Topic: Tensions between India and Pakistan over Kashmir

[BobPaisley3]

Sounds like trouble brewing in the sub continent, Pakistan this morning retaliating against India’s bombing of a Military camp yesterday. Both sides saying they don’t want to go on a path to war but worrying developments nonetheless.

[CheshireDave]

Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian Air Force jets in a major escalation of the Kashmir conflict.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47383634

[ScouserAtHeart]

I don't see this ending soon. The mood on the ground here is people are pissed and want to see retaliation. It'll take massive political will to step back. And with elections in 2 months...I don't see that happening unfortunately

[redmark]

India’s bombing of a Military camp yesterday

For clarity (and this has been misspoken on a couple of reports), India's attack yesterday was on a non-military militant camp (alleged militant camp, presumably).

[drmick]

Can somebody explain the importance of Kashmir? Is it strategic like the Ukraine? Is it economical like Iraq? Is it cultural like Northern Ireland or Sri Lanka?

[Nobby Reserve]

For clarity (and this has been misspoken on a couple of reports), India's attack yesterday was on a non-military militant camp (alleged militant camp, presumably).

In Pakistan, it's important to note.

There's a very valid point that with Pakistan turning a blind eye to the militants inside their border, India has a right to be pissed.

But this Indian government is a bunch of extremist, authoritarian shitbags.

And Pakistan is ruled by a de facto military dictatorship with sympathies toward Islamist extremism.

What a toxic mix in the region.

From a selfish perspective, I'm just glad that neither are closely aligned to Cold War superpowers, so that any conflict is unlikely to escalate globally.

[redmark]

In Pakistan, it's important to note.

Agreed on all points.

[Nobby Reserve]

Can somebody explain the importance of Kashmir? Is it strategic like the Ukraine? Is it economical like Iraq? Is it cultural like Northern Ireland or Sri Lanka?

Nutshell guide:

In the lead-up to Partition, the 'Prince States' were each allowed to choose India, Pakistan or remain independent. They all chose either India or Pakistan, except the then ruler of Jammu & Kashmir, Maharaja Hari Singh. He was wooed by Pakistan and a substantial majority of the J&K population was Muslim, but his sympathies were with Hinduism, and he dithered. There was also a strong secular nationalist independence movement. When Pakistan lost patience and threatened to take control of J&K militarily, Hari Singh feared being completely deposed and turned to India. Nehru promised to hold a referendum of the J&K people once everything had settled down to determine what they wanted to do. Hari Singh chose to go with India.

Pakistan then invaded. India repelled them to a point, but Pakistan retained a foothold, and has done ever since. The horrific slaughter that followed Partition soured relations between India and Pakistan further, and entrenched positions over J&K. Nehru reneged on his promise to hold a Referendum.

Up until the 80's, the opposition to India within Kashmir continued to be largely secular and, although Pakistan supplied guns to small guerrilla groups, the main opposition to India, under Sheik Abdullah, sought political compromise along the lines of greater autonomy for J&K.

The situation turned for the worse in the 80's when Pakistan, flush with cash, weapons and militants it was brainwashing for the Saudi/American-engineered proxy war with the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, began sending Islamist groups into Kashmir, recruiting Kashmiri men into Jihadi units, and flooding the valley with guns. Since then, and swollen at various times by Jihadi fighters searching for their next attempt to get their 72 virgins, the opposition to India has become an Islamist fight. Pakistan has subsequently sat in the background, stirring the shitpot from time to time.

India has responded by inflicting massive human rights abuses on the Kashmiri people. This has got far worse since the Modi extremists got elected in India. Their strand of authoritarianism, chauvinistic Hindu-extremism, economic neoliberalism and nationalism has led to a surge in military spending and a ramping of the rhetoric over J&K, backed up by a massive military presence in the region (estimates put it as high as 700,000 including the police - who, given their training, weapons and modus operandi are de facto military). This for a population of 5.5m people.

[jooneyisdagod]

Pakistan is now in custody of an Indian pilot who was presumably flying one of the planes that went down. They have released videos of him announcing his name and details. This is now looking very embarrassing for the comically incompetent dick swinger Modi and his rabid warmongering media pack that was thumping its collective chest yesterday. Pakistan is, without doubt, a sponsor of terror and strong action is needed but India's "secret surgical strikes" that somehow get leaked to the media who turnaround and praise Modi's strength and how his party is India's only hope against terror has truly come back to bite India on its backside. They have revealed the complete lack of planning from the Government here. Things are not looking good from what I can tell.

[jooneyisdagod]

Nutshell guide:

That's excellent. My understanding is that the referendum was to happen if Pakistan fully retreated. They did not and no referendum has happened as a result. The troop withdrawal and subsequent referendum is also to my understanding the crux of an often stated UN resolution though it has been many years since I read it.

[Indomitable_Carp]

I went to Srinagar a few years back. Lovely people in Kashmir, and a very interesting place (unlike anywhere I've ever been) nestled amongst the mountains. 26 hour bus-ride to get there though, pretty much stuck in one long endless snaking line of trucks the whole way through the mountain passes.

It was by far the most heavily militarised place I have ever stepped foot in. Regular Indian Army, armed police and paramilitary patrols through the streets complete with APC's and regular military checkpoints. I was staying with a lovely and very welcoming family, who talked to me a lot about the situation there. As far as they were concerned they just wanted Kashmir to be independent, and to be left in peace and quiet. Very much a case of Kashmiri and proud and India and Pakistan can fuck off and stop using them as a pawn. Others wanted to join with Pakistan (there was one old bloke stood by the side of the road on the way in who seemed like he spent his days waving a Pakistani flag at passing traffic). As a side note, no one I spoke to wanted to be a part of India, but they have attached the administration of Kashmir to the Indian province of Jammu to even out the demographics more in favour of Indian Hindus.

I was told to avoid the centre of town on Friday after prayers because it saw weekly clashes between young locals and Indian security.

Unfortunately just a few months after I left everything kicked off big time after a popular Kashmiri militant was killed, with mass protests and clashes with security, curfews and protestors being killed and wounded.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_Kashmir_unrest

[vagabond]

Pakistan has closed its airspace, my father is stuck in the country. Who does an atheist pray to for war not to break out?

[redmark]

Pakistan has closed its airspace, my father is stuck in the country. Who does an atheist pray to for war not to break out?

Jeremy.

(Less flippantly, I hope your father gets out ok!).

[Garrus]

I went to Srinagar a few years back. Lovely people in Kashmir, and a very interesting place (unlike anywhere I've ever been) nestled amongst the mountains. 26 hour bus-ride to get there though, pretty much stuck in one long endless snaking line of trucks the whole way through the mountain passes.

It was by far the most heavily militarised place I have ever stepped foot in. Regular Indian Army, armed police and paramilitary patrols through the streets complete with APC's and regular military checkpoints. I was staying with a lovely and very welcoming family, who talked to me a lot about the situation there. As far as they were concerned they just wanted Kashmir to be independent, and to be left in peace and quiet. Very much a case of Kashmiri and proud and India and Pakistan can fuck off and stop using them as a pawn. Others wanted to join with Pakistan (there was one old bloke stood by the side of the road on the way in who seemed like he spent his days waving a Pakistani flag at passing traffic). As a side note, no one I spoke to wanted to be a part of India, but they have attached the administration of Kashmir to the Indian province of Jammu to even out the demographics more in favour of Indian Hindus.

I was told to avoid the centre of town on Friday after prayers because it saw weekly clashes between young locals and Indian security.

Unfortunately just a few months after I left everything kicked off big time after a popular Kashmiri militant was killed, with mass protests and clashes with security, curfews and protestors being killed and wounded.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_Kashmir_unrest

That probably has to do with the fact that a substantial portion of people who would have been sympathetic to Indian views were forced from their homes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus

[Qston]

I just sincerely hope that a political PR exercise doesn`t spark a big escalation in this. I was reading last year about the ever increasing cycle of tension in the area, which is tension really at a political level for point scoring, and not something that the people in the region want (as referenced above). It seems that both sides are using the 'Trump playbook' on dealing with a problem rather than cool heads - which is a worry

[Indomitable_Carp]

That probably has to do with the fact that a substantial portion of people who would have been sympathetic to Indian views were forced from their homes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus

Thanks for the link. I was not aware of this. Horrendous stuff.


Another point I meant to raise earlier was the family I was staying with have family on the other side of the Pakistani border who they have been permanently detached from (and this may well commonly be the case in other divided states like Punjab and Bengal) . 

The impression I got (and this is completely baseless other then my own impressions) was that those who held their Kashmiri identity first and foremost favoured Kashmiri independence, and those who held their Islamic identity first and foremost favoured unification with Pakistan.

Obviously on top of any communal divisions that may be present in Kashmir, being stuck in the middle of two adversarial nuclear-armed powers is never a good situation.

[west_london_red]

I also thought it was interesting that India used it’s ancient Mig-21 planes and none of its newer more modern planes for the bombing. This is a plane that dates back to the early 60’s, so was always going to struggle against modern planes and SAMs, especially when tensions are high and Pakistan would be on high alert. Hopefully all on both sides calm down as both countries have the ability to cause the other a lot of damage.

[thegoodfella]

They all chose either India or Pakistan, except the then ruler of Jammu & Kashmir,

Abridged versions of history are good, as is yours, however, you have missed out on plenty of details. Some of the 500+ Princely States considered setting up a confederation of their own, some considered staying independent, and like you wrote, some contemplated decision between joining Pakistan or India. And most of the princes, rulers, nizams, were cajoled, persuaded, encouraged, strong-armed, or literally forced in to joining them by both parties. In some cases, like Hyderabad, Junagarh, Kashmir, Bhawalpur, Kalat, the accessions was rather controversial to say the least, not to mention the splitting up of Punjab and Bengal and how that was done. I would implore everyone in the subcontinent to read the detailed history of the entire region before forming any opinion.

Quite a cock up by the British Empire, and further exacerbated by the successive rulers of both countries.

[west_london_red]

You also have to remember there a fair few Indians who still haven’t got over the creation of Pakistan yet, never mind ceding Kashmir to them. Although ironically these same people tend to be the most anti-Muslim but at the same time an undivided India would have an additional 400 million odd Muslims in its borders.

[drmick]

Thanks guys, so I'm going for cultural mostly in terms of what I asked earlier. But what is China's role in all of this?

[redmark]

Thanks guys, so I'm going for cultural mostly in terms of what I asked earlier. But what is China's role in all of this?

Regional superpower, with a long border with India (mostly via its control/occupation of Tibet) and a short one with Pakistan. Notably, it also borders directly Jammu & Kashmir - and is also extremely worried about (and clamping down on) Islamist organisations within China and thus may be sensitive to any possibility that a significant chunk of it's border may become even more lawless/radicalised in any conflict, or an extension of Pakistani territory.

[IndianKopite]

A very short and balanced summary of this issue has been provided in this thread and I have nothing to add on that front except that some of you guys are very well informed on global affairs.

I also thought it was interesting that India used it’s ancient Mig-21 planes and none of its newer more modern planes for the bombing. This is a plane that dates back to the early 60’s, so was always going to struggle against modern planes and SAMs, especially when tensions are high and Pakistan would be on high alert. Hopefully all on both sides calm down as both countries have the ability to cause the other a lot of damage.

From what I have heard, using IAF's SU-30 MKI would be couple of rungs up the escalation ladder that would eventually lead to a nuclear exchange so Indian government is avoiding it for now.Also they apparently want to protect its frequencies(I don't know what it means).

[Geppvindh's]

You also have to remember there a fair few Indians who still haven’t got over the creation of Pakistan yet, never mind ceding Kashmir to them. Although ironically these same people tend to be the most anti-Muslim but at the same time an undivided India would have an additional 400 million odd Muslims in its borders.

A fair few is putting it mildly. Doesn't help that the government is helmed by a power-hungry showman, and state propaganda channels and the ruling party's IT wing have managed to brainwash a large swathe of urban/semi-urban middle class into rabid, war-mongering, Islamophobic pieces of shit. I wouldn't for a second deny that India ever had these problems before Modi's election but they've made it mainstream and acceptable to hate on Muslims, lower castes, intellectuals, and university students that mobilise against the establishment. With elections nearing, it was going to be either a whose-testicles-are-bigger shitshow with Pakistan or manufacturing riots for the elusive temple in Ayodhya that would drum up support, not surprised one of them is playing out right when Modi and Shah want it.

[Geppvindh's]

Regional superpower, with a long border with India (mostly via its control/occupation of Tibet) and a short one with Pakistan. Notably, it also borders directly Jammu & Kashmir - and is also extremely worried about (and clamping down on) Islamist organisations within China and thus may be sensitive to any possibility that a significant chunk of it's border may become even more lawless/radicalised in any conflict, or an extension of Pakistani territory.

China also has long standing border disputes with India in the Ladakh region and has claimed the north-eastern state of Arunachal Pradesh as its own. It has upside in sowing more unrest in a region it has stakes in. Tibet also borders NE Kashmir (Ladakh).

[IndianKopite]

A fair few is putting it mildly. Doesn't help that the government is helmed by a power-hungry showman, and state propaganda channels and the ruling party's IT wing have managed to brainwash a large swathe of urban/semi-urban middle class into rabid, war-mongering, Islamophobic pieces of shit. I wouldn't for a second deny that India ever had these problems before Modi's election but they've made it mainstream and acceptable to hate on Muslims, lower castes, intellectuals, and university students that mobilise against the establishment. With elections nearing, it was going to be either a whose-testicles-are-bigger shitshow with Pakistan or manufacturing riots for the elusive temple in Ayodhya that would drum up support, not surprised one of them is playing out right when Modi and Shah want it.

I disagree about the part that under Modi,it is accetable to hate on Muslims,lower castes etc.New generation cares less and less with time about bullshit issues like religion and caste.In my experience, it is linked with education and economic status.Illiterate and poor people tend to be like what you mentioned but that kind of extremism in India has decreased,not increased,in last few years
Modi himself is backward caste in case you did'nt know.
Regarding what you call intellectuals and university students opposing Modi,if you believe  only JNU(a single  communist separatist infested college in India)faculty and students are intelligent people in India rest are stupid then more power to you.I won't even try to debate you.

About the part about Modi drumming up this issue due to elections, I suspect you might be right.But Pakistani establishment via is terrorist proxies operating with impunity under a nuclear umbrella gave Modi a casus belli to take stern action.Modi didn't do the terrorist attack on 14th Feb after all.
And Indians are sick of being blown up by bombs.Pakistan does not even achieve anything by it except to keep Kashmir in international headlines.I don't know what they hope to achieve by using terrorists against India? Maybe to tire India out of Kashmir like US and USSR out of Afghanistan.

The recent Pulwama attack using a suicide car bomber was a clear message to India by Pakistan that with US now retreating from Afghanistan those Taliban mujahideen would now be diverted towards Kashmir.In case you didn't know, taliban savages came to power in Afghanistan in 1990s due to active support of Pakistani military including air support by PAF.

Current standoff is an attempt at drawing new red lines of miliatary response(including nuclear if needed) by India in face of danger posed by Taliban in Kashmir.

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

I also thought it was interesting that India used it’s ancient Mig-21 planes and none of its newer more modern planes for the bombing. This is a plane that dates back to the early 60’s, so was always going to struggle against modern planes and SAMs, especially when tensions are high and Pakistan would be on high alert. Hopefully all on both sides calm down as both countries have the ability to cause the other a lot of damage.

The Mig 21s are the bison variant which are much modernized. Only the aurframe is the same as the original Mig 21.

Quite capable little interceptors & point defence machines they are and a couple of them can take on an F 16 c block , no problem.

Their heavy weapon is the Su 30mki which they have around 300 odd. That can take on any plane with the possible exception of the F 22 in a dog fight. Pakistan has nothing close to an Su 30 mki.

India also has Mig 29s, HaL Tejas, Upgraded Jaguars, Mirage 2000s .. with about 40 odd Rafales to be bought.

[[new username under construction]]

The Mig 21s are the bison variant which are much modernized. Only the aurframe is the same as the original Mig 21.

Quite capable little interceptors & point defence machines they are and a couple of them can take on an F 16 c block , no problem.

Their heavy weapon is the Su 30mki which they have around 300 odd. That can take on any plane with the possible exception of the F 22 in a dog fight. Pakistan has nothing close to an Su 30 mki.

India also has Mig 29s, HaL Tejas, Upgraded Jaguars, Mirage 2000s .. with about 40 odd Rafales to be bought.

Plus India can completely jam Pakistan's communications systems by using all their call centers to ring them at the same time

[vagabond]

Pakistan 'to free Indian pilot on Friday'

Pakistan will release a captured Indian pilot as a "peace gesture" on Friday, Prime Minister Imran Khan has said.

Mr Khan revealed the decision in parliament after a speech in which he said Pakistan was focused on de-escalation.

Pakistan shot down the pilot's jet on Wednesday, as tensions rose with India over the disputed region of Kashmir.

His capture was a major setback for India. Both sides are under pressure to calm tensions.

India struck targets in Pakistan on Tuesday after a militant attack on its security forces earlier this month that it blamed on its neighbour.

Pakistan said it had no choice but to retaliate with air strikes on Wednesday, which led to a dogfight and the Indian fighter jet being shot down.

Imran Khan showing some maturity here. Let us hope it is enough to calm the region down.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Pakistan 'to free Indian pilot on Friday'
Imran Khan showing some maturity here. Let us hope it is enough to calm the region down.

The pressure is now on India to come forward to the table and see to that they provide their side of the story on how they think Pakistan sponsors terrorism.

But if the Modi brigade demands an action with elections on the horizon, this would make India look bad on the International stage.

Brilliantly played Imran Khan.

[IndianKopite]

Pakistan 'to free Indian pilot on Friday'


Imran Khan showing some maturity here. Let us hope it is enough to calm the region down.

From my perspective, if he were mature, he would not use terrorists to further his country's geopolitical over-ambitions by using terrorists as means under threat of nuclear retaliation.

Can you imagine UK negotiating Brexit by sending terrorists to EU and threatening to nuke EU if they refuse UK's demands.
Should India start using terrorism against China same way and China against US ?

[IndianKopite]

The pressure is now on India to come forward to the table and see to that they provide their side of the story on how they think Pakistan sponsors terrorism.

But if the Modi brigade demands an action with elections on the horizon, this would make India look bad on the International stage.

Brilliantly played Imran Khan.

India has already proved proof ample times sinces 1990s and the whole world including UN,USA,EU,UK, BRICS,and Pakistan itself recognises these groups as terrorist groups.
But they take no action against them since they are Pakistan's trump card against India.

The case against the mastermind of 2008 Mumbai attacks has been on going for more than 10 years during which he has even fathered two children.
These groups openly run networks of madrassas where young impressionable children are brainwashed and given training in operating weapons, bomb making, guerilla warfare etc.

Kashmir people supported India in wars against Pakistan in 1948 and 1965 because Pakistani army pillaged and raped Kashmiris in 1947 and that generation remembered that.
After that, Pakistan launched Psyops to radicalize Kashmiri population and make them hate Kuffars(non-believers in Allah)
This generation is brainwashed, only knows Indian army's sporadic but real oppression.
And more terrorism Pakistan spreads, more army India has to deploy and more power is given to the army.
This perpetuates a positive cascade loop.

[Indomitable_Carp]

From my perspective, if he were mature, he would not use terrorists to further his country's geopolitical over-ambitions by using terrorists as means under threat of nuclear retaliation.

Can you imagine UK negotiating Brexit by sending terrorists to EU and threatening to nuke EU if they refuse UK's demands.
Should India start using terrorism against China same way and China against US ?

It has been my understand that the issue with Pakistan is that there is a constant power struggle between the civilian government, the military and the intelligence services with each of these branches of state often operating independently and even in direct contradiction to one another.

Certainly in terms of the West's dealings with Pakistan during the War in Afghanistan and the wider 'War on Terror', is that the Pakistan civilian government and military would be working and actively cooperating with the West, meanwhile the intelligence services would be supporting the very same militants that the Army and civilian government were targetting in conjunction with the West.

My point being that while Imran Khan is head of Pakistan, it is quite unlikely that he is directing such incidents from the top.

[IndianKopite]

It has been my understand that the issue with Pakistan is that there is a constant power struggle between the civilian government, the military and the intelligence services with each of these branches of state often operating independently and even in direct contradiction to one another.

Certainly in terms of the West's dealings with Pakistan during the War in Afghanistan and the wider 'War on Terror', is that the Pakistan civilian government and military would be working and actively cooperating with the West, meanwhile the intelligence services would be supporting the very same militants that the Army and civilian government were targetting in conjunction with the West.

My point being that while Imran Khan is head of Pakistan, it is quite unlikely that he is directing such incidents from the top.

Yes there is a Pakistani Establishment consisting of military, the intelligence agency ISI and few bureaucrats who control Pakistani policy.
Imran Khan is just a rubber stamp PM.He is known as selected, not elected, PM in Pakistan.After many military coups which lead to sanctions, Pakistani military has decided to rule Pakistan from behind the scenes instead.Its much simpler and doesn't attract negative publicity.

Any politician that goes against Pakistani establishment is either exiled(Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan) or jailed(Nawaz Sharif) or killed(Z.A Bhutto, Benazir Bhutto) or all three.

Pakistani military runs a huge business empire worth billions of dollars.What would Pakistani military gain by manufacturing condoms?They use conflict with larger India to extract maximum benefits to themselves from Pakistani society.

Its in Pakistani military's interest to keep Indo-Pak conflict simmering(but not boiling) so they can show themselves as protectors of Pakistani people and continue looting the country.Even after taking Kashmir, they would only go after other parts of India.

[Max_powers]

The pressure is now on India to come forward to the table and see to that they provide their side of the story on how they think Pakistan sponsors terrorism.

But if the Modi brigade demands an action with elections on the horizon, this would make India look bad on the International stage.

Brilliantly played Imran Khan.

I think its generally quite accepted in the international community that Pakistan has many terrorist organizations working out of their borders. Many of those are if not sponsored, ignored by Pakistani authorities because they are said to target India. I mean the man accused of the Mumbai attacks that killed 174 people is roaming free in Pakistan.

I agree with what you say though, too much warmongering and aggression by India will only lead to more deaths, and could potentially make them look bad. This surgical strike stuff is all well and good if based on good intelligence it ends up targeting a terrorist camp, but as seen by US bombing in Afganistan and Pakistan, sometimes those bombs can end up blowing up a school or a wedding. Which would obviously make India look bad.

[IndianKopite]

I think its generally quite accepted in the international community that Pakistan has many terrorist organizations working out of their borders. Many of those are if not sponsored, ignored by Pakistani authorities because they are said to target India. I mean the man accused of the Mumbai attacks that killed 174 people is roaming free in Pakistan.

I agree with what you say though, too much warmongering and aggression by India will only lead to more deaths, and could potentially make them look bad. This surgical strike stuff is all well and good if based on good intelligence it ends up targeting a terrorist camp, but as seen by US bombing in Afganistan and Pakistan, sometimes those bombs can end up blowing up a school or a wedding. Which would obviously make India look bad.

Yes and in response to Indian air strike on one of few remote isolated terrorist training camps in Balakot on 26 Feb, Pakistan has already ordered remaining jihadi militants to disperse in civilian areas.

Incidentally this terrorist camp was destroyed by an earthquake in 2005 but rebuilt on a grander scale with a swimming pool and a 12-horse stable in 2006 with Saudi money.
This was Oxford University of terrorist training, with about 325 students ready to blow themselves at a moments notice and 25 trainers.

What would UK do if it were in India's position? India's response is new military, including nuclear, red lines when it comes to terrorism.
Modi has decided not to absorb any more terrorist strikes from Pakistan which was the policy under previous govt.
Does India not have right to defend itself from terrorism ?

[FlashingBlade]

Im curious how the respective Indian and Pakistani ( and for that matter Kashmeri) diaspora communities in the UK are taking this , in particular with each other. Anyone here in a postion to comment?

[J_Kopite]

Im curious how the respective Indian and Pakistani ( and for that matter Kashmeri) diaspora communities in the UK are taking this , in particular with each other. Anyone here in a postion to comment?

Southall and Luton gonna be lit if this escalates

[redmark]

Southall and Luton gonna be lit if this escalates

Luton seems pretty calm (for Luton). Mind, I only work here. No fights (yet) between Indian (mostly outsourced-onsite contractors) and Pakistani (mostly local/permanent) staff.

[west_london_red]

Im curious how the respective Indian and Pakistani ( and for that matter Kashmeri) diaspora communities in the UK are taking this , in particular with each other. Anyone here in a postion to comment?

Most of us don’t care, it flares up between the two countries every couple of years so everyone’s pretty used to it. But you also have to remember within Indian and Pakistanis diasporas there’s a lot of differences in terms of regional differences, what they think of the current government, how nationalist they are or arnt that impacts how much they care. It hasn’t once been mentioned in my house, and that’s with my dad having a flight booked to India at the end of the month to an airport that’s only 20 odd miles from the Pakistan border.

[thegoodfella]

That's some class A propaganda Kool-aid you have been drinking mate.