Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - THE OLD (CRAP) THREAD THAT'S GOING IN THE BIN

[cdav]

Kevin Palmer (not the most reliable, but backs up what others have said).

Kevin Palmer has really boxed off the moaners on twitter this summer- giving them the goods. Don't think any journalist knows what is going on to be honest

[Samie]

https://www.calciomercato.com/news/real-madrid-isco-e-sul-mercato-prezzo-fissato-20734

We and AC Milan want Isco. 

[Gerry Attrick]

Kevin Palmer has really boxed off the moaners on twitter this summer- giving them the goods. Don't think any journalist knows what is going on to be honest

It ties in with what other journalists are writing about how we're not wanting everybody to get old together. It's also absolutely right to not hand them out just because of what they've done before. It's a recipe for disaster dishing big contracts out to every late 20s/early 30 player on your books.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

https://www.calciomercato.com/news/real-madrid-isco-e-sul-mercato-prezzo-fissato-20734

We and AC Milan want Isco. 

Hope not.

[disgraced cake]

Kevin Palmer (not the most reliable, but backs up what others have said).

ALL of those players deserve new contracts, regardless of whether we bring in a new player or not this summer. I don't mind having to sell some players on to bring new ones in, but if we can't offer world class players in their best years new deals, whilst years into a sell to buy model, that'd be fucking depressing quite frankly.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

It ties in with what other journalists are writing about how we're not wanting everybody to get old together. It's also absolutely right to not hand them out just because of what they've done before. It's a recipe for disaster dishing big contracts out to every late 20s/early 30 player on your books.

I imagine Henderson and Firmino won't be getting new ones/or signing what they're offered.

I can't imagine we aren't looking to extend Van Dijk, Becker and one of Salah/Mane [hopefully they both do but Salah imo is a must]

[TepidT2O]

ALL of those players deserve new contracts, regardless of whether we bring in a new player or not this summer. I don't mind having to sell some players on to bring new ones in, but if we can't offer world class players in their best years new deals, whilst years into a sell to buy model, that'd be fucking depressing quite frankly.

Well it’s not that easy….

You end up with old players on really big wages and you can’t then afford to replace them.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

ALL of those players deserve new contracts, regardless of whether we bring in a new player or not this summer. I don't mind having to sell some players on to bring new ones in, but if we can't offer world class players in their best years new deals, whilst years into a sell to buy model, that'd be fucking depressing quite frankly.

It's not about being able to offer them new deals, it's about not having more than half of your first XI growing old together and making it harder to shift extremely high wages later on.

Not all of them should get new contracts.

[Gerry Attrick]

ALL of those players deserve new contracts, regardless of whether we bring in a new player or not this summer. I don't mind having to sell some players on to bring new ones in, but if we can't offer world class players in their best years new deals, whilst years into a sell to buy model, that'd be fucking depressing quite frankly.

The best football teams don't make decisions based on sentiment, whether that depresses you or not. Right now you might think it's the right thing to do but let's see how you feel in a couple of years when they're not as good, nobody wants to buy them because they're on insane wages in their 30s and we have no financial wiggle room because of it. That would be depressing to me.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

If I was guessing, it'll be Henderson and Firmino that don't get one. Rumours already about Henderson not getting a long contract and Firmino isn't as invaluable now as he was.

Would not have guessed you would think Firmino would not be re-upped?  Who knew you had that opinion

This Henderson stuff feels like a smokescreen --- no way the club does not invest in the club captain.  They are not made everyday.   

While I am sure we have many ready to take the helm (Trend, VVD and others), I really cannot fathom Henderson leaving our club any time in the next three or four years.   It is not right.

So in the absence of information, I choose to believe its a smokescreen --- for what I have zero idea.

[Samie]

If Bob Paisley was in charge of this current team some of those lads would be sold next week. That's how ruthless he was according to my old man and gramps.

[Schmidt]

ALL of those players deserve new contracts, regardless of whether we bring in a new player or not this summer. I don't mind having to sell some players on to bring new ones in, but if we can't offer world class players in their best years new deals, whilst years into a sell to buy model, that'd be fucking depressing quite frankly.

It's not that simple and it's silly to get so negative about it without knowing the details of each contract we've offered, players could be demanding ridiculous wages and stupidly long contracts and that's why things have stalled out. Henderson has 2 years on his contract still and will be 33 when it's up, do we really want to throw big wages at him just for him to potentially spend multiple seasons on the periphery of the squad while being paid huge wages?

[Chris~]

This Henderson stuff feels like a smokescreen --- no way the club does not invest in the club captain.  They are not made everyday.   

Isn't this what happened with Gerrard, we weren't sure about extending, he wanted to keep playing and decided to leave?

I think we try get the ones mentioned signed up as they make the most sense along with Fabinho given age, position and their performances. Wouldn't be surprised if Mane or Salah hold out and see if they can get huge money on a free elsewhere, which is fair enough

[RyanBabel19]

Mane or Salah going on a free would be utter madness

[deFacto please, you bastards]

We have offered Henderson a contract, but it's not the terms that he likes if we were to believe what's been reported [and that we are giving him a contract based on his appearances at the latter stages of the deal]

[Samie]

Mane or Salah going on a free would be utter madness

Where does it say that?

[Trendisnotdestiny]

If Bob Paisley was in charge of this current team some of those lads would be sold next week. That's how ruthless he was according to my old man and gramps.

Admiring ruthlessness often ignores loyalty and in the 1960's & 1970's the game was changing so much that it made sense.

But we live in a different moment in the modern game, where the differentials between the greatest and the good are not as pronounced - and this issue of player disposability, ROI, and the next bigger better deal become fantastical poisons eroding soccer and club culture until all we have is shitshow of ESL teams rubbing themselves about their greatness.

No one is having a go at those in the past here, fowler knows I love them, but in the present moment we should avoid becoming stat geek fantasy farm outfit, who is constantly forgetting that people matter.  If Jurgen has taught us anything, it is this.

[RyanBabel19]

Where does it say that?

I was replying to the post directly before mine

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Isn't this what happened with Gerrard, we weren't sure about extending, he wanted to keep playing and decided to leave?

I think we try get the ones mentioned signed up as they make the most sense along with Fabinho given age, position and their performances. Wouldn't be surprised if Mane or Salah hold out and see if they can get huge money on a free elsewhere, which is fair enough

How old was Stevie when this happened?  I do remember this discussion from back then, but in the back of my mind, it felt like he was further down the road to retirement.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Admiring ruthlessness often ignores loyalty and in the 1960's & 1970's the game was changing so much that it made sense.

But we live in a different moment in the modern game, where the differentials between the greatest and the good are not as pronounced - and this issue of player disposability, ROI, and the next bigger better deal become fantastical poisons eroding soccer and club culture until all we have is shitshow of ESL teams rubbing themselves about their greatness.

No one is having a go at those in the past here, fowler knows I love them, but in the present moment we should avoid becoming stat geek fantasy farm outfit, who is constantly forgetting that people matter.  If Jurgen has taught us anything, it is this.

People do matter of course, but there is also the football aspect and planning for the future. We don't have the luxury where we can't worry about the financial aspect when these players all age together. Even Klopp knows this, and even he's alluded to ''good football age'' in the past.

In an ideal situation they all end their careers here, but that isn't going to happen. Out of those listed, I hope Van Dijk,Becker,Salah/Mane at least extend if two aren't for whatever reason.

If we can't reach an agreement in the next year then we'll have to think about offloading them. Losing any of those on a free would be madness potentially.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

We have offered Henderson a contract, but it's not the terms that he likes if we were to believe what's been reported [and that we are giving him a contract based on his appearances at the latter stages of the deal]

This might be 100% spot on, but I always felt that Henderson's re-up (which is 2 years away) - that the club and Hendo have time.

Whereas there are some here Salah, Alisson etc..  that need to be extended ASAP.  This is what I perceived to be the issue --- that Henderson was in line for a contract but his offer at present might not reflect the what the club might be able to do next year.   Or at least I am hoping as such...   

[Hazell]

Mane or Salah going on a free would be utter madness

Neuhaus in the middle of our midfield three would be madness.

[Boaty McBoatface]

How old was Stevie when this happened?  I do remember this discussion from back then, but in the back of my mind, it felt like he was further down the road to retirement.

IIRC Stevie was reluctant to being phased out into a support role, like Milner does for us now. He still felt (rightly or wrongly) he should be starting more often than not. I feel the club were complacent in thinking they'd come to a compromise but Stevie had already started exploring other options by then.

[Boaty McBoatface]

Neuhaus in the middle of our midfield three would be madness.

You're an embarrassment.

[El Lobo]

We literally gave Lallana a contract extension not to play, just so he was around when we won the league. So the whole ‘sentiment doesn’t exist’ thing doesn’t completely ring true.

[Hazell]

You're an embarrassment.

A bit harsh

[Boaty McBoatface]

A bit harsh

Sorry, I went one step beyond.

[royhendo]

Just gotta hope Mo doesn’t pine for the banks of the river Nile.

[killer-heels]

Alisson, Fabinho and Salah must get new contracts. It’s not even a debate.

Van Dijk should as well but the injury issue is a small question mark.

Mane, Henderson and Firmino is more of a question, especially Firmino and Henderson.

[JerseyKloppite]

https://www.calciomercato.com/news/real-madrid-isco-e-sul-mercato-prezzo-fissato-20734

We and AC Milan want Isco. 

Won’t happen. At 29 he’s completely the wrong age profile for our next midfielder.

[Boaty McBoatface]

https://www.calciomercato.com/news/real-madrid-isco-e-sul-mercato-prezzo-fissato-20734

We and AC Milan want Isco. 

Can't see us mentioned Samie. Unless you're using the royal We.

[Hazell]

Sorry, I went one step beyond.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

[Peabee]

Admiring ruthlessness often ignores loyalty and in the 1960's & 1970's the game was changing so much that it made sense.

But we live in a different moment in the modern game, where the differentials between the greatest and the good are not as pronounced - and this issue of player disposability, ROI, and the next bigger better deal become fantastical poisons eroding soccer and club culture until all we have is shitshow of ESL teams rubbing themselves about their greatness.

No one is having a go at those in the past here, fowler knows I love them, but in the present moment we should avoid becoming stat geek fantasy farm outfit, who is constantly forgetting that people matter.  If Jurgen has taught us anything, it is this.

A business can't pay someone millions per year out of sentiment. It's not like they'll struggle if they moved on or had a lower wage as they get older. FSG prefer performance based pay, which is why our wage bill was one of the highest in 2019 and 2020 after the CL and PL wins.

[FowlerLegend]

Alisson, Fabinho and Salah must get new contracts. It’s not even a debate.

Van Dijk should as well but the injury issue is a small question mark.

Mane, Henderson and Firmino is more of a question, especially Firmino and Henderson.

The Athletic were saying of the front 3 that Mane and Salah will be offered extensions but Bobby won't.

[Dim Glas]

so he’s saying that money Klopp gets ‘offered’ to spend on players, he’s saying ‘no ta, use it for wages instead’?

[AmanShah21]

Contracts have to be the priority for us. That Trent extension is excellent news and hopefully the rest will follow. I doubt all of the front 3 will get/sign extensions because their current deals take them to 31, almost 32 for Bobby. Suspect Mo will get the extension and possibly Mane later in the season. I do hope we can reach some sort of agreement with regards to Hendo. Its not just sentimental, Hendo is a darn good football player who is underrated massively. Plus he has far more value in non-footballing terms as well.

I said it before, the rest of our incoming business will be later in the window once the outgoings are a bit clearer. To be more precise, I'd bet we'll start seeing movement once Shaq is shifted out. For midfield, I think we're trying to see if Elliott can make the cut there and with him, Naby, Curtis, Milner and Ox we have enough bodies and quality to fill that Gini shaped hole. Its not ideal but you do need to have some space/minutes open to bring through the younger lads.

[Djozer]

The Athletic were saying of the front 3 that Mane and Salah will be offered extensions but Bobby won't.

Sort of makes sense given Bobby's last two seasons' worth of form. He hasn't been terrible, but can understand the club's position there. I know there's a bit of a thing on this forum taking the piss out of the idea that players after the age of 30 are worthless, and I agree up to a point. At the same time many footballers, even in this day and age of hyper professionalism, do tend to decline somewhat from that age or a bit older and so it seems sensible not to offer pay rises and long contracts unless you're near certain said players will carry on performing well into the future.

It was always going to be interesting to see what the club did regarding the aging team and the renewals. Seems harsh in a way, but I guess sentiment shouldn't really play a part in the decision making process. The new contracts that do happen should be celebrated, but unfortunately it'll never be as exciting for some as shiny new signings, even if it maybe should be.

That said, buy some bloody players you cheapskates.

[macmanamanaman]

Who has a better story than Sean Dundee?

This ending will fix many things

[Fromola]

so he’s saying that money Klopp gets ‘offered’ to spend on players, he’s saying ‘no ta, use it for wages instead’?

I think back in 2019 his priority after the CL win and 97 point season was keeping the team he had together, after what happened to him at Dortmund. (and losing Coutinho in 2018). Therefore we had a lot of renewals that summer and Klopp was happy to keep what he had, rather than buy x, y and z.  Even the squad as well, given that we could have gone out and got a 4th forward in but instead gave Origi a new contract after his late season heroics (could have cashed in). Given Moreno and Sturridge left that year we didn't replace them though but did get Adrian in to replace Mignolet.

Klopp isn't someone who likes signing players for the sake of signing players but when there's a real need.