Topic: Liverpool's Midfield

[killer-heels]

^ Agree. Definitely could do with one more quality midfielder.

[Solomon Grundy]

^ Agree. Definitely could do with one more quality midfielder.

Yep. Another dynamic midfielder like Henderson. Hopefully one with a better goal-scoring record as well.

[Halcyon Lissome]

We obviously are polar opposites on this Halycon. I felt our problems yesterday began with an unbalanced midfield and that led to constant side to sides and knocking the ball wide. Our pressing ead affected as our best presser, Hendo, spent much of the game in his own half. Gerrard was too forward, playing to Villa's tactics as wanted to get tight to him anyway. Coutinho was very disappointing, especially his shooting.

We controlled before but after Villa scored it was gifted to us.

Passing the ball side to side or changing it out wide is not because of an unbalanced midfield but because the opposition were defending with all their men behind the ball. The centre of the ground is packed and you're trying to move them and catch them out. The tactic itself is ideal but in the final 3rd our passing was not quick or creative enough.

Although they were helped by Villa's tactics, it's pretty inarguable that the midfield dominated. Even Mignolet had more passes than their midfielder Cleverley. Henderson was never going to play as high as he usually does when Gerrard is tasked as the sole holder. Gerrard going forward more was for tactical reasons in attack (they were man-marking him and it's useless to have another body in defence seeing as the opposition have no intention of actually attacking) and not having anything to do with defensive shape, which would be relevant here in terms of Henderson pressing higher.

Simply: Gerrard going forward had almost nothing to do with Henderson not being able to press higher. The only instances it would really come into play is when we have the ball in attack and Henderson is already stationed higher up the pitch, we lose it, and in that transition Henderson would be pressing higher up the pitch. In the 4-2-3-1 set up, Henderson's job was always to sit with Gerrard, so it had nothing to do with his partner going forward when we had it. Moreover, pressing the ball matters when we're trying to regain it - we didn't have that problem against Villa as we had the ball more than we might ever have it this season (~75% possession)

[Fromola]

I think either :

                                                Gerrard

                                 Allen                        Henderson

As a midfield trio or :

                                                Gerrard

                                 Allen                         Henderson

                                                Sterling

As a diamond.

No space then for two or three of Lallana, Markovic and Coutinho. And if we go more 4-3-3 it's hard to accommodate Balotelli and Sturridge.

[Solomon Grundy]

No space then for two or three of Lallana, Markovic and Coutinho.

I wouldn't play any of those in the three, but all three are capable of playing at the tip of the diamond or on the flanks in a 4-3-3 formation. I don't really want to see us play the 4-3-3 formation with out Daniel Sturridge in the side though.

[Solomon Grundy]

And if we go more 4-3-3 it's hard to accommodate Balotelli and Sturridge.

It's not really, Balotelli is quite comfortable playing on the left of a 4-3-3 formation. Leaving Sturridge to play through the middle.

[Halcyon Lissome]

Yep. Another dynamic midfielder like Henderson. Hopefully one with a better goal-scoring record as well.

Strootman/Vidal. It would piss the Mancs off too.

[Solomon Grundy]

Strootman. It would piss the Mancs off too.

Great player but, unless we're prepared to pay stupid money for him, he wont be coming here.

[jonab]

The main problem with gerrard and hendo in the holding roles is that it becomes static. They run in eachothers space, and it becomes to much of a distance between the attack and the midfield.

           Gerrard

Henderson - Allen

           Sterling
           
imo the best combination.

[The Las]

Just a few of things from me.

1. I had doubts about how fluid the team was going to be with the introduction of the 3 players who have had little time together - they have to play sooner rather than later, but I thought this was maybe a little too much too soon.

2. The decline of Steven Gerrard is becoming more apparent with each passing game. It continues to be the Elephant in the room, but other than his immense passing the lad is off the pace without the ball massively.

Villa have come to Anfield and played exactly the same each time - we don't seem to have an answer unless its a set piece. They will be the blueprint for teams this season so we have to figure it out.

On a positive note the two full backs look like they will be here for a long time. both aggresive, with bags of pace, can defend and have great technique so all bodes well on that front.

My message to Rogers would be this, the League is our bread and butter the rest is a bonus. The league team must take priority what ever fitness gambles get dressed up.

[b_joseph]

No space then for two or three of Lallana, Markovic and Coutinho. And if we go more 4-3-3 it's hard to accommodate Balotelli and Sturridge.

There doesn't need to be space for any of them. There are enough games for them all to get chances...the day when we have to leave one of them out of the squad, without it being a fitness issue, will be a glorious one.

Sterling will be managed, so even though he is irreplaceable for us. His age dictates that others will play instead of him at times because of it.
Same goes for Coutinho who isn't yet ready to be the influence on the game that he probably will be at 25-26 years of age.

[jonab]

This should be the last season Gerrard starts as a first-choice, i would like to see him being phased out of the team during this season. We will NEVER be a good possesion side as long as gerrard is in the team. Not patient enough, looks for the long ball rather than passing it around keeping pace at the ball.

[Solomon Grundy]

This should be the last season Gerrard starts as a first-choice, i would like to see him being phased out of the team during this season. We will NEVER be a good possesion side as long as gerrard is in the team. Not patient enough, looks for the long ball rather than passing it around keeping pace at the ball.

Playing Gerrard isn't the problem. Playing him as a midfield pairing is. Play him in a 3 man midfield or don't play him at all imo. He just doesn't have the mobility anymore.

[Adeemo]

           Gerrard

Henderson - Allen

           Sterling
           
imo the best combination.

In my opinion we need to primarily use the diamond formation, with that combination as 1st choice, t least until we're up and running. I would like to see Coutinho have to fight it out with Raheem to play at the tip of the diamond, Lallana compete with Allen for his role, with Can and Lucas backing up Henderson and Gerrard. Up to Christmas I feel Markovic will be best served as an impact sub.

For me, if we had to rest Sterling yesterday, we should have gone:

             Gerrard

Henderson      Lallana

            Coutinho

   Lambert    Balotelli

[MrBoywunder]

The diamond, for me, is our best option. It protects Gerrard, allows him to play his game and brings the best out of Sturridge and Balotelli who play their best when there's someone up top next with them. It also gets Sterling central.

[Cid]

Gerrard
Henderson Allen

Gerrard
Henderson Lallana

Gerrard
Henderson Coutinho

One of the above, depending how Lallana beds in.  We are awul with two deeper midfielders.

[Clint Eastwood]

Gerrard, Henderson and Allen for me. I've already said why I like that trio many times but if you factor in Coutinho's drop in form it makes more sense. Must be said, Coutinho's not really been played in his best position recently. Didn't really hit me yesterday that Allen was dropped - is he injured still? He's been one of our better players so far this season and I'd like to see him keep his place.

Honestly, I know I knock Lucas a bit, but Lucas, Henderson and Allen could do well. He's dire when he's played next to Gerrard.

[mkferdy]

I haven't watched Lallana enough but every time I have seen him play it has been on the left of a 4-3-3 has he ever played in midfield before? For me the signings the manager have made have been much more for a 4-3-3 rather than for the diamond. I do agree the diamond is the way forward though. Need Allen back quickly he plays an important role, he is able to transition the ball quickly injecting tempo moving the ball forward quickly which we really lacked yesterday.

Wonder if Lallana could play on the tip of the diamond competing with Sterling? I would go two up top even with Sturridge out injured. Would give Borini a go with Balotelli until Sturridge is back.

[MrBoywunder]

Gerrard, Henderson and Allen for me. I've already said why I like that trio many times but if you factor in Coutinho's drop in form it makes more sense. Must be said, Coutinho's not really been played in his best position recently. Didn't really hit me yesterday that Allen was dropped - is he injured still? He's been one of our better players so far this season and I'd like to see him keep his place.

Honestly, I know I knock Lucas a bit, but Lucas, Henderson and Allen could do well. He's dire when he's played next to Gerrard.

Allen was injured playing for Wales. Bad timing considering Can is out too.

[Adeemo]

I haven't watched Lallana enough but every time I have seen him play it has been on the left of a 4-3-3 has he ever played in midfield before? For me the signings the manager have made have been much more for a 4-3-3 rather than for the diamond. I do agree the diamond is the way forward though. Need Allen back quickly he plays an important role, he is able to transition the ball quickly injecting tempo moving the ball forward quickly which we really lacked yesterday.

I don't think Lallana has played that deep as a regular midfielder too often. I just think it would make the best use of his qualities, see him on the ball much more, allow him to break forward from deep with his dribbling abilities and add an extra goal threat to our midfield 3 that Allen doesn't have.

[Scott0908]

                        Gerrard
           Henderson           Allen/lallana
                         Sterling
If Allen is not fit id put lallana there.

[Clint Eastwood]

Allen was injured playing for Wales. Bad timing considering Can is out too.

Ah, I do love International Football.

[TheUSSR]

Wish Can wasn't injured. Would've liked to seen him in the deep role with Lallana and Coutinho on the side and Markovic at the tip against Boro.

[penga]

Would like to see Coutinho/Lallana on the side of the diamond where Allen plays. Leave Sterling at the tip because he provides penetration that the other 2 don't.

[irish musicman]

Gerrard, Henderson and Allen for me. I've already said why I like that trio many times but if you factor in Coutinho's drop in form it makes more sense. Must be said, Coutinho's not really been played in his best position recently. Didn't really hit me yesterday that Allen was dropped - is he injured still? He's been one of our better players so far this season and I'd like to see him keep his place.

Honestly, I know I knock Lucas a bit, but Lucas, Henderson and Allen could do well. He's dire when he's played next to Gerrard.

problem is mate that everyone played with Gerrard in a 2 looks dire, where as when Lucas Henderson and Allen played together we looked really good.

[Redman0151]

Gerrard hasn't looked the same since "the slip" IMO, his set pieces haven't been anywhere near the same standard and he's not creating chances as well as he was.


At this point it's starting to feel like Rodgers has to keep setting the team up in very specific ways just to accommodate Gerrard and cover up his weaknesses, at some point I feel very soon the negatives are going to outweigh the positives of having him playing every week.

Hoping we pay for a top midfielder either in January or next summer.


For me our best midfield four is Sterling, Henderson, Allen + 1 more

[thegeneral3018]

I've hardly watched lallana at soton,  do people think he's a better option than Allen alongside hendo in a midfield diamond?

[Haggis36]

I've hardly watched lallana at soton,  do people think he's a better option than Allen alongside hendo in a midfield diamond?

Really depends what you're looking for from that midfielder. In terms of pressing and workrate, Lallana is pretty comparable to Joe. I don't know that he's necessarily as box-to-box, and I don't think he's as good defensively (though the stats may well say otherwise, I'm not sure) but if you're looking to play a high pressing game Lallana can do all the things that Allen does but is much more creative and more of a goal threat when he actually gets the ball.

I don't think his stamina is as good as Allen or Henderson - last year I think he actually covered more ground per game than Henderson (someone will no doubt have the table) but he was often subbed off around 70 mins much in the way Coutinho is for us sometimes. Whether that was to rest their best player or because he was consistently tired, you'd probably have to ask Soton fans.

[HaskoLFC]

When playing the 4231, the 2 in the middle have to be complete specialists at their respective roles, usually one enforcer, defensive minded player and one who keeps play ticking over or a box to box.

I look to Chelsea to see where this works, Matic the enforcer and Fabregas ticks it over brilliantly.
Or City with Fernando and Yaya.

In my opinion, Gerrard is neither of these and it for this reason it fails. The reason we were so successful when Gerrard was out was because Lucas is the enforcer and Henderson the box to box.

I think our midfield 3 should depend on the opposition, if we're facing a reserved defensive team which parks the bus like Villa yesterday then we need to expect we'll have a lot of possession and against such an opposition Gerrard doesn't work as well as he usually looks long.

Without a shadow of a doubt, the 442 diamond is the best as seen by us winning 7 out of 8 of our games when playing this formation. In such a case, I think Gerrard thrives hendo has to play and there can be flexibility between Allen and Can, depending on form..current form Allen is incredible and has to start.

[Notayesman]

Playing Gerrard isn't the problem. Playing him as a midfield pairing is. Play him in a 3 man midfield or don't play him at all imo. He just doesn't have the mobility anymore.

Doesn't have the short passing game either.

[jonab]

How about a midfield three consisting of:

Allen

Hendo - Lallana


Opinions on that possible scenario?

[Red-Soldier]

I would like to see Gerrard rotated a bit more this season, injuries permitting.

We've got to start looking beyond him as a regular starter as he is getting on now. 

If we play a midfield 3 I'd like to see Allen, Hendo, Lallana/Can.

In a diamond it would be Gerrard, Allen, Hendo and Sterling.  It's good that we have options when everyone is fit.

We look a far better team playing the diamond with 2 up front, but we played well in a 433 last season without Gerrard, destroyed Spurs etc.

[Red Genius]

Option wise we've got all the tools to set up pretty much however we would like - Allen (circulator) Gerrard (orchestrator) Henderson (box to box player) Can (a bit of all the above - plus physically imposing) Lucas (anchor) - we've got the choices there.... and Brendan has done fabulously well to construct the squad to have those options. Interesting to see how it develops, we didn't use the diamond straight away last year,  be interesting to see if he juggles the approach again.

[JAHBletch]

How about a midfield three consisting of:

Allen

Hendo - Lallana


Opinions on that possible scenario?

I would really like to see Allen as Libero again.  Tried it when he first arrived and looked nervous but reckon he is growing to be able now.  Always creates space for himself and has that Xabi gift on knowing when to stay short, change pace etc.

Just my opinion like - Also Can is def box to box for me as well

[StrivingForPremiership]

Taking form into consideration, it has to be a midfield three of Gerrard, Henderson and Allen. These three should be used in most big games I feel to give us the most protection and most balance. However, I would also like to see Lallana right in the middle of the field, in a role similar to that of Ramsey's at Arsenal. I wouldn't even be against using Allen in a deeper role when Gerrard needs a rest. Despite being short in height, he's actually quite strong for his size, tracks his runners and is always willing to get stuck in for a tackle. His recycling of possession is good too, and would allow Lallana and Henderson to buzz around ahead of him. I also can't see Allen attempting any stupid long passes which find a target once every five attempts. But yeah in conclusion, my current preferred midfield combination is Gerrard deepest, with Allen and Henderson in front alternating with each other in relation to who supports the attacks or counter attacks.

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

For most PL games
                               

                     Gerrard

          Can                  Hendo


Can and Hendo to play box to box to support Gerrard in a deep playmaker role. This setup will mark Gerrard's lack of legs and defensive awareness and allow him to play long accurate passes from deep. Can and Hendo will function as ball winners and runners, covering lots of ground all over the pitch.

And has Lallana EVER played as a central midfielder before? Like ever?

Suddenly he is a CM who should play in a 3 man centre midfield?




             

[Halcyon Lissome]

And has Lallana EVER played as a central midfielder before? Like ever?

Suddenly he is a CM who should play in a 3 man centre midfield?

Our 3rd CM in that midfield is generally a high-work rate AM and Lallana has played that. Is it really that hard to see him play there when Coutinho has?

[StrivingForPremiership]

For most PL games
                               

                     Gerrard

          Can                  Hendo


Can and Hendo to play box to box to support Gerrard in a deep playmaker role. This setup will mark Gerrard's lack of legs and defensive awareness and allow him to play long accurate passes from deep. Can and Hendo will function as ball winners and runners, covering lots of ground all over the pitch.

And has Lallana EVER played as a central midfielder before? Like ever?

Suddenly he is a CM who should play in a 3 man centre midfield?

I wouldn't play that midfield ever. I don't know where people get Can's defensive work rate from, I'm yet to see it. I'd rather Allen in there for tough away games, and Lallana in there for games we should be dominating and creating more than the other team. I don't think Lallana has played as a pure CM, but he's definitely a CAM type. I'm absolutely sure he could do a role alongside Henderson and ahead of Gerrard. He has the technical ability, awareness, vision, creativity and work rate to play there. He truly reminds me of a Ramsey type of player. But yeah, definitely needs to be central somewhere in the team, where he will have the most impact for the team.

[alexthomas1989]

How about a midfield three consisting of:

Allen

Hendo - Lallana


Opinions on that possible scenario?

Think this could be absolute dynamite given a chance. So much aggression in their work off the ball between those three. Think we'll see the best of Lallana as part of a midfield 3 or left side of a diamond.

Hendo's long range sprays coming on leaps and bounds now as well. If he can begin to provide that to Gerrard ish level i'm struggling to see SG
being an automatic pick myself (which I still feel like he is at the moment) Thoughts?

[StrivingForPremiership]

Think this could be absolute dynamite given a chance. So much aggression in their work off the ball between those three. Think we'll see the best of Lallana as part of a midfield 3 or left side of a diamond.

Hendo's long range sprays coming on leaps and bounds now as well. If he can begin to provide that to Gerrard ish level i'm struggling to see SG
being an automatic pick myself (which I still feel like he is at the moment) Thoughts?

Yeah this. I suggested it in a previous post as well. Despite being small in stature, Allen is actually quite strong on and off the ball, shields it well, distributes short and accurately instead of losing the ball so often attempting long passes. He's a very good recycler and I've noticed he always tracks his runner, even if he can't keep up. That midfield three would be immense I'm sure of it. Absolutely full of energy, commitment, creativity, vision, work rate and pressure. In a diamond also you could bring Gerrard back in as the deepest, with Henderson and Allen in front, with Lallana in behind the front two. Or Lallana could be alongside Henderson and allow Sterling or Coutinho to play in behind the striker. I just really feel our best midfield performances come in a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond formation or a 4-3-3.