Topic: Emre Can

[BER]

£30m for Sakho, Can off to Juve or back to Bayern. Do overrate our lads from time to time it's true.

My overriding feeling about what we do with Can is that we don't reward him with a huge contract after a pretty poor season. Not realistic though with the ever increasing mountains of TV money about the place.

If he plays a significant part in securing CL football we for get about all this and he signs that fat contract and everyone is happy...until next season and we're all reminded that Henderson and Can can't play together.   

[Johnny Foreigner]

FSG have nothing to do with you posting 3 'facts' which you are complaining about, only for all 3 of them to be factually incorrect despite being easily fact checked online.


See the bolded bit.

Not 4. Not 5. 3 years.

He was running into his final 12 months you said..

He signed a three year extention.

Unless his agent is asleep, I think he upgraded his final year of the contract, so he is now on a 4-year bumper contract and that will run until he is 32-33..

You won the game of semantics; Lallana also won when securing his pension.. he won’t be starting for LFC if we’re close to success in 2020-2021

[rickardinho1]

You're probably right, but in 2020 Lallana won't be in starting eleven; most likely not henderson either..

they would be on good contracts though..

just like carragher was..

Yes, but they will have earned it by performing well this club for several seasons.

It's a pretty sensible model really. If a player joins and plays well for 6-10 years it's only natural that they'd have a higher salary by the end of those years by the time their usefulness starts reducing... but that's when FSG would start phasing them out just as they've done with other high earners at the club (eg. Agger, Skrtel, Johnson), and are in fact currently doing with Lucas (as evidenced by the fact that he's not been offered a contract extension).

[CraigDS]

He was running into his final 12 months you said..

He signed a three year extention.

Unless his agent is asleep, I think he upgraded his final year of the contract, so he is now on a 4-year bumper contract and that will run until he is 32-33..

You won the game of semantics; Lallana also won when securing his pension.. he won’t be starting for LFC if we’re close to success in 2020-2021

Where does it say 3 year extension? It says 3 year deal. With option for a 4th. The latter would take it to 2021 (i.e. in 4 years).

Pretty simple stuff.

3 years (2020) he could be off unless we take up the option of the 4th year.

[JackWard33]

i dont think Can has done enough to earn the same wages as Henderson and Lallana. Just my opinion i think the club are totally right in not offering him those wages.

Personally. if he doesn't sign, i would like to see us sell him and bring in someone who is better at recieving the ball from the defence , turning with the ball and passing vertically rather than horizontally. Im not well versed in emerging talent but im sure there are players out there who are quicker on the turn with the energy to play in a Klopp system.

What on earth are you talking about?
He's not asking for Henderson's or Lallana's wage.
And why in all chutney fuck would be sell a player Klopp actually likes using when he's just coming into his prime and he's already here.

The thing with Can's wages is that he could absolutely go and get 100k+ a week on the open market. All these discussions about 'what he's worth' completely miss the point. You're 'worth' what the market will pay you.

[Caston]

What on earth are you talking about?
He's not asking for Henderson's or Lallana's wage.
And why in all chutney fuck would be sell a player Klopp actually likes using when he's just coming into his prime and he's already here.

The thing with Can's wages is that he could absolutely go and get 100k+ a week on the open market. All these discussions about 'what he's worth' completely miss the point. You're 'worth' what the market will pay you.

Spot on!

[rickardinho1]

He was running into his final 12 months you said..

He signed a three year extention.

Unless his agent is asleep, I think he upgraded his final year of the contract, so he is now on a 4-year bumper contract and that will run until he is 32-33..

You won the game of semantics; Lallana also won when securing his pension.. he won’t be starting for LFC if we’re close to success in 2020-2021

He might be a very useful squad player then. Or, you know, another club might notice that he's not in the first XI and try to sign him, at which stage his transfer value would still be protected.

[thelinnen]

The thing with Can's wages is that he could absolutely go and get 100k+ a week on the open market.

Only on a free.

[Chalky Boots]

Sessegnon will be too god to be a Left back same as trent will be to good to be a right back

Which - Bale aside - is how you end up with mediocre wingers and not world class fullbacks like Alaba, Lahm, Alves, Marcelo etc etc

Aurelio was good enough to be a very good CM, he played LB though because he was - when fully fit - world class there.

[JackWard33]

Only on a free.

Nope. He'd go for 100k plus right now however he moved.

Have you been paying attention to players contracts over the last 12 months?
He's a German International, he's played 100+ games at the top level, he's excelled in a top 4 team in the premier league and - critically - he's just coming into his prime

[CraigDS]

Nope. He'd go for 100k plus right now however he moved.

Have you been paying attention to players contracts over the last 12 months?
He's a German International, he's played 100+ games at the top level, he's excelled in a top 4 team in the premier league and - critically - he's just coming into his prime

Where at though? As save for the very top end players, very few teams abroad offer the rest of the squad huge wages of £100k+.

[thelinnen]

Nope. He'd go for 100k plus right now however he moved.

Have you been paying attention to players contracts over the last 12 months?
He's a German International, he's played 100+ games at the top level, he's excelled in a top 4 team in the premier league and - critically - he's just coming into his prime

He hasn't excelled at all. He's had a poor season with a promising end.

[Dim Glas]

He has been excellent the last few games, and we know that part of his problem this season was a calf injury he struggled with.

And he showed enough last season as well as to how good he is.

There is far more positive than negative about Emre Can, he's a huge player for this club, and one the manager clearly wants at the club (and that is the most important part).

If he left, there would be plenty of teams interested in a powerful, 23 year old German international, who never shirks responsibility and who will only get better.

[JackWard33]

Where at though? As save for the very top end players, very few teams abroad offer the rest of the squad huge wages of £100k+.

Are you seriously arguing there wouldn't be a market for Emre Can?

Okay ... there's a subjectivity problem here because he's our player.
If we were linked with a 23 year old German international who'd played 100+ games in a top league how much would you expect him to come to the club for this summer and how much competition would there be for him?

Christ we had all this with Sterling - endless posts from people saying 'he's not worth 200k a week... we shouldn't have offered him 100k a week etc etc etc'
It doesn't matter what we think he's worth it matters what he can go and sign for elsewhere. oh and by the way by all reports he's not asking for close to 100k a week so I don't even know what we're arguing about.

[JackWard33]

He hasn't excelled at all. He's had a poor season with a promising end.

yeah well this is the least relevant bit of this conversation isn't it. we either want him at the club or we don't. if we do its not reasonable to expect to sign him to a contract on the cheap

[CraigDS]

Are you seriously arguing there wouldn't be a market for Emre Can?

Okay ... there's a subjectivity problem here because he's our player.
If we were linked with a 23 year old German international who'd played 100+ games in a top league how much would you expect him to come to the club for this summer and how much competition would there be for him?

Christ we had all this with Sterling - endless posts from people saying 'he's not worth 200k a week... we shouldn't have offered him 100k a week etc etc etc'
It doesn't matter what we think he's worth it matters what he can go and sign for elsewhere. oh and by the way by all reports he's not asking for close to 100k a week so I don't even know what we're arguing about.

No mate, there would definitely be a market. Big fan of his.

More just saying that £100k a week players outside of the PL aren't exactly common place and that sort of wage is normally saved for barely a handful of top top players, even at the likes of Juventus.

[thisyearisouryear]

No mate, there would definitely be a market. Big fan of his.

More just saying that £100k a week players outside of the PL aren't exactly common place and that sort of wage is normally saved for barely a handful of top top players, even at the likes of Juventus.

This! Outside of PL, 100k is a pretty huge wage.

[JackWard33]

No mate, there would definitely be a market. Big fan of his.

More just saying that £100k a week players outside of the PL aren't exactly common place and that sort of wage is normally saved for barely a handful of top top players, even at the likes of Juventus.

Yeah true enough - but someone in the premier league would pay him it I'm sure.
Anyway apparently we won't pay him 65 or something. Fuck knows. Bizarre player to play hardball with given we've developed him and he's coming into his prime

[jooneyisdagod]

Talk of selling Emre... fucking hell. The sides that are after a player are usually a decent barometer of what the player's ability is. Here we have a German international that is 23 and coming into his prime wanted by Juventus and Bayern Munich and we're trying to convince ourselves that he's not actually that good even though he's been hampered by a calf issue by all accounts. Sheer madness.

[Jookie]

The thing with Can's wages is that he could absolutely go and get 100k+ a week on the open market. All these discussions about 'what he's worth' completely miss the point. You're 'worth' what the market will pay you.

Completely agree with this.

People were saying the same thing's about Sterling and him not being worth £100k p/w in his final season at Liverpool. Well he went off and signed a contract reportedly worth double that. You can argue if he's worth it or not but his agent will know Can's rough market value. He'll know what similar players at other clubs earn. He may even know what other clubs will be willing to pay Can if he moved on.

Emre Can won't be getting a £200k p/w wage off any team but I'm sure he'd get very close to £100k p/w (and who knows if that's what's he's asking for anyway).

[phil236849]

Only flicked at a few posts and can seem some fairly binary thinking.  Good / bad player, good / bad season, pay him / not worth it.  The reality is that commitments of this nature - 100k a week for four years = a 20m decision - are big commercial decisions for clubs.  As we are not a sugar daddy bankrolled club we have to look at what we can afford on our wage bill and which are our priorities.  The decision has to be taken in the round.  I don't know who else we have coming up to a contract extension but we have recently invested big in coutinho, and did lallana extend?  The club will have its idea as to what it can afford to pay Emre, and an idea as to the best way to negotiate how it gets there, and its contingency plan if it can't pull off the deal.  It is not as simple as a small journo soundbite would suggest, and it is not as though Emre is at that key individual level of being the best player in the club.  If he was Ste Gerrard I would understand the desperation to pay him whatever, but everyone knows he is not that important.  He is good, but it is unsurprising that it might not be the easiest negotiation.

[Jookie]

Anyway apparently we won't pay him 65 or something. Fuck knows. Bizarre player to play hardball with given we've developed him and he's coming into his prime

Do you reckon wages are the sticking point? Or do you think his role/playing time is playing a part?

Like you said, it seems strange for wages alone to be the sticking point.

Talk of selling Emre... fucking hell. The sides that are after a player are usually a decent barometer of what the player's ability is. Here we have a German international that is 23 and coming into his prime wanted by Juventus and Bayern Munich and we're trying to convince ourselves that he's not actually that good even though he's been hampered by a calf issue by all accounts. Sheer madness.

Agree with this too. Whilst stylistically he may not be the perfect fit for our system, there's little doubt he's a young player of huge talent. One that I wouldn't let go. As I said above, some people's thoughts are similar to what I read when Sterling was leaving the club -  not worth the wages, won't be missed, etc.. We should have pushed the boat out to keep Sterling. I think we should do the same for Can (if wages are the only sticking point).

[JackWard33]

Talk of selling Emre... fucking hell. The sides that are after a player are usually a decent barometer of what the player's ability is. Here we have a German international that is 23 and coming into his prime wanted by Juventus and Bayern Munich and we're trying to convince ourselves that he's not actually that good even though he's been hampered by a calf issue by all accounts. Sheer madness.

Yup.
But then this is the forum that had Jordan Ibe as better than Raheem Sterling so it shouldn't be a shock
Our players are either Zidane or Konchesky in our fans eyes - its bonkers. Seems like with some players our fans focus exclusively on their limitations (Can, Henderson, Firmino) with others they focus only on their strengths (Lucas, Wijnaldam, Origi). 
I'm not even a huge Can fan - he obviously has limitations (his ability to pass in a way that affects the attacking game, his quickness) but so does most every player ... and there's also no denying his abilities and his overall level plus the difficulty of getting a very good midfielder whose prime is ahead of them to replace him when we already need at least one more CM.

[JackWard33]

Only flicked at a few posts and can seem some fairly binary thinking.  Good / bad player, good / bad season, pay him / not worth it.  The reality is that commitments of this nature - 100k a week for four years = a 20m decision - are big commercial decisions for clubs.  As we are not a sugar daddy bankrolled club we have to look at what we can afford on our wage bill and which are our priorities.  The decision has to be taken in the round.  I don't know who else we have coming up to a contract extension but we have recently invested big in coutinho, and did lallana extend?  The club will have its idea as to what it can afford to pay Emre, and an idea as to the best way to negotiate how it gets there, and its contingency plan if it can't pull off the deal.  It is not as simple as a small journo soundbite would suggest, and it is not as though Emre is at that key individual level of being the best player in the club.  If he was Ste Gerrard I would understand the desperation to pay him whatever, but everyone knows he is not that important.  He is good, but it is unsurprising that it might not be the easiest negotiation.

No that's not correct. It's not a 20 million pound decision because you 'own' the asset. you can cash in on that choice at any time - not least because he's 23
(its also not a 20 million pound decision because we're not offering him and he's not asking for 100k a week so....)

[phil236849]

No that's not correct. It's not a 20 million pound decision because you 'own' the asset. you can cash in on that choice at any time - not least because he's 23
(its also not a 20 million pound decision because we're not offering him and he's not asking for 100k a week so....)

the point is it is a big commercial decision.  Do you disagree?

[Andy]

Do you reckon wages are the sticking point? Or do you think his role/playing time is playing a part?

The Guardian/Andy Hunter reckon it is over his playing position:

Liverpool intend to keep Emre Can this summer, even as the Germany midfielder enters the final 12 months of his contract at Anfield.

Can has yet to commit to a long-term deal with Liverpool, despite several months of negotiations, and could leave on a free transfer when his contract expires in 2018. Liverpool, however, have no plans to sell the 23-year-old in the absence of a contract extension, believing his worth to Jürgen Klopp’s team next season is greater than the cost of buying a replacement.

Can is in a similar position to Everton’s Ross Barkley, who also has 14 months remaining on his contract. In contrast to Ronald Koeman, who has told Barkley to make a decision by the end of the season or be sold, Liverpool’s manager is willing to bide his time in the hope of finding a resolution with Can.

The former Bayern Munich academy player, who signed a four-year deal at Liverpool when he joined from Bayer Leverkusen for £9.75m in 2014, has claimed his role in Klopp’s team is behind the contract delay and not financial demands of £100,000 a week.

Can prefers a deeper midfield role to the more advanced position that, with its increased number of sprints, he blamed on the persistent calf problem that plagued him throughout the first half of this season. He has been in commanding form in recent weeks as Liverpool attempt to secure qualification for next season’s Champions League.

The prospect of Champions League football plus the nature of Can’s contract problem offers Klopp hope the midfielder will eventually follow the example of Philippe Coutinho and Adam Lallana in signing a new deal. Liverpool’s resolve to keep Can may yet be tested by a substantial offer in the close season.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/19/liverpool-emre-can-four-year-deal


I know they haven't played that well together in the past, but logically Henderson and Can could fit in midfield. Henderson's best form for us (in my opinion) was playing on the right of a midfield three - Can could play at the base of the three, and everyone's a winner?

[JackWard33]

the point is it is a big commercial decision.  Do you disagree?

yes.
there is no decision - you don't let players coming into their prime run down their contracts unless you don't want them at the club
the club has to protect the value of the asset. It's absolute insanity if we let it get into the last year.

[phil236849]

that's what can said, but it's all fairly self serving.  many footballers are bright enough to know not to say I want x and they are only offering y.  Some can remember cashley of course.

[JackWard33]

The Guardian/Andy Hunter reckon it is over his playing position:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/19/liverpool-emre-can-four-year-deal


I know they haven't played that well together in the past, but logically Henderson and Can could fit in midfield. Henderson's best form for us (in my opinion) was playing on the right of a midfield three - Can could play at the base of the three, and everyone's a winner?

Complete chutney. Last quote I saw from Can on his position was that he wanted to play further forward.
Not a single quote in this article.

Here's some quotes from the player
http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/11/emre-can-relishing-new-midfield-role-happy-future-liverpool/

Any way its bollocks... contract discussions are about money

[phil236849]

yes.
there is no decision - you don't let players coming into their prime run down their contracts unless you don't want them at the club
the club has to protect the value of the asset. It's absolute insanity if we let it get into the last year.

I doubt the club does have a strategy of not protecting the value of the asset.  As an earlier poster suggested, this is all part of a negotiating strategy.

[JackWard33]

I doubt the club does have a strategy of not protecting the value of the asset.  As an earlier poster suggested, this is all part of a negotiating strategy.

I'd be more reassured if we didn't have form

[Andy]

Complete chutney. Last quote I saw from Can on his position was that he wanted to play further forward.
Not a single quote in this article.

Here's some quotes from the player
http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/11/emre-can-relishing-new-midfield-role-happy-future-liverpool/

Any way its bollocks... contract discussions are about money

That's interesting - do you think Hunter's article is based on the club's view, or just making it up?

Either way, I'd pay him the 100k a week to keep him.

[Djozer]

That's interesting - do you think Hunter's article is based on the club's view, or just making it up?

Either way, I'd pay him the 100k a week to keep him.

Me too. We'd be fucking stupid to let him go, he has real potential and can cover a number of positions. When he's not in chronic pain he tends to be one of our best players too.

I realise that 100k a week is a lot of money to most of us on here, but in the upper echelons of the Premier League it's starting to become fairly standard. I suppose none of us really know what's going on behind the scenes but I hope we're doing all we can to get him to stay, because I reckon he's gonna be one hell of a player pretty soon, if he isn't already.

[JackWard33]

That's interesting - do you think Hunter's article is based on the club's view, or just making it up?

Either way, I'd pay him the 100k a week to keep him.

I'd go with just making it up as it bares no relation to anything else anyone's said or anything we've seen on the pitch. Seriously the bit about sprints is inane.
No clue what the arguments actually are but I'd guess - as has been rumored - we want to pay him closer to a developing squad player and he wants to be paid as a first teamer. But ulitmately it's all just reasons to try and get a lower or higher number

[Johnny Foreigner]

3 years (2020) he could be off unless we take up the option of the 4th year.

He could be off, but he could also be sitting  on his backside collecting the wages depending on the option..

But I assume you have the details of that; or are you just speculating and ending up with a conclusion that backs up your argument..

[Wool]

Our fans spend all season moaning about our lack of squad depth and are then happy for us to (potentially) lose one of our promising midfielders because of a contract dispute. You couldn't make it up.

[Bob Sacamano]

I would not lose any sleep if Can gets sold. He is quite replaceable if indeed he wants 100/week.

[Dim Glas]

I would not lose any sleep if Can gets sold. He is quite replaceable if indeed he wants 100/week.

The team needs to keep hold of it's better players and add quality to the squad. It's a little bit remiss to think that one of our best midfielders is easily replacable.

[AshLFC]

No more than a squad player for me. Whilst he's had some good games, I don't think he's pulled up trees. Keeping hold of him could prove to be vital if we get CL next season though. 

As for the wages, I think its the going rate nowadays at big clubs like ours. If Lingard can get £100 grand a week, then most players are going to be touching this amount at some stage.

[Bob Sacamano]

The team needs to keep hold of it's better players and add quality to the squad. It's a little bit remiss to think that one of our best midfielders is easily replacable.

In general I agree with you. We need to be adding quality and retaining our existing quality. But I don't rate Can and at 100/week the opportunity cost is considerable. You can get a helluva player for that kind of wage. And while Can has potential, I think his flaws (decision making, passing ability) are difficult to overcome as a midfield player. Could he improve that area of his game? Yes, but I think it's unlikely and he's not worth waiting around for if he wants 100/week.