Topic: Universal Credit and the crimes of it...

[gazzalfc]

Poverty in the UK is 'systematic' and 'tragic', says UN special rapporteur

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48354692

Hammond: I reject idea millions live in dire poverty

Mr Hammond said: "I reject the idea that there are vast numbers of people facing dire poverty in this country.

"I don't accept the UN rapporteur's report at all. I think that's a nonsense. Look around you, that's not what we see in this country.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48503170

This is why nothing will change in this country

[Zeb]

Mentioned this to Tepid last year on here. This is the chap who did the UN report - incidentally which the government now accepts is 'factually correct' while disagreeing on 'the politics' of it. (That was a senior DWP civil servant to MPs at a select committee hearing a couple of weeks or so back.)

Universal credit is the first major government service in the UK to become “digital by default”. That means that the application and most subsequent communication with the authorities take place online. But this approach has been deeply problematic for many of the poorest and most vulnerable people in receipt of benefits. Only 47% of those living on a low income use broadband internet at home, making it much more difficult to maintain a claim online. In addition, one in five people in the UK is not digitally literate, and nearly half of all universal credit claimants need assistance to apply for their benefits online. Universal credit is building a digital barrier between some individuals and their social rights.

Another problematic dimension has been highlighted in a recent report by the Child Poverty Action Group, aptly titled Computer Says ‘No’!”. The report demonstrates that the online environment in which beneficiaries communicate with welfare authorities makes it virtually impossible to identify, understand and challenge decisions that affect one’s livelihood. There is a real risk here that the rule of law will be replaced by the rule of web design. Meanwhile, the right of welfare claimants to an effective remedy when mistakes are made is in serious jeopardy.

But digital by default universal credit is only the tip of the iceberg of Britain’s emerging digital welfare state. Much more serious changes are happening behind the walls of UK government bureaucracies. The Department of Work and Pensions (DWP), for example, is busily automating the machinery of the welfare state, including by developing a “fully automated risk analysis and intelligence system for fraud and error”. What that is likely to mean, although hardly anyone outside the DWP seems to know exactly, is that a great many government databases (as well as private social media accounts, apparently) will be matched and analysed by new tech tools.

Guardian

Was speaking to a fulltime benefits advisor not so long back and they were saying that many of the issues they were seeing were down to people not being able to log on, not understanding how the benefits worked, nor what they had to do to avoid sanctions. They also said DWP hadn't caught up with training staff thoroughly enough but, beyond that, even understanding what was going wrong didn't allow them to override the system which is leading to temporary fixes and recurring problems every month. People most likely to lose out are those least able to keep on top of what they should and shouldn't be getting - which circles back to the problems with logging on and understanding how things work...

[Shankly998]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48887753

Tens of millions of pounds of public money is believed to have been stolen, with claimants left owing hundreds, after fraudsters targeted Britain's main welfare benefit, universal credit.

The BBC has been told of "money pouring out of the public purse" as criminals make "staggering" bogus online claims.

A loophole in the online system is exploited to make fraudulent applications and claim advance loans.

The government says it is determined to bring fraudsters to justice.

A benefits official told the BBC that in one job centre more than a third of claims are currently suspected of being bogus, while £100,000 of fraudulent activity each month was recorded at another branch.

Claims include one from "a 19-year-old with six blind children" and another saying "Harry Kane" (the name of the Tottenham and England footballer) was their landlord.

Another official told the BBC that the Department for Work and Pensions estimates 10% of the 100,000 or more advances paid monthly are potentially bogus.

This suggests that fraud rates on universal credit are about four times higher than on most other benefits.

Ironically, one of the original goals of universal credit was to save about a billion pounds in fraud and error.

[Zeb]

Been police warnings about that fraud for a while. Glad it's getting wider coverage. Paul Spicker, academic who works on social policy, has this to say on it:

A major fraud has been reported affecting Universal Credit.  Over the course of the last eight and a half years, I’ve frequently commented on the vulnerability of the UC system to fraud and error, despite repeated claims from the government – and the falsification of the business case – to claim the opposite.  This fraud is different from most, because it represents organised criminal activity that is neither attributable to claimants nor to DWP officials.  The criminals  pretend to be other people, both claimants and people who have not claimed, to register for short term loans before any checks might be made.  (This is not, for the most part, ‘identity theft’; it is personation.  A fraud of this sort is typically a fraud on the DWP, not on the claimaint.)

It should have been obvious from the outset that computer-based identification wouldn’t be sufficiently secure for the purposes of the DWP.  There was something close to an admission of this more than  three years ago, when Verify, the successor to the failed “Identity Assurance”, was cut adrift.  But the problem is not only down to poor tech.  The situation has been produced by a system that relied on online verification, rather than claims in person; that left claimants without resources for well over a month; and replaced a system capable of processing the vast majority of claims within 14 days with one that struggled to do it in six weeks, and sometimes could take as long as three months.   Universal Credit is error-prone by design.  Its vulnerability to deception is only a part of that.

Sample of his warnings about the system dating back to 2011: https://www.theguardian.com/society/joepublic/2011/jan/19/universal-credit-half-baked

[Zeb]

Really good long read by a welfare rights advisor on the changes to the social security system and their impacts: https://medium.com/@alanmarkey/keep-the-faith-6cc6fe942dfc

But this is a system that was designed with hardship inbuilt. It intended to cut a significant amount of money, roughly £2.7 billion per year , from the social security budget. While the government focuses on the number of people who will be better off, the Institute for Fiscal Studies have confirmed that 1.9 million people will be worse off under Universal Credit by at least £1000 each year with some disabled people losing over £2200 each year.

Universal Credit was designed this way. It was intended to leave people without money for the initial weeks of their claim. It was intended to pay less to disabled claimants. It was intended to ‘ramp up’ conditionality, resulting in further hardship for the most vulnerable. It was the flagship policy of a programme of reforms aimed at enforcing a hostile environment towards benefit claimants.

Even the Work and Pensions Committee have recently called the governments continued refusal to consider evidence “disrespectful” and, back in 2017, accused the DWP of “deliberately concealing” information and statistics about the early impact of Universal Credit . In fact, Rt Hon Frank Field MP, who is chair of the Committee, went further than this. It is worth quoting more of his response because it serves as a reminder of how much has changed in the last 30 years.

He said “We on the Committee are frankly sick of these disrespectful Government responses that treat us like dirt and fail to engage with our robust, evidence-based conclusions. It’s not clear they’ve even read this one. Worse, in responding this way, Government dismisses the experience and evidence of the individuals and organisations that have taken the time, and made the effort, and are working with us to try to fix the unholy mess that is Universal Credit.”

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Only a week to deliver? They must have rushed that one.

Spoiler

Full thing should be published this summer.

[close]

Hope you can get that sorted with them to get an extension on sending the info in for your mum.

The lady at CAB photocopied it when they filled it out so I photocopied those and we sent them again,she got a letter a week later informing her that a lady would be out to visit,that happened & it is all sorted,they've even upped her money.

[Zeb]

The lady at CAB photocopied it when they filled it out so I photocopied those and we sent them again,she got a letter a week later informing her that a lady would be out to visit,that happened & it is all sorted,they've even upped her money.

That's really good news, especially assessment ending up being better financially for her. Hope they've given your mum a decent length of time before needing to do it again too.

I'm waiting for my reassessment forms to land in the next few weeks - end of my only year without one since I was moved from an 8 year DLA award onto PIP. Was a nice holiday without.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

That's really good news, especially assessment ending up being better financially for her. Hope they've given your mum a decent length of time before needing to do it again too.

I'm waiting for my reassessment forms to land in the next few weeks - end of my only year without one since I was moved from an 8 year DLA award onto PIP. Was a nice holiday without.

The letter said it was indefinite but we all know that can change with a click of a mouse.

She is now waiting for her ESA back payment to land,they also tried to claim that the forms hadn't arrived,but Mam sent those recorded and whatd'ya know when she told them that they miraculously found the forms.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45892109

[Zeb]

The letter said it was indefinite but we all know that can change with a click of a mouse.

She is now waiting for her ESA back payment to land,they also tried to claim that the forms hadn't arrived,but Mam sent those recorded and whatd'ya know when she told them that they miraculously found the forms.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45892109

Heh. Yeah. Good job you had evidence. I've taken forms to the job centre and demanded a receipt in the past.

I'm still waiting to see whether I've been awarded a fair bit in back payments from a couple of court cases which have gone through. (eg Indie.) 18 months on and no-one's any the wiser about what the DWP have been up to. Combination of the two would be an extra £50 a week. People can miss out by a lot when the DWP mess up.

[gazzalfc]

https://twitter.com/dannnimj/status/1157649743352348672?s=19

Woman sanctioned for 229 days due to a missed appointment due to a miscarriage.

Fucking makes my blood boil

[TepidT2O]

Grim, just so grim.

[Gerry Attrick]

That's absolutely disgusting. This country is totally fucked. It's no regard for it's citizens and their wellbeing. Everybody has just become a vehicle for money making.

[Shankly998]

Some DWP staff would be perfect Auschwitz guards blindly following orders with no compassion for others. I've zero respect for anyone that works for them they're part of the problem enabling this fucked up system.

[eddymunster]

Some DWP staff would be perfect Auschwitz guards blindly following orders with no compassion for others. I've zero respect for anyone that works for them they're part of the problem enabling this fucked up system.

You have no respect for anyone working for the DWP because some of them are arseholes?

[Shankly998]

You have no respect for anyone working for the DWP because some of them are arseholes?

No they're part of an vicious organization that is causing immense suffering to people in this country no one is forcing them to be there. As a result they're enabling this system to continue just saying they're following orders is not acceptable when the order is deeply immoral. If enough people quit and explained the reasons why things would have to change.

[eddymunster]

No they're part of an vicious organization that is causing immense suffering to people in this country no one is forcing them to be there. As a result they're enabling this system to continue just saying they're following orders is not acceptable when the order is deeply immoral. If enough people quit and explained the reasons why things would have to change.

So to be clear, your solution is that all the DWP staff should quit?

[bigbonedrawky]

So to be clear, your solution is that all the DWP staff should quit?

I would and others I know personally already have but they know all too well, should they need a safety net it wont be there for them. If they quit they'll be sanctioned and banned from UC for upto 3 years ( or untill the Tories are forced out ).
Lying cheating and setting people up to fail is the norm, simply because it's easier to sanction than it is to find someone a job. After all those targets or KPI's must be met.

[gazzalfc]

Huyton Jobcentre this morning

[So… Howard Philips]

So to be clear, your solution is that all the DWP staff should quit?

That would give the Givernment the perfect excuse for even more delays.

And not all staff can be tarred with the same brush either.

[Shankly998]

So to be clear, your solution is that all the DWP staff should quit?

In sufficient numbers to enact change yes. Can't sanction people if there's no one there to sanction them.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

No they're part of an vicious organization that is causing immense suffering to people in this country no one is forcing them to be there. As a result they're enabling this system to continue just saying they're following orders is not acceptable when the order is deeply immoral. If enough people quit and explained the reasons why things would have to change.

But they're not all c*nts,a good proportion of them help rather than hinder.

The lady who my Mam had visit ending up getting her nearly £150pm extra.

[Shankly998]

But they're not all c*nts,a good proportion of them help rather than hinder.

The lady who my Mam had visit ending up getting her nearly £150pm extra.

I never said they were all c*nts most are average people but they're average folks who are propping up a deeply harmful organisation. The help that some DWP individuals might provide is far outweighed by the damage that's done by them continuing to allow the DWP to operate as is.

Dramatic increases in homelessness, mass hunger in the country, people forced into prostitution to survive, Claimants committing suicide after being left with nothing all caused by the actions of the DWP. The entire system is rotten and needs to be torn down and people should refuse to be a part of it.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I never said they were all c*nts most are average people but they're average folks who are propping up a deeply harmful organisation. The help that some DWP individuals might provide is far outweighed by the damage that's done by them continuing to allow the DWP to operate as is.

Dramatic increases in homelessness, mass hunger in the country, people forced into prostitution to survive, Claimants committing suicide after being left with nothing all caused by the actions of the DWP. The entire system is rotten and needs to be torn down and people should refuse to be a part of it.

I mostly agree with you but if the good people quit they will only be replaced by utter shits.

[Shankly998]

I mostly agree with you but if the good people quit they will only be replaced by utter shits.

An alternative would be that they stay in place and refuse to sanction people or override GP's assessments on PIP the DWP couldn't fire all of them.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

An alternative would be that they stay in place and refuse to sanction people or override GP's assessments on PIP the DWP couldn't fire all of them.

They need ongoing independent reviewers that can flag any employees who are obviously vindictive shits and also have the power to terminate those that are.That would cause a sea change in how cases are treated.

[Zeb]

They need ongoing independent reviewers that can flag any employees who are obviously vindictive shits and also have the power to terminate those that are.That would cause a sea change in how cases are treated.

Nah. Simple solution. DWP accept the evidence that sanctions do not work. They've had it for a very long time now. It's purely Tory thinking which has prevented going back to the beginning with the idea. Poverty being a result of moral failing and all that BS. They have dialed back on sanctions in some places under criticism - still far too high and with way too many getting hit with them. It's getting the political bandwidth to overturn the whole dumb system which is the problem.

[Jiminy Cricket]

So to be clear, your solution is that all the DWP staff should quit?

Na. They are just following orders.

You are nit-picking. Many people will have a visceral reaction towards those working within a system designed to be cruel. And Nazi comparisons aside, although it might not be totally fair, it is perfectly understandable to expect better from them. Although for the workers to fear ending up being on the other side of the counter if they should leave their job is rather understandable, neither is it a good defense for working for such an organisation. 'Just doing their job', is problematic.

[ShakaHislop]

Capita in U-turn over claimant death case

A benefit assessment company that threatened legal action to reverse "reputational damage" after a claimant died has dropped its case.

Victoria Smith died months after her personal independence payments were stopped following a Capita assessment.

It was told to pay £10,000 over the way it handled her case, but planned to dispute this at Telford County Court.

Capita has now decided not to contest the judgement and has apologised "for any additional distress".

Ms Smith, from Market Drayton in Shropshire, was agoraphobic and had fibromyalgia, which left her body in constant pain.

The 33-year-old died in July 2018, four months after a Capita healthcare assistant assessed her and found she did not score a single point in the test, leading the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) to stop her PIP benefits.

The week after her death, a social security tribunal found she had been eligible.

Her mother, Susan Kemlo, pursued legal action against the firm for maladministration and was awarded £10,000.

On Tuesday, Capita said it stood by its employee and argued it did not have a chance to defend itself, leading to "significant reputational damage".

In a U-turn, the company said on Thursday it had "considered this exceptional case on an individual basis [and] decided not to contest the original default judgement".

Mrs Kemlo said her daughter's death had "destroyed my world".

"Our family will never be the same again," she said.

Mrs Kemlo was supported by the Unite union, which applauded her "courage and tenacity... in pursuing justice".

"We hope that Capita and other companies contracted to assess benefit claimants on behalf of the government will now adopt a new and more sympathetic approach," the union's head of community, Liane Groves, said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-49281391

[Fortneef]

Wheres the best place to get advice about UC and other benefits - if you are fortunate enough to be able to pay for the advice?   

[Jiminy Cricket]

Wheres the best place to get advice about UC and other benefits - if you are fortunate enough to be able to pay for the advice?

For UC, I suspect that the best source of information is actually free, from Citizens Advice. But I'd wait for someone who knows the answer for sure.

[Zeb]

Wheres the best place to get advice about UC and other benefits - if you are fortunate enough to be able to pay for the advice?   

No experience/knowledge of paid for, sorry. Know local law centres appreciate a donation from those who can to fund things for those who can't. This is one database of advice services local to your own postcode but benefits advisors at CAB etc tend to be excellent: https://advicelocal.uk

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Wheres the best place to get advice about UC and other benefits - if you are fortunate enough to be able to pay for the advice?

I would be very cautious about paying anybody for the vast majority of benefit advice. I guess if you had a situation where the issue was legally complex and a great deal was riding on the outcome it might be worth instructing a solicitor to get a barrister's opinion. Otherwise I would follow the link that Zeb gave, with the slight caveat of saying that you probably want to be following where the funding is going. The 'specialists' will be in different places depending on your area - sometimes they are still with the CAB, sometimes they are at a Law Centre, sometimes they are employed directly by your local authority. The good news is that those organisations will be transparent about whether they are giving generalist or specialist advice, and if it is the latter that you need and they can't provide it they should point you in the right direction.

[ToneLa]

For UC, I suspect that the best source of information is actually free, from Citizens Advice. But I'd wait for someone who knows the answer for sure.

When I ran into UC woes (like them not paying me for 6 months) I hit the fuckin wall and can happily vouch for Citizen's Advice doing their best - massively underrated

Also emailed BoyCott Workfare (http://www.boycottworkfare.org/about/) to basically vent and got some useful stuff. It isn't UC exactly... but I got like-minded replies that were sympathetic and useful (there was an element of that at the time, they threatened to take my benefit away if I didn't do it - easy answer. "You're not paying me anyway"!)

My MP was boss. I'm a huge advocate of sharing your political problems with those who are paid to represent you. Mine is Labour and managed to put a phonecall in to get my issue sorted, but at the same time I also know I went fucking spare and saw seeing him as a last resort.

It's hard to give an answer to "where for advice" without knowing about what

It IS out there. I am happy to answer anyone (I said ages ago, and still stands, my door is open if anyone wants to PM me with woes)

End of the day I would be loathe to pay for benefit advice - seems a joke. I paid for nothing I've mentioned in a bad bad situ, don't be a mug, I pour my heart out for free out of necessity and in my experience anyone else who truly knows Universal Credit on either side of the advice desk would do the same

[Fortneef]

Thanks. Yes I could ask a lawyer, but they don’t know the ins and outs of the benefit system. They are going to ask an ‘expert’ and then add £200 an hour. I guess I’ll ask CAB when I need to and give them a generous donation.

[idontknow]

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

They're good across all benefits, plus problems, interviews etc. Despite the name it's a couple of lawyers who run it.
Have a look there so you've an idea what's  going on, but i would always tell someone nowadays to go to CAB and get someone trained to fill in the forms to fill it in.

It used to be you could fill in benefit forms yourself with a little care and a few keywords. Nowadays if you think you understand what they're  asking for, you're fucked. You put in the answer the dwp advlce advises you to put in, you're fucked.

That benefitsandwork sight I linked to above actually consults legal people, and themselves obviously, as to what a question  might actually mean.

Good luck, and i don't mean to fill you with horror, but get someone to help you, and be prepared to fight.

[ToneLa]

Update from me! I am in work 6 week initial contract but I make more in a week than UC pays me monthly (which works out at like 72p per hour). Feel like I'm at the end of Shawshank... crawled out a river of shit smiling

So I reported the change to them. 2 days later:

You need to come in to explain what you're doing to find work.

? LEAVE ME ALONE! I don't want or even qualify for your money anymore!

The Guardian just had a survey for anyone else on it, I sent them a massive long missive about all the pay cock ups and having to sell things to survive and blah blah I'm trying to move on with my life, but it was good to potentially get one more shot in at the DWP if the Guardian like my story (Private Eye and the BBC did, BBC even let me on TV to kick off at Gauke about it so not sure why they wouldn't publish my dire warnings such as "they won't tell you the advance is a one off" and "they won't explain your rights and instead give you commitments to sign without letting you look over them first")

[Son of Spion]

I was in Bootle this morning and someone has given the Job Centre on Stanley road a new paint job.

Checked the Echo website and the story is here -

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/we-not-submit-merseysides-powerful-16912617

[Shankly998]

I was in Bootle this morning and someone has given the Job Centre on Stanley road a new paint job.

Checked the Echo website and the story is here -

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/we-not-submit-merseysides-powerful-16912617

From the above article

Therese Coffey is the new DWP boss
A snapshot of her record on the Theyworkforyou website shows the following trends.

-  She consistently voted for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms (also known as the controversial Bedroom Tax)

- She has consistently voted against raising welfare benefits in line with prices

- She has consistently voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness of disability

Seems like another McVey

[bigbonedrawky]

From the above article

Therese Coffey is the new DWP boss
A snapshot of her record on the Theyworkforyou website shows the following trends.

-  She consistently voted for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms (also known as the controversial Bedroom Tax)

- She has consistently voted against raising welfare benefits in line with prices

- She has consistently voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness of disability

Seems like another McVey

With that kind of voting record she could jump ship to the Libs.

How Jo Swinson voted on Welfare and Benefits #

Almost always voted for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms

Consistently voted against raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices

Consistently voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability

Consistently voted for making local councils responsible for helping those in financial need afford their council tax and reducing the amount spent on such support.
 
Almost always voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits.

[Trada]

There is talk of a vote at Conference that Labour will promise to scrap UC and not reform it because its so toxic now.