialowski are in the same batch with Harvey Elliott.

You had me at “…owski”.

[tubby]

Gordon looks as good as Elliot to be honest.. but being so young there’s so much development still to do.

Think that's a bit of a reach.  He looks promising but Elliott has done it at Championship level at the age of 17 and Gordon looks super raw in comparison and hasn't really filled out yet either.

[FowlerLegend]

You see Kaide Gordon and you wonder how highly he’s rated at the club….

Because  things like that can really alter transfer plans

First time have had the chance to see him tonight and he looks like he will be some player.
It's interesting how he never gets mentioned by Klopp which makes you wonder whether it's deliberate by the club to keep the pressure/attention off him.

[TepidT2O]

Think that's a bit of a reach.  He looks promising but Elliott has done it at Championship level at the age of 17 and Gordon looks super raw in comparison and hasn't really filled out yet either.

He’s still only 16 though.

[tubby]

He’s still only 16 though.

Exactly.  Way too early to say he looks as good as Elliott.

[El Lobo]

You had me at “…owski”.

Messi/Lewandowski hybrid

[Sarge]

The Polish lad good?

[TepidT2O]

The Polish lad good?

Certainty fun to watch, really good dribbler….. he will make it as a pro, but I wonder if he’s a bit too Smicer for top level footie..

[Sarge]

Certainty fun to watch, really good dribbler….. he will make it as a pro, but I wonder if he’s a bit too Smicer for top level footie..

Cool thanks.

[Hazell]

The Polish lad good?

A generational talent.

[MD1990]

Gordon looks as good as Elliot to be honest.. but being so young there’s so much development still to do.

I said this months ago that he will be better than Elliott & was laughed at on here by some.

Gordon looks more so a forward. Elliott an attacking midfielder

[Sarge]

A generational talent.

Mmmmmmmmmm.

[Knight]

He's also tiny still. Physically he needs a year or two.

[rossipersempre]

but I wonder if he’s a bit too Smicer for top level footie..

I thought the very same thing of Vladi when he wound up to let fly with his right in Istanbul.

[Sarge]

He's also tiny still. Physically he needs a year or two.

Which one?

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Gordon needs to be eating concrete

[Dave McCoy]

No point discussing with you further if that’s what you’re inferring from what I’ve said.

Not once did I say the squad should have been overhauled. You’ve clearly not bothered thinking about what I’ve said before throwing your ‘some people should get a hobby’ post out there

I know many are still feeling the effects of the last decade or so when we’ve lost our best players to the likes of Barcelona, Madrid, but we need to stop thinking like underdogs and just being thankful that no one has left. You build on what you have. Like City have every summer, and what Chelsea are going to do after their CL win.

So you were being facetious when you stated that Klopp didn't expect the same squad 2 years later but with a couple of changes?  You posted it right after one of DW's posts so I assumed you were agreeing with that but if not then my bad.

[disgraced cake]

On top of those youngsters I think Balagizi looks quality too. Some benefit from loans while others don't, and I think he is the type who could really impress if he went out to a lower league side for minutes. I think if he's playing in the u23 league he'll take the piss in some games. Really exciting player.

[JackWard33]

Nah. You’ve lost me now. We had a preposterous volume of injuries to key players last season. One of them was (for me) the best player in the league, fair enough, but there was far more to last season than Pickford’s assault.

Do you know we underperformed our own XG during that spell of consecutive losses by around the same as we outperformed it at our peak? Flip the story round and you could say we managed to find a way to hit league winning form without those key players being available.

I do think we’ll sign a player or two but even if we didn’t we’d be in a far stronger position than last year - the only intangible is Wijnaldum’s absence.

We’re clearly going to be a strong team - but for me the big intangible is the fitness of key players

Our first choice midfield were fit for 6 weeks at the same time last season and barely played together
Our two high priced ‘8’s have major fitness concerns
And our first choice centre back pairing are recovering from serious knee injuries and aren’t fit to start the season
You could add one or two others performance dipping due to ageing depending on your view

There’s a good version where they all stay or get fit but there’s also a lot of uncertainty - especially if the mission is to win the league this season where there won’t be much margin for error (it’s all less of a concern for top 4 as we’ve proved we can lose half a first team and still do that)

[Barefoot Doctor]

I was of the mind we needed a more advanced midfielder - maybe someone like Aouar - but it seems we like Elliott in midfield. In that case, would we expect to go for someone who can operate a little deeper?

[DonkeyWan]

I'll not post any more after this. You're making your view nice and clear and even if I don't agree, it's nice reading your posts.

To be fair, that level was the highest ebb in the club's history in performance terms. If it hits that level again it'll be incredible.

I wouldn't dispute that Van Dijk getting injured was the big turning point, but if Gomez doesn't get injured on England duty, we're in a different place.

The squad is ageing. There's no disputing that.

That's a Klopp squad though. He wants it that way. With the squad fit, he only arguably wants two changes to the profile - a Werner and possibly a Wijnaldum.

We're offloading to clear the decks and thus far we've raised a lot of funds via sales of fringe players. I refuse to believe we're not in control of exactly how far we invest in cover. They've a history of leaving themselves short in favour of getting the exact player they're after - that's the one thing that's not changed and the Werner saga is the only instance of it not playing out the way they wanted - well, Fekir too I guess, but that was different.

I think Klopp is at the wheel and says when he's not happy. I don't think I can add anything to that.

All fair and I hope you are right. I find it all a little nerve-wracking in truth, but I was never a glass-half-full kind of guy. At least it's nice to have a reasoned discussion about it!

[MD1990]

Ox hasnt played a min of pre season in midfield. Looked quite good as a #9.

Wonder will we target a midfield player as apiority ahead of a forward.

[DonkeyWan]

Not seen those two yet whats the crack with them?

I have to say, having seen Musialowski (I have LFC TV) he looks the real deal. I mean, just a standout player. Quick feet, technique, a real eye for a pass and an ability to run at defences and score. I have read some on here say he looks small (and he isn't big, no) but he looks strong, a solid build to him. Looks terrific.

[rossipersempre]

All fair and I hope you are right. I find it all a little nerve-wracking in truth, but I was never a glass-half-full kind of guy. At least it's nice to have a reasoned discussion about it!

There’ll be plenty of time for postmortems and recriminations IF your (to be fair, rational) fears pan out over the next 10 months.

Worrying about future events you have absolutely zero control over, however, is really not healthy.

[Raid]

Certainty fun to watch, really good dribbler….. he will make it as a pro, but I wonder if he’s a bit too Smicer for top level footie..

I’d take a Smicer in the squad

[Chris~]

Ox hasnt played a min of pre season in midfield. Looked quite good as a #9.

Wonder will we target a midfield player as apiority ahead of a forward.

Guess it depends on how much trust Klopp has in some players. Elliott being added to the midfield rotation, Jones setting more minutes and then whatever we can get from Keita/Ox/Milner is probably enough to go with Thiago, Henderson and Fabinho. Although probably needs a more defensive option going forward to add to the latter three (or to be ready to replace Henderson).

I'd still prefer another forward over a midfielder, think that gets us more points over a season