Topic: Round Table Discussion - Anzhi v Liverpool

[royhendo]

Well, you saw the team and you thought 'it's gonna be a loss this, and hopefully not a hiding', because, well, inexperience up front, and a few selections that caused you a wee worry. But as it transpired, it wasn't a hiding. But that said, it felt disappointing, because they seemed to be there for the taking at times.

So - discussion. 2nd string goes to Moscow and you feel disappointed not to leave with a point. I guess that's not bad. But there are talking points.

Team shape/emphasis/balance
Did you feel they were starting to look a little better integrated? The funnel was pretty effective early on, and when players pressed, at times they looked pretty well choreographed. But as expected, in the early set up it had the classic Euro away feel of a 4-6-0, but without the quality when any o that six punctured the line.

It was interesting to see how Anzhi's line started to drop off around the 20 minute mark, because the back six or seven players were doing a good job of circulating it, and not giving their forwards a sniff of an interception. They started to retreat a little, and we started to emerge into the game from there... but then of course they killed us with a sucker punch on the stroke of half time. Switching of in classic style and conceding at the cliched 'worst possible time'.

Individuals
Anything to comment on from the predominately second string?

Coates - was he done up like a kipper for their goal?

Morgan - I felt proud of him and felt Henderson let him (and himself) down in the 1st half after their exchange. How did he look to you?

Flanagan?

Coady?

Jones - that first half save from Eto'o - the flamin' galah!

Henderson and Shelvey as a pairing?

And Suso...

Over to you.

[Yorkykopite]

First of all the pitch. I know it doesn't belong to the robber-baron who owns Anzhi, but it was disgraceful to play an important European fixture on a Russian dung heap. Immediately you saw it you knew that the skilful players would suffer most. They did.

I thought, given the circumstances, that our young lads did ok. I've stopped wondering which Shelvey is going to turn up these days. I'm sure his manager has too. You have to take it game by game. In this game it was the 'boss of it all' Shelvey - at least in the first 45. Not only was he the best player on the pitch. Every other player on the pitch knew it. He was very good. There was even a majesty about the way he strutted around. At half time Hiddink clearly told his players to stop gaping in awe at the bald-headed one and close him down. To a point it worked. And eventually the shitty, heavy, cheapo pitch got the better of Shelvey. He got tired and faded.

The team did very well in the first half before committing suicide in the last minute. You might blame Coates and Jones. You'd be wrong. The damage was done before the ball even reached Traore (who then supplied a top class piece of skill to finish). For the first time in the half the central midfield lost its discipline and stood off the ball in a horizontal line. On the wide shot you could smell the danger.

In the second it was a nice idea to send on players who could move the ball a bit more quickly in the last third. The trouble was that Suso, Assaidi and Pacheco had the shifting earth beneath their boots to contend with as well as a very disciplined defence. We never threatened. Not really.

Fringe senior players? Downing played pretty well I thought - at least in defence. Henderson is still treading water. He still doesn't want to turn on the ball. He's not a bad player but he's miles behind Joe Allen. Absolutely miles. As for Joe Cole - those ciggies have caught up with him, as they were always going to. A great first 10 minutes. Excess baggage after that. The reason why he didn't do anything more inventive with his last touch of the ball was that he was too exhausted to even try.

 

[Juan Loco]

I was in the middle of commentating as they scored that the performance and shape reminded me very much of the Chelsea away performance after Kenny returned. A line up of containment, fairly one paced but ultimately working. Henderson had his Meireles moment, he fluffed it. Neither are Liverpool class. Joe Cole certainly isn't Maxi Rodriguez.

I thought it was interesting how pragmatic we were. Clearly the players had been drilled only to press once they got up to the half way line. We sat very deep the first half, and both wingbacks did a good job with keeping the shape. Pleasently surprised by the lack of rustiness from Flanno, and that he showed a bit of courage on the ball. He was happy to receive it under pressure.

All the youngsters did well I think. Coady and Flanagan took a bit to grow into it, but were playing with a confidence by the end of the first half, then the goal hit.

The frustration for me was in the first half that we didn't have one player who, as Roy said, could break the lines. When we played that Chelsea game we had Steven Gerrard, who could carry the ball at pace. Shelvey was the best player on the pitch for at least the first half, but he can't turn an entire team like Gerrard could. I wonder how much different things would've been if Assaidi was playing in place of Cole? It's a position he apparently played in the Eredivisie, and he was the sort of player we lacked. I always felt we were picking the ball up too deep and that we were never likely to score in the transition. Someone like Assaidi in that position might have allowed us to inject pace into the attack. As it was we always had to build up slowly and rely on our ability to manipulate the ball to work the space around their defence.

I thought Morgan had a strong game. Only the half chance, but his all round play certainly seems to have improved with a few months out on the right at reserve levels. I still wonder whether Ngoo's superior physical ability would've been better suited to tonights game. That is to do with how we set up though rather than how Morgan played. He certainly warrants another chance.

[Vulmea]

Thought Rodgers was right to pick the type of side he did may have changed a couple of faces (still dont quite get the absence of Ngoo) but no problems with the policy.

Thought we lacked belief especially second half - there was endeavour and good passing but we look like we know we can't score and that lack of belief is pissing me off - there was not the type of exitement/adventure you'd expect from such a young side - and that passionless continental approach isn't what intersts me however skillfully it was played - it reminds me of the cannon fodder which used to come to anfield play well and get spanked

thought Suso did very well but Shelvey was equally bad second half as he was good first - his head looked to have gone rather than his legs

also thought Carragher was very good he even kept the ball and passed it on several occasions when under pressure much to my surprise

Jone's save from the Traore header I thought was  a lot better than it was given credit for  - it was not straight at him and it was almost behind him before he could get to it

Wisdom has started 9 on the bounce? I think he needs a break.

Downing got up and down well and towards the end even actually started to look dangerous
 

[Aristotle]

Well no one can take it from Rodgers. The man is an innovator like no other in the business. When teams out there are going with a Totti, Fabregas or Messi as the 'False 9' out Brendan takes it to a whole new level. Well that's what I'm hoping the plan was because what I saw tonight was, yet again, Joe Cole playing the 'False 10'. His game was pretty much summed up in two individual moments.
1) When he recieved the ball brilliantly. He turned his marker and I found myself rising from my seat in a classic 'come on! that's it fucking make something of it!' and he had Downing on the overlap he had Morgan (iirc - dodgy stream) and he not only passed the ball in the direction of neither player, he played it far too short so it was picked up by the only defender, effectively squandering a potential 3v1 on goal.
2) That goal attempt. If there ever was a time to take a deep breath, compose yourself and get shit done that was it. For a player with over 500 professional games at club level and 56 international caps that was as hopeless as you'd like. He could've placed the shot, he could've gone past the 'keeper, he could've chipped him even gone for the '5 hole' (English term completely escapes me at the moment). Yet Joe Cole looked physically in pain simply getting to the ball then all but closed his eyes and put his boot through it. Morgan, Pacheco or Suso does that, it's understandable. In the freezing cold with everyone's eyes upon you and you hesitate for a moment and just hope to hit the target. That I can get behind, that's all part of being a teenager and being thrown in at the deep end. But when the same player who did this does that then I really don't know what to do. I don't give a flying fuck how many injuries he's had - there's something wrong with his thinking.

And on the topic of thinking I'd just like to get it out of the way before I start being positive (or try to). Yet again I am left thinking there's something off with Shelvey. I know we should all get behind the lad and his talent at times shines through but there's something massively off. In the first half I thought to myself Rodgers must've had a word. Shelvey was composed, self-assured, his passing was good, he was taking on players - I remember one incident when I thought to myself when Shelvey had the ball for about 40 seconds and thinking they couldn't get the ball off him ... upon reflection maybe they didn't want to after our first half performance Shelvey away from goal was their best defensive option. This was the Udinese & Young Boys Shelvey. The one that scores goals the one that gives you hope someone not named Suarez will score a goal. And then their goal came and "let's fucking do this" Shelvey became "what time's X Factor on" Shelvey. There was one moment where I couldn't believe my eyes and for the first time I really noticed what Yorky has frequently pointed out in regards to Shelvey's athleticism. He had a head start he was running towards the ball as two Anzhi players, they both had time to turn around and casually jog, stripping Shelvey off the ball as he fell down and complained to the ref. He had time to pick up the ball, turn and cross. He did none of it, he couldn't be arsed chasing it and when he did he came up shockingly short. And again I find myself questioning the lad's mentality and drive. He could've done brilliantly but he faded out, he stopped caring and he looked very hurt. If there's choice of betting on players getting carded I'm sure there are a lot of people who put down large sums of money on Shelvey after the hour mark on the 87th minute he didn't dissapoint with a terrible tackle and another 'yeah whatevah' response followed. The type of "fuck off all of you, I know I'm better than you" one would find in abundance in Roy Hodgson's 23 man England squad.
His free kick at the end summed up his past games perfectly. He pushed Henderson out of the way, he was going to show them all how good he is. Fuck the haters - I'm scoring this one. Then he was teed up for the free kick by the man he just pushed and subsequently abused. It's a good thing I'm not much of a betting man, I was sure beyond belief the ball would end up for a throw in. The Henderson flick was bad but Shelvey's technique when striking the ball is so good that I was left red faced as he sliced it about 15 yards wide for a goal kick. But he didn't care that he'd missed and wasted the last chance of the game. Gerrard would've hung his head. Suarez would've screamed and punched the ground and been furious at himself because he knows he's better than that. Not Shelvey though. He just shrugged it off, convinced no doub that he'll do better next time and if not, there's always another game.

As for the goal. That was a collective group fuck up and a detrimental loss in concentration. Henderson not closing down the midfielder's pass, Coady positionally off to intercept it, Carragher's attempt to cut off the pass instead of letting Coates take his man and get behind him to cover (there were 8 seconds left of the half, where else would he have to go?), Coates being beaten by a 1/10 first touch (and to Traore's credit it was well done and he positioned himself very well, Coates usually pulls his man in and clears it with his meaty stilts a la Agger) and then Jones does literally the worst possible thing in that situation. If he stays down and a LFC player manages a touch, the ref blows it for half-time. If Coates closes down his man all Jones has to do is cover the angle. If Carragher makes the overlap he will slide in to block (he has for 16 years so it's hardly a surprise). All Jones has to do is trust his defenders and keep it out of the net to let the clock run down. So he does the absolute worst possible thing, he gives Traore (who had a roughly 170° shot angle) an open net to shoot at and positions himself so far out that he will never, ever get a hand to the ball. Jones did brilliantly against Eto'o previously - this however was an absolute shocker.

As for the rest. Wisdom looked more naturally when defending as a CB a future in that position no doubt. He was also remarkably composed, fooling defenders and crossing the ball at the edge of the area when he went on the attack. He was however quite concerned with his instructions from previous games and often looked confused. He stayed wide when he should've cut inside and vice versa. And when that's the biggest fault in a teenage defender's game over 90 minutes, you've got yourself a keeper.
Flanagan wasn't bad, he looked a little off pace but that's no doubt down to injuries. However the lad has broken the heart of poor old Cafu. The position the Brazilian turned into an artform was all but sodomized by the young man. A defender at heart, it would suit his career advancement best if he only went over the halfway line to switch halves.
Carragher was alright, got involved with play and the rest he's getting by sitting out league games has done his form a world of good. Still contributes relatively little to the overall play, but it's his best form in non-rivalry games in years so I won't complain (too much).
Coates was limited. He kept Traore at bay for the most part but was let down by the fundamental part of a 3 man defense, agression. If you have a big man like Coates who is strong and good in the air you need to surround him with agression. If Carragher had been charging every second ball that fell and Wisdom positioning wasn't as confused Coates could've been key. But alas it felt much like the big man was an extra presence in the back when one was needed much further up the pitch.
Downing - not as bad as when he plays right winger. I can't be arsed analysing his performances any longer so that'll have to do.
Coady I liked. He kept it simple, he bossed the 1v1 situations in midfield but partnered with Henderson and (when it suited him) Shelvey the U-21s captain looked a bit too eager to follow instructions. He kept things simple, in fact I'd say he'd warrant a shot in the FA cup with Allen in front of him. But if he had been a bit more assertive and more demanding of the ball he would've had a bigger impact. It was clear to all, even the Anzhi players who mainly ignored him. This was the performance of a youngster living his dream, taking no chances and going off at full time thinking 'I hope I helped the team today'. An admirable quality but in a team that lacked fight was not what we needed in this situation.
Henderson - Should've shot it at least, should've scored. Quite typical of him actually. Do so well in everything to do with the build up and choke when he had to deliver. The raw talent is there but if Rodgers doesn't want to 'educate' him then we should just cash in come January, for his career and our budget.
Morgan - Quite paradoxical. I've been one of his critics. I think his play is far too limited to warrant a starting position at Liverpool's first team. He tried to prove that he has his merits (a clear result of him playing right wing for the U-21s) but in being more involved with play, his should've been assist aside he was out of the game. He dropped deep to be involved with play but lacked pace and trickery on the ball when he was. A similar problem to Coady. He was so determined to be of help to the team, when it would've been better overall if he'd been supremely selfish and stayed offside for 80% of the time on the off chance we got through.
Suso - Well if there was any doubt previously, it should be gone now. Suso centrally is the way forward, Suso on the wing is a waste of everybody's time and the lad's talent.
Pacheco - Poor kid. Given the message he's not as good as Joe Cole, he tried to do something but his head wasn't in it. He had 15 minutes to show the boss what he's made of and he played a different game to his reserve team self. Maybe it's why he's not getting chances. He impresses with the reserves team but when he steps out of that stadium tunnel he loses his focus and drive. Going for the memorable in an attempt to be noticed when he's better off playing it simple.
Assaidi - plagued with the same problem as ever before. A tricky winger with pace and no one to cross it to. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Still convinced he's up for his starting league debut at Stamford Bridge.


All in all: Thought we'd get thrashed we didn't. Youngsters again doing themselves no harm and coming out preferable to the old timers. But to be a bit blunt. Fuck. All. That. Football is supposed to be fun and I want to see my team do good. I know times are tough and there are gradual improvements and signs of a positive future. But when I see professional footballers not giving a fuck, hanging their heads in disbelief and for the umpteenth season in a row see a cup side full of has beens and star dust I can't help but feel a bit mehhhh over it all

[royhendo]

Before we move on, I just want to say this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usEcJwrNHAg

[Yorkykopite]

Before we move on, I just want to say this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usEcJwrNHAg

"With no money in our coats"? I don't think so.

[BabuYagu]

The first few posters seem to have covered everything I was planning to say. However I think credit where it is due, Downing was a vast improvment on the absolute dog shite he has served up so far in his Liverpool career. He had a solid if unspectacular game at left back and seemed to get confidence from knowing he was turning in a good performace and started attacking players in the final 10 minutes. Maybe if Rodgers can slowly build up his confidence which seemed completely shot at one point, we may have a player who can either do a good job as an attacking full back or command a decent fee.

Shelvey disappointed me today for all the reasons Aristotle said above. There was also one moment in the first half where he played Wisdom into danger that I didn΄t like. I don΄t like balls being played to defenders when someone is already charging them down anticipating the pass. He was very very good in the first half but didn΄t turn up for the second. Bizarre.

Joe Cole was perhaps as frustrating as any time I care to remember in a Liverpool shirt. Apparantly he recently said, straight faced, that he is trying to fight his way back into the England squad. I honestly would have him on the bench for the reserves watching Adorjαn play in that position. Just to show how far off international level he is right now. Every minute we give Joe Cole now is simply wasted. We should be playing the likes Ngoo, Adorjαn, Pacheco.... people who may actually still have a career here or at the very least, we can put the spotlight on them and hope to get above the paltry £100k valuations we seem to get for talented youths like Ince, Kacaniklic etc

I honestly cannot get over how bad Cole was. He just got £100k paid into his bank this week to do that. Why did he start ahead of Assaidi? Assaidi has yet to have a poor game when started in Europe. Cole has yet to NOT have a poor game.

I think Suso gave a masterclass to all candidates to play the most advanced midfield role. He absolutely changed the game when he came on in every way except the score (unfortunately). Suddenly we were playing between the lines, skipping past men, playing disguised passes, switching play in one or 2 passes. It really was delicious and I would love to see him get a real go at that position some time soon. Maybe he should switch with Gerrard? Is he too lightweight to play that role in the Premier League at the moment?

Anyway I enjoyed watching that. Felt like a preseason friendly and once I saw the lineup I decided to forget about the result and just focus on individuals. I seen things from all the young players (bar Pacheco) to give me encouragement. I also hope for all the talk of Henderson taking his chances, eventually he does just that. He does all the busy work well and will get a handful of chances to standout. The 2 times he did this game he screwed them up and unfortunately that is all people will remember.

[Garstonite]

A totally out-of-nowhere comment here, but just a thought/rambling:

I remember the venerable Mr Henderson compared our set-up and style to being similar to Mourinho's Porto and it got me thinking. Now, I'm no expert, but it's interesting if Rodgers - who we know worked under Mourinho - admires his philosophies on the game.

IF so, let's think for a moment. Our ideal is to dominate the ball and to do so, you need players of superior technical ability. But you look at that Porto side - their midfield - Costinha (the holder), Mendes (a clever player, but also a grafter) and Maniche (another 'technician' to borrow from Brendan's phrasebook, but also a crafty - often cynical - footballer).

Mourinho's sides - prior to this Madrid team - have always been "mechanical". But they're all successful. And in each of his midfield triumvirates is not only a "holder" but quite often also a "destroyer". Makelele and Essien. Cambiasso and Stankovic (or Motta).

Ultimately, Jose and Brendan have very different ideas in how they want their team to play, but you need a foundation and Mourinho's strength is building a bloody strong one and you can't argue with his record. That's what we lack at the moment in my opinion. That's what we lacked in 2006 before we signed Sissoko: a hugely flawed footballer, but an important cog in the machine. I know we have Lucas in the ranks and his return can't come quickly enough and Allen's stats prove he's capable on that side of things, but:

1) We're getting killed on the counter
2) Our shape is all over the place at times
3) Shelvey, Sahin and Gerrard are good pressers of the ball, but all have lapses

I guess my point about Mourinho is that even a top side challenging for honours needs a tight midfield unit. Tactical discipline takes a greater precedent to a player who can control the ball and complete 90% of his 80 passes. Ideally we'd have all-round individuals capable in every aspect of the game, but just how rare are those players? I think we're lucky with Lucas and Allen but just how vulnerable do we look without one of them? It's frightening.

[No666]

May I just add this:


Anne Williams ‏@annewilliams96
PLEASE BRING FORWARD KEVIN WILLIAMS INQUEST - e-petitions http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/40925  please help I would luv to have my inquest before I die.

It's now a race against time. PLEASE do all you can - we need to get this up to 100,000 signatures quickly.

[royhendo]

Terry Venerables? Now proudly living large in his gig as Yorky's avatar.

It's a bloody interesting point that Garstonite, because Mourinho now finds himself confronted with the opposite problem (and the one we faced ourselves) - coping when Alonso isn't there. He's apparently beeen riled at Modric for lacking the tactical insight/discipline and mental strength offered by both Alonso and Khedira. As you say, it's a rare blend to find, but when you have it, it's powerful.

Juan made the point a month or two back that we might end up with a trio of grafters in that area a la Portugal's trio in the Euros, but it's not really playing out that way, is it? He prefers Sahin to Henderson as a rule, and he sits Gerrard in there, and maybe that's no longer Gerrard's key strength. It definitely underlines why he was so keen to get Allen in though, doesn't it?

The point about Mourinho at Porto was more around the 'rest with the ball' point, and the little moment of triage that happens when we win it back. The players you mentioned were crafty in that respect, but also had Deco ahead of them offering the clearest of world class options when that point came, as well as Derlei (when fit) to win the long balls (where he later moved heaven and earth to get Drogba, of course).

I'm rambling now. But there are rumblings that we're still looking at young midfield prospects in the tittle tattle on the web, and you can see why, for the exact reasons you outline.

[Garstonite]

Terry Venerables? Now proudly living large in his gig as Yorky's avatar.

All very true as ever mate - I'd also argue that's what AVB's Chelsea lacked when he tried introducing Romeu but that's a tangent on top of a tangent.

Anyway. Bump ^

[Kochevnik]

Just a note on Traore's goal - I think it would be quite harsh to blame Coates for it. 

He might have done a tiny bit better, and you could certainly make an argument that had Jones stayed on his line with Carragher making up ground it would have been a much more difficult finish, but sometimes you just have to tip your hat to a quality turn and move on.

I recall about 5 (?) years ago in a tight game against Chelsea we were beaten by a Drogba turn of similar quality.  Carragher was absolutely right on him, marking him as tight as humanly possible, and he controlled, swiveled, and fired a shot into the upper corner past Reina all in one incredible turn.  When a striker makes a move at that level no defender is going to keep the ball out of the net.  You just have to hope he misses the shot or the goalkeeper makes a save or something to bail you out. 

Coates didn't get that, but I don't blame him for that goal, myself.   Heard the commentator saying he was slow to react, or something like that, but I'm not having it.  He had good position, but the ball in was good and Traore's touch inch-perfect to take it over his head and still keep it close enough to get to before the keeper.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

As the also rans and minnows of Liverpool football club with their hilariously upbeat manager head off to Russia for a fixture in a famous City the fans are divided and become more so. There aren't just sides any more - there are a series of groups - all Liverpool fans of different ages, geographical locations, tempremenent and varying length of support for the club. If banded together and placed in a Roman style auditorium you wouldn't be surprised to hear people selling their wares.

"Otters noses, Wolf Nipple Chips, Dromedary Pretzels, Jaguar Ear Lobes, Tuscany Fried Bat!! Albatross! Get your albatross here!!"

"Oh are you the Liverpool Fans then?" someone would inquire, intent on joining the new Franchise about this wonderful Soccer thing they have seen with a giant framed portrait of the manager.

"Fuck off." someone would shout. "We're the Fans of Liverpool FC. The Liverpool fans are over there..."

The club is in a bit of a mess. It's easy to pretend it isn't and it's easy to pretend everything is on course.

It is in a mess. It is in a mess. Just so you get the point. It is in a mess.

This can't be blamed on the new owners. After all they saved us from - well.. who knows what? It can't be blamed on the manager - he's only been here ten minutes. It can't be blamed on the fans no matter how young, foreign, fickle or new to 'soccer' they are.

To be honest. It's just something that came to pass over 20 odd years since Liverpool ran the roost and was envied across the world. A series of manager came and went and every single one of them - excepting Roy Hodgson - added something to club and were honoured in their own ways. Our style of football has changed in differing ways but largely has been around keeping it on the deck and trying to move the play. Except Hodgson of course. But let's forget about him. You can't blame the lad - who wouldn't want to manage LFC and it helped him get the job he actually wanted.

So. Here we are. 25 years of wasted chances. 25 years of slowly eroding 'us'. It went so slowly that most of us didn't realise that we were 'us' any longer. Lots of patience has been shown and lots of tears of anger, anguish and bewilderment have been shed. So many hundreds of post match pints with friends and acquaintances that tried to unravel what had happened interspersed mildly with days and nights and weekends of pure unadulterated joy, pleasure and harking back to the good old days.

We're looking a bit like a cruiser that's done a great job in countless battles but that's had a Captain that spent all the maintenance money on ale and women so that the paint is corroded and worn and the decking is mishapen in the way that only a ship at sea in the Mid-Atlantic in all weathers could be.

Look at her from a distance and the good ship Liverpool still looks as mighty and proud as she ever did. She crashes bravely among the other regal ships in her line and fords through the waves. From a distance. Look closer and a lot of the support is getting - like all other fans in the UK - priced out of the market. Look closer still and those that sing and shout and make noise and urge the team on are getting quieter and quieter. The long term arguments with some and the short term arguments with others just sap that tiny little piece of will every time. Those that urge people to be patient and to be loyal and to be... Well. You get the picture.

And people are. And have been. For decades. And longer.

But now some are stepping slightly back and looking at the obscene wages, the money thrown away and wasted with gay abandon. The idiots revolving around the game and the 'issues' surrounding it. Fans got involved not because they wanted to be fighting politically every week. Not because they wanted to rail against each others every week. Not because they wanted to be embroiled in and defending against and arguing for ever more ridiculous 'scandals' that are raised week in, week out. They got involved as a fan to watch their team play football. Kick a ball about. Enjoy the game. Talk to their mates. Have a nice time. Support their team. Enjoy themselves.

The enjoyment seems to be getting eeked out of the game squeeze by squeeze. It's not about fans any more (if it ever was). The identity of most clubs fans is so disparate and spread out and the arrogance and lack of empathy for those fans by the clubs is so great that it's not even about football any more. It's getting to the stage where supporting a football club is similar to liking brands of computers or cars or fishing boats or something. It's a social past-time rather than a sport.

So. Here we are. A divided fan base. An optomistic manager. Disinterested looking players. No apparant backbone - no desire not to get beat - no desire to win. 2 wins in the league and bottom half of the table.

So.. Here we are. A chance to shake off some of the gloom. Get a good win under our belts and secure the group and the next round.

So.. here we are. Again. Another loss. Another set of optomistic words from the manager. More silence from the owners.

At least the kids got a kick about. At least some of the fringe players got to play.

At least many of our fans spent a fortune getting there and had that to show for it. At least they'll come home after seeing the team do its best and fail. At least we've only got an away game to Chelsea on Sunday.

I'd like to be optomistic. But that ship has sailed. Every day this seems to be drifting further away.

I'm sure if we do win on Sunday then those that see problems and have their worries will be seen once again as whining twats. Be optomistic - only SIX points til fourth place. Easy. Easy. easy. easy? I'm not so sure.

[Yorkykopite]

I'm sure if we do win on Sunday then those that see problems and have their worries will be seen once again as whining twats.

What makes you think it will take a win?

[Yorkykopite]

Terry Venerables? Now proudly living large in his gig as Yorky's avatar.

Yer bastard! 'Common Sense' by Terry Venables? That's just not right is it?

[Armand9]

Pre-match, expecting BR to put out a B team (and thankfully he did) I wasn't expecting much and if we could get a draw out of it i'd be pleased. As it turns out, we deserved a draw but got sweet FA. However....

The most striking thing i got out of that game (albeit a bit sad on my part really) was Joe Cole - jeez, fuck me that was diabolical. Should never wear our shirt again and why the fuck he wasn't the first guy subbed*, fuck knows unless BR was 'putting him in the window'. If that was the case, he's now worth about 5p. I don't like to put players down or overly dwell on the negative but his performance got to me watching that game. Pay him off, loan him out, whatever, never let the guy on the pitch for us again. I don't think he's a twat or anything, have no grudge against the guy and wished he'd been a success but he gives us absolutely NOTHING. Please can we just find a way to off load the guy.

Apart from that, loved Susso's cameo, lad came on and did well, if he'd got his head up a few times he'd done even better.

*On the point of the subbing, why BR decided Joe was best left on instead of Morgan is beyond me. If Morgan had someone in behind him that could actually keep/control/pass (any of those 3) the ball with any regularity maybe he'd been able to cause a bit of damage, his movement and workrate was good up to the subbing - at the least, he couldn't possibly had played worse than Joe (one superb take down doesn't a great game make).

[Garcepticon]

I think that team was perfectly set up to grab a 0-0 and that would have been an excellent result. We were not going to score in that game, that much was painfully obvious. I watched Tottenham against Maribor, or bits of it, last night and the contrast between us and them is frightening IMO. Especially on the counter.

Our transitions last night were fucking woeful, we were never going to break down a packed defence, the interchanges happened a little but Cole was never going to provide a spark of anything at all. Furthermore, we weren't going to score from a cross which irks me because that should be bread and butter for any football team. Unless you are superb at cutting through the centre of teams and can guarantee yourself goals through that then you need to have a threat out wide. We certainly can't interchange and get combinations in and around the box so we should at least have a slight threat from wide positions.

Rodgers needs to put some serious thought into our wide play, Sterling (1 in 12) and Suso (0 in 6) never look like putting the ball in the box when played as inside forwards and equally they don't look like scoring themselves. Going wide doesn't have to mean slinging it into the box, we can always cut it back or play a dangerous low cross which Suarez only needs to get a touch on.

On the subject of goals from wide areas, Downing and Flanagan didn't really have anything to aim at nor did they get into good attacking positions. Having said that, I was incredibly impressed with Flanno, he was completely solid throughout a very mature performance I felt.

One final thought - what happens when defenders learn to stand on Suso's left foot?

[the 92A]

I think Rodgers will get his chalk board out and look at what went wrong for Traore's goal and hopefully lessons will be learnt. While some are great at dissecting every move and good on them, I watch football and while I appreciate the individual acts of brilliance, or the mistakes, I tend to go away from games with impressions, broad strokes rather than intricate detail, and on that judgement I was fairly happy.


We all know the script, this season we've lacked some quality players that can make the difference but have played some good football without a real cutting edge. Role on January and with Lucas back and hopefully some decent additions I'm hoping for things to look a bit better towards the end of the season result wise. But when I heard the team I was worried, I thought a real drubbing could be a possibility, this really was Rodgers flying without a safety net.


I was made up with how we played first half considering the team we had out we played a perfect European away bar the mistake in injury time and crucially it wasn't seat of the pants, heart attack stuff but controlled stiffling of a reasonable team. Second half we asked them questions without really looking likely to score but look at the players out there and this is a great education they're recieving, I know we need some real quality to fly but I'm happy Brendan is laying down some decent foundations here lets not destroy them before the buildings built

[Gnurglan]

Team shape/emphasis/balance
I don't like that we played 5 at the back. Why did we do it?
I don't like that we stood high but with no real pressure on them. IMO that was what caused the goal. We left ourselves open for that kind of ball. Static defending and with space behind the CBs. Simple maths. And we offered no real threat on the counter-attack. Not impressed with that game plan. And since we didn't even stick with our normal formation, what exactly did we try to do? The only thing that surprised me was that they didn't expose us more times.

Individuals
In this game, I think our tactics held back the individuals. Thought Shelvey and later Suso tried to get us going in attack. We gave very difficult tasks to Suso and Pacheco. Both Morgan and Cole saw little of the ball and we changed both. That's quite a lot to ask of Pacheco and Suso, to come on and fix things for us in those circumstances.

We can say Coates made a mistake for the goal. Same with Jones. But I don't see it that way. That ball was always going to come. And we had no real plan to get back in the game if they scored.

That's what I found so disappointing. We seemed to travel there to perhaps get a point. If we couldn't get it, so be it. Not impressed with the mentality there (from our staff).

[Funky_Gibbons]

We all expected to lose, we did, but the kids done us proud. For that team to travel to Russia, on that pitch, in those conditions and against a very good team and give them quite scare is pleasing. I think Hiddink said summed it up quite well with:
 

Hiddink
'They had a young side but that does not mean they were not experienced as some of those players play frequently in the Premier League.
'They were good players, skilful players who were tactically good. They tested us but we also have some young players so it's a good result for us.
'We didn't finish it off in the second half, we had two big opportunities, but it was an interesting game on a very bad pitch. They tested us so we have to be happy with this result.'

The goal for me was more down to Jones coming of his line. I think Carragher had Traore covered and would have stopped him getting his shot away. Jones had no reason to come out there but he can still be pleased with his night work.

Flanagan looked steady and solid. Must admit that after his last game against Blackburn last season when he almost got himself sent-off, then contrived to get Doni sent-off, I thought he might have struggles mentally but he come back last night and played really well.

Morgan was busy without looking a threat but made a great pass to Henderson for the one-on-one. Coady was great. It’s easy to say he had three centre backs but he protected them very well. Dare I say he could become Lucas’ understudy?

[itsaknockuyt]

*On the point of the subbing, why BR decided Joe was best left on instead of Morgan is beyond me. If Morgan had someone in behind him that could actually keep/control/pass (any of those 3) the ball with any regularity maybe he'd been able to cause a bit of damage, his movement and workrate was good up to the subbing - at the least, he couldn't possibly had played worse than Joe (one superb take down doesn't a great game make).

I couldn't work this one out either as Morgan had done surprisingly well up to then. All I could think of was that he'd maybe done enough during the game to convince BR that he is worth a run or at least a greater involvement in the squad in the coming games (especially given the lack of striking options). Probably clutching at straws with that one but can't come up with any other reason atm.

[L666KOP]

After seeing the other result in our group I find myself wondering whether it would have been prudent to take the first team to Moscow, again we were faced with a somewhat poor team moulded by an Oligarch. I'm convinced the first team would have beaten them, and we could have sent the scratch team to Italy, leaving us the relative formality of qualifying by beating YB at Anfield.

Hindsight doesn't work like that though does it?

Yet again we slipped to a valiant defeat, where all our players were magnificent, and could have done no more. Which leads me to the next point, if, as we keep hearing, the players can do no more what exactly is the problem? Who can 'do more'? Because the referee, or the woodwork cannot be blamed everytime. We have a side that keeps a fantastic shape with the ball, but does a 'butter in the desert' impression without it. Just why is this team underperforming to such a degree, and I know this was the scratch side, but the big hitters are equally as guilty, as has been mentioned earlier, we get cut apart time after time on the counter, is Lucas really that important that we can't manage without him, our destroyer. Or are the players 'just not getting' the way they're being asked to play.
We only ever look like scoring (Norwich apart) from set pieces, or when 'kitchen sinking' towards the end of games, and usually when trying to rescue it.
Now don't get me wrong, the team sent out did really well on the whole, Shelvey was MoM in first half, 2/10 in the second. I don't think anyone was below a 7/10, but tellingly for me, no-one was above it either, and it's usually the 8 or 9 out of 10 guys that generally do something to win you the game, and we just don't have enough of them.
Overall MoM was a toss up for me between Carragher or Downing. I was quite impressed with the performance for the most part, they did really well, but I don't know why, were we really only a goal behind the cash rich Russians of Anzhi, or were they that poor they were only a goal better than Liverpools reserve's and misfits.

***Joe Cole not counted above, I ignore him now.***

[Anywhichwayicant]

I certainly wasn't expected a hiding. For me, a 0-0 draw or sneak a 1-0 win, worst case scenario, a 1-0 defeat, which we eventually arrived at. For all the complaining about the squad sent out there, I thought the starting eleven was a lot better than had been suggested, save for the attacking force, the team we went out with was a more than capable team.

I had few concerns about conceding, it was the other end that had my great concerns, and ultimately, despite one or two reasonable chances, my concerns were warranted, yet understandable.

Downing and Flanagan were excellent in the full back roles, as he has proven on numerous occasions, Downing provides a much needed defensive know how, and I was pleasantly surprised with Flanagan going forward.

[Zeb]

Good to see Coady getting his debut. And doing a decent job too. He's obviously shown enough to be given a chance in the first team. Will be interesting to see whether Rodgers pushes him that much further over the next few months. There's an opportunity there to stake a regular place in the first team squad, even if only as an option from the bench. Like seeing Morgan getting games too. Have to say that those young lads give everything for the shirt - one thing Rodgers has got them believing is that they can get games if they put in the performances. It's good to see that.

The comments from both himself and Rodgers before the match seemed to only highlight the difficulties Henderson's having at the moment demonstrating the attacking side of his game. Feel sorry for the lad, because he's got the ability to do what's required but at times it's like watching a mogadon powered Ray Wilkins. He's not even playing particularly badly for the most part. He's just offkey at moments when a bit of incisiveness, a bit of vision, a bit of willingness to look away from playing the very safe, 'someone else's problem now' ball would really pay off for both himself and the team.

Hiddink said after the game that we controlled the game. And it's hard to disagree with that in the main. Which isn't too shabby for the team Rodgers sent out there. Still, it's another loss from a bit of a sucker punch, another instance where the control hasn't been converted into much going forward and another opportunity for knives to be sharpened by those inclined.

[Garcepticon]

We all know the script, this season we've lacked some quality players that can make the difference but have played some good football without a real cutting edge. Role on January and with Lucas back and hopefully some decent additions I'm hoping for things to look a bit better towards the end of the season result wise. But when I heard the team I was worried, I thought a real drubbing could be a possibility, this really was Rodgers flying without a safety net.


I was made up with how we played first half considering the team we had out we played a perfect European away bar the mistake in injury time and crucially it wasn't seat of the pants, heart attack stuff but controlled stiffling of a reasonable team. Second half we asked them questions without really looking likely to score but look at the players out there and this is a great education they're recieving, I know we need some real quality to fly but I'm happy Brendan is laying down some decent foundations here lets not destroy them before the buildings built

I'm absolutely all for the optimism, and yes we are lacking upfront - but there are 30 points up for grabs between now and January. December is a crucial month for our campaign, there are 18 points and most of them should be deemed very winnable. Rodgers absolutely cannot share this attitude, can he?

You say that we played a perfect European away without the mistake, the perfect European away ( I've always felt ) should have a clean sheet and the team should have a threat with which they can score. I agree that without the lapse from Coates, Coady and Jones we would have had a perfect half but this team is completely liable to defensive lapses as it has been in almost all of our games this season, so we can't dismiss the mistake because it is, I think, part and parcel of a Liverpool performance these days. Take this into account and it is quite clear that we will need at least a goal to earn ourselves a point - where was our goal going to come from?

As I've stated above we didn't look like scoring from wide positions because, a, Flanno and Downing didn't do enough, b, we didn't have anyone in the box (which makes Flanno and Downing's job harder). Could we have scored from a wide position? On that performance, no. How else were we going to score? We weren't. Not one bit, not through direct passes, not through interchange around the box - not from anything. That is a massive worry, someone like Ngoo would have been a good target for crosses but Rodgers refuses to try him (unless there is an issue I am unaware of.) BTW, Joe fucking Cole? He is knackered after 10 minutes! If we are going to play a deep line we need to be able to break quickly to exploit they leave when they push up, who was going to exploit it? It certainly wasn't Cole and with Morgan pressing for two he wasn't going to have the energy for it. This meant our transitions were woefully slow, we would turn over the ball and build through the 'phases of play' but never look like we had that final brick, because of the aforementioned weak wide play and our lack of penetration through the centre.

It is the same in league games, playing Suso and Sterling as inside forwards doesn't look like bringing us match winning attacking play in their combined 18 appearances they have got one goal between them. Sahin has scored once in five league appearances and hasn't really threatened the edge of the box in the past couple of games, despite that Gerrard remains deep and doesn't look like scoring.

To break from this doom and gloom, we do have options - Gerrard is better when he is closer to goal, Sterling assisted Suarez against Sunderland and Gerrard against Norwich from a RW position. Sahin was player of the season in 2011 when playing from a deeper position in the Bundesliga.

Rodgers has options and I really don't think we should be sacrificing 10 games waiting for January, he needs to start using his resources more effectively.

[Vulmea]

"Fuck off." someone would shout. "We're the Fans of Liverpool FC. The Liverpool fans are over there..."

Liked the post, dislike the idea that because we play a reserve side a defeat is acceptable, I think thats what is sticking in my craw the most. Whatever side we end out should play with a belief it is going to win. They wont always win but they have to believe in themselves and play like they believe it.

The idea seems to be that because we are 'in transition' its ok - its ok for the defeat not to hurt, its ok because we have a list of excuses - we can wait until January and it'll be ok - bollocks thats the best part of 3 more months of self inflected mediocrity.

There's a difference between understanding Rodgers needs time and accepting everything thats wrong. Part of Rodgers role is to inspire and motivate the side to belief in themsleves and that we will win. Rhetoric is one thing getting the players to believe it is entirely different. The idea that yesterdays game was tremendous just does not sit well. We need to believe that winning every 5 aside is vital to LFC.

We need the team that steps across the line to believe it is going to win, (believe its going to score would be nice) anything else is unacceptable and the buck stops with Rodgers for that (pun intended). Writing off half a season because we failed to sign Clint Demsey isn't on the list of acceptable excuses, nor is losing Kelly, Lucas or Borini.

I think thats why the side currently reminds me of those good continental teams that used to come to anfield play well and get spanked because their objective wasn't to win it was to 'play well' , those sides never believed they could win and they never did. I've been struggling with the idea that the side lacks purpose and penetration but ultimately I think it just lacks belief - as an entity it just does not have the determination to overcome the obstacles in front of it. whethers thats the woodwork, bad refs or the opposition.

there are a couple of individuals who play with belief but most I just dont see it and it goes for the fans too - our home results in particular have been a disgrace.

you see the belief in teams that come to anfield now that they can get a result, its palpable , whether its in style of play or body language or the crowd its there - fear has been replaced by belief - the walls of the fortress have been breached and that breach is growing and growing. Somehow we have to close it - we have to learn how to win games all over again - its not rocket science - its strength of character and a determination to win rather than not to lose- it's about trusting yourselves to play a more attacking style. getting more players forward- finishing the chances we do make, not taking no for answer. Rodgers said he wanted the 90 minutes at Anfield to be the longest any side faced, that they would dread it - it just has not happened because  we carry no real threat.

anyway cheers Andy -  LFC fans 4ever!

[Yorkykopite]

I think thats why the side currently reminds me of those good continental teams that used to come to anfield play well and get spanked because their objective wasn't to win it was to 'play well'

Once again Vulmea that's a grotesque parody of both the current Liverpool side and the teams that used to be vanquished at Anfield in European competition. The objective is - and was - to win. I've never heard anyone of an any importance suggest otherwise. Until you abandon this idea that Rodgers thinks winning is less important than playing attractively then you'll fail to do justice to him and the arguments of those Liverpool supporters who wish him well.

Incidentally, which European outfits are you talking about when you say they came to Anfield to play well, not win? And how do you know?

[MobileBayRed]

Some random thoughts, since there has been such a wonderful discussion of the game already in this thread by people who know more than I:

1) To echo what has been said, I watched the game and Suarez came to mind.  Suarez would punt his grandmother to win a loose ball.  I dont think I have ever seen many professional athletes who leave it all on the field of battle the way he does.  Yes, he wears his emotions on his sleeve, but for 90 minutes, the match is his life.  He fights harder than any player we have.  If the rest of our squad would show half as much passion for the game and half as much determination to win, we would be unstoppable.

2)  I thought the 3 at the back was a good move for Rodgers, since he was playing Coady at holding midfield.  He gave Coady his first taste of football at this level, but didn't hang him out to dry against Traore and Eto'o.  I also think Coates was in there to counter the height of Traore, unfortunately it was his speed that gave us the most problem.

3) I am still very confused about the way Rodgers sets up his midfield three.  There has already been enough ink spilled about whether Gerrard is playing in his favored/most effective position; HOWEVER, yesterday I became even more confused.  Why was Henderson mostly playing in front of Shelvey?  This got me thinking, does Rodgers prefer his playmaking midfielder in the middle?  I think Shelvey saw the midfield stripe more times yesterday than he has over his entire career.  Can't remember him in the box on any specific occasion.  Every time he picked up the ball he had to carry it 25 yards before he even got into an attacking position.  Is this a tactical move by Rodgers or just simply a mistake?

4) For me, after yesterday's game, it is apparent that Shelvey should be playing on the front line, and Suso should be playing in the forward CM role. 

5) I thought Morgan looked good yesterday.  He was never going to be given much service, but I thought he moved well, played well with the ball at his feet (the one-two with Henderson was quality) and really looked frisky up top.  Think he could have found a goal if we had surrounded him with Assaidi and Suso instead of Cole and Downing.

[Vulmea]

Once again Vulmea that's a grotesque parody of both the current Liverpool side and the teams that used to be vanquished at Anfield in European competition. The objective is - and was - to win. I've never heard anyone of an any importance suggest otherwise. Until you abandon this idea that Rodgers thinks winning is less important than playing attractively then you'll fail to do justice to him and the arguments of those Liverpool supporters who wish him well.

Incidentally, which European outfits are you talking about when you say they came to Anfield to play well, not win? And how do you know?

I've been at pains to point out I want Rodgers to succeed, I like the man and think he is genuine - the idea that being critical means I do not wish him well shows a terribly black and white way of thinking and an absurd intolerance to criticism.  There are things he needs to improve on. Inspiring me, let alone the team is one of them.

If you have the impression that we are playing with a belief in our ability to win games or even to score then good luck to you with that. I would not for a second try to tell you how to think, you are entitled to your opinion and to voice it.  I just dont agree with you.

In terms of european teams the list would be considerable (and incidentally not just continental but our own league as well) but if you dont recognise the description then I'd guess any attempt to explain further would be pointless. I think United and Chelsea have benefited from similar attitudes effectively winning games before they've even set fot on the pitch.

[the 92A]

I'm absolutely all for the optimism, and yes we are lacking upfront - but there are 30 points up for grabs between now and January. December is a crucial month for our campaign, there are 18 points and most of them should be deemed very winnable. Rodgers absolutely cannot share this attitude, can he?

What attitude?, We're short of strikers and have been lacking our best defensive midfielder that is just reality, how do we get to the implication that this means we should just roll over sorry can't follow the logic. Can't imagine Rodgers giving the dressing room talk 'listen lads FSG wouldn't let me buy a striker before the end of the window, and Lucas is fucked for a few months, go out and if you can keep the score down to a one nil loss you's have done well'. Recognising we have limitations doesn't mean you give up.


Just because we've leaked a few goals doesn't mean it's going to happen every game. I'll restate, we played a perfect european away bar one mistake again reality, we controlled the game until one lapse of concentration, it's hard to generalise  too widely from that.


Of course we Gerrard and Suarez would have given us more bite but when they're knackered for Chelsea or worse one of them gets injured, people would cry why is Rodgers taking them to Moscow on Thursday. Rodgers made his decision who to play from the resources available to him and it's not as simple as just playing his best eleven. managing a football team involves taking things into consideration things we don't even know about.


We go out to win every game, but if you think we're going to do that this season you'll be very disappointed and the danger is you can miss some of the groundwork that's being laid.


I

[Yorkykopite]

I've been at pains to point out I want Rodgers to succeed, I like the man and think he is genuine - the idea that being critical means I do not wish him well shows a terribly black and white way of thinking and an absurd intolerance to criticism.  There are things he needs to improve on. Inspiring me, let alone the team is one of them.

If you have the impression that we are playing with a belief in our ability to win games or even to score then good luck to you with that. I would not for a second try to tell you how to think, you are entitled to your opinion and to voice it.  I just dont agree with you.

That's fair enough. And as I've said on many occasions before I'd be bloody worried if you did agree with me! We have fundamentally different views on how the game should be played and how victories are secured. Vive la difference. Best not parody the other bloke's opinion though. That's all. Your 'opponents' in this argument are just as keen for Liverpool to win as you are. They don't see victory as just a nice add-on.

 

In terms of european teams the list would be considerable (and incidentally not just continental but our own league as well)

I'm not asking for the whole list, just a couple of examples. And also an explanation of how you know they came to Anfield to "play well" but not win.

Should be easy for you to supply that. As you say, you've got a "considerable list" at your disposal.

[Eeyore]

If you have three games in 8 days, why not make three changes mid week and then two or three changes for the the third game that way you end up with continuity but the majority of your squad getting a rest.

[Aristotle]

I've never heard anyone of an any importance suggest otherwise.

I em inzulted boi theze zuggestions

[Vulmea]

off the top of my head I remember Benfica regularly turning up to be bounced we seemed to have a sign over them - and panathanikos  central european teams seemed to be suceptible to reputation proceeding us didn't we spank an Austrian team way back maybe I'm misremembering - are you genuinely arguing that teams didn't come to anfield beaten before they started or are you trying to make some other point which defeats me? I rarely remember these teams parking the bus, or at least no more so than the any other teams at the time, they came they didn't change their style of play, they kept the ball, played it on the deck and they had no penetration, no belief and they lost. Oh and I always rated that Stromgodset side........

[Fromola]

If you have three games in 8 days, why not make three changes mid week and then two or three changes for the the third game that way you end up with continuity but the majority of your squad getting a rest.

Normally that'd make sense, it's usually what Rafa did to manage league and CL, but with it being away in Russia you can see why he left pretty much the first XI at home when the squad lacks depth. We should still get through the group.

Also to factor in that Gerrard is probably best playing one game a week now, Suarez could do with being wrapped up in cotton wool, Allen's been run into the ground having to do two jobs and played a lot of football, we have to manage Agger with his injury record and Sterling's still only kid. Johnson and Reina still recovering from injuries as well. So i'd say it's right to leave them behind at Melwood. That only really leaves Enrique, Skrtel and Sahin.

[Yorkykopite]

are you genuinely arguing that teams didn't come to anfield beaten before they started

Of course they did. We were too fucking good for them. But that's not what you were arguing. You made the specific point that teams came to Anfield not to win, but just to play well. This was tied to your theory that Rodgers had the same limited ambition - play pretty, dominate the ball, and a defeat doesn't matter. As I said, I think that parodies both the European teams that tried their best to win at Anfield (but often simply weren't good enough) and the current Liverpool team itself.

[Garcepticon]

What attitude?, We're short of strikers and have been lacking our best defensive midfielder that is just reality, how do we get to the implication that this means we should just roll over sorry can't follow the logic. Can't imagine Rodgers giving the dressing room talk 'listen lads FSG wouldn't let me buy a striker before the end of the window, and Lucas is fucked for a few months, go out and if you can keep the score down to a one nil loss you's have done well'. Recognising we have limitations doesn't mean you give up.

Just because we've leaked a few goals doesn't mean it's going to happen every game. I'll restate, we played a perfect european away bar one mistake again reality, we controlled the game until one lapse of concentration, it's hard to generalise  too widely from that.

Of course we Gerrard and Suarez would have given us more bite but when they're knackered for Chelsea or worse one of them gets injured, people would cry why is Rodgers taking them to Moscow on Thursday. Rodgers made his decision who to play from the resources available to him and it's not as simple as just playing his best eleven. managing a football team involves taking things into consideration things we don't even know about.

We go out to win every game, but if you think we're going to do that this season you'll be very disappointed and the danger is you can miss some of the groundwork that's being laid.

What use was controlling the game if we were never going to score and always likely to concede? They could have easily got two goals and perhaps three. We on the other hand didn't have any clear cut chances that I can remember. My point is that Rodgers got last night's team wrong, he can't send a team out to get a 0-0 and leave it without an attacking threat because we are likely to concede in every game we play. I agree, we won't always concede easy goals under Rodgers, but we have to accept that one of our weaknesses at the minute is how prone we are to switching off. Perhaps we will stop conceding these goals, but whilst we do we have to compensate for it, we have to find a balance wherein we recognise that we are prone to conceding but, for example, push Gerrard higher up the pitch or put Sterling on his natural foot where he can deliver better crosses or bring on Ngoo (or someone with presence) to get on the end of crosses. Taking that analysis to last night, there are things he could have done to give our team an attacking threat last night, (not play Cole), but he didn't, and I'm not talking about playing Gerrard or Suarez, because we couldn't afford too. But I felt the team last night was pretty dire up front and as such it didn't really have a chance.

With regards to roll on January, I personally think that it will be too late to salvage the league if we carry on the way we have done - looking like we'll concede without a real attacking threat. Rodgers needs to get more out of this squad if he hopes to finish in 5th 6th come the end of the season.

[Yorkykopite]

We on the other hand didn't have any clear cut chances that I can remember.

Henderson - a reasonably easy chance in the first half. One on one with keeper, chose to pass.

Cole - a reasonably easy chance in the second half. One on one with keeper, hit it badly.

There were a couple of other decent chances too, especially the one Henderson ballooned over the bar.

[No666]

This isn't a request, this is an order from your sovereign lord:

Kenneth Dalglish ‏@kennethdalglish
Please support the magnificent Anne Williams in her fight for justice by signing this petition. http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/40925