Author Topic: Putting on weight/muscle  (Read 214704 times)

Offline 6BigCups

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #120 on: June 25, 2010, 08:34:11 am »
whats a skull crusher. iv an nvq in fitness instructing and iv never heard of one  ???

really? its one of the more standard exercises to be honest. Maybe you just call it something else?

It's a tricep exercise. Lie flat on your back, holding a hammer bar over your head with the bis/tris at 90' to the body. Keep the upper arm still, and bend at the elbow to dip the weights over your hear until your elbow is at 90'. Raise.

Do not drop, else you will have a very sore head, or a marginal case of death.

Pretty much that, though i prefer to use the EZ bar on a narrow grip to do this myself, probably just dont to preference though.

It's worth noting that your elbows don't necessarily always have to be at 90degrees. One of the good things about skull crushers is the fact that you can work the 3 different parts of your triceps without too much adjustment. One way is to bend it back over your head completely whilst keeping your arms relatively straight (but not locked out of course), another way is as you said - bend your arms to about 90 degrees so that the bar comes around by your forehead, then straighten, and the final way is to start off vertically and just bend your elbows so that it comes to around by your upper chest area, then straighten.

Always start the motion with your arms in a vertical position
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 08:36:32 am by 5BigCups »

Offline richiedouglas

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #121 on: June 25, 2010, 09:13:19 am »
Any suggestions for increasing lower arm size - forearms and wrist?

Always had painfully thin wrists which look entirely out of proportion to the rest of my body, and no matter what I do, I can seem to get any 'meat' on them.

wanking?

Offline Grobbelrevell

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #122 on: June 25, 2010, 09:19:11 am »
Any suggestions for increasing lower arm size - forearms and wrist?

Always had painfully thin wrists which look entirely out of proportion to the rest of my body, and no matter what I do, I can seem to get any 'meat' on them.

I know exactly where your coming from with the skinny wrists/forearms issue. Im naturally a slim build, have managed to gain about a stone and a half since i started hitting the gym properly but forearms are one area that just doesnt seem to grow!

For the last couple of weeks ive been making a concerted effort to try and tackle this, just adding a session of forearms in at the end of each gym session.

Ive been doing these:

5 x 8 Palm up barbell wrist curls
5 x 8 Palm down Barbell wrist curls

Ill sub these around though after a few weeks. Theres plenty of example forearm exercises on the link below as well.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/finder/lookup/filter/muscle/id/2/muscle/forearms
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Offline Grobbelrevell

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #123 on: June 25, 2010, 10:07:59 am »
Thanks mate, seems like the sort of thing I could do easily at home too.

I have a powerball as well, which I've never used properly, will that help at all?

Yea easily if you've got even a basic set of weights. If you've only got dumbbells, you could try standing, DB in either hand, arms by your side with palms facing inwards, and then roll the DB up your sides towards your armpits. Only bend your wrists though, not your elbows.

Ive never used a powerball to be honest. Cant imagine it would hurt though!
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Offline C

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #124 on: June 25, 2010, 11:03:56 am »
whats a skull crusher. iv an nvq in fitness instructing and iv never heard of one  ???
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Offline 6BigCups

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #125 on: June 25, 2010, 11:34:04 am »
Any suggestions for increasing lower arm size - forearms and wrist?

Always had painfully thin wrists which look entirely out of proportion to the rest of my body, and no matter what I do, I can seem to get any 'meat' on them.
I know exactly where your coming from with the skinny wrists/forearms issue. Im naturally a slim build, have managed to gain about a stone and a half since i started hitting the gym properly but forearms are one area that just doesnt seem to grow!

For the last couple of weeks ive been making a concerted effort to try and tackle this, just adding a session of forearms in at the end of each gym session.

Ive been doing these:

5 x 8 Palm up barbell wrist curls
5 x 8 Palm down Barbell wrist curls

Ill sub these around though after a few weeks. Theres plenty of example forearm exercises on the link below as well.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/finder/lookup/filter/muscle/id/2/muscle/forearms

This, and for the forearm I find that hammer curls on the dumbells, but with a twist on the extension works well. So on the down - twist outwards, back inwards, then up again

Offline ThepepeReina

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #126 on: June 27, 2010, 06:59:52 pm »
It's a tricep exercise. Lie flat on your back, holding a hammer bar over your head with the bis/tris at 90' to the body. Keep the upper arm still, and bend at the elbow to dip the weights over your hear until your elbow is at 90'. Raise.

Do not drop, else you will have a very sore head, or a marginal case of death.

so just a lying tricep extention then? thought it was gonna be something dead technical and boss :D
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Offline C

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #127 on: June 27, 2010, 09:56:55 pm »
you need some new material man, my nightly forearm exercises take 15 minutes tops.
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Offline kkhaku

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #128 on: June 27, 2010, 11:37:27 pm »
Got an hour put by for this forearm exercise tonight.

Fuck you all if I die.

Been reading the thread, and hate to state the bleeding obvious, but forearms and wrists are two different things.

If you're having to put in extra effort to make your forearms grow along with the rest of you, then your exercise selection at the gym needs modification. Your simply not doing enough compound exercises that require grip. Deadlifts for example. BB or DB rows. If those are in your routine you shouldn't need any extra forearm training. If you still do, then Grobbelrevell's idea of throwing in a forearm session at the end of your workout is a good idea.

As for your wrists, the problem is, bigger forearms are going to make them look smaller. (think popeye). Lot like the big calves make the ankles looks smaller. It depends a lot on the insertion point of the muscle. If it's high, a muscularly developed forearm will look like a grapefruit on a popsicle stick.

Wrist size is heavily influenced by genetics and very hard to alter. Think of it this way - in terms of your upper arm, it takes about 15lbs of body weight just to gain one inch around the arms. You're probably looking at 3 times that for your forearms and at least 5 times that for your wrists.
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Offline ThepepeReina

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #129 on: June 28, 2010, 12:00:57 am »
thats an awful lot of weight. i find my calves harder to grow than anything else. its apparently cause you can never rest them as your always walking.
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Offline buzzing

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #130 on: June 28, 2010, 12:28:04 am »
Right, due to building works at home, my weights n shit are cut off

I thought this may a be a good time to get rid of my gut

What is the actual best way....get toned then get rid (i.e. as you lift you'll work out so burn it off, meaning less to burn off after). Or should I lose it before hitting the weights again?

Also should i be taking any protein during non lifting periods (to stop body using muscle for it's supply)
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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #131 on: June 28, 2010, 12:53:21 am »
Right, due to building works at home, my weights n shit are cut off

I thought this may a be a good time to get rid of my gut

What is the actual best way....get toned then get rid (i.e. as you lift you'll work out so burn it off, meaning less to burn off after). Or should I lose it before hitting the weights again?

Also should i be taking any protein during non lifting periods (to stop body using muscle for it's supply)
AFAIK, doing weights doesn't burn fat. Cardio excercises over 40 minutes burn fat. And the muscles you want to work on are under your gut, so growing them pushes the fat out more, making your gut look worse. That means, lose your gut first (by eating less and going for a run for more than an hour three times a week or so), and then tone up.
You should be able to easily get all the protein you need from your normal food when you're not working out.
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Offline 6BigCups

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #132 on: June 28, 2010, 01:03:41 am »
Right, due to building works at home, my weights n shit are cut off

I thought this may a be a good time to get rid of my gut

What is the actual best way....get toned then get rid (i.e. as you lift you'll work out so burn it off, meaning less to burn off after). Or should I lose it before hitting the weights again?

Also should i be taking any protein during non lifting periods (to stop body using muscle for it's supply)

Best way to lose body fat is to perform a light jog lasting around 40minutes, very first thing in the morning (before breakfast).

That way you're burning your fat reserves straight away without having to burn any carbs etc to get to it.

When i say a light jog, i mean that as well. You need to get your heart going at the right bpm so that your optimum fat burning level is achieved. You jog too fast, and you're doing more cardio training than anything

Offline ThepepeReina

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #133 on: June 28, 2010, 02:04:57 am »
interval training. 100 metre flat out, walk for a minute then another 100... repeats 10 times, will make you fitter in a quicker amount of time than long distance runs, you can do it under 30 mins so u dont start burning muslce, and its that intense on ur body you still burn calories hours after youve finished. its apparently how all the footballers train, sprint up the touch line, walk down the goal mouth, repeat. try that for half an hour its a killer.
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Offline El Rey, por favor

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #134 on: June 28, 2010, 02:17:43 am »
Started the DW fitness gym nearby today, Just bought some Instant Oats, Creapure and Whey Protein from myprotein.co.uk after some advice and i'm going to mix my own protein shake. Tried doing the bench today, fucking killed me could only do 5kg on either side HAHA.

Just an update, now steady 10's either side, which is progress!! Put on a few lb's. Getting alot generally stronger and actually seeing an increase in size and definition. So far so good!
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Offline kkhaku

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #135 on: June 28, 2010, 03:01:37 am »
Where is this general concensus coming from that in order to burn fat you have to perform cardio exercise at a certain bpm for a certain amount of time, and nothing else will reallywork???

Unless you have major hormonal imbalances or are fighting hard against your genetics - the only rules you have to follow is regular intense exercise and a healthy balanced diet.

Weightlifting works, so does interval training, cycling, boxing, footie etc etc. Just get out there and do it - and work hard. You should be drained after a workout. It should be outside of your comfort level. It should challenge you mentally and physically. If it doesn't you're not working hard enough.

Your degree of fat loss will be determined by your diet more than anything else. Cut the carbs, especially in the evening, and increase the protein, and the good fats. Make sure you're working on a slight caloric defecit, drink copious amounts of water and green tea, and spend most of your food budget on fruits and veggies.

If you don't lose fat after that, THEN, you can start considering detailed methods like heart rate levels and macronutrient measuring etc.
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Offline 6BigCups

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #136 on: June 28, 2010, 10:31:29 am »
Where is this general concensus coming from that in order to burn fat you have to perform cardio exercise at a certain bpm for a certain amount of time, and nothing else will reallywork???

Unless you have major hormonal imbalances or are fighting hard against your genetics - the only rules you have to follow is regular intense exercise and a healthy balanced diet.

Weightlifting works, so does interval training, cycling, boxing, footie etc etc. Just get out there and do it - and work hard. You should be drained after a workout. It should be outside of your comfort level. It should challenge you mentally and physically. If it doesn't you're not working hard enough.

Your degree of fat loss will be determined by your diet more than anything else. Cut the carbs, especially in the evening, and increase the protein, and the good fats. Make sure you're working on a slight caloric defecit, drink copious amounts of water and green tea, and spend most of your food budget on fruits and veggies.

If you don't lose fat after that, THEN, you can start considering detailed methods like heart rate levels and macronutrient measuring etc.


Nah you've misunderstood me. Of course other things work! that's just silly to suggest otherwise. Though ask pretty much any physical trainer around would be able to tell you of the optimum 'training zone' for burning fat - likewise for improving cardio. It's not even that advanced as you suggest, its pretty standard. You don't have to monitor your heart rate to do this (though that'd be perfect), you just need to make sure that your heart is only going at around 50-60% of its maximum, therefore only jog at 50-60% of your normal speed - hence the light jog.

Infact, you wouldnt even have to ask a PT, i invite you to search it on google and any remotely informative site would be able to tell you the exact same i'm sure :wave

How do you think the logic behind the treamills and their 'fat burning' programmes work? they work exactly the same way mate.

If you want to have a better chance of improving cardio however, then you have to work harder than that. Works exactly the same.  :thumbup
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 10:34:34 am by 5BigCups »

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #137 on: June 28, 2010, 10:39:15 am »
I need to put on some body fat and am struggling to put any on, its winter where I am so this why I'm wanting to asap.

Ohh and I go to the gym twice a week to keep my muscle strength and fitness going through the winter...

Any ideas of what to eat, how best to go about it?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 10:40:55 am by BMW »

Offline kkhaku

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #138 on: June 28, 2010, 11:30:20 am »

Nah you've misunderstood me. Of course other things work! that's just silly to suggest otherwise. Though ask pretty much any physical trainer around would be able to tell you of the optimum 'training zone' for burning fat - likewise for improving cardio. It's not even that advanced as you suggest, its pretty standard. You don't have to monitor your heart rate to do this (though that'd be perfect), you just need to make sure that your heart is only going at around 50-60% of its maximum, therefore only jog at 50-60% of your normal speed - hence the light jog.

Infact, you wouldnt even have to ask a PT, i invite you to search it on google and any remotely informative site would be able to tell you the exact same i'm sure :wave

How do you think the logic behind the treamills and their 'fat burning' programmes work? they work exactly the same way mate.

If you want to have a better chance of improving cardio however, then you have to work harder than that. Works exactly the same.  :thumbup

I am a trainer mate ;)

I apologize, as I thought you were suggesting it was the 'best' way to get rid of fat.

What you're referring to is the bpm zone right before the aerobic zone. When exercising in this zone, your body takes most of the energy from fat reserves as opposed to carbohydrates.  You'll find though that many trainers out there will avoid this approach for two reasons:

Firstly, it kind of neglects the fat burning and other benefits of exercising in the above zones. Exercising with higher intensity does end up burning more calories, increasing your RMR, decreasing your RHR, improving V02 max etc etc.

Secondly, it makes your clients get 'comfortable' which is where you don't want them. Most trainees don't put in enough effort as it is, so to tell them to exercise at a low intensity is almost asking for laziness and tends to develop bad habits.

Personally, I think that exercising at that low an intensity is something that should be worked in as part of your program if other efforts aren't working in terms of fat burning. For example I had a client who was on a 6 month program before her wedding, and by month 4 we seemed to be making progress in every way except for the measuring tape around the midsection. The numbers were not going down fast enough. So we added two 40 minute sessions of low intensity cardio after her weight training days, and made some diet adjustments - and the numbers started to go down much faster.

Just my personal thoughts on the issue though - other trainers may have had results with it. I've just seen it do more harm than good.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 11:31:53 am by kkhaku »
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Offline 6BigCups

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #139 on: June 28, 2010, 01:23:41 pm »
I am a trainer mate ;)

I apologize, as I thought you were suggesting it was the 'best' way to get rid of fat.

What you're referring to is the bpm zone right before the aerobic zone. When exercising in this zone, your body takes most of the energy from fat reserves as opposed to carbohydrates.  You'll find though that many trainers out there will avoid this approach for two reasons:

Firstly, it kind of neglects the fat burning and other benefits of exercising in the above zones. Exercising with higher intensity does end up burning more calories, increasing your RMR, decreasing your RHR, improving V02 max etc etc.

Secondly, it makes your clients get 'comfortable' which is where you don't want them. Most trainees don't put in enough effort as it is, so to tell them to exercise at a low intensity is almost asking for laziness and tends to develop bad habits.

Personally, I think that exercising at that low an intensity is something that should be worked in as part of your program if other efforts aren't working in terms of fat burning. For example I had a client who was on a 6 month program before her wedding, and by month 4 we seemed to be making progress in every way except for the measuring tape around the midsection. The numbers were not going down fast enough. So we added two 40 minute sessions of low intensity cardio after her weight training days, and made some diet adjustments - and the numbers started to go down much faster.

Just my personal thoughts on the issue though - other trainers may have had results with it. I've just seen it do more harm than good.

thats sound then mate, not trying to tell you how to do your job or anything   ;)

personally i'd suggest doing both - low intensity first thing in the morning followed by high intensity in the afternoon/after dinner. As you say though, its down to the individual and whether or not they can motivate themselves/ be arsed to do this or not! :)

Offline Grobbelrevell

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #140 on: June 29, 2010, 10:22:17 am »
Been reading the thread, and hate to state the bleeding obvious, but forearms and wrists are two different things.

If you're having to put in extra effort to make your forearms grow along with the rest of you, then your exercise selection at the gym needs modification. Your simply not doing enough compound exercises that require grip. Deadlifts for example. BB or DB rows. If those are in your routine you shouldn't need any extra forearm training. If you still do, then Grobbelrevell's idea of throwing in a forearm session at the end of your workout is a good idea.

As for your wrists, the problem is, bigger forearms are going to make them look smaller. (think popeye). Lot like the big calves make the ankles looks smaller. It depends a lot on the insertion point of the muscle. If it's high, a muscularly developed forearm will look like a grapefruit on a popsicle stick.

Wrist size is heavily influenced by genetics and very hard to alter. Think of it this way - in terms of your upper arm, it takes about 15lbs of body weight just to gain one inch around the arms. You're probably looking at 3 times that for your forearms and at least 5 times that for your wrists.

I do most of the basic compound exercises (deadlifts, rows etc). I do a good mix of free weights and machine as well (I prefer to mix it up) - and I have had *some* growth on the forearms obviously, but in relation to the upper arms, for example, nowhere near. I know what your saying about the forearms making the wrist look even smaller and out of proportion, but the same is true with the upper arms in comparison with forearms.

As far as losing fat goes, I appreciate that there are various theories and scientific approaches regarding the optimum techniques, personally though, I try and keep it as simple as possible.

I may be stating the obvious but it is just a case of burning more calories than you consume. Nothing more. Get your diet sorted first, thats the most important thing. Clean foods and balanced. Then get yourself in gear for some serious exercise.

When I was looking to lose fat a year or two ago I was doing half an hour HIIT (one minute sprint, one minute walk) first thing in the morning, before breakfast. Did that 5 mornings a week. Then played squash for a couple of hours two or three times a week as well as continuing with the weight sessions.

If I wasnt losing after a few weeks I just reduced portion sizes slightly etc and carried on. Everyones different but that worked well for me.
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Offline ♠Dirty Harry♠

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #141 on: July 30, 2010, 08:48:25 pm »
Anyone know where you can get egg whites in local supermarket etc. ASDA here don't do em

Offline Garstonite

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #142 on: July 30, 2010, 09:03:59 pm »
You just have to carefully pour the yolk into the other half of the shell. I'm not even sure whether you can buy them anywhere.

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #143 on: July 30, 2010, 09:05:55 pm »
You just have to carefully pour the yolk into the other half of the shell. I'm not even sure whether you can buy them anywhere.
You can buy bottles/cartons of egg white : http://www.myprotein.co.uk/products/liquid_egg_whites?gclid=CPDD-_iFlKMCFdQB4wodVQwznA
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Offline theCanadian

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #144 on: July 30, 2010, 09:13:19 pm »
Drinking a tall glass of milk immediately before going to sleep the last couple of months has really made a difference for me. Thanks to whoever pointed that one out.
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Offline Grobbelrevell

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #145 on: January 26, 2011, 11:00:14 am »
There's a lot of uninformed, misinformation around in relation to creatine. As I use another (weight training) forum, I thought I'd post a very good, balanced, article on it written by one of the site moderators. Maybe one or two might find it useful.


Creatine Monohydrate

Article by James Collier BSc (Hons) - Moderator and Contributor to Muscletalk as an Expert in Nutrition



What is creatine?
Creatine is one of the most popular sports supplements on the market and is used by bodybuilders, athletes, sportsmen and women alike. Creatine is a compound made naturally in our bodies as an energy replenisher. It is manufactured in the liver, kidneys and pancreas and secreted into blood for transport to muscle (amongst other) tissues. Its chemical name is methylguanido-acetic acid, formed from the amino acids arginine, methionine and glycine.


Does creatine work?
Well no supplement 'works' per se; supplements merely 'supplement'; but, yes, creatine, when consumed in correct doses, will help the individual receive the desired effects. Creatine is probably the most scientifically researched sports supplement ever, providing strong evidence that it helps improve performance. However, a few individuals do report that they have not noticed any notable improvements from using creatine.

What does creatine do?
Creatine has a number of major functions as a sports supplement. All of these functions revolve around its function as an energy replenisher through it forming the creatine phosphate (CP or phosphocreatine) molecule.

•Creatine replenishes ATP
ATP is the molecule which when broken down releases energy for the muscle to contract. When used up, ATP needs to be replenished by re-acquiring phosphates. CP acts as a phosphate transporter. CP gives up its phosphate to ATP freeing creatine to form the bi-product creatinine for excretion.

Numerous studies have demonstrated that the more creatine that is present in muscle cells, up to a maximum storage level, the more efficiently ATP can be replenished, and, hence more ATP is available for energy. The richest food source of creatine is meat and fish, but it has been found that muscles can store far more CP than is possible to obtain from food (Hultman, et al 1996), so by supplementing with creatine monohydrate you can maximise stores. Thus creatine allows you to have more energy to help lift heavier weights, train harder and at higher intensity.

•Creatine stimulates protein synthesis
It has been demonstrated that creatine may also promote muscle growth by stimulating protein synthesis in two ways. Firstly, is from the increased work you are able to do as a result of its energy replenishing actions. Secondly is that the more CP that is stored in muscle, the more water is drawn into muscle making it fuller and stronger. With more CP and water in muscle, the volume increases, and the muscle cell is 'volumised' or 'super-hydrated'. A volumised muscle helps to trigger protein synthesis, minimise protein breakdown and increase glycogen synthesis (Haussinger 1996; 1996). If a muscle is then trained properly, this could lead to enhanced muscle growth. The muscle 'pump' experienced when using creatine is reported to be much more intense, and this is as a result of the cell volumising effect.

•Creatine may buffer lactic acid
Creatine may also act as a lactic acid buffer and improve exercise recovery time. Lactic acid is a bi-product from anaerobic (without oxygen) exercise, such as weight training. Lactic acid is responsible for the 'burning' sensation when the muscle becomes fatigued. When you cannot train anymore, it is due to you either having run out of energy or a build up of lactic acid. Creatine may act as a buffer for this lactic acid, which helps to delay the onset of fatigue.

•Creatine increases body weight
Most users experience notable weight increases when they commence a course of creatine, up to six or seven pounds (about three kilograms), especially the first time they use it. Most of this weight gain is from the cell volumising effect which is not permanent.

Some weight gain is from an increase in muscle tissue, and not just water, due to the positive effects of creatine. Studies have shown that creatine supplemented subjects significantly gained more lean body mass than non-creatine-supplemented individuals, but total body water was no different from before and after the study (Kreider; et al 1995; 1996). Most size and strength gains from creatine are during the first month of its use.

What is creatine loading?

Creatine loading is where the subject takes a high dose of creatine for the initial few days which is then followed by a maintenance lower dose for a few weeks. Some studies have shown that this achieves a higher concentration of muscle CP then by simply taking a maintenance dose alone (Greenhaff, et al 1993). There are a number of loading regimens, but the following one seems to be optimal and most cost effective:

Loading phase: 10g per day, as 2 x 5g servings for 5 days
  5g per day, for 5 days
  3g per day, for 7 days.
Maintenance phase: 2g per day, for 5 weeks.

This may be followed by a period of rest from using creatine, or back on the loading phase.

Is creatine loading really necessary?

This is very controversial as there are researchers like Greenhaff, et al (1993), who show that it is beneficial to load, and others who show no benefit. The ones who show no benefit recommend 5g per day only for 6-7 weeks and claim that supplement companies advocate loading merely as a way of trying to sell more creatine. If you compare this to companies who advocate a 10g, 15g or eve 20g loading phase and maintenance of 5g per day, then the non-loading advocators are correct. However if you compare 5g per day to the example above you will use a lot more creatine over the few weeks by not loading; (Over a 52 day period using 5g per day throughout uses 260g in total; compared with just 166g in the above regimen).

To conclude, loading may/may not be necessary but, as it will save you money by loading, it makes sense to load.

Do I need to cycle creatine?

After the maintenance phase you may desire a period of rest from using creatine, or you may go straight back on the loading phase. If you want to have some time off, have at least 2 weeks. There is no evidence that cycling creatine is any better than using is constantly. Anecdotally, there are mixed reports about cycling.

When during the day should I take creatine?

Creatine can be consumed any time of the day, as it is stored. Many experts advocate taking it immediately post workout, which is not only unnecessary, but also impractical, considering other nutrients which are consumed at this time. Furthermore, after a gruelling workout, you may feel a little sick and gulping down a creatine drink would not be desirable.

What do I mix creatine with?

Creatine is even more effective when taken with simple carbohydrates. This is due to the effect carbohydrates have on insulin release, and the insulin in turn helps muscle cell uptake of creatine. It has been suggested that a formula of roughly 35g of dextrose plus 5g of creatine monohydrate is the optimum for an effect, though this amount may be a little excessive. Studies on a range of athletes from different sports have shown creatine plus carbohydrates to produce better performance than creatine alone (Stout, et al 1997; 1997).

A creatine serving is often preferred in a hot drink (for example tea / coffee) so it dissolves more easily, with a teaspoon of sugar and consume some fruit or fruit juice at the same time. Another idea is to drink your creatine in a hot full sugar cordial drink, like blackcurrant. However do not mix creatine into boiling fluids as creatine is destroyed at very high temperatures, let your drink cool to drinkable temperature before adding the powder.

Which creatine formulas are best?

With loads of different types of creatine and formulas on the market it's no wonder the consumer gets confused. Creatine monohydrate is the form of creatine that is most commonly sold, because it is virtually tasteless and dissolves quite well in water. Creatine phosphate, creatine pyruvate and creatine citrate are also available, but are nowhere near as effective.

Creatine is also available as creatine serum, effervescent creatine or sublingual creatine, each claiming, by clever marketing, to be more readily absorbed, but really they are a waste of money as creatine is not stable in liquid form. Creatine capsules are also available, although reported to be less effective as powder forms. Always make sure you use creatine monohydrate; the micronised creatine monohydrate formulas are great as they dissolve well.

There are also a number of creatine transport systems made from creatine monohydrate and other ingredients claiming to help maximise uptake. Some of these are creatine and simple carbohydrates which do work, but are very expensive and it would be cheaper and just as effective to use basic creatine monohydrate powder and sugar.

Some formulas contain the amino acid taurine, which acts as an insulin mimicker, to aid creatine uptake; disodium phosphate, magnesium phosphate and potassium phosphate, all of which play a role in the formation of CP; and ribose which is also claimed to help uptake. The effectiveness of formulas containing these ingredients are controversial and not worth the increased price.

What about Creatine Ethyl Ester (CEE)?

The CEE debate can be read in the article Creatine Ethyl Ester: The Best Creatine or a Supplement Fallacy?

How long before I notice the effects of creatine?

This varies and there is no definite answer. Due to the cell volumisation effects, you should notice an increase in weight during or soon after the first week if you opt to load. You should also start to notice a fuller feel to your muscles, more energy in the gym and heavier lifts with 1-2 weeks. Most size and strength gains from creatine are during its first month of use (Kreider; et al 1995).

How much fluid should I drink while using creatine?

It is not possible to put a figure on this, so in practice (and irrespective of whether you are using creatine or not, as a good fluid intake is crucial for performance) drink regularly and plenty throughout the day. Thirst is not a good indicator.

Does caffeine affect creatine?

Some studies suggest reduced effectiveness of creatine when consumed with caffeine (Vandenburghe, et al 1996; Hespel, et al 2002), but these have flaws. In Vandenburghe's study, subjects when using creatine together with caffeine (C+C) had lower levels of performance than when they were administered creatine alone (C) (when also compared to placebo). However as CP levels were similar in C+C and C, this indicates that caffeine did not impair the transportation of creatine into muscle.

The studies were not under strict guidelines, which may explain the reduced performance: There was not a significant clearance period of creatine from stores before subjects were given the next test. Also, there was only 3 weeks rest, which may show signs of creatine storage; 4 weeks is more likely to give full clearance. So, if C+C was tested first, there may have still been some creatine in the stores. For optimal study design, a 6-week gap seems appropriate.

Another large flaw was that there was only 20 hours between the last caffeine dose and the C+C test results. This is more than enough time for caffeine to be out the system, i.e. caffeine could have had no effect (we have already showed it didn't affect muscle uptake).

Earlier studies by Greenhaff, et al (1993) where hot tea/coffee were used to promote dissolvation and absorption of creatine, showed enhanced performance, which contradicts these findings.

Hespel, et al (2002) were different in their study design but there were still a number of flaws mainly due to the timings of caffeine intake, similar to that of Vandenburghe et al in this respect.

It is crucial to bear in mind that the ultimate limiting factor for exercise performance is hydration state (I cannot emphasise enough the importance of this), and one of the positive effects of creatine is cell volumisation, i.e. more fluid into muscles. If there is insufficient fluid in the body, then valuable extracellular water will be drawn into muscles. Caffeine in higher quantities is a diuretic, and may reduce hydration state; this could explain reduced performance and is easily rectified by drinking plenty of fluid whilst on a creatine cycle.

There is nothing wrong with taking creatine in a caffeinated beverage, nor with using caffeine pills pre-workout whilst on a creatine cycle, as long as you drink plenty of fluid throughout the day.

Can you drink alcohol while using creatine?

A small amount of alcohol consumed whilst using creatine is ok, as long as it is not too regular. The main problem with alcohol is that it can be a diuretic at higher intakes, so if you do drink make sure you drink plenty of fluid to keep hydrated afterwards.

Do acidic juices affect creatine?

In short, no, despite there being some claims that they do. Creatine is an acid itself and many early studies used acidic fruit juices as the method of administration.

What about carbonated beverages?

Again, no, infact many people enjoy their creatine in Lucozade.

Does creatine compete for absorption with other nutrients/supplements?

Creatine is made up of amino acids but is absorbed in its undigested form as methylguanido-acetic acid, therefore does not compete with other amino acids for absorption. Simple carbohydrates may improve its absorption.

What are the side effects of creatine?

Creatine monohydrate has been shown in numerous studies to be, safe, even in large quantities (Robinson, et al 2000), nevertheless there are some side effects of creatine which you need to be aware of before commencing its use.

Due to its effect on fluid balance after consuming creatine it can cause mild irritation to the stomach and nausea for a short while. This is particularly apparent during the loading phase. Whilst this is a little unpleasant, it is harmless and minimised if you consume plenty of fluid. For this reason I also wouldn't recommend you use creatine at times when you are prone to feeling a little sick, e.g. immediately after training or first thing when you wake up.

Quite intense muscle cramps have been reported in many athletes who supplement with creatine, which could lead to injuries, and impair performance. Muscle cramps tend to be more prevalent in more energetic sports like athletics and football, rather than bodybuilding.

Some users have reported headaches, but again, drinking plenty will help prevent this side effect.

Does creatine affect the kidneys?

In the clinical setting, creatinine levels are measured to assess kidney function. Creatine supplementation raises creatinine levels, although it is completely non-toxic to the kidneys (Robinson, et al 2000). If you are supplementing with creatine and your doctor is running some blood tests, it is imperative that you inform him that you are using creatine otherwise this could give misleading information.

Can creatine cause cancer?

There has been one 'study' based on people's assumptions that creatine may be linked to cancer (AFSSA 1999). However, there have been no long-term studies to suggest that is has any links. In fact, it has been noted that it may actually be protective (Myers 2002).

How old do you have to be to take creatine?

There appears to be no minimum age, but as I can see no benefit in anyone younger than 15 years old using it (due to the fact that children younger than this do not optimise their performance without ergogenic aids), I wouldn't suggest it be consumed by anyone under 15.

What is the shelf life of creatine?

Creatine monohydrate powder has a long shelf life of years, so it can be stored at home for ages. Always consume your supplements before the 'use by' date on the packet.

Can I use creatine in bodybuilding competition preparation?

I would not recommend the use of creatine from four weeks before a bodybuilding competition. Despite the fact that creatine is supposed to draw water from around the muscle to within it, it has been reported to give a smooth stage appearance and the user definitely holds more water. Again supplement companies claim it can be used pre-contest for its cell volumising effect. I wouldn't risk it.

I've heard creatine can help some neurological disorders, is there any truth in this?

Some people are born with genetic disorders like muscular dystrophy where they have abnormally low levels of creatine phosphate in their muscles. Creatine supplementation, in such individuals, increases their strength and energy. The replenishment of ATP in sufferers of muscular dystrophy means that cells are better equipped to protect against injury and subsequent death (Myers 2002). In theory, this may actually prolong the life of the individual.

Is creatine supplementation for me?

The aim of this article was for you to make up your own mind to answer this final question. Creatine is the most researched of all sports supplements and is still raved about by many sports people of different disciplines and definitely has a role in bodybuilding.

However, despite the scientific hype, creatine is not the be-all-and-end-all of supplements in bodybuilding, as you can build an excellent physique without ever touching it. It is certainly no replacement for a good diet and more fundamental supplements like quality protein powders. When you have an optimal diet and are training hard, it definitely may be worth giving creatine monohydrate supplementation a try to see for yourself, and I do not doubt that you will see and feel positive results.


REFERENCES

•AFSSA 1999. http://www.afssa.fr
•Greenhaff PL; et al. 1993. Influence of oral creatine supplementation on muscle torque during repeated bouts of maximal voluntary exercise in men. Clin Sci 84: 565-571
•Haussinger D. 1996. Nutritional state and swelling-induced inhibition of liver proteolysis in perfused rat liver. Nutr J 126: 395
•Haussinger D. 1996. The role of cellular hydration in the regulation of cell function. Biochem J 313: 697-710
•Hespel P, Op't Eijnde B, Van Leemputte M. 2002. Opposite actions of caffeine and creatine on muscle relaxation time in humans. J Appl Physiol 92(2): 513-8.
•Hultman E; et al. 1996. Muscle creatine loading in man. J Appl Physiol 81: 232-237
•Kreider RB; et al. 1995. Effects of ingesting supplements designed to promote lean tissue accretion on whole and regional body composition alterations during resistance training. FASEB J: A1015
•Kreider RB; et al. 1996. Effects of ingesting supplements designed to promote lean tissue accretion on body composition alterations during resistance training. Int J Sport Nutr 6(3): 234-246
•Myers L. 2002. http://shop.store.yahoo.com/nu-care/prodres.html
•Robinson TM; et al. 2000. Dietary creatine supplementation does not affect some haematological indices, or indices of muscle damage and hepatic and renal function. Br J Sports Med 34: 284-288
•Stout JR; et al. 1997. The effects of a supplement designed to augment creatine uptake on anaerobic reserve capacity. NSCA National Conference Abstract
•Stout JR; et al. 1997. The effects of a supplement designed to augment creatine uptake and fat-free mass in football players. ACSM Conference Abstract
•Vandenberghe, K.; et al. 1996. Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscle creatine loading. J Appl Physiol 80(2): 452-457.

http://articles.muscletalk.co.uk/article-creatine.aspx
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 11:08:21 am by Grobbelrevell »
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Offline Grobbelrevell

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #146 on: January 26, 2011, 11:43:23 am »
In relation to the original post, again, I thought I'd post a good mass building/bulking routine up here which some may find useful. Personally, I've started using this one the last couple of months and have found it to be pretty effective. Allows you to focus on particular muscle groups in any given session, meaning you can really maximise your effort in a lower number of exercises each time rather than finding yourself struggling half way through a full body workout, for example.


NOTICE: THIS ROUTINE ASSUMES AT LEAST 6 MONTHS OF BREAK IN TRAINING FOR BEGINNERS.

THIS ROUTINE IS INTENDED FOR THE NATURAL TRAINER ONLY

Several of you have asked me for a good mass building program, so here it is. I've used this routine with many natural bodybuilders as well as professional football players looking to add some bulk in the offseason.

How many days a week? I've seen the best results with natural bodybuilders in a bulking phase on 3 days a week, training each exercise once a week. I know almost every program in the magazines you guys read will say 4 days a week, training each muscle twice a week, but my experience with hundreds of guys is that guys that train 4 days a week never make the same gains as the ones that train 3 days a week. If you train a muscle hard enough, you just can't recover in less than 6-7 days. Just because the soreness is gone doesn't mean that the muscle is recovered. 4 and 5 day splits are fine for cutting phases but not for bulking.

How to split things up? Push, pull, and legs seems to be the best split for most guys. Working shoulders with legs doesn't yield good growth in the shoulders because they end up overtrained. On push shoulders get hammered, on pull shoulders get hammered, and even working legs shoulders get hit.

Sets and reps? Like I said before, if you want to gain mass you need to stay around 5-6 reps. 4x6 or 5x5 are both good combinations. In my experience the guys that make better gains on 8-12 reps are advanced bodybuilders or are on drugs. I don't care if you feel a pump or a burn or whatever. That has nothing to do with size or strength, only momentarily pumping blood into a muscle.

Increasing your weights? You need to add weights to the bar every workout if you can. Going up in 2 ½ or 5 pound increments is great. You won't be able to add more weight each week, but that needs to be your mentality. Don't think about anything else but adding weight.

How long to stay on a routine? My experience is that around 8-12 weeks is best. Some guys say that after 6-8 weeks they've hit a plateau and need to change their routine. That's hogwash. Most of the time they've hit a plateau because they're not training hard enough or because they've added in more exercises than what's in my program and hinder their recovery.

DAY 1 – PULL

Deadlifts or Power Cleans
Barbell Rows, Dumbbell Rows, or Wide Grip Chins
Barbell Curls, Close Grip Underhand Chins, or Hammer Curls

DAY 2 – PUSH

Incline or Flat Barbell or Dumbbell Bench Press
Barbell or Dumbbell Shoulder Presses
Tricep Dips or Close Grip Bench Press

DAY 3 – LEGS

Front or Back Squats
Barbell or Dumbbell Stiff Leg Deadlifts
Calf Raises (3x12) - only if a seriously lagging bodypart
Weighted Crunches or Weighted Hanging Leg Raises (3x12)

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/Frankie-NY39s-Mass-Building-Program-m8817.aspx
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 11:53:48 am by Grobbelrevell »
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Offline LiamG

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #147 on: January 26, 2011, 01:57:22 pm »
Reminds me, i might get back to the gym this year, i havent been in well over a year! need to add some bulk to this very skinny frame!

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #148 on: January 26, 2011, 11:31:03 pm »
People considering using creatine need to be made aware that any farts you do will smell like a rotten animal corpse.
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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #149 on: January 26, 2011, 11:38:48 pm »
Any suggestions for increasing lower arm size - forearms and wrist?

Always had painfully thin wrists which look entirely out of proportion to the rest of my body, and no matter what I do, I can seem to get any 'meat' on them.
Be careful though, you can easily overdo those. A lot of the other arm exercises do forearms even if you don't know it. If you're not careful and you're starting out or not really into it you could hurt the tendons. If you do too much you'll look a spas with forearms like Popeye.

The next post down was good. I do forearms but only needed on e a month really. Do 15 reps and then hold the last one for 10 seconds. Works really well.
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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #150 on: January 26, 2011, 11:38:55 pm »
broke my arm so cant do anything for 4 months, literally going to waste away! physio and rebuilding is going to be fun, oh joy!!

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #151 on: January 26, 2011, 11:41:29 pm »
Creatine is bollocks. False weight and false strength.

In my humble opinion of course.

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #152 on: January 27, 2011, 09:34:52 am »
Creatine is bollocks. False weight and false strength.

There is though, strong evidence to suggest that it is an effective aid to increasing lean muscle mass due to the strength/performance gains and subsequent increase in weight being lifted. There are pro's and con's for it, as with anything, but there is also a lot of misinformation around about it that should be clarified.

Of course you can achieve your goals without it and many do, it's a supplement to a balanced diet and a good training routine, nothing more.

Its important to note as well, that you do consume creatine naturally every time you eat a steak or a peice of fish, for example.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 11:40:44 am by Grobbelrevell »
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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #153 on: February 27, 2011, 06:01:13 pm »
Anyone got a good full-body workout plan I could use?
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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #154 on: February 28, 2011, 01:07:52 pm »
Anyone got a good full-body workout plan I could use?

I've never used a full body workout personally, but I found this rough guide if it's any use to you:

Squat variation: Front, back, feet wide, feet narrow
Dead-lift variation traditional: Sumo, snatch grip, stiff leg
Vertical pull: Pull up, chins, palms facing each other
Vertical push: dumbbell overhead press, push press, military press and dips
Horizontal push: Any dumbbell bench press, barbell bench press
Horizontal pull: Any barbell rows, cable pulls to chin, dumbbell rows
Sit-up or crunches variation: Decline bench, Swiss ball
Torso twisting movement: Swiss ball twists, Russian twists
Olympic lift: Clean and jerk, power clean and jerk, snatch

Basically choose a variation of each for a particular workout and then rotate them to keep it fresh.
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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #155 on: February 28, 2011, 01:32:04 pm »
Willing to help anyone here. I spent two years weightlifting and went from 11 st to 13st 12lbs but haven't been to gym in four months due to injury. I ll show you all a progress picture and answer any questions you all got.

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #156 on: February 28, 2011, 01:36:45 pm »
Willing to help anyone here. I spent two years weightlifting and went from 11 st to 13st 12lbs but haven't been to gym in four months due to injury. I ll show you all a progress picture and answer any questions you all got.

I'm currently like 10 1/2 stone and about 6.1ft and I'm going to start going to the gym this week.  My arms are basically sticks and my belly, is not fat but has no muscle either and a wee bit of flab.  My legs are alright since I ride about 40 km a week on the bike.

When I start in the gym what's the best for improving my arms/chest and how should I start off, times on each machine per week etc?

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #157 on: February 28, 2011, 01:58:22 pm »
I'm currently like 10 1/2 stone and about 6.1ft and I'm going to start going to the gym this week.  My arms are basically sticks and my belly, is not fat but has no muscle either and a wee bit of flab.  My legs are alright since I ride about 40 km a week on the bike.

When I start in the gym what's the best for improving my arms/chest and how should I start off, times on each machine per week etc?

Cheers


Mate, you sound like your in exactly the same position I was a couple of years ago. I started by losing most of the fat I had (which was not insignificant) and as a result I ended up at about 10 and a half stone (and with absolutely zero muscle). I'm also 6"1.

What are you actually trying to do then? Gain weight (or bulk up)? I'm no expert but I can tell you one or two things that helped for me.

Firstly, the most important thing is your diet. If your serious about it then you need to get that sorted. If your aiming to gain weight (muscle) then you need to eat A LOT as well. And lot's of lean meats (protein) with it is essential. The basic rule being that you need to consume more calories than your expending in order to gain (sorry if im stating the obvious with that).

Once you've got that sorted, then you need to get yourself a decent routine. A basic 5x5 routine is usually a decent start. This is one that I used for a while (taken from the original article) and with which I gained about two stone (im currently 12 and a half stone):


NOTICE: THIS ROUTINE ASSUMES AT LEAST 6 MONTHS OF BREAK IN TRAINING FOR BEGINNERS.

Several of you have asked me for a good mass building program, so here it is. I've used this routine with many natural bodybuilders as well as professional football players looking to add some bulk in the offseason.

How many days a week? I've seen the best results with natural bodybuilders in a bulking phase on 3 days a week, training each exercise once a week. I know almost every program in the magazines you guys read will say 4 days a week, training each muscle twice a week, but my experience with hundreds of guys is that guys that train 4 days a week never make the same gains as the ones that train 3 days a week. If you train a muscle hard enough, you just can't recover in less than 6-7 days. Just because the soreness is gone doesn't mean that the muscle is recovered. 4 and 5 day splits are fine for cutting phases but not for bulking.

How to split things up? Push, pull, and legs seems to be the best split for most guys. Working shoulders with legs doesn't yield good growth in the shoulders because they end up overtrained. On push shoulders get hammered, on pull shoulders get hammered, and even working legs shoulders get hit.

Sets and reps? Like I said before, if you want to gain mass you need to stay around 5-6 reps. 4x6 or 5x5 are both good combinations. In my experience the guys that make better gains on 8-12 reps are advanced bodybuilders or are on drugs. I don't care if you feel a pump or a burn or whatever. That has nothing to do with size or strength, only momentarily pumping blood into a muscle.

Increasing your weights? You need to add weights to the bar every workout if you can. Going up in 2 ½ or 5 pound increments is great. You won't be able to add more weight each week, but that needs to be your mentality. Don't think about anything else but adding weight.

How long to stay on a routine? My experience is that around 8-12 weeks is best. Some guys say that after 6-8 weeks they've hit a plateau and need to change their routine. That's hogwash. Most of the time they've hit a plateau because they're not training hard enough or because they've added in more exercises than what's in my program and hinder their recovery.

DAY 1 – PULL

Deadlifts or Power Cleans
Barbell Rows, Dumbbell Rows, or Wide Grip Chins
Barbell Curls, Close Grip Underhand Chins, or Hammer Curls

DAY 2 – PUSH

Incline or Flat Barbell or Dumbbell Bench Press
Barbell or Dumbbell Shoulder Presses
Tricep Dips or Close Grip Bench Press

DAY 3 – LEGS

Front or Back Squats
Barbell or Dumbbell Stiff Leg Deadlifts
Calf Raises (3x12) - only if a seriously lagging bodypart
Weighted Crunches or Weighted Hanging Leg Raises (3x12) 
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 02:01:29 pm by Grobbelrevell »
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Offline El Rey, por favor

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #158 on: February 28, 2011, 02:00:54 pm »
Willing to help anyone here. I spent two years weightlifting and went from 11 st to 13st 12lbs but haven't been to gym in four months due to injury. I ll show you all a progress picture and answer any questions you all got.

Got any good full-body workout routines?
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Offline El Rey, por favor

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Re: Putting on weight/muscle
« Reply #159 on: February 28, 2011, 02:01:45 pm »


DAY 1 – PULL

Deadlifts or Power Cleans
Barbell Rows, Dumbbell Rows, or Wide Grip Chins
Barbell Curls, Close Grip Underhand Chins, or Hammer Curls

DAY 2 – PUSH

Incline or Flat Barbell or Dumbbell Bench Press
Barbell or Dumbbell Shoulder Presses
Tricep Dips or Close Grip Bench Press

DAY 3 – LEGS

Front or Back Squats
Barbell or Dumbbell Stiff Leg Deadlifts
Calf Raises (3x12) - only if a seriously lagging bodypart
Weighted Crunches or Weighted Hanging Leg Raises (3x12)  [/i]

I looked at the 5x5 but my problem is, you are only doing 3 exercises a day, surely that isn't enough to gain size in your arms and chest, for your legs then maybe.
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