Topic: The Top Six Mini-League Thread... Sponsored by TENA

[SP]

Mathematically, even first is still possible!

(yes, yes, I know bar a collapse that Chelsea will win the league).

The target has to be to win all the games. We will be favourites for all of them.

If we get close to that we'll get top 4 easily.

[Alan_X]

not sure how anyone could be that confident. Our fixture list is terrible

Results this season against the teams on the run-in:

Everton Away: Won 1-0
Bournemouth Away: Lost 3-4
Stoke Home: Won 4-1
West Brom Home: Won 2-1
Crystal Palace Away: Won 4-2
Watford Home: Won 6-1
Southampton Away: Draw 0-0
West Ham Home: Draw 2-2
Middlesborough Away: Won 3-0

Why is that a terrible set of games? Bournemouth was a one in a hundred game and away from home, dropping points at home against West Ham is probably the worst of the rest. 6 wins (scoring 20 goals), 2 draws and a solitary defeat would give us 76 points. I think we'll do better than that.

[carven]

League fixtures left for Manchester United:
Reverse fixtures in ( )

01-Apr   H   West Brom Albion (Won 0-2)
04-Apr   H   Everton (Drew 1-1)
09-Apr   A   Sunderland (Won 3-1)
16-Apr   H   Chelsea (Lost 0-4)
23-Apr   A   Burnley (Drew 0-0)
30-Apr   H   Swansea City (Won 1-3)
            
06-May   A   Arsenal (Drew 1-1)
13-May   A   Tottenham Hotspur (Won 1-0)
21-May   H   Crystal Palace (Won 1-2)
TBC   A   Manchester City (Lost 1-2)
TBC   A   Southampton (Won 2-0)

Some really tough fixtures there. And you just know the games against Chelsea, Arsenal (maybe?), Spurs and Man City.. Mourinho will be setting his side up NOT to lose instead of having a go at winning.

As long as we match our reverse fixture's results, I'm sure we will finish in the Top 4.

[killer-heels]

The only worry about Utd's fixtures is the timing. If Arsenal are cut adrift and Sphrs are home safe, the intensity could drop. Could do with the City game not being put off to the end of the season.

[Red_Irishman]

The only worry about Utd's fixtures is the timing. If Arsenal are cut adrift and Sphrs are home safe, the intensity could drop. Could do with the City game not being put off to the end of the season.

You could be right. However, I think playing Spurs, Arsenal and City away in 3 of the last 4 games is devastating.

There's no easy time to play them teams IMO. Arsenal may not be too far off United come then, they will pick up some form as they can't get worse.

City will go all out to beat them no matter what's happening and Spurs have a brilliant home record.

That's not to say United can't get 3 to 5 points off them 3 fixtures but they have little margin for error against the lesser teams from here on because their record against the top 6 this season is not good.

I think we need to take it one game at a time as everyone else says, impossible to know what's going to happen.

[JP-65]

League fixtures left for Manchester United:
Reverse fixtures in ( )

01-Apr   H   West Brom Albion (Won 0-2)
04-Apr   H   Everton (Drew 1-1)
09-Apr   A   Sunderland (Won 3-1)
16-Apr   H   Chelsea (Lost 0-4)
23-Apr   A   Burnley (Drew 0-0)
30-Apr   H   Swansea City (Won 1-3)
            
06-May   A   Arsenal (Drew 1-1)
13-May   A   Tottenham Hotspur (Won 1-0)
21-May   H   Crystal Palace (Won 1-2)
TBC   A   Manchester City (Lost 1-2)
TBC   A   Southampton (Won 2-0)

Some really tough fixtures there. And you just know the games against Chelsea, Arsenal (maybe?), Spurs and Man City.. Mourinho will be setting his side up NOT to lose instead of having a go at winning.

As long as we match our reverse fixture's results, I'm sure we will finish in the Top 4.

If both ourselves & United match the reverse fixture's, we end up 3 points ahead (with better goal difference as well)

[Greatness]

The only worry about Utd's fixtures is the timing. If Arsenal are cut adrift and Sphrs are home safe, the intensity could drop. Could do with the City game not being put off to the end of the season.

Spurs last ever home game at White Hart Lane, think they will be going all out to win that game

[Eeyore]

Results this season against the teams on the run-in:

Everton Away: Won 1-0
Bournemouth Away: Lost 3-4
Stoke Home: Won 4-1
West Brom Home: Won 2-1
Crystal Palace Away: Won 4-2
Watford Home: Won 6-1
Southampton Away: Draw 0-0
West Ham Home: Draw 2-2
Middlesborough Away: Won 3-0

Why is that a terrible set of games? Bournemouth was a one in a hundred game and away from home, dropping points at home against West Ham is probably the worst of the rest. 6 wins (scoring 20 goals), 2 draws and a solitary defeat would give us 76 points. I think we'll do better than that.

The home games are fine but if you were looking at the aways that least suit our style of play then Stoke, WBA, Watford and West Ham would be right up there. Big physical teams who will should offer us little chance to counter press and who will cause us problems from set pieces.

Their fans will be on our backs from the first whistle and we will need to show character and hope for fair officiating. Personally i think it will be really tight at the end of the season and will depend on how well we compete in those four away games.

[Alan_X]

The home games are fine but if you were looking at the aways that least suit our style of play then Stoke, WBA, Watford and West Ham would be right up there. Big physical teams who will should offer us little chance to counter press and who will cause us problems from set pieces.

Their fans will be on our backs from the first whistle and we will need to show character and hope for fair officiating. Personally i think it will be really tight at the end of the season and will depend on how well we compete in those four away games.

Agree Al. I don't think it will be a cakewalk and I hope the team take it seriously. I was at Watford away when they beat us 3-0 but we're a better team now. 

It's still a run of fixtures with the highest opposition in 7th place. And when people say we can't beat teams like those it's clearly not the case.

[cdav]

The home games are fine but if you were looking at the aways that least suit our style of play then Stoke, WBA, Watford and West Ham would be right up there. Big physical teams who will should offer us little chance to counter press and who will cause us problems from set pieces.

Their fans will be on our backs from the first whistle and we will need to show character and hope for fair officiating. Personally i think it will be really tight at the end of the season and will depend on how well we compete in those four away games.

I agree they aren't the ideal sides to be playing away at, but I really hope they will all be on the beach (after securing PL football next season) and not have anywhere near the motivation or desire we should have in those matches. And we don't need to win all of them- if we could pick up about 5 points from those games I think we would be fine (so long as we win our home matches).

[Suareznumber7]

If it's down to us and those two, we're pretty much guaranteed top four.

Not quite a lock as we will need Utd to drop some points. 

[Eeyore]

I agree they aren't the ideal sides to be playing away at, but I really hope they will all be on the beach (after securing PL football next season) and not have anywhere near the motivation or desire we should have in those matches. And we don't need to win all of them- if we could pick up about 5 points from those games I think we would be fine (so long as we win our home matches).

I doubt it though all four sets of fans hate us and so do most of the managers. The fans will turn it in to a bear pit. It will need strong officiating plus us being right up for the battle.

In the last 5 seasons we have lost 6-1 and 3-1 at Stoke, 3-0 at West Brom, 3-0 at Watford and 2-0 and 3-1 at West Ham.

We have a side with more of an emphasis on ball players than physicality and if we get a weak referee then the above teams will cause us problems. Away from home against physical in the Premier League is always going to be tough especially when your players are as honest (naive) as ours.

[Wombat]

Is Sadio Mane away in Africa for the next 2 weeks?

[Barneylfc∗]

Is Sadio Mane away in Africa for the next 2 weeks?

Probably not 2 weeks. They play on Thursday and Sunday, so probably fly back Monday.

[Tiz Lad]

Probably not 2 weeks. They play on Thursday and Sunday, so probably fly back Monday.

Mané playing a friendly against Nigeria in Barnet, Thursday, then a Friendly against Ivory Coast Monday in Paris

You're bigger worries are Coutinho and Firmino 1.45 am Weds morning in Brazil

[Barneylfc∗]

Mané playing a friendly against Nigeria in Barnet, Thursday, then a Friendly against Ivory Coast Monday in Paris

You're bigger worries are Coutinho and Firmino 1.45 am Weds morning in Brazil

Only checked the fixtures, that's great.

[rkgriffin]

if we avoid any injuries during the break and get Hendo and Lovren back fit I think we are good for fourth.  The back to back away games against Stoke and West Brom will decide the run in.  If we can get 12 from the next 5 matches we will have fourth.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

League fixtures left for Manchester United:
Reverse fixtures in ( )

01-Apr   H   West Brom Albion (Won 0-2)
04-Apr   H   Everton (Drew 1-1)
09-Apr   A   Sunderland (Won 3-1)
16-Apr   H   Chelsea (Lost 0-4)
23-Apr   A   Burnley (Drew 0-0)
30-Apr   H   Swansea City (Won 1-3)
            
06-May   A   Arsenal (Drew 1-1)
13-May   A   Tottenham Hotspur (Won 1-0)
21-May   H   Crystal Palace (Won 1-2)
TBC   A   Manchester City (Lost 1-2)
TBC   A   Southampton (Won 2-0)

Some really tough fixtures there. And you just know the games against Chelsea, Arsenal (maybe?), Spurs and Man City.. Mourinho will be setting his side up NOT to lose instead of having a go at winning.

As long as we match our reverse fixture's results, I'm sure we will finish in the Top 4.

The Chelsea game will also be TBC as Chelsea are playing in the FA Cup on that weekend.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

The only worry about Utd's fixtures is the timing. If Arsenal are cut adrift and Sphrs are home safe, the intensity could drop. Could do with the City game not being put off to the end of the season.

If they are in the final stages of the Europa League, Mourinho won't give a shit about the PL.

They have five games to win the EL, and the combinations of teams that they can face leading up to the final are far easier than their fixtures in the league, feel like they will throw the league if they get to the EL semis.

[ShrewKop]

If they are in the final stages of the Europa League, Mourinho won't give a shit about the PL.

They have five games to win the EL, and the combinations of teams that they can face leading up to the final are far easier than their fixtures in the league, feel like they will throw the league if they get to the EL semis.

I'm sure the answer is no, but if United went on to finish outside the top 4, but win the EL, does their Champions League place come at the expense of the team who finishes fourth?

I recall when we won the CL in 2005, there was debate as to whether Everton would qualify or not albeit it had no bearing in the end.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

I'm sure the answer is no, but if United went on to finish outside the top 4, but win the EL, does their Champions League place come at the expense of the team who finishes fourth?

I recall when we won the CL in 2005, there was debate as to whether Everton would qualify or not albeit it had no bearing in the end.

No, 4th place missing out on next year's CL is a scenario that will only happen if Leicester wins the CL this year. United winning the EL and finishing outside the top four will mean England have 5 teams in the CL next year.

[paddysour]

I'm sure the answer is no, but if United went on to finish outside the top 4, but win the EL, does their Champions League place come at the expense of the team who finishes fourth?

I recall when we won the CL in 2005, there was debate as to whether Everton would qualify or not albeit it had no bearing in the end.

The only way 4th loses the CL spot is if the CL AND the EL are both won by English teams who do not finish in the top four. So 4th would lose out if:

Man Utd win the EL & finish outside the top four
AND
Leicester win the CL & finish outside the top four

[Iska]

feel like they will throw the league if they get to the EL semis

They will throw the league when it looks too difficult to get top 4, it's the Mourinho way.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

The only way 4th loses the CL spot is if the CL AND the EL are both won by English teams who do not finish in the top four. So 4th would lose out if:

Man Utd win the EL & finish outside the top four
AND
Leicester win the CL & finish outside the top four

Not true.

4th place team won't play in the CL next year only if Leicester wins the CL this year regardless of whatever United do in the EL.

[newrosswaterford]

They will throw the league when it looks too difficult to get top 4, it's the Mourinho way.

He is a front runner. Once he has to chase he is fucked.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

He is a front runner. Once he has to chase he is fucked.

Let's be honest, if I am in his position, seeing the teams remaining in the EL and then looking at his team's fixtures in the league, I'd take my chances in the EL every day of the week. Their run in, in late April is tough as fuck and harder than any team they will face in the EL.

[paddysour]

Not true.

4th place team won't play in the CL next year only if Leicester wins the CL this year regardless of whatever United do in the EL.

It is true, what's your source to say it's not?

England are allowed a maximum of 5 CL teams in any given season. 4 automatic positions, plus 1 extra if a non top four team wins one of the Uefa competitions. If Leicester win the CL, and Utd don't win the EL, that's still only 5 teams so top four is unaffected.

[Pistolero]

Just having a look at all the remaining fixtures and The Bitters could have a say in how the top 4 looks as they have to play 4 of the top 6 ....although our game aside, I'm sure most of their fans would happily lose the other contests just to  fuck up our chances of CL

[Jayworden99]

Just having a look at all the remaining fixtures and The Bitters could have a say in how the top 4 looks as they have to play 4 of the top 6 ....although our game aside, I'm sure most of their fans would happily lose the other contests just to  fuck up our chances of CL

Surely this would result in them not getting top 4 aswell though? In a way we're hoping they can get a result v City aslong as they drop points elsewhere.

[The Test]

It's been a real rollercoaster of a season so far. We've been at times an unstoppable force, at others a complete mess, and at times we've had to scrap... hard and have done so successfully. It feels to me like the players have learnt a bit in this period and we'll hopefully see a bit more nous over the coming weeks. Henderson and Lovren will be huge additions.

4th as it stands, 10 winnable games, hopefully with the ability to make meaningful in-game substitutions for the first time in a while... and with our rivals all playing each other. We'd all have taken that gladly at the start of the season. Brilliant opportunity.

[Dougle]

I doubt it though all four sets of fans hate us and so do most of the managers. The fans will turn it in to a bear pit. It will need strong officiating plus us being right up for the battle.

In the last 5 seasons we have lost 6-1 and 3-1 at Stoke, 3-0 at West Brom, 3-0 at Watford and 2-0 and 3-1 at West Ham.

We have a side with more of an emphasis on ball players than physicality and if we get a weak referee then the above teams will cause us problems. Away from home against physical in the Premier League is always going to be tough especially when your players are as honest (naive) as ours.

Well at some point in time we are going to have to front up to these teams. You are dead right about the physicality being a big factor against us, in every sense. We will have to be totally clued in, just like we were yesterday but in a different way. It's less a carnaval of footballing excellence (yesterday)  and more a series of set piece battles, individual battles and referee badgering. It has to happen sometime because next year it is going to be the same thing allover again. We have to find the concentration, nous, and be able to fight their fire with our own version. Starting with Everton.

[Dougle]

Mané playing a friendly against Nigeria in Barnet, Thursday, then a Friendly against Ivory Coast Monday in Paris

You're bigger worries are Coutinho and Firmino 1.45 am Weds morning in Brazil

So they are both in the squad then ? Pity. It will be very interesting to see how PC goes there.
So both will possibly be playing into the early morning on Wednesday ? Not good at all.

[didi]

just think our weak squad might be our downfall
international break, essential we dont pick up injuries

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

It is true, what's your source to say it's not?

England are allowed a maximum of 5 CL teams in any given season. 4 automatic positions, plus 1 extra if a non top four team wins one of the Uefa competitions. If Leicester win the CL, and Utd don't win the EL, that's still only 5 teams so top four is unaffected.

Read the Echo article a couple of weeks ago mate.

A maximum of 5 CL teams will only occur if the Europa League winner doesn't automatically qualify to the CL via it's league position.

[campioni]

City vs United scheduled for Thursday 27th April, which means united's run in is:

City (A) 27/4/17
Swansea (H) 30/4/17
EL Semi-Final 1st Leg 4/5/17
Arsenal (A) 7/5/17
EL Semi-Final 2nd Leg 11/5/17
Spurs (A) 14/5/17
Palace (H) 21/5/17
EL Final 24/5/17

They'll also have to squeeze Chelsea (H) in there somewhere as well.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

City vs United scheduled for Thursday 27th April, which means united's run in is:

City (A)
Swansea (H)
Arsenal (A)
Spurs (A)
Palace (H)

They'll also have to squeeze Chelsea (H) in there somewhere as well.

Can you please add the EL dates there as well?

Suppose they make it to the SF, how will their schedule look like with dates?

[paddysour]

Read the Echo article a couple of weeks ago mate.

A maximum of 5 CL teams will only occur if the Europa League winner doesn't automatically qualify to the CL via it's league position.

Which is what I said

"Man Utd win the EL & finish outside the top four
AND
Leicester win the CL & finish outside the top four"

Two Non-Top Four teams qualifying, means only 3 more spaces. So that's the only way fourth would miss out.

[UntouchableLuis]

I can't remember a season where we amassed so many points against the 'top teams' - full credit to our players and manager in those games. How many times have the likes of Arsenal and Spurs bottled these big games in the last 5 years or so? It's easier to remedy beating smaller teams than bigger ones IMO - put one player of a Suarez standard in your side and you destroy the minnows but you need to play as a tactical and team unit to conquer the big games. We need more players of Mane danger to put smaller sides to the sword.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Which is what I said

"Man Utd win the EL & finish outside the top four
AND
Leicester win the CL & finish outside the top four"

Two Non-Top Four teams qualifying, means only 3 more spaces. So that's the only way fourth would miss out.

The 5 team thing if United wins the EL, if they don't win it, there are no 5 places for England in the CL even if Leicester win the CL.

[Red-Dread]

Surely this would result in them not getting top 4 aswell though? In a way we're hoping they can get a result v City aslong as they drop points elsewhere.

Everton, mate. Everton.