Author Topic: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD (Read 1737416 times)

Barefoot Doctor · « **Reply #2640 on:** March 15, 2021, 06:53:46 pm »

Been racking my brains trying to think who we might go for at CF in the summer. Loads of names mentioned in the threads here, but most don't feel like players we'd actually go for. Abraham, on the other hand, immediately feels like the right profile for us. From a stats perspective, someone his age with those numbers in the Premier League is bound to jump out at Edwards. His goal return in the Championship for Bristol and Villa was hugely impressive - 26 goals in 48 games at Bristol when he was only 18/19 is mad. And he did really well for Chelsea last year, his first in the top flight. Add to that the fact he's homegrown, with no significant injury history, and I think he'd be someone we'd be very interested in.

Whether Chelsea would sell to us is another matter entirely, obviously, but he'd excite me as a summer signing.

disgraced cake · « **Reply #2641 on:** March 15, 2021, 06:53:47 pm »

I like Abraham. Nice goal record considering he's in and out of the side. Think Chelsea would demand a good fee from a side near them in the table, and we could probably do a bit better, but I think he'd be a good option certainly

Dave McCoy · « **Reply #2642 on:** March 15, 2021, 06:57:41 pm »

Quote from: Craig 🤔 on March 15, 2021, 06:49:07 pm

What a weird reply.

I gave you my answer - there are literally tens (100+ maybe) of players between the two you mentioned and Abraham in terms of ability.

If you think Abraham is the 3rd best striker in the world (who doesn’t play for us already) then great, however you’re either his dad or his agent if that’s the case.

You just hand waived it away, comical. I never stated 3rd best striker in the world. I said in his age group who's better?

Stockholm Syndrome · « **Reply #2643 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:00:22 pm »

Abraham is someone who I feel would be a decent signing, but there could be better out there. If we have the argument of we can only get a striker under the age of 25 and only for 30 million (which which be fair is a number pulled out of no where) then yeah maybe he is the best option, but otherwise I think there can be better.

I think he is a very good striker, but I don't think he is a world class #9 like a Torres, which we may need. If he can be a halfway house between Firmino and a classic 9 though, and score 15 or so goals and assist Salah and Mane, then great.

Chris~ · « **Reply #2644 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:07:27 pm »

Don't think there's any scenario this summer Chelsea sell us Abraham unless it's way over a normal asking price.

CraigDS · « **Reply #2645 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:15:44 pm »

Quote from: Dave McCoy on March 15, 2021, 06:57:41 pm

You just hand waived it away, comical. I never stated 3rd best striker in the world. I said in his age group who's better?

This is what I replied to...

Quote from: Dave McCoy on March 15, 2021, 06:31:24 pm

I'm all ears for who would be a better option as a #9 bar Mbappe or Haaland.

So no. No you didn’t.

Coolie High · « **Reply #2646 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:21:41 pm »

Imagine Chelsea getting Haaland, and we end up with Abraham...

He’s a decent player but the type who is bound to play his career in clubs outside the top 4 if I’m being honest, maybe Spurs might get him, but we most certainly should be going for a striker with a higher ceiling.

Coolie High · « **Reply #2647 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:22:45 pm »

Quote from: Dave McCoy on March 15, 2021, 06:20:20 pm

Unless you're talking Mbappe or Haaland then there is basically nobody else in his age bracket that is better.

Rashford is better.

Hazell · « **Reply #2648 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:28:22 pm »

Quote from: Dave McCoy on March 15, 2021, 06:20:20 pm

Unless you're talking Mbappe or Haaland then there is basically nobody else in his age bracket that is better.

Mason Greenwood.

CraigDS · « **Reply #2649 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:34:06 pm »

Lautaro Martinez
Gabriel Jesus
Werner
Dembele
Isak
Greenwood
Rashford

They are a few off top of my head who are all around his age who I’d take over him.

killer-heels · « **Reply #2650 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:35:41 pm »

Quote from: Coolie High on March 15, 2021, 07:21:41 pm

Imagine Chelsea getting Haaland, and we end up with Abraham...

He’s a decent player but the type who is bound to play his career in clubs outside the top 4 if I’m being honest, maybe Spurs might get him, but we most certainly should be going for a striker with a higher ceiling.

We are not going to be able to sign a player like Haaland. We never have really and its very doubtful we do so in a pandemic and with no CL.

Coolie High · « **Reply #2651 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:35:48 pm »

Quote from: Craig 🤔 on March 15, 2021, 07:34:06 pm

Lautaro Martinez
Gabriel Jesus
Werner
Dembele
Isak
Greenwood
Rashford

They are a few off top of my head who are all around his age who I’d take over him.

Calvert Lewin maybe also, to be honest Abraham will find it tough to make the England squad in coming years.

Hazell · « **Reply #2652 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:37:53 pm »

Quote from: Craig 🤔 on March 15, 2021, 07:34:06 pm

Lautaro Martinez
Gabriel Jesus
Werner
Dembele
Isak
Greenwood
Rashford

They are a few off top of my head who are all around his age who I’d take over him.

What are their xG's like?

aw1991 · « **Reply #2653 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:38:32 pm »

I don't think Abraham is the 3rd best forward in his age group, but, he's still pretty darn good. Werner is better, but I thought at the time that it wasn't really a necessary signing because I really believe Abraham is good enough to lead the line for a top club. Consistently good for quite a while.

Coolie High · « **Reply #2654 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:45:57 pm »

Quote from: aw1991 on March 15, 2021, 07:38:32 pm

I don't think Abraham is the 3rd best forward in his age group, but, he's still pretty darn good. Werner is better, but I thought at the time that it wasn't really a necessary signing because I really believe Abraham is good enough to lead the line for a top club. Consistently good for quite a while.

It was needed because no club with aspirations to be title winner would have Abraham at his current level as a number 1 striker. He’s the type of player who will have wingers and wide forwards play ahead of him for the number 9 position for whatever reason, similar to Jesus at Man City, he’s good but not good enough.

aw1991 · « **Reply #2655 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:48:57 pm »

Quote from: Coolie High on March 15, 2021, 07:45:57 pm

It was needed because no club with aspirations to be title winner would have Abraham at his current level as a number 1 striker. He’s the type of player who will have wingers and wide forwards play ahead of him for the number 9 position for whatever reason, similar to Jesus at Man City, he’s good but not good enough.

I would disagree

think he's a potentially elite striker, even if not at the absolute top level.

Dave McCoy · « **Reply #2656 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:52:01 pm »

Quote from: Craig 🤔 on March 15, 2021, 07:15:44 pm

This is what I replied to...

So no. No you didn’t.

Splits hairs all you want. In my mind it was pretty clear what I was referring to. Pretty funny that now you did come up with a list which isn't "hundreds" long without even addressing why they would be better or obtainable.

Sarge · « **Reply #2657 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:52:41 pm »

Be interesting to see if any of the Superstar players makes a move this Summer how the price will be effected.

CraigDS · « **Reply #2658 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:58:04 pm »

Quote from: Dave McCoy on March 15, 2021, 07:52:01 pm

Splits hairs all you want. In my mind it was pretty clear what I was referring to.

Ah, so I’m meant to know what you meant but didn’t type now and reply in kind?

Quote

Pretty funny that now you did come up with a list which isn't "hundreds" long without even addressing why they would be better or obtainable.

It’s a handful off the top of my head. I’m no scout, nor am I a massive watcher of every team in every league. They are all better though.

Agent99 · « **Reply #2659 on:** March 15, 2021, 08:34:08 pm »

Quote from: Craig 🤔 on March 15, 2021, 07:34:06 pm

Lautaro Martinez
Gabriel Jesus
Werner
Dembele
Isak
Greenwood
Rashford

They are a few off top of my head who are all around his age who I’d take over him.

And Amad Diallo.

Dave McCoy · « **Reply #2660 on:** March 15, 2021, 08:49:19 pm »

Quote from: Craig 🤔 on March 15, 2021, 07:58:04 pm

Ah, so I’m meant to know what you meant but didn’t type now and reply in kind?

It’s a handful off the top of my head. I’m no scout, nor am I a massive watcher of every team in every league. They are all better though.

You were the one responding to me in the first place. But that's fine. I fail to see how those are obtainable alternatives but whatever floats your boat.

CraigDS · « **Reply #2661 on:** March 15, 2021, 09:23:02 pm »

Quote from: Dave McCoy on March 15, 2021, 08:49:19 pm

You were the one responding to me in the first place. But that's fine. I fail to see how those are obtainable alternatives but whatever floats your boat.

Yeah I was replying to what you wrote. Didn’t realise I was meant to reply to what you meant to say.

And as obtainable as Abraham.

mallin9 · « **Reply #2662 on:** March 15, 2021, 10:43:22 pm »

Just going to weigh in that I think Abraham is being underrated on here.

Signed,
The guy who still has a ton of stock in Dom Solanke. AKA ignore me

Dave McCoy · « **Reply #2663 on:** March 15, 2021, 10:55:35 pm »

Quote from: Craig 🤔 on March 15, 2021, 09:23:02 pm

Yeah I was replying to what you wrote. Didn’t realise I was meant to reply to what you meant to say.

And as obtainable as Abraham.

Hah. Yeah, when was the last time we bought someone off of ManU or ManC? Milner on a free? At least there are a couple of recent examples with Chelsea and you could see them actually offloading Abraham since long term they're going to make Havertz the 9. Martinez is maybe possible since Suning won't spend money and they are looking for someone to invest or ideally buy Inter. Isak I haven't see enough of. So you have two, that's great but still not hundreds.

Also anybody saying they would take Greenwood are drunk. In watching him play he had the purpleist of purple patches in kicking the ball but basically does nothing on the field to help his team and shouldn't be playing heavy minutes. Maybe with time he'll come good but there's nothing he's shown so far to think he'll be anything other than a flash in the pan.

amir87 · « **Reply #2664 on:** March 15, 2021, 11:40:22 pm »

Quote from: Craig 🤔 on March 15, 2021, 07:58:04 pm

It’s a handful off the top of my head. I’m no scout, nor am I a massive watcher of every team in every league. They are all better though.

I'd like a report with 100 strikers, 50 central midfielders and 75 defenders in my office by the close of play tomorrow.

JackWard33 · « **Reply #2665 on:** March 16, 2021, 09:32:17 am »

The Abraham conversation started because someone suggested he'd be available for an affordable amount as Chelsea would be selling so maybe the discussion should have stayed in that context instead of the 'whose the best young forward in the world' ...

So its two separate discussions ... though if you want to have the second discussion wide forward and 9 are two different positions fwiw

If we sign a forward this summer it'll be someone pre peak, with really good underlying numbers whose affordable so from an LFC pov that's the list that's relevant - he's on that list if he's at an affordable price, if hes at fair market price for a Chelsea player under contract then he probably isn't

CraigDS · « **Reply #2666 on:** March 16, 2021, 09:46:58 am »

Who knew we had an ITK in the Liverpool transfer committee right here on RAWK.

MD1990 · « **Reply #2667 on:** March 16, 2021, 11:31:42 am »

Abraham with Trent & Robertson crosses into the box could be superb for us.

He is a good player but i wouldnt pay anything above 35m for him

Mr Dilkington · « **Reply #2668 on:** March 16, 2021, 12:13:09 pm »

Quote from: Craig 🤔 on March 16, 2021, 09:46:58 am

Who knew we had an ITK in the Liverpool transfer committee right here on RAWK.

It's not really difficult to work out the kind of players Liverpool's recruitment team are going to be interested in. Abraham is not a question of quality, it's whether or not a) Chelsea want to sell him at all and b) if they do would they even consider selling to us. He's literally a top 5 striker in the league and easily one of the best young strikers in Europe.

On the striker question, a name I'd throw into the hat is Amine Gouiri. He profiles very similarly to Firmino in the sense that he's more about dropping deep and progressing the ball as well as doing a lot of work off the ball.

https://fbref.com/en/players/aad56ca3/Amine-Gouiri

Coolie High · « **Reply #2669 on:** March 16, 2021, 02:29:03 pm »

Quote from: Dave McCoy on March 15, 2021, 10:55:35 pm

Hah. Yeah, when was the last time we bought someone off of ManU or ManC? Milner on a free? At least there are a couple of recent examples with Chelsea and you could see them actually offloading Abraham since long term they're going to make Havertz the 9. Martinez is maybe possible since Suning won't spend money and they are looking for someone to invest or ideally buy Inter. Isak I haven't see enough of. So you have two, that's great but still not hundreds.

Also anybody saying they would take Greenwood are drunk. In watching him play he had the purpleist of purple patches in kicking the ball but basically does nothing on the field to help his team and shouldn't be playing heavy minutes. Maybe with time he'll come good but there's nothing he's shown so far to think he'll be anything other than a flash in the pan.

You might not be drunk but you’re definitely high.

Coolie High · « **Reply #2670 on:** March 16, 2021, 02:30:47 pm »

Quote from: Mr Dilkington on March 16, 2021, 12:13:09 pm

It's not really difficult to work out the kind of players Liverpool's recruitment team are going to be interested in. Abraham is not a question of quality, it's whether or not a) Chelsea want to sell him at all and b) if they do would they even consider selling to us. He's literally a top 5 striker in the league and easily one of the best young strikers in Europe.

On the striker question, a name I'd throw into the hat is Amine Gouiri. He profiles very similarly to Firmino in the sense that he's more about dropping deep and progressing the ball as well as doing a lot of work off the ball.

https://fbref.com/en/players/aad56ca3/Amine-Gouiri

Who’s literally a top 5 striker in the league?

He’s just about top 5 English striker, Kane Ings Calvert Lewin and Rashford are all better.

Mr Dilkington · « **Reply #2671 on:** March 16, 2021, 03:11:31 pm »

Quote from: Coolie High on March 16, 2021, 02:30:47 pm

Who’s literally a top 5 striker in the league?

He’s just about top 5 English striker, Kane Ings Calvert Lewin and Rashford are all better.

Not convinced Rashford is a great 9 - he barely plays there. Ings is not better than Abraham for me (and it's not close). Calvert Lewin is pretty similar to Abraham I'd say, Tammy a bit rangier and a bit quicker. IMO if Abraham was at Everton he'd be broadly matching DCL's output.

I'd have the top 5 9s in the league as: Jesus, Abraham, Werner, Kane and Cavani. Firmino still up there too.

I think Abraham is one of the few strikers who has given van Dijk real problems because his combination of size, speed and movement is so unusual.

Coolie High · « **Reply #2672 on:** March 16, 2021, 03:29:59 pm »

Quote from: Mr Dilkington on March 16, 2021, 03:11:31 pm

Not convinced Rashford is a great 9 - he barely plays there. Ings is not better than Abraham for me (and it's not close). Calvert Lewin is pretty similar to Abraham I'd say, Tammy a bit rangier and a bit quicker. IMO if Abraham was at Everton he'd be broadly matching DCL's output.

I'd have the top 5 9s in the league as: Jesus, Abraham, Werner, Kane and Cavani. Firmino still up there too.

I think Abraham is one of the few strikers who has given van Dijk real problems because his combination of size, speed and movement is so unusual.

How can it not be close in regards to Ings? Don’t get that point of view personally, Ings best season in this league is better than anything Abraham has done thus far, 22 goals is incredible and puts him in a small band of forwards to break 20+ goals in this league which doesn’t include Tammy.

Even this season he has a 1 in 2 record, also not like that’s all he has to his game, he can create also and dribble decently, too say Tammy is far better than him is crazy.

You’ve forgot about Aubameyang in the top 5 list also, until this season there wouldn’t even be an argument that he was a top 5 striker in this league, Tammy is good but he could easily not be in the top 10, you’ve got the likes of Bamford and Watkins for example who are matching his best season in this league, and I also forgot about James Vardy.

Not the standard we should be looking at for me, although I feel he would do well at a Villa type club which will probably be his next move.

Dave McCoy · « **Reply #2673 on:** March 16, 2021, 03:42:48 pm »

Are we talking about players you would want to buy that would improve our squad or just arbitrarily making lists? Auba is cooked and his contract is going to be an albatross around Arsenal's neck the next 2 years similar to Ozil. Ings had one good healthy season and his stats this year are way off last years, is his body finally breaking down? I would want to see another solid year before buying him but then he'll be 29 so I wouldn't buy him at all.

Just reinforces that if Abraham was available for "cheap" then we could do way worse and not much better especially if he's just taking Origi and Shaq's minutes.

As far as Greenwood, everything he hit went in last year. Now that's stopped and what is he offering? Shots into the stands? He's young so I wouldn't write him off but to say he's going to be anything at this stage is some arrogance.

El Lobo · « **Reply #2674 on:** March 16, 2021, 03:45:02 pm »

Yeah Greenwood had a completely unsustainable hit rate last season, which a lot of people said at the time. He's still a good prospect but this idea that he was up there with the likes of Sancho and Foden was just way off the mark.

Mr Dilkington · « **Reply #2675 on:** March 16, 2021, 03:51:35 pm »

Quote from: Coolie High on March 16, 2021, 03:29:59 pm

How can it not be close in regards to Ings? Don’t get that point of view personally, Ings best season in this league is better than anything Abraham has done thus far, 22 goals is incredible and puts him in a small band of forwards to break 20+ goals in this league which doesn’t include Tammy.

Even this season he has a 1 in 2 record, also not like that’s all he has to his game, he can create also and dribble decently, too say Tammy is far better than him is crazy.

You’ve forgot about Aubameyang in the top 5 list also, until this season there wouldn’t even be an argument that he was a top 5 striker in this league, Tammy is good but he could easily not be in the top 10, you’ve got the likes of Bamford and Watkins for example who are matching his best season in this league, and I also forgot about James Vardy.

Not the standard we should be looking at for me, although I feel he would do well at a Villa type club which will probably be his next move.

Ings was great last season yeah, but he ran hot so probably more of a one off rather than anything repeatable - particularly given his age. As Dave says, his numbers have fallen way off this season. With Tammy, whenever he plays he puts up excellent numbers - has done since he was a teenager.

Auba was amazing at his peak but he's declining pretty rapidly - would definitely take Abraham over him at this point. Watkins I like a lot but doesn't have the same level of physicality Abraham does. Bamford is having a great season but you wonder how much of that is Bielsa's system you know?

Vardy a fair shout - totally forgot about him. His underlying numbers this season are as good or better than they've ever been - just amazing longevity.

I actually think Leicester would be a good landing spot for Abraham. They should have CL money and they will have to phase Vardy out eventually.

Coolie High · « **Reply #2676 on:** March 16, 2021, 04:14:29 pm »

Quote from: Dave McCoy on March 16, 2021, 03:42:48 pm

Are we talking about players you would want to buy that would improve our squad or just arbitrarily making lists? Auba is cooked and his contract is going to be an albatross around Arsenal's neck the next 2 years similar to Ozil. Ings had one good healthy season and his stats this year are way off last years, is his body finally breaking down? I would want to see another solid year before buying him but then he'll be 29 so I wouldn't buy him at all.

Just reinforces that if Abraham was available for "cheap" then we could do way worse and not much better especially if he's just taking Origi and Shaq's minutes.

As far as Greenwood, everything he hit went in last year. Now that's stopped and what is he offering? Shots into the stands? He's young so I wouldn't write him off but to say he's going to be anything at this stage is some arrogance.

How is it arrogance? He’s 19 and scored 10 goals in the league in his first season, he’s a big talent regardless of any second season slump... To put it into perspective our attackers of the same age are in the u18-23, and the ones in our first team apart from Salah are still yet to score 10 goals in the league this season.

El Lobo · « **Reply #2677 on:** March 16, 2021, 04:16:20 pm »

Thats some absolutely phenomenal mental gymnastics

Lets compare our strikers this season, to Greenwood last season (10 goals). Rather than comparing our strikers this season to Greenwood this season (1 goal).

Dave McCoy · « **Reply #2678 on:** March 16, 2021, 04:31:37 pm »

Quote from: Coolie High on March 16, 2021, 04:14:29 pm

How is it arrogance? He’s 19 and scored 10 goals in the league in his first season, he’s a big talent regardless of any second season slump... To put it into perspective our attackers of the same age are in the u18-23, and the ones in our first team apart from Salah are still yet to score 10 goals in the league this season.

If that's the logic you want to use then there is almost no point in responding.

Coolie High · « **Reply #2679 on:** March 16, 2021, 04:34:26 pm »

Quote from: fucking appalled on March 16, 2021, 04:16:20 pm

Thats some absolutely phenomenal mental gymnastics

Lets compare our strikers this season, to Greenwood last season (10 goals). Rather than comparing our strikers this season to Greenwood this season (1 goal).

If you don’t think Greenwood is a big talent then there’s no point in even debating with you. Bare in mind I never said he’s better than our attackers, you have a weird way of interpreting words but the argument was used to show you just how precocious a talent he is..