Author Topic: Welcome Adrian  (Read 151234 times)

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #160 on: August 10, 2019, 04:35:31 pm »
It's not so much that he "should have saved it", for me - but more that he could have made it a more difficult shot for Pukki. Which Allison most likely would have done.

The guy wasn't even expecting to play. You are a harsh task master.  :D
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #161 on: August 10, 2019, 04:36:29 pm »
The guy wasn't even expecting to play. You are a harsh task master.  :D

I am indeed ;D
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Offline Mr_Shane

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #162 on: August 10, 2019, 04:44:41 pm »
Almost everyone is a drop down from Alisson matey.  ;D

Alisson is like a brick wall in those 1v1 situations with a striker through on goal.

I think we can play that high line with Alisson, but it remains to be seen sure how we will accommodate Adrian


Offline keyop

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #163 on: August 10, 2019, 04:51:11 pm »
It's not so much that he "should have saved it", for me - but more that he could have made it a more difficult shot for Pukki. Which Allison most likely would have done.

Agreed. But he's not Alisson, and given the lateness of his signing/first competitive game (at Anfield)/the lack of closing down by our midfield and defence, then I think some posters suggesting he could've saved it (and using Alisson as a benchmark) is pretty pointless discussion. It's like saying one of our front 3 would've scored a chance that Origi might miss - firstly we'll never know, and secondly its not a fair comparison.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #164 on: August 10, 2019, 04:53:23 pm »
Agreed. But he's not Alisson, and given the lateness of his signing/first competitive game (at Anfield)/the lack of closing down by our midfield and defence, then I think some posters suggesting he could've saved it (and using Alisson as a benchmark) is pretty pointless discussion. It's like saying one of our front 3 would've scored a chance that Origi might miss - firstly we'll never know, and secondly its not a fair comparison.

I see what you're saying, but closing the man down on a 1v1 is a basic of the game. It's a decision, rather than a "talent". Too many keepers stay rooted to the 6 yard box, and too many GK coaches allow it to happen :D
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #165 on: August 10, 2019, 04:54:18 pm »
Again, though, he did what most keepers would do - he protected his goal. But the principles of play apply to keepers as much as outfield players, and closing down the angle once the player has broken the offside line and gone 1v1, is a better option than sitting on the line, or half-committing to coming off it, in terms of minimizing goal chances

My personal preference when playing in goal was to get in the forward's face and make him rush his shot. But then I've never played seriously so my preference only affected how I saw my performance, and goal or not it never affected a result that my team would care about.

Another of my personal foibles was to have a very good idea of where the posts were, and give my defenders heart attacks by walking to get the ball for a goal kick when it was barely wide of the post. The closer to the target the better the reactions.

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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #166 on: August 10, 2019, 05:06:02 pm »
We may have to be a little conservative in how we set up now. Adrian is not as aggressive  like Ali. He is a traditional keeper who likes to stay on his line while being competent in sweeping up.

If our defense keeps things tight and our midfield do their job, Adrian will do a fine job. He made some out of the world saves for west ham over the years.

Which reiterates the importance of having Matip for the next few games if we're going conservative. He knows when to block and when to retreat and when to try to intercept, Gomez needs more experience to be more sure of himself on these.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #167 on: August 10, 2019, 05:15:44 pm »
My personal preference when playing in goal was to get in the forward's face and make him rush his shot. But then I've never played seriously so my preference only affected how I saw my performance, and goal or not it never affected a result that my team would care about.

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Quote
Another of my personal foibles was to have a very good idea of where the posts were, and give my defenders heart attacks by walking to get the ball for a goal kick when it was barely wide of the post. The closer to the target the better the reactions.

"Fucking hell why did you turn your back?"
"It was going wide."

I had a keeper once (men's team) who insisted - Pickford style - on saving or trying to save everything aimed at goal. One game, a ball was clearly going out for a goal kick to us from a long-ball/shot thing from 35 yards out. It was closer to the flag than the goal, but my keeper insisted on running across to try and catch it. Knocked it out for a corner because he didn't get good hands on it. They score from it, 2-1 to them, we went on to lose 3-1 in total. The third goal was almost the same thing, trying to catch a ball that was going out, only this time he dropped it in front of their striker.

We replaced him the next week. ;D
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Offline scutty

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #168 on: August 10, 2019, 06:48:25 pm »
Alisson could have never saved the one on one with pukki he wasn't on the pitch and won't be until fit, but Adrian was and will be for now.

Good luck in the coming games.






 
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #169 on: August 10, 2019, 07:19:29 pm »
An unrelated question about the rules and customs concerning goalkeeping. Is the goalkeeper allowed to jump willy nilly into the mix, fist cocked with homicidal intent, as long as he shouts "Keeper's!"? Just how much of a follow through is he allowed as long as he first makes contact with the ball?
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Offline Linudden

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #170 on: August 11, 2019, 12:30:15 am »
Mignolet's biggest problem at Liverpool was not distribution, I'm not sure how so many believe it is. It's actually lack of command of his area and his inability to come off the line. That means our whole defensive game-plan gets thrown into the bin because our style is to play a high line with the offside trap, while the keeper clears anything that is played behind our defensive line. The fact that he stays behind in these situations makes us more vulnerable and it causes one mistake after another from defenders as well.

In short, I'd take someone who has Mignolet's level of distribution (yes I'm coming down), but with more command of the area and someone who is quick off his line. I think Karius was exactly that. He wasn't a great keeper, but he was a good keeper who suited our style of play. I hope Adrian can replicate that, and if he does that much, it should suffice.

For me, decision-making outside of the box and distribution go hand-in-hand. He used to come out very late and then place a shocker straight for a throw-in when he aimed for a team mate. With van Dijk and Matip in front of a keeper though, it's not the end of the world if he doesn't have Alisson's command of the area. It sure makes it less of an issue. That will definitely help Adrián and is why I do expect Matip to be in for the duration of Alisson's time out.
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Offline Ravishing Rick Dude

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #171 on: August 11, 2019, 02:09:21 am »
He could have come out more aggressively and closed the angle better, though.

Here is the ball just arriving at Pukki's feet. Note how Adrian isn't even in shot, given that it was a telegraphed pass:



Then here is the ball at his feet. Look at where Adrian's feet are, right up at the 6-yard line. He could and should be closer to Pukki, which cuts out his visual angle and possibly forces him to change his mind:



Then this is the shot being taken. Note how Adrian has backed off from the 6 yard line:



So he played it very conservative, and gave Pukki the angle and space he needed to get his shot off.

Again, though, he did what most keepers would do - he protected his goal. But the principles of play apply to keepers as much as outfield players, and closing down the angle once the player has broken the offside line and gone 1v1, is a better option than sitting on the line, or half-committing to coming off it, in terms of minimizing goal chances

Adrian is an average GK. Whoever expects him to be a top goalie for us, will get disappointed, or like in many cases on RAWK, will become his apologist. Adrian should have done better for that goal, but the reason why he didn't it's because he's average. However, that's an improvement on Mignolet, because Mignolet wasn't even that.

Let's just hope our defenders will rise their game until Ali's back.
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Offline harleydanger

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #172 on: August 11, 2019, 02:29:48 am »
I see what you're saying, but closing the man down on a 1v1 is a basic of the game. It's a decision, rather than a "talent". Too many keepers stay rooted to the 6 yard box, and too many GK coaches allow it to happen :D

I disagree. Closing a man down is a fucking art, it's not just run at the bloke.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #173 on: August 11, 2019, 02:38:22 am »
I disagree. Closing a man down is a fucking art, it's not just run at the bloke.

It is when it's a 1v1 in the penalty area! ;D

But it's not really an "art". It's more an "attitude". The easy thing is to drop off and defend the goal. The natural instinct (that gets trained out of players) is to go after the ball. We wean players (especially goalkeepers) out of that instinct, and then wonder why we concede easy goals.
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Offline harleydanger

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #174 on: August 11, 2019, 03:19:22 am »
Nah, 1v1, taking ground at the right time when they’re between strides, forcing them wide, forcing the wrong foot, preventing the chip, not going down, not getting dribbled around, controlling the narrative of the encounter. It’s really way more than just running at the player to close angles.
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Offline demain

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #175 on: August 11, 2019, 03:39:39 am »
I agree with PoP that Adrian should have done better closing down Pukki for their goal. He was rooted to his line and made it easier to finish for the attacker.

Been wondering if there's much of a difference between Mignolet and Adrian, both are arguably no better than good back-up keepers at this stage of their careers. Is it possible to cancel Karius's loan deal at Beşiktaş and recall him ?
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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #176 on: August 11, 2019, 04:03:49 am »
He’ll win us the Super Cup on Wednesday, be it a Worldie save or in a Shoot-out.  I’m convinced of it.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #177 on: August 11, 2019, 04:23:30 am »
Nah, 1v1, taking ground at the right time when they’re between strides, forcing them wide, forcing the wrong foot, preventing the chip, not going down, not getting dribbled around, controlling the narrative of the encounter. It’s really way more than just running at the player to close angles.

All good points, no doubt. But he was in the box about to take a shot. You close him down and you decrease his angles. The rest after that is detail. We're talking here about stepping out to the player or not stepping out to the player.
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Offline harleydanger

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #178 on: August 11, 2019, 05:34:17 am »
Of course
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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #179 on: August 11, 2019, 09:27:19 am »
Surely rusty, did he play much last season?

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #180 on: August 11, 2019, 11:07:49 am »
Surely rusty, did he play much last season?
Indeed.
I think his last game for West ham was in an FA cup game in January.
This, along with his lack of pre-season, perhaps personal training plan for the summer, whilst awaiting an offer from a club, will surely mean that it may take a while for us to see him at his best. I'm talking about his physical condition, and more importantly, his decision making, that you can really only get by playing matches.
It's not an ideal situation for us. We'll have to cut him some slack over the next few weeks.
On a side note, many are saying that he's a perfect match for us, playing style. If that's the case, and he was out of contract, and available for free, why didn't we approach him earlier, considering we took Andy Lonergan to the USA? Maybe we did, and he wanted to continue to look for a club, but the deal appears more of a last minute rush job, rather than signing a player who we had been keeping an eye on.

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #181 on: August 11, 2019, 11:28:42 am »
For me, decision-making outside of the box and distribution go hand-in-hand. He used to come out very late and then place a shocker straight for a throw-in when he aimed for a team mate. With van Dijk and Matip in front of a keeper though, it's not the end of the world if he doesn't have Alisson's command of the area. It sure makes it less of an issue. That will definitely help Adrián and is why I do expect Matip to be in for the duration of Alisson's time out.

I agree with the general sentiment, but a shocker for a throw-in is not as dangerous as staying on the line, leaving the defenders in doubts and then allowing the striker to get to the ball/have a free shot 1v1, while you had a chance to put it out before. This kind of an action/indecision threw our entire defense off. Mignolet is suited for a team that plays with two banks of 4 or a 4-5 ahead of the goalkeeper and deep. Like Aston Villa yesterday for example. Or Sunderland, where he came from. Not for anything beyond that.

Offline scutty

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #182 on: August 11, 2019, 11:45:18 am »
Nah 1v1 is just plain old vanilla.


FFs, some of you lot.
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Offline redgriffin73

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #183 on: August 11, 2019, 12:59:36 pm »



I am also beginning to get an irrational dislike of the new rule where defenders can receive the ball in the area.... but thats a whole other issue!

Completely off topic but I hate it already! Having said that I can easily see it leading to a few goals for us if Mo and Bobby are sharp enough so maybe I'll change my mind!
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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #184 on: August 11, 2019, 02:07:02 pm »
Completely off topic but I hate it already! Having said that I can easily see it leading to a few goals for us if Mo and Bobby are sharp enough so maybe I'll change my mind!

Something had to be done though as defenders were just running in to the box to receive the ball any time they felt under pressure from the opposition leading to the goal kick just being re-taken.
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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #185 on: August 11, 2019, 08:17:42 pm »
Adrian is an average GK. Whoever expects him to be a top goalie for us, will get disappointed, or like in many cases on RAWK, will become his apologist. Adrian should have done better for that goal, but the reason why he didn't it's because he's average. However, that's an improvement on Mignolet, because Mignolet wasn't even that.

Let's just hope our defenders will rise their game until Ali's back.
He IS a backup keeper tbf! Unless your starting keeper is shit like Pickford, losing him is awful news. In our case, we've gone from arguably the world's finest to someone not even in the top 50 most likely. It is a HUGE drop-off and we will certainly suffer because of it. All we can hope is that Adrian plays 'okay' until Ali returns. Adrian is a pretty good backup but that's all he is.

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #186 on: August 11, 2019, 08:21:22 pm »
He will get better. Klopp believes.
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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #187 on: August 11, 2019, 08:21:28 pm »
Something had to be done though as defenders were just running in to the box to receive the ball any time they felt under pressure from the opposition leading to the goal kick just being re-taken.

I'd have turned that into an indirect free-kick from where the defender touched it rather than what they have now.

Although with our pressing I imagine we'll catch a few teams out if they try to play it from their own box so it's not all bad.

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #188 on: August 11, 2019, 08:35:14 pm »
Adrian looked 100% more confident when he came on than he ever did in any game he ever played at West Ham. Why? Because of you and Jurgen. He grew 6" when he came on the field on Friday. He will not let us down,

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #189 on: August 11, 2019, 08:35:26 pm »
it's your time to shine now Adrian, i think he will do very well until Alisson is back

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #190 on: August 11, 2019, 09:05:25 pm »
it's your time to shine now Adrian, i think he will do very well until Alisson is back

Supporter's at the games are ready to give him full support.

Like it or not, he's in goal for now, and who knows hopefully he'll have a storming few games.  :scarf
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Offline moloch

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #191 on: August 11, 2019, 09:39:36 pm »
Closing down Pukki wouldn’t have made much of a difference to Pukki’s shot as he wasn’t even looking up but instinctively shot in the corner. It might’ve helped Adrian to get a hand on the shot but I doubt it.

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #192 on: August 11, 2019, 09:47:38 pm »
It's not so much that he "should have saved it", for me - but more that he could have made it a more difficult shot for Pukki. Which Allison most likely would have done.
The finish and angle were similar to the Antonio goal for West Ham against us last season.  From memory Alisson didn't even attempt a dive!

Adrian always came across as a bit of an accident waiting to happen at West Ham and he'll no doubt have a few head-in-hands moment over the next couple of months.  As debuts go though I thought he did well and I'm happy to let him off being beaten with a shot that found the inside netting.

I'm also pleased it's Adrian coming in and not Mignolet.  Clearly Adrian is a step down in quality from Alisson but at least he's of the same breed - watching Mignolet against Wolves last season was painful, not because he did anything wrong but just because his style is so poorly suited to a high defensive line and playing the ball out from the back!

Offline newterp

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #193 on: August 11, 2019, 09:47:39 pm »
Closing down Pukki wouldn’t have made much of a difference to Pukki’s shot as he wasn’t even looking up but instinctively shot in the corner. It might’ve helped Adrian to get a hand on the shot but I doubt it.

If he gets a hand on the shot .... maybe he saves it?

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #194 on: August 11, 2019, 10:11:20 pm »
Closing down Pukki wouldn’t have made much of a difference to Pukki’s shot as he wasn’t even looking up but instinctively shot in the corner. It might’ve helped Adrian to get a hand on the shot but I doubt it.

Firstly, Pukki knew where he was shooting before he got the ball. That's what you train into players from the youngest ages.

Secondly, closing the angle at speed (i.e. before Pukki touches the ball) both shrinks his angle to shoot and puts body parts close to the ball to deflect, while also causes Pukki to change his mind on the shot (which is what creates time for covering defenders).
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Offline Ocean Red

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #195 on: August 12, 2019, 12:51:31 am »
on a positive note, Adrian should get his 5 Premier League appearances to qualify for a Premier League winners medal this season. But we do need Alisson back as soon as possible as he is the best keeper in the world, and I am not even being bias saying that.

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #196 on: August 12, 2019, 06:26:19 am »
Alisson would have been in his face and would have saved that no doubts in my mind. Part of the problem is reading what has happened, I just feel that Adrian hesitated going ahead because he read that through ball that split second late.

Just show him some Rocky movies, he will be fine. But we need to consider that we will not be leading the clean sheets charts any time soon.
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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #197 on: August 12, 2019, 08:34:28 am »
Not to worried, hes a decent PL goalie

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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #198 on: August 12, 2019, 09:06:09 am »
Exactly. It was a nice finish, Adrian didn't do anything wrong, but I just felt Ali would have stopped it - he's just that good.

For me, he came out, then took a few steps back and that's a no no for a keeper. It meant his weight distribution was wrong so he couldn't get down quick enough. He should have stood his ground or even been more aggressive.

I always liked him at West Ham though. Struck me as an athletic keeper with good reflexes. And I think he showed good feet on Friday.
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Re: Welcome Adrian
« Reply #199 on: August 12, 2019, 10:57:52 am »
The reception he got seemed absolutely amazing - maybe it's good he conceded early in his stint, no doubt the goal will be analysed to see where he can improve, he's at a big club now which I'm sure he is delighted with, now the challenge is to meet the standard set by Allison, i wish him luck he seems like a good guy