Author Topic: Fernando Torres  (Read 518128 times)

Offline Brentieke

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Fernando Torres
« on: September 12, 2011, 03:02:01 pm »
I know alot of people are going to reply by saying they couldnt give a fuck, but for the other I'm interested in your opinions:

Just what the fuck has happened to him and where does he go from here?

Dropped for Daniel Sturridge, 1 goal in 22 appearences for Chelsea, not even in the squad for Spain. What a fall from grace.

It's not a question of losing a yard of pace for me as he'd obviously already lost that at ours. But he still managed 9 goals for us in half a season, 6 of those under Roy fucking Hodgson! And before he moved to Chelsea he'd scored 3 in 4 league games under the King (one of them a belter against Blackpool), hit the post against Everton and had one wrongly dissalowed against Fulham for offside when he was on. Noone's going to convince me he lost his pace in the 3 days it took for the deal to Chelsea to be completed.

It looks to me a combination of things. I think, much like Andy Carroll, the team he joined didnt play the style of play needed to bring the best out of him. They then went out this Summer to buy players that would link up with Torres like we did (for Raul and Mata see Downing and Adam for Carroll). But so far it hasnt worked out has it. And with each passing game, each passing 5 minutes on as a sub the ratio of goals to appearences just gets more embarassing and his confidence gets highly affected. I think we're saying definite signs as well that Torres needs to be the main man at a club (see him at Atleti and at ours) but struggles when he's a cog in the machine like with Spain and Chelsea.

Where do people see him going from here? Will he rediscover some of his form? Will he stay at Chelsea past this season? Is that all she wrote for him as a top level player? Is it the end of him in England?

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Offline Frank.

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2011, 03:04:47 pm »
Didn't he call the Chelsea squad 'slow and old' or something?

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2011, 03:04:51 pm »
It's his own fault, he shouldn't have left here. He's too good not to start scoring goals though, but he's never gonna be the player he was for us under Rafa. Injuries and a lack of a side set out to his strengths will see to that.

Think he'd have been fine with Suarez as he buzzes about everywhere anyway.
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Offline welshred1976

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2011, 03:06:08 pm »
I have taken great joy in his demise. I honestly hope he never scores again. I know it's small time and bitter but it's just how I feel.
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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2011, 03:07:03 pm »
Think he'd have been fine with Suarez as he buzzes about everywhere anyway.

He has been rubbish with nearly every striker he has played with, so I wouldn't bank on him ever being good with Suarez.

Offline Brentieke

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2011, 03:07:28 pm »
Didn't he call the Chelsea squad 'slow and old' or something?

Yeah, said they have alot of old players that played slowly.

Just not a good fit.
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Offline eirwen

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2011, 03:07:51 pm »
I think it's the style of Chelsea just doesn't suit him. And then he just lost confidence.

When I watched Chelsea last season, their midfield was ridiculously bad. I think Mata and Meireles would improve them a lot, but now he doesn't get to play with them because of that interview. He should really shut his mouth sometimes. Does he not have an advisor on these things? Anyway if AVB has fallen out with him then I can see him transferred in January.

Offline J-Mc-

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2011, 03:08:17 pm »
He lost that yard of pace, was rushed back since we depended on him to get the goals and just never recovered really.

He's shown glimpses that he was close to recapturing his old form again but it's fizzled out again, he just doesn't seem arsed anymore, think the fame from the media and the heights he reached on a personal level by being our main striker for near enough 4 years went to his head, so when things don't go his way, he starts having a tantrum instead of picking his head up and trying to improve.

Fucking loved the lad when he was here, hated the way he left but still want him to do well, he scored some important goals for us, saved our necks a few times aswell, just didn't have the right attitude in the end and turned from an idol willing to fight for the win into a glory hunter wanting it handed to him.

Offline AriGold

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2011, 03:08:24 pm »
He has been rubbish with nearly every striker he has played with, so I wouldn't bank on him ever being good with Suarez.
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Offline Lawnmowerman

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2011, 03:08:39 pm »
One of these asking the exact same question was locked the other day.

Who knows what happened to him. Psychological probably. Sure plenty of sports psychologists would have an opinion

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2011, 03:09:29 pm »
He looks disinterested, and has no hunger.

With us, Rafa had the weaknesses of every player and every team detailed for Torres, he instructed him how to play against different opponents. Or play was designed to play to his strengths..

If Torres wants to get scoring again, he has to take the steps to do so and make it happen.

Offline UntouchableLuis

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2011, 03:11:24 pm »
His confidence is completely shot. He's trying too hard and it's all looking very desperate. I refuse to believe a player can just lose their quality but it's never going to work out at Chelsea for him. He's best off going back to Spain IMO.
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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2011, 03:11:35 pm »
It's got to the point now where I feel sorry for him.  As some predicted, he'll be playing in Italy in the next 12 months and fall out of the Spanish side.

The Spanish Michael Owen if you will.

Offline kelevra

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2011, 03:12:41 pm »
Think a lot of it is to do with the way the team is set up. Rafa knew Torres’ strengths and utilized it to perfection such as being the focal point of the attack and getting the ball to him early, whereas at Chelsea he is upfront with someone else and the build up is a lot slower.
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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2011, 03:12:41 pm »
Torres has lost a yard of space.

He wasn't as as quick off the mark last season as he used to be in his first two or three seasons here with us. As for why he is struggling at Chelsea, I think its more down to their style. A direct game suits Torres where he has run the channels and all. Chelsea on the other hand played last season and are playing more patient possessional football where the build-up is slower. Thats one of the main reasons why he has struggled for them and has struggled for Spanish NT as well.
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Offline 1021

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2011, 03:13:17 pm »
It's got to the point now where I feel sorry for him.  As some predicted, he'll be playing in Italy in the next 12 months and fall out of the Spanish side.

The Spanish Michael Owen if you will.

Yep. I almost feel sorry for him. Torres not Michael Owen. But really I couldn't give a damn, the grass is rarely greener.
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Offline bellinter

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2011, 03:14:22 pm »
Whilst in a way I’m glad the gods are punishing him for leaving us, I also think that it’s a shame to see what has become of him in the last 12 months. The man was phenomenal, a production line of goals and a joy to watch…. To go from that to his current situation in such a short period of time, is strange to say the least. The old ‘class is permanent thing’ makes me believe that he’ll come good sooner rather than later, but something big will have to change for that to happen
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Offline Brentieke

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2011, 03:14:27 pm »
Something I thought about as well after the Stoke game was how much I missed his cool finishing.

Remember the Villa away game that closed 2009? Did absolutely fuck all all game, barely got a touch let alone a sight on goal. Then in the last few seconds, the ball falls kindly for him and from a tight angle he expertly and colly slotted it home.

Just clinical. Nothing to do with pace. Just a quick sight of gaol and boom. Goal. Really cant remember him missing many chances when he was at ours.

And the thing is, you look at him now, and it's similar to Carroll in that I just dont even see him MISSING chances. I havent seen him get a sight of goal for ages. He's not even in positions when he can finish things off.
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Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2011, 03:15:05 pm »
Have we ever had a striker that has left the club and gone on to improve?

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2011, 03:15:59 pm »
He has lost that yard of pace, and most importantly that acceleration.

You're not going to catch him if he gets played through on goal, even now. But there was a time where you need two defenders to get goalside of Torres to stop him. You don't need that any more. If you get between Torres and the goal these days he's not likely to beat you. All he's got left is his ability to work half a yard for himself like he did against Chelsea for his 2nd goal last year.

He's a bigger, stronger Owen nowadays. Once his ability to beat a defender 1-vs-1 disappeared so did anything special about him. He's never been the most clinical finisher out there (although he's much better than I ever thought he'd be at Atleti). Once you take away his ability to create a goal for himself, which he's obviously lost, he's not that good.
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Offline brownie 09

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2011, 03:16:08 pm »
It's got to the point now where I feel sorry for him.  As some predicted, he'll be playing in Italy in the next 12 months and fall out of the Spanish side.

The Spanish Michael Owen if you will.
Yup tend to agree with this, at least he will be having fun in training though :)

But being serious its a shame to see a player of his calibre just fall so far down in 9months, like people have said when he played for us just before moving at least he was scoring goals even if he looked disinterested! Its odd really.

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2011, 03:16:08 pm »
Have we ever had a striker that has left the club and gone on to improve?

Voronin.
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Offline 1021

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2011, 03:16:40 pm »
Have we ever had a striker that has left the club and gone on to improve?

Can't think of any.
I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.

Offline Brentieke

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2011, 03:17:35 pm »
It's his own fault, he shouldn't have left here. He's too good not to start scoring goals though, but he's never gonna be the player he was for us under Rafa. Injuries and a lack of a side set out to his strengths will see to that.

Think he'd have been fine with Suarez as he buzzes about everywhere anyway.

One of things that pissed me off so much about the timing of his exit is we never got the chance of seeing them 2 combining. They would have been perfect for one another.
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Offline Juan Loco

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2011, 03:17:36 pm »
Bellamy went on to be a better player.

Then he came back.

Anelka, arguably, as well.
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Offline AriGold

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2011, 03:17:59 pm »
Have we ever had a striker that has left the club and gone on to improve?
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Offline Oh Sami Sami

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2011, 03:19:18 pm »
Have we ever had a striker that has left the club and gone on to improve?

Anelka?

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2011, 03:19:52 pm »
Have a feeling he'll end up with Rafa somewhere next summer.

Also remember reading something about his relationship with Xavi Valero while he was here. Valero would tell him the goalkeepers weaknesses and traits which helped him too.

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2011, 03:19:59 pm »
Bellamy went on to be a better player.

Then he came back.

Anelka, arguably, as well.

Actually they are two very good examples.
Every week that goes by it just reinforces what a marvellous deal it was to get 50M for him.
I am sure he will score goals again, but he isn't going to be the same player, the pace, self confidence, and justification to have a side built around him have been lost.
I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.

Offline Brentieke

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2011, 03:20:23 pm »
He has lost that yard of pace, and most importantly that acceleration.

You're not going to catch him if he gets played through on goal, even now. But there was a time where you need two defenders to get goalside of Torres to stop him. You don't need that any more. If you get between Torres and the goal these days he's not likely to beat you. All he's got left is his ability to work half a yard for himself like he did against Chelsea for his 2nd goal last year.

He's a bigger, stronger Owen nowadays. Once his ability to beat a defender 1-vs-1 disappeared so did anything special about him. He's never been the most clinical finisher out there (although he's much better than I ever thought he'd be at Atleti). Once you take away his ability to create a goal for himself, which he's obviously lost, he's not that good.

You dont think he was a clinical finisher? Seriously?

The amount of half chances he'd score was unreal.

Get what you're saying though. Once he lost that yard of pace, his abilty to make something out absolutely nothing was gone. And so did alot of his impact. But how do you explain him scoring 9 for us in half a season to 1 goal in 22 appearences for Chelsea? He'd already lost that yard when he was at ours.
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Offline whtwht

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2011, 03:20:37 pm »
Have we ever had a striker that has left the club and gone on to improve?

Dean Saunders
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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2011, 03:23:53 pm »
Wouldn't agree with Anelka, as he's never been as good anywhere as he was at Arsenal for me.
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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2011, 03:23:56 pm »
You dont think he was a clinical finisher? Seriously?

The amount of half chances he'd score was unreal.

He was more clinical than I ever thought he'd be at Atleti. I don't think he was ever a Fowler though, and I don't think he ever had the sort of "nous" that someone like Trezeguet or Van Nistelrooy had in the role. How many tap-in's did you ever see Torres score, at any club? That Wolves one is one of the few I can remember. He wasn't a "right place, right time" striker that could cope with losing his explosiveness. Wouldn't say he was up there with the very top, top draw finishers like Eto'o or Villa either.
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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2011, 03:24:13 pm »
No Steven Gerrard, Recurring injuries, mental strength etc are the reasons he is the player he is now. 

And to be honest, I don't give a fuck what anyone says, his demise smells so sweet to me.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 03:27:12 pm by Amin »

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2011, 03:24:38 pm »
Morientes (a stretch I know)
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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2011, 03:24:40 pm »
Something I thought about as well after the Stoke game was how much I missed his cool finishing.

Remember the Villa away game that closed 2009? Did absolutely fuck all all game, barely got a touch let alone a sight on goal. Then in the last few seconds, the ball falls kindly for him and from a tight angle he expertly and colly slotted it home.


I thought of the same exact moment when Suarez missed the late chance. During his dizzying heights, Torres rarely made us think, "How did he miss that??", because of his clinical finishing and earned affection from the fans.

I think Torres needs to be reunited with Rafa, and a playmaker/prolific midfielder like Gerrard. Let's not forget, he still managed 18 goals in 22 PL games in 09-10.

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2011, 03:26:56 pm »
Morientes (a stretch I know)

Moro hit 5 goals, 5 goals.

Offline Brentieke

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2011, 03:27:22 pm »
He was more clinical than I ever thought he'd be at Atleti. I don't think he was ever a Fowler though, and I don't think he ever had the sort of "nous" that someone like Trezeguet or Van Nistelrooy had in the role. How many tap-in's did you ever see Torres score, at any club? That Wolves one is one of the few I can remember. He wasn't a "right place, right time" striker that could cope with losing his explosiveness. Wouldn't say he was up there with the very top, top draw finishers like Eto'o or Villa either.

No I agree he wasnt a goal poacher by any stretch. Could probably name around 10 tap ins but thats about it.  But, he did score with a huge amount of half chances. Some really clinical, ice cool strikes at important times as well.

Its scary how noone can even remember the last time you saw him even miss a chance.
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Offline Juan Loco

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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2011, 03:28:37 pm »
Wouldn't agree with Anelka, as he's never been as good anywhere as he was at Arsenal for me.

Can see what you're saying, but I'd have gone with his first full season or two at Chelsea personally. Think he was top scorer in one of them. He didn't have the whole impact out of nowhere that he had at Arsenal though.

Think he was really good at City and Bolton as well. Definitely the one we let go too soon.
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Re: Fernando Torres
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2011, 03:28:42 pm »
Hate to admit it but each time I see him it hurts to see what has become of him.

He was a Red, loved by us and on his way to becoming a legend, but its like he suddenly got possessed by the devil and acted the way he did, especially with Suarez coming in.

Don't know where he goes from here. AVB has a job on his hands to find a place for him in the team and get some confidence in him. Don't think he can just marginalise him, Abramovich just spunked £50m on him and would want to see some kind of return without looking like an idiot. Otherwise looks like its gonna be a sad return to Spain.

Would be really interesting to see what kind of figure Chelsea would be willing to take to offload him if it ever came to that.
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