Topic: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans

[shelovesyou]

What I dont get is who the fuck is telling them to say all this stuff about long term and young players etc if they know nothing themselves about the game ?

[juan1001]

What is his qualifications to make footballing choices?

He's not making footballing decisions. He's making financial decisions that are overriding ANY footballing concerns.

[vagildi]

Anyone know what direct influence Ian Ayre has in all of this?

[coolbyrne]

So John Henry is deciding on the valuation's of footballers he's probably never heard of,brilliant.

Is this a fact or just another point of speculation and hyperbole?

[Gnurglan]

It's actually something I'm starting to ponder about us. I look at this side and I see young players with fresh idea's on one hand(Allen,Sterling,Shelvey,Borini etc) but mentally scarred individuals on the other (Reina,Gerrard,Skrtel,Agger) with players of debatable value in between (Downing,Enrique etc). We're looking at a long term project, both on and off the pitch, so is it better to get a huge amount next summer for players who it's fair to say carry baggage and use that cash influx on fresh,young hungry players who can grow as a team together (similar to what Dortmund have done). Or do we keep trying this failing patchwork job of bringing in new faces in hope it repairs damaged goods?

Personally I'm starting to think it needs the former.

The situation we have is very simple. We carry expensive players who don't offer enough. They are the ones who should be sold. From the money raised, we can buy new players and improve the team. The age of the player we need can vary. It will depend on the situation what is best for us.
I disagree with the ideas to sell Agger or Skrtel. Why would we even consider it, when we have those expensive players on the bench, who should be the first to go?

[juan1001]

What I dont get is who the fuck is telling them to say all this stuff about long term and young players etc if they know nothing themselves about the game ?

It's all spin to try and keep the natives from getting too wrestles. It's all about $$$, nothing to do with football.

[redbanky]

Tom - spot on, mate. With you all the way on this. We don't know how to be patient any more, and every little set back is pounced upon as if it's the end of the world. We're rebuilding a club that almost ceased to exist. Mistakes have been made. And 2 or 3 years ago, all we were crying out for was an owner or a set of owners who would run us in a way that meant we spent what we could afford. An owner that increased our revenue to allow us to compete.

We have owners who are trying to do that. They've made a couple of mistakes. But it was never a quick and easy job. It was always long term. And while we were crying out for this when we almost fucking disappeared, now we can't seem to find the patience to create the thing we were all screaming for.

"We don't want a sugar daddy like Chelsea" they said...

Turns out they do.

Yeah, because wanting the owners to plug the gaping holes with bloody 2 (that's TWO) million more for Dempsey is the same like splashing tens of millions like Chelsea, City, PSG et al do.

No, for some of you guys, it's either we are under budget or we have sugar daddies. God forbid that anyone just wants to see the manager supported when it comes to MINOR BLOODY ISSUES.

[rusty-la]

Should of got the players in 1st before hanging out the players he didn't want to dry and decreasing their value at the same time.

He was navie.

Fordy, that's a naive comment

All Summer FSG have cut costs, their primary focus has been on the bottom line. The accountants are in charge. Its now all about 'Sweating' the Asset.

There was no way, at all, ever, we were gonna buy players before we Sold. 

Its not the FSG way. Surely you see that.

[Guz-kop]

Those two articles are too similar to not come from someone spreading some propaganda

[TALBERT]

Anyone know what direct influence Ian Ayre has in all of this?

None I hope why would they listen to him

What is certain is he is the next scapegoat and the next person to be sacked

[Eeyore]

I can't believe people are surprised at Henry making decisions on players valuations Carroll being worth Torres and 15m anyone.

[Drake31]

What I dont get is who the fuck is telling them to say all this stuff about long term and young players etc if they know nothing themselves about the game ?

this was a concern before was it not when they were taking advice from somebody at  arsenal on how to run our club 

[Mutton Geoff]

Well I reckon Jen ( who writes a good letter perhaps) did not feed Andy and Tony with those points so who did?

[shelovesyou]

Why is the owner making footballing decisions?

Thats what sticks out isnt it ?
I mean, who the fuck is he to dictate that ? I know in essence its his money/club, but you dont delegate and then step in when it suits.
He has no fucking right to do that at all. If I were BR id fuck off.

[Aaron Cross]

Henry can write all the letters he wants, FSG are complete fuck ups, they don't seem popular with Red Sox fans either, they just make so many stupid decisions it's unreal, they bring all this on themselves, and to me seem so contradictory in everything they say. Henry says they have made mistakes, ok fair enough, yet in the same letter he then defends his decision to not over pay for a 29yr old and not back the manager?? Hang on a sec, there's a mistake right there you arrogant fool! He had the 4mil from Adam all he had to do was to back HIS new manager and pay the diffence of 2-3mil, they saved 14mil or whatever it was thru other sales and loans anyway so what's the problem? now that 3mil will cost them much more than that, not to mention they've fucked themselves with the fanbase, again stupid decisions which are completely avoidable, and there supposed to be smart operators?

[TALBERT]

I can't believe people are surprised at Henry making decisions on players valuations Carroll being worth Torres and 15m anyone.

I always thought he sounded like an idiot saying that

I was basically like saying we would pay anything for Andy Carroll

[vagildi]

Surely Ayre is regularly briefed and/or sanctions purchases?

[decky]

I'm surprised people are still shocked at FSG's recruitment policy. To be honest our last few managers over the last 20 years have been very hit and miss in the transfer market. We change managers time after time and each time there's a cull of the previous manger's players and the cycle goes on again. It has to stop. We've overpaid both in transfer fees and wages for a shitload of players and this has to stop too. The club have invested a lot of money in Dave Fallows and his team from City, isn't it obvious they will be providing Rodgers will a pool of players to choose from based on FSG's criteria and the analytics provided? This was always going to be the case

[BFM]

I can't believe people are surprised at Henry making decisions on players valuations Carroll being worth Torres and 15m anyone.

to be fair, that phrasing is not completely accurate. And the fuck up was not the logic of making 15 million more, the fuck up was the selection of the striker (Andy). Had a striker been signed who banged in 20 goals last season, this would not be an issue now

[juan1001]

Thats what sticks out isnt it ?
I mean, who the fuck is he to dictate that ? I know in essence its his money/club, but you dont delegate and then step in when it suits.
He has no fucking right to do that at all. If I were BR id fuck off.

That's the major problem here. It's nothing to do with Dempsey. The (recently hired) manager has been thrown under the bus over 2M.
The fact that Brendan made the"I'd have to be a nutcase" statement must be killing him now.

[Drake31]

IF Ian ayre is for the chop who would folk like to be the new MF of LFC??

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Thats what sticks out isnt it ?
I mean, who the fuck is he to dictate that ? I know in essence its his money/club, but you dont delegate and then step in when it suits.
He has no fucking right to do that at all. If I were BR id fuck off.

Shows you what he knows though, Assaidi a 'youngster for the future' at 24 while Allen and Borini at 21 & 22 are first teamers.

[Hij]

Shows you what he knows though, Assaidi a 'youngster for the future' at 24 while Allen and Borini at 21 & 22 are first teamers.

Does it determine Assaidi as a 'youngster for the future' in the article or are you speculating?

[El_Pistolero]

IF Ian ayre is for the chop who would folk like to be the new MF of LFC??

Who gives a fuck, like it actually matters.

For all the stick Ayre gets - and I've given him some too in the past - I don't actually think he's done much wrong. The only thing being the Carroll transfer before a replacement was found, but, well, who would've minded if we did actually get Dempsey?

The owners stopped that one, not Ayre's incompetence.

[John C]

We have owners who are trying to do that. They've made a couple of mistakes. But it was never a quick and easy job. It was always long term. And while we were crying out for this when we almost fucking disappeared, now we can't seem to find the patience to create the thing we were all screaming for.

"We don't want a sugar daddy like Chelsea" they said...

Turns out they do.

Am I right in assuming we are in a very slim minority that still have a bit of faith. Because I don't know much of an alternative to a rich sugar daddy and what we have now, unless its simply a matter of more honesty & transparency that people desire.

[BFM]

Shows you what he knows though, Assaidi a 'youngster for the future' at 24 while Allen and Borini at 21 & 22 are first teamers.

Another way of looking at it is that the Allen signing is a very, very good piece of business

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Does it determine Assaidi as a 'youngster for the future' in the article or are you speculating?

Read the message again

But a summer window which brought in three young, but significantly talented starters in Joe Allen, Nuri Sahin and Fabio Borini as well as two exciting young potential stars of the future - Samed Yesil and Oussama Assaidi - could hardly be deemed a failure as we build for the future.

http://liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/john-henry-s-open-letter-to-fans

[BFM]

Read the message again

No, I think you're reading too much into it. How can he call him a starter when he hasn't yet started?

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Another way of looking at it is that the Allen signing is a very, very good piece of business

No disputing that but basically saying Allen is a star while putting Assaidi who is 3 years senior of Allen as an exciting young potential stars of the future shows you how much the man who valued Dempsey at just 4m knows about football.

[shelovesyou]

One problem with appointing a CEO is that Henry sells himself to the investors of FSG as a visionary who finds a new fresh way of being successful. His modus operandi is to employ bright young people like Epstein who think outside the box. Werner has made it very clear that Henry dragged FSG into the purchase of LFC. Can Henry really now change tack and do what everyone else does in having a Traditional experienced CEO. Henrys  whole reputation is based on bringing a scientific approach to sport can he really abandon that and then back old fashioned football acumen and nous.Is the constant scapegoating for our benefit or just to keep his investors sweet. Is the constant attempts to portray Rodgers as a saviour for our benefit or for Henrys   investors. High finance is all about keeping the confidence of your investors . Last year FSG had to pump in a 30m loan into the Club maybe an unwillingness to do that again is behind the plug being pulled in the last couple of days.

Something to ponder that Al.
Interesting.

[John C]

I can't believe people are surprised at Henry making decisions on players valuations Carroll being worth Torres and 15m anyone.

They've had some horror lessons in football in the two years they've been owners, I'd be concerned if something like this happened again Al. Am I stupid to think it won't?

[El_Pistolero]

Read the message again

He is young (ish), and for the future, though. Just because Allen & Borini are starters already at their tender ages doesn't make him wrong.

You're just slating them for slating's sake now.

[woof]

FSG's biggest mistake was appointing Comolli. Ask any Spurs fan and they'll tell you where to stick his name

[Hij]

Read the message again

Fair play mate but it does feel like you're reading it a lot into it.  I don't know, if Rodgers wanted Assaddi then perhaps that is what Rodgers said to Henry he would be (a star for the future) when he asked for the funds? Although I cannot argue that he does say star for the future.

[BFM]

FSG's biggest mistake was appointing Comolli. Ask any Spurs fan and they'll tell you where to stick his name

Have to say that I thought he would be great for us, and he turned out to be shite

[juan1001]

FSG's biggest mistake was appointing Comolli. Ask any Spurs fan and they'll tell you where to stick his name

I think their biggest mistake is drastically underestimating how much money it will take to compete at the highest levels of the PL.

[shelovesyou]

They've had some horror lessons in football in the two years they've been owners, I'd be concerned if something like this happened again Al. Am I stupid to think it won't?

Not stupid at all, perhaps just hoping with all with all your might would be a better description. Its certainly how I feel.
Next transfer window most will have their eyes closed, fingers crossed and hoping things dont go tits, Again!

[decky]

Another way of looking at it is that the Allen signing is a very, very good piece of business

and you can't say the manager wasn't backed on that signing, or with Borini. When you add it up Dempsey's full package would have been £6m + 4 years at say £80k a week, so let's say another £12m so I'm not surprised they might have wanted to save that £18m for another player. Bottom line is they should've made this clear from the start and alternatives should've been lined up

[jah008]

and you can't say the manager wasn't backed on that signing, or with Borini. When you add it up Dempsey's full package would have been £6m + 4 years at say £80k a week, so let's say another £12m so I'm not surprised they might have wanted to save that £18m for another player. Bottom line is they should've made this clear from the start and alternatives should've been lined up

I agree. We may have got one good season out of him and then he would have become an expensive 30 year old benchwarmer that we can't onsell.
I know everyone is pissed off but whats done is done.
We all have to move on and have a little faith in Rodgers, the team, LFC Management and even FSG that they won't make this mistake again.
And that as Rodgers builds his team this season... next season we will be able to add the pointy end of the stick to a foundation he's spent 12mths creating.

[RJH]

Andy Hunter in the Guardian says similar things to Tony Barrett

Seems a bit of a hatchet job to me. For instance:

But having slashed the wage bill and recouped roughly a third of his £29m transfer spend through transfer and loan fees, and with only Luis Suárez and Fabio Borini left as a strike force, he had reason to believe FSG would deliver a 29-year-old scorer of 23 goals last season who was desperate to join Liverpool. They responded by offering Fulham less than the fee already agreed with Aston Villa – whether it was £3m as Fulham claim or Liverpool's £4m, it was still less than Villa's £5m plus add-ons – and undermined Rodgers' judgment at a stroke. It once again raises the question of who is advising FSG?

"had reason to believe" - had Rodgers actually been given any reason to believe this? Had FSG told or given him any indication that they would give him the extra amount, or any guarantee that Dempsey would be signed? And if this was the case, why didn't wasn't everything sorted at the same time as sorting the Carroll loan, rather than that going through the day before?
Why was sending Carroll out apparently more urgent that bringing Dempsey in?

It also seems to imply that Rodgers was left completely out of the loop - that he had no knowledge of the funds available or the negotiations taking place. The use of "They responded" also seems to imply that our owners were the ones doing the negotiations directly.
Unless I'm mistaken, that was in fact Ayre wasn't it? Why is his name completely absent from that article?

Also, at one point did it become clear the Dempsey would not be joining Liverpool? How much investigation went in to alternatives?
Surely there should have been back-up options in any case, due to the possibility of Dempsey not joining for factors beyond the club's control?
Or did the club send Carroll out on loan having pinned all their hopes on a player other clubs were interested in, at club they'd already pissed off? (and that's ignoring the question of whether they had the money to even meet the asking price anyway).
 

I'm not saying that FSG should be absolved of all responsibility. But like Barret's article, Hunter has completely omitted Ayre and Rodger's when portioning out blame.