Topic: The Murder of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.

[ShakaHislop]

Who is there to win around? There's no grey areas here.

Nothing's going to meaningfully change until people who are sympathetic to the issues of police brutality and racism in general are back in power, but I fear the current protests as they are is making it more likely that Trump will be re-elected. There needs to be something specific the protestors want Trump, or other authority figures to do and that needs to be communicated loudly and clearly. As it is, all I'm hearing is nebulous calls to "end racism" or "end police brutality" which are unfocused, and allow the looting to become the main story, which allows Trump to seize an opportunity of portraying himself as Mr Law & Order, particularly in out-of-control Democratic cities/states.

[ShakaHislop]

and the other three who as far as I know haven’t been fired or suspended (but doubt they’ve been back in work), never mind arrested

If that was/is the aim of the current protests, fine but if that is the case, it's not being communicated clearly enough.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

If that was/is the aim of the current protests, fine but if that is the case, it's not being communicated clearly enough.

it was about George floyd, the original protests, but now it’s totally out of control with people using it for their own ends (the Samantha shader case being a good example) whilst people still protesting for floyd/against police brutality

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Nothing's going to meaningfully change until people who are sympathetic to the issues of police brutality and racism in general are back in power, but I fear the current protests as they are is making it more likely that Trump will be re-elected. There needs to be something specific the protestors want Trump, or other authority figures to do and that needs to be communicated loudly and clearly. As it is, all I'm hearing is nebulous calls to "end racism" or "end police brutality" which are unfocused, and allow the looting to become the main story, which allows Trump to seize an opportunity of portraying himself as Mr Law & Order, particularly in out-of-control Democratic cities/states.

It's not the public's job to solve the problem that the government caused, it's not the public's job to create solutions to something that is very easy to fix. I am not talking about racism. I am talking about taking ownership and charging officers who have blatantly committed murderers. Every single one of them for the most part has gotten away with it, due to the police code of [we protect our own] and them claiming their [police officers] lives were threatened so they had to react.

Stop protecting the racist cops, charge them accordingly and for a start you won't see such a reaction. Don't blatantly disregard that the murderer had his knee on the man's neck for ten minutes on the report, and then use his underlying condition as a reason for his death.

[Lone Star Red]

https://twitter.com/AntonioFrench/status/1266960975124717568

Heartbreaking

No words. Heartbreaking indeed.

[Scottymuser]

How do they envisage police brutality being ended? What quantifiable action do they want to be taken? It was clear in the original Minneapolis protests, but it's not with the ones currently going on.

When you have no clear, measurable end goal, I just don't think it's worth the hassle of trying to reason with the looters. Go home, and hope the thinner crowds make this thing fizzle out. Then regroup and protest again at a later time.

You realise there were 4 days between him being killed, and him being arrested, and the only reason he was arrested as the video had leaked and they couldn't keep covering it up?  And the fact that even when has been arrested, he has been given the lightest possible charges they could to protect him (Third Degree Murder is basically an only slight more strict manslaughter charge).  And the fact there were 3 other cops there, any one of which could (should) have acted to stop the murder, and by not doing so made themselves accessory, yet none of them have been disciplined, yet alone arrested and charged.

And this was not in any way, shape or form an isolated incident.  A single arrest, coupled with weak-ass charges, doesn't undo decades of police brutality - the end goal is to make their voices heard NOW, that they are sick of this.  And the police's largely over the top response to the protests simply shows their point.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

You realise there were 4 days between him being killed, and him being arrested, and the only reason he was arrested as the video had leaked and they couldn't keep covering it up?  And the fact that even when has been arrested, he has been given the lightest possible charges they could to protect him (Third Degree Murder is basically an only slight more strict manslaughter charge).  And the fact there were 3 other cops there, any one of which could (should) have acted to stop the murder, and by not doing so made themselves accessory, yet none of them have been disciplined, yet alone arrested and charged.

And this was not in any way, shape or form an isolated incident.  A single arrest, coupled with weak-ass charges, doesn't undo decades of police brutality - the end goal is to make their voices heard NOW, that they are sick of this.  And the police's largely over the top response to the protests simply shows their point.

Exactly and all of this can be changed immediately by police nationwide. Racism is a society issue, but the police are protecting people who are blatantly committing crimes. Suspending someone or firing someone is not punishment for taking someones life.

Oh and also start using cops in the neighborhoods they can relate to. Don't put cops who have no experience with poor neighborhoods or can't relate to people in such environments, and sending out thick headed idiots who don't know how to interact as human beings.

[jambutty]

something that is very easy to fix.

You see something easy to fix here?

Nobel Prize, mate.

[ShakaHislop]

You realise there were 4 days between him being killed, and him being arrested, and the only reason he was arrested as the video had leaked and they couldn't keep covering it up?  And the fact that even when has been arrested, he has been given the lightest possible charges they could to protect him (Third Degree Murder is basically an only slight more strict manslaughter charge).  And the fact there were 3 other cops there, any one of which could (should) have acted to stop the murder, and by not doing so made themselves accessory, yet none of them have been disciplined, yet alone arrested and charged.

And this was not in any way, shape or form an isolated incident.  A single arrest, coupled with weak-ass charges, doesn't undo decades of police brutality - the end goal is to make their voices heard NOW, that they are sick of this.  And the police's largely over the top response to the protests simply shows their point.

If they are sick of it, what practical changes/actions do they want to see happen?

Would they go home once the other 3 officers in the George Lloyd case are arrested and charged? If not, why not? Do they want new laws that mandate procedures for how officers involved in alleged incidents of brutality are dealt with? I wouldn't have a problem with that in general, but it's almost certainly not going to happen under Trump so do they just protest until November at least?

[deFacto please, you bastards]

You see something easy to fix here?

Nobel Prize, mate.

Compared to implementing laws,bills,changing systematic racism, yes, absolutely, easier for Police Departments to stop protecting officers when they commit crimes. hand out appropriate punishment ie charging them with murder. That is far easier to do then undo 500 years of systematic racism.

But great job missing the bloody point. Nobel prize mate and all that

[deFacto please, you bastards]

If they are sick of it, what practical changes/actions do they want to see happen?

Would they go home once the other 3 officers in the George Lloyd case are arrested and charged? If not, why not? Do they want new laws that mandate procedures for how officers involved in alleged incidents of brutality are dealt with? I wouldn't have a problem with that in general, but it's almost certainly not going to happen under Trump so do they just protest until November at least?

You don't need NEW LAWS TO DEAL WITH BLACK PEOPLE!!! There are already existing laws that are applicable to every other citizen except when it comes to police officers when they kill black men unjustly. Those laws exist. Start using said laws.

Secondly, the interactions between Police and black men was an issue before Trump. This can be resolved without Trump doing anything, if people were willing to actually listen to their communities and start taking ownership and responsibility. It would be extremely helpful for the president to influence a change in the right direction but he alone can't change this.

Ultimately it falls on the police department, but when you have officers getting away with their behavior over and over and over again, and their Sherrif Office or PD coming up with excuses and giving them leaves of absences rather than murder charges, fuck all will change.

[oxenstierna]

Compared to implementing laws,bills,changing systematic racism, yes, absolutely, easier for Police Departments to stop protecting officers when they commit crimes. hand out appropriate punishment ie charging them with murder. That is far easier to do then undo 500 years of systematic racism.

But great job missing the bloody point. Nobel prize mate and all that

Obama got one bombing 7+ countries, its easy

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Obama got one bombing 7+ countries, its easy

Sure thats exactly the same thing here.

[oxenstierna]

Sure thats exactly the same thing here.

Sorry, wasn't aimed at you mate, I agreed with your post. Was aimed at the Nobel Prize comment

[Lush is the best medicine...]

And the fact that even when has been arrested, he has been given the lightest possible charges they could to protect him (Third Degree Murder is basically an only slight more strict manslaughter charge).

One thing on this, the charge can be upgraded to second degree before it gets to court due to more facts etc coming up (ie Intentional murder that isn’t premeditated, first degree is pre meditated which is more difficult to prove in court even if there is something with their past) so it’s far more important to get the strongest charge that’s likely to stick and get a conviction (3rd degree is 25 years max, 2nd degree is 40 and 1st is life) than go for the strongest one and see him walk away because a jury can’t come to a verdict

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Sorry, wasn't aimed at you mate, I agreed with your post. Was aimed at the Nobel Prize comment

No worries, wasn't sure about your intentions having read it originally

[deFacto please, you bastards]

One thing on this, the charge can be upgraded to second degree before it gets to court due to more facts etc coming up (ie Intentional murder that isn’t premeditated, first degree is pre meditated which is more difficult to prove in court even if there is something with their past) so it’s far more important to get the strongest charge that’s likely to stick and get a conviction (3rd degree is 25 years max, 2nd degree is 40 and 1st is life) than go for the strongest one and see him walk away because a jury can’t come to a verdict

This. As much as people are upset with the murders of innocent black men, they are just as upset with the murderers facing NO consequences for their actions, consistently, year in and year out.

[ShakaHislop]

You don't need NEW LAWS TO DEAL WITH BLACK PEOPLE!!! There are already existing laws that are applicable to every other citizen except when it comes to police officers when they kill black men unjustly. Those laws exist. Start using said laws.

Secondly, the interactions between Police and black men was an issue before Trump. This can be resolved without Trump doing anything, if people were willing to actually listen to their communities and start taking ownership and responsibility. It would be extremely helpful for the president to influence a change in the right direction but he alone can't change this.

Ultimately it falls on the police department, but when you have officers getting away with their behavior over and over and over again, and their Sherrif Office or PD coming up with excuses and giving them leaves of absences rather than murder charges, fuck all will change.

What actions can be taken in the immediate/short term by the likes of police departments to convince these protestors to stand down?
I don't object to what you said above, but PDs can only prove they are sticking to the promise to do the above over the long-term if that makes sense? I don't know what they can do right now to encourage people to come off the streets.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

What actions can be taken in the immediate/short term by the likes of police departments to convince these protestors to stand down?
I don't object to what you said above, but PDs can only prove they are sticking to the promise to do the above over the long-term if that makes sense? I don't know what they can do right now to encourage people to come off the streets.

How about having a conversation like the police officer from Michigan did on the last page and walk with the people who are protesting. There are plenty of officers in New Jersey, who are walking side by side with protesters with no violence.

Engage the people, listen to what they have to say and maybe even charge the other 3 officers who did fuck all to help a man who was pleading for his dead mother while he was dying.

[Scottymuser]

One thing on this, the charge can be upgraded to second degree before it gets to court due to more facts etc coming up (ie Intentional murder that isn’t premeditated, first degree is pre meditated which is more difficult to prove in court even if there is something with their past) so it’s far more important to get the strongest charge that’s likely to stick and get a conviction (3rd degree is 25 years max, 2nd degree is 40 and 1st is life) than go for the strongest one and see him walk away because a jury can’t come to a verdict

Could they not have charged him with 2nd degree, and backed it down to 3rd if they truly believe that the evidence isn't enough to convict him (rather then doing it because he is a cop) as from where I am sitting the video footage that has come out, coupled with some basic human anatomy is a good amount of evidence already.  As they do all the time when they arrest and charge people for one thing, only to back it down as they don't think the evidence is 100% tight enough to convict?

If that's not the case, and that could open them up for the possibility of him not getting justice, then that's understandable - but if they could have done the latter, and they know the public opinion on the matter, why not at least try instead of protecting another cop.

[Scottymuser]

How about having a conversation like the police officer from Michigan did on the last page and walk with the people who are protesting. There are plenty of officers in New Jersey, who are walking side by side with protesters with no violence.

Engage the people, listen to what they have to say and maybe even charge the other 3 officers who did fuck all to help a man who was pleading for his dead mother while he was dying.

Agreed - although one thing to note is the guy who did was from the county sheriff's office, and not the city's Police Dept.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Agreed - although one thing to note is the guy who did was from the county sheriff's office, and not the city's Police Dept.

Fair enough, in any case, it helps a lot more when you have someone willing to engage in a conversation on the scene, rather than engage with batons,plastic bullets,tear gas,etc..

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/31/us/nypd-officers-kneel-with-protesters-trnd/index.html

[Caligula?]

Sadly when I look through the images and videos of this, I have a feeling that it's going to get politicized to death until the election. Images and video (and fuck me, there are a lot) of police brutality - "This is Trump's America" etc, etc. Images and videos of looters destroying businesses - "This is what you get when you vote left" etc, etc.

[kavah]

Compared to implementing laws,bills,changing systematic racism, yes, absolutely, easier for Police Departments to stop protecting officers when they commit crimes. hand out appropriate punishment ie charging them with murder. That is far easier to do then undo 500 years of systematic racism...

Good point.

Trevor Noah also:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4amCfVbA_c

[Scottymuser]

Fair enough, in any case, it helps a lot more when you have someone willing to engage in a conversation on the scene, rather than engage with batons,plastic bullets,tear gas,etc..

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/31/us/nypd-officers-kneel-with-protesters-trnd/index.html

Yep - what they did was great, and that kind of thing helps enormously to calm things down and show that not all cops are dicks. 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

And clearly people taking advantage of the situation and acting chaotically for the sake of it. For this kid, he picked the wrong person's car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qalMQSsalsA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-DZ26mQYMc

[Buggy Eyes Alfredo]

Powerful silent protest at the "Serve and Protect" sculpture in Salt Lake City.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Cuomo's speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ1eVBDIf8k

[Macphisto80]

They're looting the fuck out of Long Beach. It's no longer a protest there. Fuckin' eejits have just handed Trump the biggest propaganda card he could wish for.

[hulksagoodboy]

Yep, I think the gap in deciding to arrest to him has played a massive part in this.

Shouldn't just be one cop getting arrested though, there were three other cops acting as bystanders watching it all go down.

They're just as accountable, protect and serve ya?

Can't for the life of me grasp how this is such a hard concept for people to recognize.

Way too often, way too out in the open, way too publicized and nothing ever gets done about any of it.

[ShakaHislop]

Trump taken to underground bunker during White House protests: reports

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/500394-trump-taken-to-underground-bunker-during-white-house-protests-reports

Whatever happened to this brave man?

Trump Says He Would Have Rushed in Unarmed to Stop School Shooting

WASHINGTON — President Trump asserted Monday that he would have rushed in to save the students and teachers of Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School from a gunman with an assault weapon, even if he was unarmed at the time of the massacre.

Speaking to a meeting of the country’s governors at the White House, Mr. Trump conceded that “you don’t know until you test it.” But he said he believed he would have exhibited bravery “even if I didn’t have a weapon, and I think most of the people in this room would have done that, too.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/26/us/politics/trump-school-shooter-florida.html

[Macphisto80]

An underground bunker?

He's literally inside and surrounded with one of the most heavily guarded buildings on the planet, and he's shitting his togs. C*nt.

[BarryCrocker]

An underground bunker?

He's literally inside and surrounded with one of the most heavily guarded buildings on the planet, and he's shitting his togs. C*nt.

Maybe he's a Gerard Butler fan.

[OOS]

Really hope there isn't going to he a huge spike in Covid due to mass gatherings.

[BarryCrocker]

Really hope there isn't going to he a huge spike in Covid due to mass gatherings.

I mentioned that the other day. Trump will be able to blame the next spike on the leftist rioters.

It will be a shame due to the increase in fatalities but also for the fact that it will push back the reopening of the US. Might even give Trump an opportunity for martial law.

[oxenstierna]

300 years of racism and oppression. Thinking about it, the American revolution, that they are so proud about, was caused by far less

[The North Bank]

Maybe we need a United nations police force to protect the minority blacks from oppression in the USA.

I would expect the world's greatest super power, China, to at least threaten a military intervention to stop the bloodshed. Maybe even maintain a presence in the USA until some sort of democracy gets set up there, America needs a period of enlightenment to join the civilised world, we cant sit back and watch the slaughter and do nothing.
If I was Boris Id be shoulder to shoulder with China on this one in the battle of good versus evil. They probably got WMDs there, imagine nuclear weapons falling into the hands of these madmen. If they can kill their own people with total impunity, I for one would be worried if they get their hands on anything bigger than a handgun.
We can send our companies to rebuild the USA afterwards, they got plenty of natural resources there too, could be just what we need.

Do something, president Xi, before its too late.


Funny old world.

[Brissyred]

This isn't just racism and police brutality. This is a powder keg of an incredible number of factors coming together.

1) You've got entrenched racism and the strain of white superiority that runs through American culture, that was after all their unifying theme around which they built their nation though over time they have increased their blanket in order to accomodate more and more people into their own group (though it has never extended beyond people of European extraction)

2) You've got massive cultural problems in the African-American community, glorification of violence, shirking of education and what not and they seem to be stuck in the loop of no investment in their communities means the social ladder isn't very robust. Recent African expats like Nigerian-Americans have all reach the middle-class level of American society and they don't appear to have regular run-ins with the cops.

3) The modern left seems to have gone too far in the culture wars with a small but alarmingly loud movement of destroying things that are central to the homo sapien experience like the family unit, gender and for many people even religion. Religion and Science can co-exist, there is a place for both and Religion still has a place in modern society but the modern left wants to take a hammer blow to all of these things and lead us down a reckless path into the unknown based on some hypotheticals they cannot prove

4) The bogeyman in the room that no one wants to talk about but the left views this as dicohotomy between Black and White. Walk down a Latino/Black neighbourhood and you'll see unprecedented violence or the Black on Asian (Global definition not the British so Chinese etc) violence which is quietly swept under the table because Asians aren't a politically important group yet has led to a complete fragementation of American society with each sub-group pulling for their own. In essence USA is becoming a country of multiple countries rather than unifying people via the American 'culture'. They could turn this around in say 50-100 years as more people become second generation but in that time frame it appears anything can happen

5) The American economic model whilst pushing human innovation to the limit isn't really conductive to building a healthy society it would seem

The list could go on and on and on but long story short it could be the beginning of the end for America and if America goes then no matter how snobby Europeans get the sun will be setting on Western civilization

Strange first post on a football forum.....

[santandharma]

Is anyone seeing that white YouTuber going and looting and then saying that he was  'protesting'? What a time to be alive,  scummy people

[Ziltoid]

Posted this in the douche thread but if you have Netflix watch 13th (about the 13th amendment). It gives a condensed history lesson of how and why it has come to this. I'd like to see an limited series on the subject going into far more depth.