Author Topic: Those chants  (Read 183273 times)

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #200 on: October 23, 2022, 03:24:57 pm »
As hard as it is to accept and as disgusting, hurtful and harmful they are to everyone connected with what happened at Hillsborough they still aren't breaking the law like homophobic or racist chants are.

It would take something totally unique within the game itself where any chants from any fans regarding football tragedies becomes a law in their own right like a bringing the game into disrepute type law.


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Re: Those chants
« Reply #201 on: October 23, 2022, 03:28:10 pm »
Anyone seen any video evidence of any coins at the City game yet?  Or video evidence of the bus damage?

Yeah, me neither.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #202 on: October 23, 2022, 04:00:44 pm »
Anyone seen any video evidence of any coins at the City game yet?  Or video evidence of the bus damage?

Yeah, me neither.

Turns out they didn’t need to. Majority of dumb c*nts who follow Premier League football are more than happy to lap it up and believe every word.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #203 on: October 23, 2022, 04:12:25 pm »
the reporting of this is so different to how ours was reported. We basically had a footnote in the article about pep getting coins thrown at him.

We're held to ridiculous standards, nobody else is held to any within reason.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #204 on: October 23, 2022, 04:15:36 pm »
Anyone seen any video evidence of any coins at the City game yet?  Or video evidence of the bus damage?

Yeah, me neither.
All we've seen is a picture of a chipped windscreen on a bus. No evidence at all that it was the Abu Dhabi bus that brought them to and from Anfield with a police escort and was then parked up overnight in Manchester before the chip was even noticed the following day then blamed on 'an attack' by Liverpool fans.

Despite there being numerous cameras at the game we are yet to see any footage at all of coingate.

None of it has to be true anyway. All they have to do is put the accusation out there, then confirmation bias does the rest for them. Job done.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2022, 04:18:15 pm by Son of Spion »
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #205 on: October 23, 2022, 04:19:42 pm »
We're held to ridiculous standards, nobody else is held to any within reason.
The standards we are held to are ridiculous given the low bar acceptable in everyone else.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #206 on: October 23, 2022, 07:37:12 pm »
It's on the increase now partly as it's the only thing other fans know they've got that gets to us.

A few years ago it was the Gerrard song. Now it's 'bore off lads, we've won the lot since then, why are you still singing that?'. It was always sign on and poverty stuff and now they get a full hearted 'fuck the Tories' back and get made to feel like the stupid Tory pricks they are. Even City singing about trophies they've won when nobody cares because they're all bought and paid for. They sing the national anthem as if that's supposed to bother us, when it's just laughed at, especially from a club from Manchester. What does it leave? The only thing they know that will actually get to us.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #207 on: October 23, 2022, 08:01:28 pm »
As hard as it is to accept and as disgusting, hurtful and harmful they are to everyone connected with what happened at Hillsborough they still aren't breaking the law like homophobic or racist chants are.

It would take something totally unique within the game itself where any chants from any fans regarding football tragedies becomes a law in their own right like a bringing the game into disrepute type law.
That’s because in everyday life the dead, bereaved and traumatised are not subject to abuse and discrimination, it’s only in football. That’s why the football authorities need to take the lead. Instead, they will hide behind the Equalities Act.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #208 on: October 23, 2022, 08:16:02 pm »
That’s because in everyday life the dead, bereaved and traumatised are not subject to abuse and discrimination, it’s only in football. That’s why the football authorities need to take the lead. Instead, they will hide behind the Equalities Act.

That is a great point mate.

I think the simplest thing for clubs to do is to amend the terms and conditions they sell match tickets under. Add a line making it clear that offensive chants are off limits. They would then have the right to act against people who break those terms and conditions instead of relying on the Equalities act.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #209 on: October 23, 2022, 08:33:30 pm »
That is a great point mate.

I think the simplest thing for clubs to do is to amend the terms and conditions they sell match tickets under. Add a line making it clear that offensive chants are off limits. They would then have the right to act against people who break those terms and conditions instead of relying on the Equalities act.

I agree with you entirely - I think the biggest impediment is that many fans already consider the game to be overly sanitised and I think these fans will push back strongly against what they will consider the final gentrification of the game.

You are right though that on paper it would provide clear guidelines for the authorities, stewards, other fans, etc to work to and might encourage self policing

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #210 on: October 23, 2022, 09:07:13 pm »
I agree with you entirely - I think the biggest impediment is that many fans already consider the game to be overly sanitised and I think these fans will push back strongly against what they will consider the final gentrification of the game.

You are right though that on paper it would provide clear guidelines for the authorities, stewards, other fans, etc to work to and might encourage self policing

It has already happened with persistent standing at matches. There is surprisingly no legislation that forces fans to sit at matches. Licensing authorities have been able to reduce ticket allocations or ban fans altogether because fans have breached the terms and conditions on their tickets. Safety certificates are issued on the proviso that the terms and conditions of entry require fans not to persistently stand. 

Burnley for instance sent a number of season tickets letters stating they were breaching the terms and conditions of their tickets by persistently standing. When they ignored the letters they were banned from the Stadium.

Liverpool could amend the terms and conditions and inform the away team that their allocation will be cut if away fans do not adhere to those conditions.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/20684245.burnley-fc-bans-fans-persistent-standing-turf-moor/
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #211 on: October 23, 2022, 09:13:02 pm »
It has already happened with persistent standing at matches. There is surprisingly no legislation that forces fans to sit at matches. Licensing authorities have been able to reduce ticket allocations or ban fans altogether because fans have breached the terms and conditions on their tickets. Safety certificates are issued on the proviso that the terms and conditions of entry require fans not to persistently stand. 

Burnley for instance sent a number of season tickets letters stating they were breaching the terms and conditions of their tickets by persistently standing. When they ignored the letters they were banned from the Stadium.

Liverpool could amend the terms and conditions and inform the away team that their allocation will be cut if away fans do not adhere to those conditions.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/20684245.burnley-fc-bans-fans-persistent-standing-turf-moor/

I didn't realise that there were clubs who had taken that sort of action.

I'd imagine it is easier to identify standing than singing but shows it can be done.

On the basis that this is (from a legal standpoint) a private business and premises then they can presumably set the rules as they choose (as you state). Guessing the reluctance is in part that the club won't do it unless clubs across the league do the same?

One thing that caught my ear last week was on the Guardian podcast - Monday's pod had quite a dismissive and glossed over statement on it and then on Thursday you had the host apologising for how he dealt with it and doing a much better job of discussing it appropriately.

Hopefully he has learned from that - I presume it is due to fans writing/emailing/tweeting in and this causing them to realise that they can't get away with half arsing it

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #212 on: October 23, 2022, 09:24:31 pm »
While we cannot drag 3,000 ghouls out of the stadium for singing their death songs, I definitely think the away end should be better policed and individual offenders should be dragged out and prosecuted. Their prosecution should be publicised with offenders named. The message will soon get out that offenders actually risk being held accountable for their repulsive behaviour.

You cannot get away with taunting bereaved people in the street. You shouldn't be able to walk away from doing so in football grounds either.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #213 on: October 23, 2022, 09:53:49 pm »
While we cannot drag 3,000 ghouls out of the stadium for singing their death songs, I definitely think the away end should be better policed and individual offenders should be dragged out and prosecuted. Their prosecution should be publicised with offenders named. The message will soon get out that offenders actually risk being held accountable for their repulsive behaviour.

You cannot get away with taunting bereaved people in the street. You shouldn't be able to walk away from doing so in football grounds either.

Exactly how racist chants have been dealt with.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #214 on: October 24, 2022, 12:54:43 am »
Exactly how racist chants have been dealt with.
Spot on. It was never a case of dragging hundreds of knuckle draggers out. That's simply not possible. It was tackled by there first being a will to tackle it, then by dragging out individuals, naming and shaming them, fining them and banning them. The message soon hit home and the vast majority stopped airing their racism in grounds.

Those identified often lost jobs too because of being named and shamed. The idiots soon realised that their actions could have consequences, so they shut the hell up.

You often silence a mob by taking out the biggest mouth. You don't need to arrest the whole mob in order to tame it. As you said, taking out the prominent racists in isolation then publicising their unacceptable actions and the consequences of them really helped turn the tide on racist chants in this country.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #215 on: October 24, 2022, 08:10:47 am »
Waiting for the club’s statement against Forest fans’ chanting…

About time we put a stop to this shite once and for all.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #216 on: October 24, 2022, 09:51:04 am »
The defence of "Always The Victims isn't about Hillsborough" falls down with the first word of the chant.

There is no ambiguity about the word "always". I'm sick of seeing "it's not about Hillsborough it's about Heysel/Suarez/Klopp Blaming the Weather/Scouse not English/Salah Diving". The word always does not exclude anything, but it does include everything. And "Never Your Fault"... what's that in relation to then?

The levels of whataboutery people will go to in order to justify mocking a loss of life is disgusting and it's overwhelming how many people are supportive of it.

And these people wonder why we don't want to stand arm in arm with them supporting England? After listening to that shite at every single ground, including Goodison? Nah.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #217 on: October 24, 2022, 09:54:40 am »
Spot on. It was never a case of dragging hundreds of knuckle draggers out. That's simply not possible. It was tackled by there first being a will to tackle it, then by dragging out individuals, naming and shaming them, fining them and banning them. The message soon hit home and the vast majority stopped airing their racism in grounds.

Those identified often lost jobs too because of being named and shamed. The idiots soon realised that their actions could have consequences, so they shut the hell up.

You often silence a mob by taking out the biggest mouth. You don't need to arrest the whole mob in order to tame it. As you said, taking out the prominent racists in isolation then publicising their unacceptable actions and the consequences of them really helped turn the tide on racist chants in this country.
This all the way for me, we've seen a few examples where individuals have quickly realised they cannot spread poison on social media without consequences when they've been pulled by their employers for stupid things they've said.

I live away now, but I'd really want to know whether my plumber / dentist / barman / builder etc. who greets me with smiles because they'll earn off me, has spent the weekend in Liverpool abusing the families of people that were killed unlawfully over 30 years ago.

I'd love some of the pricks that spout shite at Anfield to have the bollocks to sit in front of families and say it to their faces. Just as I'd love those singing about poverty etc. to say stuff to all of our faces.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #218 on: October 24, 2022, 10:05:20 am »
The defence of "Always The Victims isn't about Hillsborough" falls down with the first word of the chant.

There is no ambiguity about the word "always". I'm sick of seeing "it's not about Hillsborough it's about Heysel/Suarez/Klopp Blaming the Weather/Scouse not English/Salah Diving". The word always does not exclude anything, but it does include everything. And "Never Your Fault"... what's that in relation to then?

The levels of whataboutery people will go to in order to justify mocking a loss of life is disgusting and it's overwhelming how many people are supportive of it.

And these people wonder why we don't want to stand arm in arm with them supporting England? After listening to that shite at every single ground, including Goodison? Nah.
Is it every ground? Don’t recall hearing it from Arsenal, Spurs, Palace, Fulham, Brentford, Brighton, Southampton or Bournemouth. But I may have missed it.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #219 on: October 24, 2022, 10:42:32 am »
Is it every ground? Don’t recall hearing it from Arsenal, Spurs, Palace, Fulham, Brentford, Brighton, Southampton or Bournemouth. But I may have missed it.

There’s a difference in numbers but I recall hearing it from pockets of away fans at most if not all home games. Some are definitely louder than others.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #220 on: October 24, 2022, 11:58:53 am »
Oh for the days when our supporters would take action themselves against these knuckledraggers.

Waiting for the relevant authorities to take action is not gonna happen.

We are  shouting but no one is listening.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #221 on: October 24, 2022, 12:33:28 pm »
All we've seen is a picture of a chipped windscreen on a bus. No evidence at all that it was the Abu Dhabi bus that brought them to and from Anfield with a police escort and was then parked up overnight in Manchester before the chip was even noticed the following day then blamed on 'an attack' by Liverpool fans.

Despite there being numerous cameras at the game we are yet to see any footage at all of coingate.

None of it has to be true anyway. All they have to do is put the accusation out there, then confirmation bias does the rest for them. Job done.
We can't just leave this?  We need to officially request any footage from City (so they can't stitch us up at a later date) and when there clearly is none, this needs to go to the PL and papers.  Otherwise, we continue to get shafted with this nonsense on an ongoing basis.  I suspect we are as financially scared of City as the FA and PL are though...
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #222 on: October 24, 2022, 12:50:22 pm »
The more we moan about this, the more it will happen.

Fans pick whatever they can to hurt the opposition fans.

We’re not dealing with sober empathetic individuals, most are angry drunks wanting to lash out.

Always happened and always will.

That's utter bollocks. How do you know any of the scumbags chanting are angry, or are drunk?

Ignoring it doesn't make it go away. Our club has ignored it for 30 years and it is getting worse.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #223 on: October 24, 2022, 01:12:10 pm »
We can't just leave this?  We need to officially request any footage from City (so they can't stitch us up at a later date) and when there clearly is none, this needs to go to the PL and papers.  Otherwise, we continue to get shafted with this nonsense on an ongoing basis.  I suspect we are as financially scared of City as the FA and PL are though...
I don't think anyone outside of our club and fanbase gives a monkeys now. The damage is done and the narrative set. It's now set in stone that Liverpool threw coins at Ped and attacked their bus. The fact there seems to be no actual evidence that these things happened simply doesn't matter.

Confirmation bias is a powerful thing. Abu Dhabi don't actually need evidence in order to make these accusations stick. The general willingness in this country to believe anything negative about Liverpool the city and Liverpool the club means all anyone has to do is throw out an accusation, because it will then be accepted as fact by the majority whether there is evidence of not.

Especially with the bus, they can't prove anyone to do with our club did anything to it at all. But we can't prove we didn't either so, again, the accusation sticks.

I'm not sure what can be done about it. The people behind the sportswash operate on many levels. Propaganda and psychology are right in the mix. The whole sportswash itself is about manipulating opinion and perspective. It's telling that nothing was said about coins and bus attacks until long after the game and only after LFC put out a statement about the abhorrent behaviour of Abu Dhabi 'fans'.

They lost the game and they lost face due to their scumbaggery being called out publicly. From then on it was 'Operation slur and face save' by the Abu Dhabi regime. All attention was then diverted onto those nasty Scousers. They knew what they were doing. They knew how one tit throwing a bottle four years ago has led to endless condemnation of LFC fans generally. They knew another similar slur would be lapped up with relish, true or not. They are not only playing a sportswashing war on English football on the field of play, they are playing a psychological war through the media and on social media too. Idiots are being made use of all over the show. It's far bigger than rich guys meddling in football. This is pariah states operating massive grabs for hearts, minds, power and influence. No low is too low to stoop to for such people.

While proper football clubs are concerned with winning games on the field and staying financially viable off it, these people are working with an entirely different agenda altogether and are using every tactic available to them to push on with it. It's now more of a war than a sport.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2022, 01:15:42 pm by Son of Spion »
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #224 on: October 24, 2022, 01:21:25 pm »
Just shows the influence Mancs still have as well. Could be wrong but I don’t really remember anyone giving us shit it disrupting Ilene a about Hillsborough apart from them in the 90s and early 2000s. Everything seemed to ramp up around a couple of points - that Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson Spectator article that saw them labelling us a self pity city and then having the misfortune to play them the weekend after the HIP report was published in 2012. We (rightly) made a big thing of it, that’s when Always the Victims was belted out and became more of a talking point. Since then, it seems to have deepens more and more into the wider footballing consciousness.

All the Heysel jibes have increased in volume in recent years too. Must be linked to social media but the amount of ignorant twats who use it as a jibe when you know they don’t give a shit and are just scoring points.

Sorry, no answers to how you stop things getting worse. Used to think people in general were ok and it’s just a noisy minority that make things seem morse but just don’t know anymore.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #225 on: October 24, 2022, 01:55:10 pm »
"There's no smoke without fire" - a phrase I associate with people I know who refuse to understand confirmation bias.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #226 on: October 24, 2022, 02:21:02 pm »
The defence of "Always The Victims isn't about Hillsborough" falls down with the first word of the chant.

There is no ambiguity about the word "always". I'm sick of seeing "it's not about Hillsborough it's about Heysel/Suarez/Klopp Blaming the Weather/Scouse not English/Salah Diving". The word always does not exclude anything, but it does include everything. And "Never Your Fault"... what's that in relation to then?

The levels of whataboutery people will go to in order to justify mocking a loss of life is disgusting and it's overwhelming how many people are supportive of it.

And these people wonder why we don't want to stand arm in arm with them supporting England? After listening to that shite at every single ground, including Goodison? Nah.

It also infers that no other football club has ever used a ropey excuse for a poor display, had a player who dives or been embroiled in a contentious incident in which they backed their own player.

Every football club does this sort of thing, yet it's only Liverpool who are 'always the victims'. Funny that...
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #227 on: October 24, 2022, 04:20:07 pm »
That ridiculously unfunny version of "Allez Allez Allez" from City is another example of where there's no room for ambiguity in chants.

"Battered in the streets is not about Sean Cox, that Liverpool fan who was battered in the street around the time the song started"

You do give up with arguing these points. People who are genuinely that deluded (and just thick, basically) who will argue until they're blue in the face that you are wrong, you are deluded, and then in the same breath revert to the "typical scousers" quote which is usually the first seed in this anti-Liverpool hatred which a lot of people carry but nobody can quite explain.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #228 on: October 24, 2022, 10:03:56 pm »
That's out of order, isn't it?  :no


The City fans were throwing things at their own players - it's clearly visible on MOTD footage after the disallowed goal is initially scored and celebrated.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #229 on: October 24, 2022, 10:15:57 pm »
The City fans were throwing things at their own players - it's clearly visible on MOTD footage after the disallowed goal is initially scored and celebrated.
I knew about that. Bizarre that they did so, but equally out of order too.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #230 on: October 25, 2022, 01:46:42 am »

'Why Hillsborough Chants Must Be Punished Now':-

Liverpool fans were reminded of the damage done by Hillsborough all too recently, the chants that form further reminders need to be punished…

www.theanfieldwrap.com/2022/10/writing-hillsborough-chants-must-be-punished-now


^ well worth a read.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #231 on: October 25, 2022, 11:38:09 am »

As usual, David Squires simply just gets it...


'David Squires on … Hillsborough chants and football fans’ fading memories':-

Our resident cartoonist asks if some fans have forgotten that the horrors of 1989 could have happened to any group of supporters

www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2022/oct/25/david-squires-on-hillsborough-chants-and-football-fans-fading-memories
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #232 on: October 25, 2022, 11:47:01 am »
As usual, David Squires simply just gets it...


'David Squires on … Hillsborough chants and football fans’ fading memories':-

Our resident cartoonist asks if some fans have forgotten that the horrors of 1989 could have happened to any group of supporters

www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2022/oct/25/david-squires-on-hillsborough-chants-and-football-fans-fading-memories

Thanks for that. Hadn't seen it.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #233 on: October 25, 2022, 12:13:13 pm »
As usual, David Squires simply just gets it...


'David Squires on … Hillsborough chants and football fans’ fading memories':-

Our resident cartoonist asks if some fans have forgotten that the horrors of 1989 could have happened to any group of supporters

www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2022/oct/25/david-squires-on-hillsborough-chants-and-football-fans-fading-memories

Magnificent as always - but this one requires just a little longer to absorb - it's special.
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*    *   *   *   *   *   *   *    *    *   *   *    *   *   *   *   *    *    *
01 06 22 23 47 64 66 73 76 77 79 80 82 83 84 86 88 90 20


*   *    *    *   *   *   
77 78 81 84 05 19


At The End Of The Storm I

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #234 on: October 25, 2022, 01:00:19 pm »
Magnificent as always - but this one requires just a little longer to absorb - it's special.

Just seen that. Very poignant.

Think how nuts it is when you break it down. Asking people not to sing songs about dead fans, and then thinking it might spoil some of their fun if they do. How do people get that spiteful?

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #235 on: October 25, 2022, 02:21:09 pm »
As usual, David Squires simply just gets it...


'David Squires on … Hillsborough chants and football fans’ fading memories':-

Our resident cartoonist asks if some fans have forgotten that the horrors of 1989 could have happened to any group of supporters

www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2022/oct/25/david-squires-on-hillsborough-chants-and-football-fans-fading-memories

Funny how a simple comic strip can be so touching.

Brilliant work.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #236 on: October 25, 2022, 02:36:36 pm »
Something that has been mentioned lots no doubt but has the club ever responded to anyone as to an actual reason why they never take any action?

I mean nothing can be done in other grounds but it’s the clubs ground and there are thousands of away fans literally taunting the families with abhorrent chants.

As some have said you can’t get away with such things on the street why on earth is this allowed to go on is just maddening.

The club need to toughen up and stop this abuse happening.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #237 on: October 25, 2022, 07:20:49 pm »
That's utter bollocks. How do you know any of the scumbags chanting are angry, or are drunk?

Ignoring it doesn't make it go away. Our club has ignored it for 30 years and it is getting worse.


Not exactly a major jump to a conclusion is it ? Loutish behaviour is often undertaken by the louts of society - who typically consume excess alcohol before matches and then rant and rave when at matches.  They are the ones who are verbally and physically abusive to others.

Overall I very much doubt that the people chanting in the main are tee-total parish leaders.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #238 on: October 25, 2022, 09:40:47 pm »
Something that has been mentioned lots no doubt but has the club ever responded to anyone as to an actual reason why they never take any action?

I mean nothing can be done in other grounds but it’s the clubs ground and there are thousands of away fans literally taunting the families with abhorrent chants.

As some have said you can’t get away with such things on the street why on earth is this allowed to go on is just maddening.

The club need to toughen up and stop this abuse happening.
I'd definitely like to see the club tighten up on what happens in the away end. If the will is there, it can be done. I know they can't do much about what happens outside, but they can definitely do more inside.

It's coming to a head now and people will take things into their own hands. Events at Sandon Garage after the West Ham game show that people aren't taking it lying down anymore.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #239 on: October 25, 2022, 09:51:07 pm »

Not exactly a major jump to a conclusion is it ? Loutish behaviour is often undertaken by the louts of society - who typically consume excess alcohol before matches and then rant and rave when at matches.  They are the ones who are verbally and physically abusive to others.

Overall I very much doubt that the people chanting in the main are tee-total parish leaders.


So are you saying that most of c*nts in OT,the pit,the bridge etc,etc are drunken louts or did you just take a major jump into bullshit ?
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