Author Topic: Boxing thread (Read 4147447 times)

Fucking hell. Was just thinking to myself that Ortiz was putting on a clinic.

Wilder's power is something else. He landed one shot all night.

One for the purists maybe, but I'd love to see Ortiz v Usyk.

I've been a good boy · « **Reply #61169 on:** November 24, 2019, 09:09:05 am »

Wilder has such freakish KO power. Didn't even look like a KO punch, just a straight right that Klitschko dropped AJ with. Wouldn't fancy Joshua's chances against him, he'd definitely get dropped.

Ravishing Rick Dude · « **Reply #61170 on:** November 24, 2019, 09:24:08 am »

Quote from: King.Keita on November 24, 2019, 09:09:05 am

Wilder has such freakish KO power. Didn't even look like a KO punch, just a straight right that Klitschko dropped AJ with. Wouldn't fancy Joshua's chances against him, he'd definitely get dropped.

I'm afraid Joshua is 4th best boxer currently, behind Ortiz, Wilder and Fury.

Lusty · « **Reply #61171 on:** November 24, 2019, 10:14:10 am »

Quote from: Ravishing Rick Rude on November 24, 2019, 09:24:08 am

I'm afraid Joshua is 4th best boxer currently, behind Ortiz, Wilder and Fury.

Haven't seen anything to suggest Ortiz beats Joshua.

You could make a case for Ruiz (obviously) and Usyk.

rawcusk8 · « **Reply #61172 on:** November 24, 2019, 10:31:01 am »

Had it on record and just watched it back. Gutted for Ruiz, thought he put on a great show. Wilder has that great power to bail him out, not a bad quality to have but he looked so limited last night. Over to you, AJ.

Broad Spectrum · « **Reply #61173 on:** November 24, 2019, 12:06:12 pm »

That’s the beauty with Wilder though, he’s such a technically limited boxer, but if he wins his next 2/3 fights he’ll go down as an all time great, up there with Lennox, Tyson etc. I think a fight with AJ would be very similar; AJ boxing his head off for 6/7 rounds and then Wilder catching him with that straight right and ending the fight.

Can’t really be arsed watching a Callum Smith fight again until he finds a proper opponent. If he really wants to propel himself to the elite level he should take note of Wilders approach and fight the best fighters in the division. I understand it’s boxing and organisations often do all they can to ensure fights don’t happen, but he needs to be pushing on now. Obviously last night was a poor performance, but he’s got the size advantage and more than adequate technical ability to trouble the juice head if they can make the fight happen.

Ravishing Rick Dude · « **Reply #61174 on:** November 24, 2019, 12:26:00 pm »

Quote from: Lusty on November 24, 2019, 10:14:10 am

Haven't seen anything to suggest Ortiz beats Joshua.

You could make a case for Ruiz (obviously) and Usyk.

Oh sorry, i wanted to say Ruiz not Ortiz.

RedSince86 · « **Reply #61175 on:** November 24, 2019, 03:22:05 pm »

I'd like to see Usyk against Wilder down the line, hopefully in 2020 or 2021.

Usyk's footwork and boxing IQ would be fascinating against Wilder, just the hard task of avoiding the big right from Wilder for Usyk.

That fight would just be as exciting a prospect of the Fury rematch.

Looking good now the HW scene finally, some amazing match ups among 4-5 fighters right now, hopefully the boxing politics/Shelly Finkel/TV networks don't put a spanner in the works.

Alf · « **Reply #61176 on:** November 24, 2019, 03:47:46 pm »

Wilder is a one trick pony, that said it's a hell of a trick. Nowhere near greatness yet though.

I thought Callum Smith was poor last night, no doubt the cut affected him and in truth I don't think he wanted the Ryder fight.

Lusty · « **Reply #61177 on:** November 24, 2019, 08:25:01 pm »

Quote from: Alf on November 24, 2019, 03:47:46 pm

Wilder is a one trick pony, that said it's a hell of a trick. Nowhere near greatness yet though.

He's absolutely mental. I honestly can't remember anyone like him. There's plenty of big punchers throughout history but they can all box even if it's a little bit. Can't think of anyone who is so devoid of boxing ability but only needs one punch to land all night.

He lost every round against Ortiz, barely landed anything at all but the one punch that did land was all he needed. Very nearly did the same to Fury. He could be 11 rounds down and you'd still be on the edge of your seat in the 12th.

Clayton Bigsby · « **Reply #61178 on:** November 24, 2019, 08:34:08 pm »

Quote from: Lusty on November 24, 2019, 08:25:01 pm

He's absolutely mental. I honestly can't remember anyone like him. There's plenty of big punchers throughout history but they can all box even if it's a little bit. Can't think of anyone who is so devoid of boxing ability but only needs one punch to land all night.

He lost every round against Ortiz, barely landed anything at all but the one punch that did land was all he needed. Very nearly did the same to Fury. He could be 11 rounds down and you'd still be on the edge of your seat in the 12th.

And that is why I enjoy watching him so much. Nuclear power in that right hand.

slotmachine · « **Reply #61179 on:** November 24, 2019, 09:54:19 pm »

Quote from: Broad Spectrum on November 24, 2019, 12:06:12 pm

That’s the beauty with Wilder though, he’s such a technically limited boxer, but if he wins his next 2/3 fights he’ll go down as an all time great, up there with Lennox, Tyson etc.

Fucking hell!!!!!!!!!! Wilder an all time great up there with Lennox, Tyson. Wilder couldnt lay a glove on a 56 year old fighter until the superb right hand. Wilder is 6 foot 7 with very long arms and he has no jab or any boxing skills whatsoever. He wouldnt be in the top 25 heavyweights of the last 30 years never mind an all time great.

Wilder has a powerful right hand but its telegraphed to fuck because he has no fucking jab to set it up with. He just uses a jab as a range finder for the right hand and shitty other fighters with limited skills and slow reactions end up getting caught. He might be an all time great in terms of punching power but doesnt have the skills in the toolbox to be considered one of the best heavy's of all time no matter what happens in the next 2 or 3 fights.

Lusty · « **Reply #61180 on:** November 25, 2019, 09:58:21 am »

Quote from: slotmachine on November 24, 2019, 09:54:19 pm

Fucking hell!!!!!!!!!! Wilder an all time great up there with Lennox, Tyson. Wilder couldnt lay a glove on a 56 year old fighter until the superb right hand. Wilder is 6 foot 7 with very long arms and he has no jab or any boxing skills whatsoever. He wouldnt be in the top 25 heavyweights of the last 30 years never mind an all time great.

Wilder has a powerful right hand but its telegraphed to fuck because he has no fucking jab to set it up with. He just uses a jab as a range finder for the right hand and shitty other fighters with limited skills and slow reactions end up getting caught. He might be an all time great in terms of punching power but doesnt have the skills in the toolbox to be considered one of the best heavy's of all time no matter what happens in the next 2 or 3 fights.

Yeah that comment was a bit over the top, but if he wins his next 2/3 fights he'll have Tyson Fury and one of Joshua or Usyk on his CV so things start to look a bit better.

I can't believe how limited he is boxing wise, genuinely baffles me. But that one punch KO power is something special. Tyson was obviously a murderous puncher but it was backed up with a perfectly executed system to slip inside jabs and land from weird angles. Lewis had a big right hand but he had the jab and the footwork to get you right where he wanted you before he threw it. Wilder is absolutely clueless but his power is such that it doesn't really matter, he only needs one shot all night. I can't remember anyone like it.

Quote from: Broad Spectrum on November 24, 2019, 12:06:12 pm

Can’t really be arsed watching a Callum Smith fight again until he finds a proper opponent. If he really wants to propel himself to the elite level he should take note of Wilders approach and fight the best fighters in the division.

This comment made me laugh though, have you seen Wilder's CV? 40 odd fights against cab drivers and a version of Tyson Fury he though was washed up. His only decent win is going to be eligible for his bus pass soon.

Samie · « **Reply #61181 on:** November 25, 2019, 12:16:31 pm »

That's what you've got with Wilder, out skilled and out thought for six rounds and then lands a bomb. Like Alf said a one trick pony but that pony is fuckin' devastating. Definitely in the top 10 P4P KO artist's in history.

But beating up a pensioner is a no-no Deontay.

Broad Spectrum · « **Reply #61182 on:** November 25, 2019, 01:30:07 pm »

Assuming he wins by KO, if he beats Fury and AJ/Ruiz or even Usyk to unify the division 100% he’ll be in top 10-20 HWs. Knocking someone out wins you the fight, so doesn’t really matter how technically limited he is. And to be fair against Ortiz, he set the right hand up with the jab, you don’t use the jab as a range finder in the 7th! He set that right hand up, end of story. I know it sounds mad, not saying he’s anywhere near there yet, but he’s clearly said he wants Fury and then the winner of AJ/Ruiz. If he wins both by KO he’ll go down in Heavyweight history it’s really not that far fetched, but I agree there’s a long way to go.

Come on I can’t be alone here in wanting to see Smith really throw it down with the best. He’s clearly good enough to fight anyone, and given his size could easily move up to LHW with the right training camp behind him. Think that could have gone either way on Saturday, but his next fight has to be with a Canelo, Saunders etc.

Samie · « **Reply #61183 on:** November 25, 2019, 01:33:58 pm »

Callum is massive for a Super middle, Like i said before he's definitely and comfortably could go up to Crusierweight. Next stop Anfield though against the fraud Canelo.

Lusty · « **Reply #61184 on:** November 25, 2019, 01:36:59 pm »

Quote from: Broad Spectrum on November 25, 2019, 01:30:07 pm

Assuming he wins by KO, if he beats Fury and AJ/Ruiz or even Usyk to unify the division 100% he’ll be in top 10-20 HWs. Knocking someone out wins you the fight, so doesn’t really matter how technically limited he is. And to be fair against Ortiz, he set the right hand up with the jab, you don’t use the jab as a range finder in the 7th! He set that right hand up, end of story. I know it sounds mad, not saying he’s anywhere near there yet, but he’s clearly said he wants Fury and then the winner of AJ/Ruiz. If he wins both by KO he’ll go down in Heavyweight history it’s really not that far fetched, but I agree there’s a long way to go.

Come on I can’t be alone here in wanting to see Smith really throw it down with the best. He’s clearly good enough to fight anyone, and given his size could easily move up to LHW with the right training camp behind him. Think that could have gone either way on Saturday, but his next fight has to be with a Canelo, Saunders etc.

I think what you've said about Wilder you could say about all of them. If AJ wins the rematch and then goes on to beat Usyk, Wilder and Fury then he's up there. Same if Fury beats all of them. I don't think it will be that clear cut and they'll all take wins off each other. Makes you appreciate the likes of Lennox who beat anyone who's anyone in that era.

And I wasn't disagreeing that Callum needs to step up, more that Wilder is not the model to follow, unless you want to see him fight bums for 40 fights before looking for a live opponent

What worries me is they keep talking about a mega fight for him in the Summer at Anfield, but that's 9 months of sitting on his hands and fucking about in negotiations. I think he needs to forget that and stay busy, go on the road if he needs to. On Saturday you could tell he hadn't had a competitive fight for a long time.

Clayton Bigsby · « **Reply #61185 on:** November 25, 2019, 01:46:31 pm »

Anfield is a pipe dream. Apparently only 2k in Echo on Saturday so where will all these extra fans come from for the Anfield match? Is Canelo that big a star to the casual in the UK?

Samie · « **Reply #61186 on:** November 25, 2019, 01:48:37 pm »

You hype it to the rafters and one thing Eddie is good at is hype. Hype it like this is your only chance to watch Canelo Alavarez and they'll come.

RedSince86 · « **Reply #61187 on:** November 25, 2019, 03:10:48 pm »

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/X9O4ybkRzzw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/X9O4ybkRzzw</a>

1892tillforever · « **Reply #61188 on:** November 25, 2019, 03:18:12 pm »

Wilder reminds me of a fitter, more athletic, Earnie Shavers. The Black Acorn could KO a charging rhino when he landed. Mind you, Shavers was a much better boxer than Wilder!

Of course, any notion of Wilder being an all-time great HW is fanciful. However, he would have a puncher's chance against almost any heavyweight in history, barring perhaps Oliver McCall and maybe James Toney. He would probably lose to both because he wouldn't be able to knock either one out! You would expect the greats to embarrass Wilder but he could always land one of his bombs and change everything completely.

Ray K · « **Reply #61189 on:** November 25, 2019, 03:29:39 pm »

For you boxing experts in this thread: did (or does) Wilder do anything to set up the KO punch like on Saturday, or does he just throw it the best opportunity he can get? And is there any way for an opponent to avoid it?

I'd like to think there's more to it than just hitting the power punch cheat mode button, but from what I've seen of it it doesn't look like he hits him with half a dozen left jabs before the big punch or anything.

Lusty · « **Reply #61190 on:** November 25, 2019, 03:32:10 pm »

Quote from: 1892tillforever on November 25, 2019, 03:18:12 pm

Wilder reminds me of a fitter, more athletic, Earnie Shavers. The Black Acorn could KO a charging rhino when he landed. Mind you, Shavers was a much better boxer than Wilder!

Of course, any notion of Wilder being an all-time great HW is fanciful. However, he would have a puncher's chance against almost any heavyweight in history, barring perhaps Oliver McCall and maybe James Toney. He would probably lose to both because he wouldn't be able to knock either one out! You would expect the greats to embarrass Wilder but he could always land one of his bombs and change everything completely.

James Toney would beat him without having to take the cigar out of his mouth mate

One thing we don't know about Wilder is what his chin is like. He looked like he was gone in the first fight with Ortiz before the bell went. Him versus AJ would be the true test, because you'd think Joshua would land a few.

I've been a good boy · « **Reply #61191 on:** November 25, 2019, 03:40:32 pm »

Quote from: Lusty on November 25, 2019, 03:32:10 pm

James Toney would beat him without having to take the cigar out of his mouth mate

One thing we don't know about Wilder is what his chin is like. He looked like he was gone in the first fight with Ortiz before the bell went. Him versus AJ would be the true test, because you'd think Joshua would land a few.

Which is why I’m hoping Joshua beats Ruiz and Wilder beats Fury. Maybe then we’ll get to see them square off, the magnitude of that fight could be similar to Mayweather v Pacquiao.

Clayton Bigsby · « **Reply #61192 on:** November 25, 2019, 03:45:30 pm »

Quote from: Ray K on November 25, 2019, 03:29:39 pm

For you boxing experts in this thread: did (or does) Wilder do anything to set up the KO punch like on Saturday, or does he just throw it the best opportunity he can get? And is there any way for an opponent to avoid it?

I'd like to think there's more to it than just hitting the power punch cheat mode button, but from what I've seen of it it doesn't look like he hits him with half a dozen left jabs before the big punch or anything.

He isn't particularly cute with how he sets up the shot but he always puts himself into position. His opponents know he can end it with one shot and he does as well so that plays into the narrative of the fight and probabaly means the opponenets are burning up excess energy trying to circle away from the big rigt. Could really do with adding a nasty left hook/cross to his arsenal.

dikwad · « **Reply #61193 on:** November 25, 2019, 04:59:20 pm »

I thought Wilder was very smart, waited till the old man got tired , set him up nicely and boom! He's underestimated. Smith might well get a decent crowd at Anfield if they can get Canelo but I doubt he'll come over here. Probably just as well because, on the basis of that performance, Smith would get annihilated.

Clayton Bigsby · « **Reply #61194 on:** November 25, 2019, 05:09:44 pm »

DAZN didn't pay all that money for him to go and fight in the UK. Considering he doesn't speak English I'm sure he didn't grow up with a burning desire to fight here. Saunders v Smith makes alot of sense but Anfield. hmmm

Lusty · « **Reply #61195 on:** November 25, 2019, 08:49:02 pm »

Saunders couldn't sell out a leisure centre in Scotland. He's not going to sell out Anfield.

1892tillforever · « **Reply #61196 on:** November 25, 2019, 08:52:33 pm »

Quote from: Lusty on November 25, 2019, 03:32:10 pm

James Toney would beat him without having to take the ~~cigar~~ quarter pounder with cheese out of his mouth mate

One thing we don't know about Wilder is what his chin is like. He looked like he was gone in the first fight with Ortiz before the bell went. Him versus AJ would be the true test, because you'd think Joshua would land a few.

Wilder was buzzed against Molina and dropped earlier in his career I believe. He doesn't seem to have a granite chin. Also if you look at his record, he hasn't fought many fighters you could classify as big punchers. His power is off the charts but if a banger gets him first, I reckon it is goodnight for him. He can beat anyone in the division, but no doubt that the likes of Ruiz and AJ can catch him first.

Quote from: Clayton Bigsby on November 25, 2019, 05:09:44 pm

DAZN didn't pay all that money for him to go and fight in the UK. Considering he doesn't speak English I'm sure he didn't grow up with a burning desire to fight here. Saunders v Smith makes alot of sense but Anfield. hmmm

Ginger boy is the biggest diva in boxing and has fought only in the United States and Mexico, mainly Vegas. The only way he fights at Anfield is if he happens to be a big fan of the reds

Lusty · « **Reply #61197 on:** November 25, 2019, 09:01:16 pm »

Quote from: 1892tillforever on November 25, 2019, 08:52:33 pm

Wilder was buzzed against Molina and dropped earlier in his career I believe. He doesn't seem to have a granite chin. Also if you look at his record, he hasn't fought many fighters you could classify as big punchers. His power is off the charts but if a banger gets him first, I reckon it is goodnight for him. He can beat anyone in the division, but no doubt that the likes of Ruiz and AJ can catch him first.

Flip side of that is, when AJ catches him first he'll lose his head and rush in, and get caught on the counter. And he won't be getting up this time.

1892tillforever · « **Reply #61198 on:** November 26, 2019, 07:46:14 am »

Quote from: Lusty on November 25, 2019, 09:01:16 pm

Flip side of that is, when AJ catches him first he'll lose his head and rush in, and get caught on the counter. And he won't be getting up this time.

No guarantee that Captain Windmill gets up though

The Ruiz from the first Joshua fight is also a dangerous opponent for Wilder.

Lusty · « **Reply #61199 on:** November 26, 2019, 10:29:17 am »

Quote from: 1892tillforever on November 26, 2019, 07:46:14 am

No guarantee that Captain Windmill gets up though
The Ruiz from the first Joshua fight is also a dangerous opponent for Wilder.

It would be a good watch, that's for sure.

I'd quite like to see Wilder v Whyte. That would be straight out of the pub car park but it would be a great fight while it lasted.