Topic: Mohamed Salah - Best in the World *

[redk84]

Would not take any other forward in the league right now
And i think he wants to prove he's the best this season too, man on fire

[Jookie]

You got to take into account the teams he played in, compared to say the likes of Owen, Fowler and Gerrard who played in some awful teams over the years, and in Gerrards case he wasn’t really a forward either.

Ian Rush scored over 100 of his Liverpool goals post the league win in 1990. Most of the teams he played in that period were poor.

I agree he played in some great teams but there’s absolutely no debate he’s our best No.9 and goalscorer ever. He was miles better than Owen and Fowler. Rush got 14 goals in just 25 European Cup matches. Banged 4 in semi finals.

When I see anyone put Fowler, Owen, Suarez of Torres in a best Liverpool XI ever than I automatically know they are under 40. Anyone who saw Rush in his pomp knows he’s the best out of that lot. I think Salah might end up in that bracket too when we talk about right sided attackers. If he stays at this level at Liverpool for another 2-3 seasons then he’ll be up there in any discussion about our best players ever (i.e is he Top 10-15 ever?)

[CraigDS]

I think it shows just how good, and unlucky, Fowler was to be honest. 2/3rds of his goals came at just turned 22 and under (120 by end of the 97 season). 

I’ve no doubt he’d have eclipsed all scoring records for us, and possibly the league, if he’d have stayed fit and healthy for the remainder of his career.

[Jookie]

I think it shows just how good, and unlucky, Fowler was to be honest. 2/3rds of his goals came at just turned 22 and under (120 by end of the 97 season). 

I’ve no doubt he’d have eclipsed all scoring records for us, and possibly the league, if he’d have stayed fit and healthy for the remainder of his career.

He’d have had a chance but would need to have shown an ability to do it at a higher level than early to mid 90’s PL football (where the standard of domestic football was the lowest I’ve even known).

There’s a reasonable chance Fowler would have excelled as the league got stronger and we played in CL if he’d stayed away from major injury. It’s a big what if moment though. Could he have been our greatest striker ever? Could have gotten better?

Fowler was the shining star in what was an average to good  team in the mid 90’s. His record is unbelievable when you consider his wheat that point. Injuries hindered is progress massively. I loved Fowler in that team but taking off any rose tinted glasses I’d say he’s probably the 5th (at a push 4th) best No.9 type striker I’ve see for us. As a goalscorer I’d say 5th or 6th (now including Salah). Mainly because the others scored goals at another (better) domestic level and had better European records (Fowler only scored 14 goals in 44 European appearances with 9 coming in games against Sion, Haka, Brann Bergen & Kosice)

[JackWard33]

No idea and I'm not really arsed, I'm commenting more on the "fuck it give him whatever, give him £3m a week" attitudes. What we can all get, is that whatever he earns, the club can afford it. Welshred said he's already on about £400k a week, but loads is bonuses, which is good as these mean we are hitting targets, both for him and I'd assume sponsors. Once you go down the road of throwing huge unaffordable salaries at players regardless, as some on here would happily do - and why fan ownership is a fucking stupid idea - then we're fucked.

He's loved here, he appears to love it and the supporters, but IF his agent starts demanding a wage that is not what we can afford, then see you lad. If the situation did arise where we as a club couldn't match the offer from say PSG, then if he chooses to move, its thanks for the memories and ta-ra lad. FSG would get shit loads of abuse off the knobheads, but we cannot be fucking the club for one player. Barca fucked themselves by giving Messi what they did, regardless of how much he brought in, because then other players agents will say "if my player is only half a Messi, then he's worth £1m a week". If the club put Mo on a huge unaffordable salary, then the agents for Alisson, Virgil, Trent and Fab could all say "we represent the best player in the world in his position so want parity". Its a dangerous road.

We clearly won't give him a blank cheque - nor should we and it also seems pretty clear he'll be our highest paid player if he stays beyond next summer

It's totally fair to say that if Salah is going to stay beyond this current contract he'll have to take less than he'd get on the open market so it is going to come down to how much he wants to stay. Haaland will move next summer for what ... 6/700k a week? ... why would Salah be signficantly less in the market?
It would also be competely fair for him to agree to take less becasue he loves it here or for him to say he'd like 'one big move' and to maximise his money before his career ends - either would be understandable 

By the way at what point do we conclude he's likely not signing another contract - post this year end? Its notable all 3 of our front 3 are now under the 2 year mark left I think

[duvva 💅]

Rushie's number is just mind boggling!   

And to think over 300 were against Everton

[duvva 💅]

Imagine if he didn't waste these two years at Juventus...

He only missed the 87/88 season, was back for 88/89

[bird_lfc]

Rushie's number is just mind boggling!   

It’s a mental number but Robbie’s really stands out for me. Wondering how good he could have really been if he stayed with us.

[El Lobo]

It’s a mental number but Robbie’s really stands out for me. Wondering how good he could have really been if he stayed with us.

His knee ligament injury really did knacker him as a proper top player

Before that in four seasons he scored 116 in 188 games (still only 22). 0.61 goals per game

After that in 14 seasons he scored 137 in 402 games. 0.34 goals per game

[RedForeverTT]

It’s unfortunate, he was the most naturally gifted and exciting striker I have seen. Medicine and sports science wasn’t as advanced during his time not to mention our club discipline. If he had played today he would have a longer and more prosperous career.

[Sharado]

By the way at what point do we conclude he's likely not signing another contract - post this year end? Its notable all 3 of our front 3 are now under the 2 year mark left I think

Of those 3 Mo is clearly the most sellable 'asset' but, in my view at least, the hardest to replace by some distance. I think you can put forward a very convincing argument he's the best player in the world based on the way he's started this season. Long may it continue. And long may it continue for Liverpool, more specifically.

[the_red_pill]

I've rewatched a compilation again and I must say... what an absolutely fantastic, fantastic player!
Gold. Absolute Gold!

Does sooo much for the team, sets up sooo many goals, delivers soo many finger-licking crosses, makes so many devilish decoy runs...

And that's nothing yet! The goals- oh my word! I've forgotten some of these.
He can thread a goal through the eye of a needle, after a mazy run, while unbalanced! Often he'll be surrounded after a goal by 5/6 players who were all trying to get the ball off him and bring him down.

If you look at our goals... just count the number of times, he is involved and often the key man. (although tbf- all 3 are playing off each other)
Salah really makes things come together there up front. If ever the phrase "tip of the spear" meant something- it can be applied to Mo.
What an amazing player! A Great in my eyes.

A machine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STsFQj4aZM0


A team player:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4C42RF18us

lol@ 2:29
Goal @6:24 - 6:29 is just so Salah!

[rob1966]

He only missed the 87/88 season, was back for 88/89

Came back a better player too.

[Clayton Bigsby]

I can only think you never watched Gerrard at his peak if you think that. He was phenomenal.

Recency bias 101. Anyone speaking that kind of Gerrard slander needs to revaluate their life choices

[Bobinhood]

Is that Dick Forshaw a former player or a line item from an in depth evaluation of the actual playing value of Man U players? 

[Jon2lfc]

When I see anyone put Fowler, Owen, Suarez of Torres in a best Liverpool XI ever than I automatically know they are under 40. Anyone who saw Rush in his pomp knows he’s the best out of that lot.

I do not want to derail this 'Salah' thread, but I just had to pop in to address what you posted..
Come on mate, let's be objective here.. forget Owen and Torres for a moment.. but Fowler and Suarez? It could easily be argued that Rushie wouldn't have scored some of the goals that both Robbie and Luis scored. Whereas they both could do what Rushie could. Especially Fowler.

And I'm over 40.

[PoetryInMotion]

With all due respect to Stevie. Salah is in a different league all together.

Stevie was world class but salah is a superstar.

What? Stevie was the best midfielder in the world from 2005-2009 and had plenty of good seasons from 2000-2004 and in 2014 as well. He is still the most all-round player I've seen and probably had everything you need as a midfielder. He was leading us with his performances to one CL knockout round after another when we were quite frankly inferior as a squad to plenty of other big names. There are possibly only 5-6 CMs in history like Matthaus, Falcao, Didi, Xavi, Ocwirk and Neeskens who were better than him and only marginally. Wtf are you on about?

[newterp]

With all due respect to Stevie. Salah is in a different league all together.

Stevie was world class but salah is a superstar.

This is gold. Gold, I tells ya.

[Armand9]

I do not want to derail this 'Salah' thread, but I just had to pop in to address what you posted..
Come on mate, let's be objective here.. forget Owen and Torres for a moment.. but Fowler and Suarez? It could easily be argued that Rushie wouldn't have scored some of the goals that both Robbie and Luis scored. Whereas they both could do what Rushie could. Especially Fowler.

And I'm over 40.

then you should know better 

until i fucking see it, i aint taking any 'oh what could've ...' against Rushie, i saw his whole career, i've seen all the others mentioned careers too (with us of course) and no one is up there with Rushie at this point, as blessed as we have been with some incredible frontmen, his record speaks for itself so until someone surpasses that (or is very close with a much higher ratio per game), throw away comments that so and so could do what rushie did to his level for so long doesn't cut the mustard (btw staying fit and available/having longevity is all part of it, some seem to forget that, it's not a given, it factors in to a players level of success/failure - and incidentally, is another feather in Mo's cap cos the dude is almost always available)

if i wanted to watch goals no one else is likely to score i'd go watch Matt Le Tissier's highlight reel cos it's out of this world

to consistently rack up the goals year on year on year is what elite goal scoring is all about and no has done it better than rushie for liverpool

[Mister Flip Flop]

Wouldn't swap him for another player in the world at present. Who's better right now in all seriousness. Give him the contract and let's keep him here for life.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Wouldn't swap him for another player in the world at present. Who's better right now in all seriousness. Give him the contract and let's keep him here for life.

As a goalscorer the list starts at Robert and ends at Lewandowski, but he's doing it in an inferior league and I personally wouldn't swap them.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Wow there's some shit getting posted in here.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Well now I feel old. We have posters here who didn't watch Stevie at his peak.

[kj999]

Yep, some utter drivel in here.

Salah is under-rated criminally by some, even some of our own fans.

He is absolutely phenomenal and in my opinion will go down as one of our all-time greats, especially if he stays for a few more years.

... surely we can talk about how good Salah is without having to say he is better or no-as-good-as other Reds legends tho?

Stevie, for me, is the greatest player ever to pull on a Red shirt. I am 41 so I never saw Kenny in his prime. My dad says Kenny is the greatest, but Stevie is a close second. Of course, its all opinion, but it is also opinion dictated by the players one has watched, how old you are, etc.

Rushie was my idol as a young boy growing up, and God was my first absolute hero... he was the player i was in the playgorund as a kid, absolutely loved him.

With Rushie, i was too young to have seen him week in week out as a matchgoing fan or watching on TV regularly... you see some highlights reels of Rushie and a lot of his goals were poachers strikes or classy finishes, but seemingly nothing spectacular or out of the ordinary... but then you see other highlights reels of RUshie and you realise he could score some absolute worldies too... just he scored SO MANY GOALS that the worldies get lost amongst a million seemingly more straightforward goals...

Anyway, back on point. Mo is a phenomenon. An absolutely fantastic footballer and we should enjoy every minute of him.

[Jookie]

I do not want to derail this 'Salah' thread, but I just had to pop in to address what you posted..
Come on mate, let's be objective here.. forget Owen and Torres for a moment.. but Fowler and Suarez? It could easily be argued that Rushie wouldn't have scored some of the goals that both Robbie and Luis scored. Whereas they both could do what Rushie could. Especially Fowler.

And I'm over 40.

There’s no way it can be argued Fowler or Suarez were as good a strikers for Liverpool than Rush. I know football is all about opinions but I struggle to see how anyone could argue Fowler was as good or better than Rush.

Rush was the king of goals and scoring important goals. 4 in European Cup semi finals, key goals like Bilbao away on European cup successes, 7 goals in domestic cup finals, loads of key goals in double winning season (including loads of winners in FA Cup run), about a million goals against the Ev.

Ian Rush made a difference when it mattered like no other No.9 we’d ever had. Don’t care if he didn’t blam in shots from 30 yards out against Norwich or Villa. When it mattered most Ian Rush delivered the goods and was imperative to us winning loads of trophies. In that regard Salah is similar. Delivers goals in the bucket load but also scores in big games with good regularity. I’m not sure you can say Suarez or Fowler did that with any sort of regularity despite both being brilliant players.

[kj999]

There’s no way it can be argued Fowler or Suarez were as good a strikers for Liverpool than Rush. I know football is all about opinions but I struggle to see how anyone could argue Fowler was as good or better than Rush.

Rush was the king of goals and scoring important goals. 4 in European Cup semi finals, key goals like Bilbao away on European cup successes, 7 goals in domestic cup finals, loads of key goals in double winning season (including loads of winners in FA Cup run), about a million goals against the Ev.

Ian Rush made a difference when it mattered like no other No.9 we’d ever had. Don’t care if he didn’t blam in shots from 30 yards out against Norwich or Villa. When it mattered most Ian Rush delivered the goods and was imperative to us winning loads of trophies. In that regard Salah is similar. Delivers goals in the bucket load but also scores in big games with good regularity. I’m not sure you can say Suarez or Fowler did that with any sort of regularity despite both being brilliant players.

Agreed.

And the main reason Suarez and Fowler didn't seem to score crucial goals in crucial, big games is because we had less of such games in their time due to us not being as competetive...Whereas Rush and Salah have scored in crucial games in title race after title race, European Cup run after European Cup run, season after season.

[RyanBabel19]

No idea and I'm not really arsed, I'm commenting more on the "fuck it give him whatever, give him £3m a week" attitudes. What we can all get, is that whatever he earns, the club can afford it. Welshred said he's already on about £400k a week, but loads is bonuses, which is good as these mean we are hitting targets, both for him and I'd assume sponsors. Once you go down the road of throwing huge unaffordable salaries at players regardless, as some on here would happily do - and why fan ownership is a fucking stupid idea - then we're fucked.

He's loved here, he appears to love it and the supporters, but IF his agent starts demanding a wage that is not what we can afford, then see you lad. If the situation did arise where we as a club couldn't match the offer from say PSG, then if he chooses to move, its thanks for the memories and ta-ra lad. FSG would get shit loads of abuse off the knobheads, but we cannot be fucking the club for one player. Barca fucked themselves by giving Messi what they did, regardless of how much he brought in, because then other players agents will say "if my player is only half a Messi, then he's worth £1m a week". If the club put Mo on a huge unaffordable salary, then the agents for Alisson, Virgil, Trent and Fab could all say "we represent the best player in the world in his position so want parity". Its a dangerous road.

Pretty sure a lot of the posts you’re talking about are EXTREMELY tongue in cheek and merely people admiring what a wonderful player we have on our hands after some great performances. No one wants us to give him a blank fucking cheque

[redk84]

I think it shows just how good, and unlucky, Fowler was to be honest. 2/3rds of his goals came at just turned 22 and under (120 by end of the 97 season). 

I’ve no doubt he’d have eclipsed all scoring records for us, and possibly the league, if he’d have stayed fit and healthy for the remainder of his career.

Absolutely
Lethal finisher

[Cu Chulainn]

With all due respect to Stevie. Salah is in a different league all together.

Stevie was world class but salah is a superstar.

Mo is wonderful, but Stevie was phenomenal, a force of nature, the most inspirational player I've ever seen in a red shirt.

[Jookie]

Agreed.

And the main reason Suarez and Fowler didn't seem to score crucial goals in crucial, big games is because we had less of such games in their time due to us not being as competetive...Whereas Rush and Salah have scored in crucial games in title race after title race, European Cup run after European Cup run, season after season.

Fowler played in 5 cup finals for Liverpool and scored twice. So that’s not too bad. He also had 2 title challenging seasons - 95/96 and 96/97. Or at least seasons we were in touching distance (6 points or less) of leaders with 10 games to go. Fowler scored 5 in 10 and 4 in 10 games during the end of each season. Again not bad but not the epitome of making the difference when it counts either.

Ian Rush in 1985/86 scored 7 in the last 10 league games, winner in FA Cup QF, 2 extra time goals in SF and then 2 in the final for good measure. In 1983/84 he bagged winner away against Bilbao in European cup (after drawing 0-0 at home). Winner at home in 1-0 win against Benfica. 2 in the semi final then scored a pen in the shoot out in the final. Also bagged 10 goals in last 10 league games and crucial goal in 2nd leg of League Cup semi final.

I’m not saying this stuff to do Fowler down. He’s arguably our best player between winning the league in 1991 and the treble season. But he wasn’t Ian Rush. And didn’t come up with the goals when it mattered with the same regularity as Rush. Rush may have had better players around him but the standard or domestic competition was significantly higher in 1980’s compared with early to mid 90’s plus Rush had a much better European record playing in a better comp (European Cup versus UEFA/Cup winners Cup). Suarez has even less to pull upon than Fowler when it comes to delivering performances and results when it truly mattered.

[SinceSixtyFive]

Had a pint with Rushie in Dublin once.

Those stats are just mind-blowing and to my mind he DID it. Never mind might have or could have. Unfair to compare these lads though. Apples and oranges in different boxes etc.

Mo Salah is fucking great.

[CraigDS]

He also had 2 title challenging seasons - 95/96 and 96/97. Or at least seasons we were in touching distance (6 points or less) of leaders with 10 games to go. Fowler scored 5 in 10 and 4 in 10 games during the end of each season.

Ian Rush in 1985/86 scored 7 in the last 10 league games. In 1983/84 .... Also bagged 10 goals in last 10 league games

I think you're manipulating stats which prove what you want. The last 10 games bring no more points for a win than the previous 28 (or more in some of Rush's seasons) so not sure why you give the goals in those games any more importance - as if a player hadn't scored in those other games then you'd not be in the running come the last 10 anyway.

Fowler scored 28 in 38 during 95/96, and 18 in 32 the following season. Both a massive contribution.


I agree with you that ultimately Rush likely gets into an all time XI over Fowler because of longevity, but I think it's harsh to try and downplay Fowler's contribution simply because he didn't play during a more successful era (I mean if we're doing that we could downplay Gerrard who didn't win anywhere near as much as his ability prob deserved).

[red1977]

Fowler played in 5 cup finals for Liverpool and scored twice. So that’s not too bad. He also had 2 title challenging seasons - 95/96 and 96/97. Or at least seasons we were in touching distance (6 points or less) of leaders with 10 games to go. Fowler scored 5 in 10 and 4 in 10 games during the end of each season. Again not bad but not the epitome of making the difference when it counts either.

Ian Rush in 1985/86 scored 7 in the last 10 league games, winner in FA Cup QF, 2 extra time goals in SF and then 2 in the final for good measure. In 1983/84 he bagged winner away against Bilbao in European cup (after drawing 0-0 at home). Winner at home in 1-0 win against Benfica. 2 in the semi final then scored a pen in the shoot out in the final. Also bagged 10 goals in last 10 league games and crucial goal in 2nd leg of League Cup semi final.

I’m not saying this stuff to do Fowler down. He’s arguably our best player between winning the league in 1991 and the treble season. But he wasn’t Ian Rush. And didn’t come up with the goals when it mattered with the same regularity as Rush. Rush may have had better players around him but the standard or domestic competition was significantly higher in 1980’s compared with early to mid 90’s plus Rush had a much better European record playing in a better comp (European Cup versus UEFA/Cup winners Cup). Suarez has even less to pull upon than Fowler when it comes to delivering performances and results when it truly mattered.

Fowler was done at 22 pretty much, Rushie had so much longer. Biggest shame in on the pitch footballing terms for me. I was devvo’d because it stopped him in his tracks and never came back from it. If you put Rushie up against Fowler Rushie is hands down the winner but if Robbie didn’t get injured he would have had a challenger for sure. It kills me that Robbie dropped off from his injury. He’s my Hero and was a breathtaking forward, had every finish, but them ones that found the inside of the post from the othersidr of the area were unique, because they found there way in so often. Raw, just knowing where to put it. how did he do them ones so often. Anyway, Rush is top man and deservedly so. What could have been though. I still think about it but I am greatfull for those three 30 goal seasons from Robbie he was better than anything I had ever seen from a pure finisher. The Cruyffs, diving headers, free kicks (sometimes) taps ins, outside the box stuff which he had were different to Rushie’s pure instincts and work rate. Anyway. (Rushie was alike in many ways just think Robbie had a tiny bit more in his bag, ended prematurely)

Ps: lovely informative stuff Jookie.

[Garlicbread]

And before the injury in '98 derby it felt like Robbie was a bit out of focus too with getting sent off against Everton and missing a couple of games in the run-in and there was a game vs Bolton in 97/98 when we were one nil up and he smacked a Bolton player in the face and got sent off and we went on to draw. And by then Owen was kinda taking over as the main man upfront.

[red1977]

And before the injury in '98 derby it felt like Robbie was a bit out of focus too with getting sent off against Everton and missing a couple of games in the run-in and there was a game vs Bolton in 97/98 when we were one nil up and he smacked a Bolton player in the face and got sent off and we went on to draw. And by then Owen was kinda taking over as the main man upfront.

Houllier apologist for Phasing out and selling Robbie? Owen never took over. Robbie’s was never the same after his injury, but it was sacrilidge to sell Robbie. Playing him at 10 and slagging him off etc. Bitter I am.

[So… Howard Philips]

Thought this was the Salah thread.

[red1977]

Sorry for derailing the thread.

[rob1966]

Thought this was the Salah thread.

Run out of things to say about him. You can only heap so much praise on one man.

[Jookie]

I think you're manipulating stats which prove what you want. The last 10 games bring no more points for a win than the previous 28 (or more in some of Rush's seasons) so not sure why you give the goals in those games any more importance - as if a player hadn't scored in those other games then you'd not be in the running come the last 10 anyway.

Fowler scored 28 in 38 during 95/96, and 18 in 32 the following season. Both a massive contribution.


I agree with you that ultimately Rush likely gets into an all time XI over Fowler because of longevity, but I think it's harsh to try and downplay Fowler's contribution simply because he didn't play during a more successful era (I mean if we're doing that we could downplay Gerrard who didn't win anywhere near as much as his ability prob deserved).

It’s not necessarily about winning things but making a difference when it matters. Fowler did that on occasions but less so than Rush or Gerrard. To me that’s the measure of a great player versus a very good one.

My main point about Fowler and comparing him to Rush is mainly about quality of opposition. Premier League was really poor quality from about 1991 to 1997 ish. English clubs did absolutely nothing in Europe in that period. Beyond United hardly any teams even got to the QF stage in CL or UEFA cup in that period ( think Forest did and us). The foreigners rule had an impact but biggest factor was quality of the league.

Fowler at his peak played in a relatively poor domestic competition and 2nd tier European competition. His European and international records are nothing to write home about. The biggest shame is that the injuries cost him (and us) the potential to see him at a higher level, both domestically as PL improved and in CL as Liverpool improved and qualified. I’ll always be grateful for what Fowler gave us  as fans in the 1990’s and early 00’s. But he’s not even in the same conversation as Rush or Salah. I personally think Suarez and Torres were better players. Owen and Fowler is a toss of a coin. Fowler more rounded player, Owen more the big game player for goals.

[RedG13]

On another note, I think that Salah could finish the season on more goals for the club than Owen. He is on four goals already, so a 33-goal season, perhaps?

1. Ian Rush – 346
2. Roger Hunt – 285
3. Gordon Hodgson – 241
4. Billy Liddell – 228
5. Steven Gerrard – 186
6. Robbie Fowler – 183
7. Kenny Dalglish – 172
8. Michael Owen – 158
9. Harry Chambers – 151
10. Mohamed Salah – 130
11. Sam Raybould – 130
12. Jack Parkinson – 128
13. Dick Forshaw – 123
14. Ian St John – 118
15. Jack Balmer – 110
16. John Barnes – 108
17. Sadio Mane – 100
18. Kevin Keegan – 100

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/09/the-18-players-who-have-scored-100-or-more-goals-for-liverpool/

He averaged 31.25 goals a season in 4 season. If he extends though age 35(10 season) and keep that pace he ends up #2 on the list. He will very likely end up top 5 and with a good shout at the top 3.
Hard to see anybody topping Rush unless it somebody though and can take over that main goal scorer roles around age 21-23.