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Virgil Van Dijk (Cpt)
PoetryInMotion:
I think Matip had been better than him this season overall, but he's still Top 3 in the world and definitely better than Dias. Also, even if keeps up the current level for another 4-5 seasons, he will be regarded as a Top 5-10 CB ever, just like how Stevie is a Top 5-10 B2B CM ever.
He will be in the shouts to be the best ever Liverpool player, that's for sure. His level before the injury for 2-3 seasons was Baresi, Beckenbauer peak levels imo.
He's still extremely dominant aerially, but he has been beaten a couple of times in ground duels which almost never happened pre-injury. It's still understandable. If he ever recovers the pre-injury form, it will be a bonus, if not, he is still great.
PoetryInMotion:
--- Quote from: Funky_Gibbons on January 22, 2022, 10:53:34 am ---There’s plenty of sites where you can get that information but it’s all a bit meaningless without context though.
For example we have the second highest possession stats in the league, averaging 62.4%. So we do a lot less defending than say Newcastle or Burnley who have the lowest possession.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, more informative than plain numbers will be percentage of duels won, ground and aerial. I'm guessing he will be one of the best in the league in those. I think he's also one of the most progressive passers from CB.
Funky_Gibbons:
--- Quote from: PoetryInMotion on January 22, 2022, 10:58:21 am ---Yeah, more informative than plain numbers will be percentage of duels won, ground and aerial. I'm guessing he will be one of the best in the league in those. I think he's also one of the most progressive passers from CB.
--- End quote ---
If you look at average aerial duels won per game you get;
Matip - 4.06
VVD - 3.84
Konate - 3.71
Percentage of aerial duels
Matip - 73.9
VVD - 72.3
Konate - 74.3
So they’re all similar on percentage of aerial duels won.
I’m fairly sceptical on some of the ground duels stats, for example a successful tackle is often considered when possession is regained.
And clearances are completely useless without context.
PoetryInMotion:
--- Quote from: Funky_Gibbons on January 22, 2022, 11:10:41 am ---If you look at average aerial duels won per game you get;
Matip - 4.06
VVD - 3.84
Konate - 3.71
Percentage of aerial duels
Matip - 73.9
VVD - 72.3
Konate - 74.3
So they’re all similar on percentage of aerial duels won.
I’m fairly sceptical on some of the ground duels stats, for example a successful tackle is often considered when possession is regained.
And clearances are completely useless without context.
--- End quote ---
Wow, all three are extremely dominant in the air..
PoetryInMotion:
--- Quote from: Drinks Sangria on January 10, 2022, 03:23:53 pm ---It's probably more like 1% in actuality, but when you look at what he was producing pre-injury and now, I'd be fairly confident in saying there's still 5-10 CBs in better form than him at present in world football, and pre-injury, absolutely zero that you could make a case for being better than Van Dijk without sounding stupid.
Right now, Matip, Ruben Dias, Skriniar, Diego Carlos, Marquinhos and little Rudiger are probably all outperforming VVD consistently. I'd maybe even argue for the inclusion of Konate. We know when he's right, he's better than all of these players by some way, however good most are. So I reframe my statement - better than 99% but you must admit he's not quite right still?
With the type of injury he had, general wisdom is as you say - 18 months. He was just back playing a lot of minutes for both ourselves and the Dutch National side very very quickly after his rehab.
--- End quote ---
Mate, I agree with Matip and maybe Rudiger, but on what basis are you saying that the likes of Dias, Skriniar and Marquinhos have been outperforming him consistently, let alone Diego Carlos, whose inclusion is ridiculous.
5-10 CBs better than him, even on current form, is ridiculous. I can't think of that many good CBs at all.
Bundesliga has no good defenders at that level. The last ones they had were Boateng and Hummel's when they were at their peak. Upamecano isn't consistent and Sule isn't at that level. In Serie-A, Bonucci and Chiellini are done, Koulibaly has declined - only Skriniar is really good, and even he isn't at VVD's level, even the current one. Neither is Marquinhos from Ligue 1, who is also good Btw. Among La Liga veterans, Pique has been long done, Godin has moved on and is done as well, Ramos is way past his peak and at PSG, Varane is struggling at United. Only Alaba is good and even he isn't aerially good. As for Dias, he has declined from his standards of last season statistically and is protected by City's possession and tactics. Konate - he's good and probably a big part of our future, but he's just played a dozen games for us and let's not pretend he's already World Class.
So, apart from Matip and maybe Rudiger, who are those 5-10 CBs again?
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