Topic: The Night Of - New HBO Miniseries - Use Spoiler Tags

[Xxavi]

I remember watching Criminal Justice. Is the narrative of this exactly the same, or loosely based on it? Feel like it would slightly detract from the experience knowing the twists.


[You may have an iPhone but you are still using the free version of Tapatalk and spamming us with that knowledge]

Twists? What twists?

[John C]

I've never seen an opening episode and its subsequent episodes so far apart in quality.  Yeah the cinematography was good and the acting was great in parts but the story and plot lines simply fell apart around us.

Yep you're right mate, and it wasn't helped by the plot unravelling so slow after Ep 1.
A lad in work watched Ep1 last night and told me to get in to it, I just said "lets chat in a few day, but you've got to stick with it now, I can't say anymore"

Of course I'm glad I watched it but as others have pointed out - there's so many criticisms.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Twists? What twists?

well, the one in the final ep

Spoiler

when it was revealed it was most likely the financial advisor did it

[close]

[Xxavi]

well, the one in the final ep

Spoiler

when it was revealed it was most likely the financial advisor did it

[close]

Spoiler

Yeah, I have questions and doubts about it. The actor who played Naz also said in his interview that it is pretty clear to him who did it. I am not sure though.

If we are to accept the shows message, everything may not be what it looks like. You have a drunk/intoxicated driver who is escaping crime scene with a bloody knife in his pocket, blood and DNA evidence all over him and his car, DNA evidence in crime scene, yet he didn't do it. But now, suddenly, it is "clear" the financial advisor did it because he was missing at a certain time period and he took money from her account.

As the series showed, there are about 3-4 people, including Naz himself, who could have done it. That's why I say the show ended in a cliffhanger. I have no clue who did it.

[close]

[blacksun]

Spoiler

Yeah, I have questions and doubts about it. The actor who played Naz also said in his interview that it is pretty clear to him who did it. I am not sure though.

If we are to accept the shows message, everything may not be what it looks like. You have a drunk/intoxicated driver who is escaping crime scene with a bloody knife in his pocket, blood and DNA evidence all over him and his car, DNA evidence in crime scene, yet he didn't do it. But now, suddenly, it is "clear" the financial advisor did it because he was missing at a certain time period and he took money from her account.

As the series showed, there are about 3-4 people, including Naz himself, who could have done it. That's why I say the show ended in a cliffhanger. I have no clue who did it.

[close]

Spoiler

Thats the point though Xxavi, the jury feel the exact same way, nobody is sure who did it, hence why we get the hung Jury verdict

[close]

[Kashinoda]

Think you lads are being very kind here and personally speaking, I think the last few episodes and especially the finale was pure unadulterated shite.

I've never seen an opening episode and its subsequent episodes so far apart in quality.  Yeah the cinematography was good and the acting was great in parts but the story and plot lines simply fell apart around us.

The last 40 minutes of the finale especially was spell-bindingly crap. Nothing happened.  Just people wandering round aimlessly.

The Kiss, the drug smuggling, Freddie's motivations, Johns feet and the cat. The stepfather, Box, The financial advisor. The head juror speaking to a supreme court Judge in that way was fucking laughable.  That conversation would not have happened in front of a full court.   It was a just mish mash of plot lines floating around going absolutely nowhere.

Spoiler

How the fuck Naz got a hung jury is beyond me.  I know its TV but that would have been a unanimous guilty verdict all day long.  I was expecting John, Chandra or Box to present some crucial piece evidence to give Naz a glimmer of hope.  Box found it and told Weiss but Naz didn't need it anyway!!

[close]

Naz transformed from a nice quite college boy to this tough, tattooed Jail-house thug in a matter of months, er ok. Freddie controlling the guards would not happen as easy as that. Smoking crack in his cell and getting Maccie D's brought in etc. Wouldn't happen and especially not in Rikers.  The Freddie situation reminded me of Harry Grout from Porridge that's how stupid it was.

This will go down in my memory as the best opening episode to TV program I have seen culminating in the worst finale. SO disappointing,

I disagree with the Rikers thing, the place is a mess.

[Igor Tripod Biscan]

Think you lads are being very kind here and personally speaking, I think the last few episodes and especially the finale was pure unadulterated shite.

I've never seen an opening episode and its subsequent episodes so far apart in quality.  Yeah the cinematography was good and the acting was great in parts but the story and plot lines simply fell apart around us.

The last 40 minutes of the finale especially was spell-bindingly crap. Nothing happened.  Just people wandering round aimlessly.

The Kiss, the drug smuggling, Freddie's motivations, Johns feet and the cat. The stepfather, Box, The financial advisor. The head juror speaking to a supreme court Judge in that way was fucking laughable.  That conversation would not have happened in front of a full court.   It was a just mish mash of plot lines floating around going absolutely nowhere.

Spoiler

How the fuck Naz got a hung jury is beyond me.  I know its TV but that would have been a unanimous guilty verdict all day long.  I was expecting John, Chandra or Box to present some crucial piece evidence to give Naz a glimmer of hope.  Box found it and told Weiss but Naz didn't need it anyway!!

[close]

Naz transformed from a nice quite college boy to this tough, tattooed Jail-house thug in a matter of months, er ok. Freddie controlling the guards would not happen as easy as that. Smoking crack in his cell and getting Maccie D's brought in etc. Wouldn't happen and especially not in Rikers.  The Freddie situation reminded me of Harry Grout from Porridge that's how stupid it was.

This will go down in my memory as the best opening episode to TV program I have seen culminating in the worst finale. SO disappointing,

Just binged it and totally agree

Thought it could have been better served with a 13 or 14 or even 18 episode run and explored more characters - the early life of Naz, Freddie, the other suspects, the community implications (the Asian community leaders and perhaps some kind of campaign) -

Tried to be the Wire in some ways with the exploration of the way the assistant DA (fucked up plastic surgery mouth woman - who I found 1 dimensional and fucking awful) tried to manipulate the system but she didn't even have co-counsel in a big high profile trial

Hugely impressed with the tension of the 1st episode but jesus - all foreplay and no pay off

and WHAT THE FUCK was with the eczema storyline - I know it was there to add dimension to STone but FFS it took up so much screen time

The romance angle smacks of 'network/producer' pressure to crowbar in something else and it was ham fisted and shit

Won't be watching it again personally

so fucking slow in some parts and then rushed to fuck in others - I would have been more satisfied with being left with who really did it at the end than the meh ending

Nice to see Bodie although they tried a bit hard to make him bodie

[Buck Pete]

Tried to be the Wire in some ways with the exploration of the way the assistant DA (fucked up plastic surgery mouth woman - who I found 1 dimensional and fucking awful) tried to manipulate the system but she didn't even have co-counsel in a big high profile trial

Not quite sure what the writers/directors were thinking when it came to the trial. Save for a few good bits such-as the cross examination of the Defence Pathologist, you would guess that the writers simply hadn't done their research into what actually happens at a high profile Murder trial.

Even a layman with no legal experience like myself could tell this wasn't how it happens in real-life.  That's what i found great about the first episode, I thought the whole show was going to show us exactly how it happens in real life and show us the correct procedures.

I'd go as far to say they were insulting our intelligence and thought we would just believe anything they threw at us.

[Ziltoid]

Well I binge watched it, and thought it was excellent. And having eczema, although not as bad, I enjoyed that part of it. Showed that people do think its contagious. Ok, the court might have been a bit crap but the series was more than that, it was a story about human beings brought together and how they changed through the course of the investigation.

Any road im hoping theres another. Probably with a whole new cast.

[Chivasino]

Just got onto this. first two episodes was gripping stuff.

Also, thought I recognized the younger of the two guys who own the taxi with Naz's father. Its Tariq out of EastEnders from 10 years or so back.  Looks like he's been in a few HBO things since leaving the square.

[Henry Gale]

Just got onto this. first two episodes was gripping stuff.

GARY!!!

 

[Timbo's Goals]

Some fucking shite in here - not least in that post from Buck Teeth.

It was fucking great. Not as in BB or Sops or Wire or Deadwood or WD or first True D great but fucking great nonetheless in comparison to some of the ordinary shite we have to endure - and that despite a fair few plot weaknesses - the most notable being where was all the blood spattering all over Naz that would have occurred from such an incident!!!

[Craig S]

Some fucking shite in here - not least in that post from Buck Teeth.

It was fucking great. Not as in BB or Sops or Wire or Deadwood or WD or first True D great but fucking great nonetheless in comparison to some of the ordinary shite we have to endure - and that despite a fair few plot weaknesses - the most notable being where was all the blood spattering all over Naz that would have occurred from such an incident!!!

I don't think that was so much of a plot hole. I thought it was to show the investigator / DA (not sure what it's called, over here it's the CPS) will happily push for prosecution, despite glaring gaps in evidence and the lead investigator not even believing the suspect guilty. Just because they believe they have enough evidence to convince 12 people of guilt. It's all based on percentage chance and filling quotas for charges, and having a crime "solved" in the books. Then failing to investigate other avenues as they have a good enough suspect, they already have their narrative, their version. Why waste resources?

His own defence lawyer didn't even care about guilt and just wanted a deal. The saviour in the big name lawyer didn't care about guilt or innocence.

I think the title of the UK version is better: "Criminal Justice" , as that's what it was trying to throw a light on, how it affects / destroys the people involved regardless of guilt. The fact of who actually committed the crime is almost incidental to the story, as it can be (not always) to the "criminal justice" system.

I think they should have kept the title the same as the original. The point was showing system and saying "shite isn't it". And it doesbt spit out a nicely packaged hollywood ending, with the culprit being caught red handed by some culumbo style evidence at the last minute.

[Timbo's Goals]

I don't think that was so much of a plot hole. I thought it was to show the investigator / DA (not sure what it's called, over here it's the CPS) will happily push for prosecution, despite glaring gaps in evidence and the lead investigator not even believing the suspect guilty. Just because they believe they have enough evidence to convince 12 people of guilt. It's all based on percentage chance and filling quotas for charges, and having a crime "solved" in the books. Then failing to investigate other avenues as they have a good enough suspect, they already have their narrative, their version. Why waste resources?

His own defence lawyer didn't even care about guilt and just wanted a deal. The saviour in the big name lawyer didn't care about guilt or innocence.

I think the title of the UK version is better: "Criminal Justice" , as that's what it was trying to throw a light on, how it affects / destroys the people involved regardless of guilt. The fact of who actually committed the crime is almost incidental to the story, as it can be (not always) to the "criminal justice" system.

I think they should have kept the title the same as the original. The point was showing system and saying "shite isn't it". And it doesbt spit out a nicely packaged hollywood ending, with the culprit being caught red handed by some culumbo style evidence at the last minute.

Yeah, good points Craig - tho I'm sure in such a case there'd surely have to be a forensic examination for blood on his body or the bathroom for more evidence of her blood than just his fucking hand and that dagger. maybe not though - which as you say underlines why the nomenclature 'Criminal [In]Justice fits the bill a bit more appropriately. Then again, I haven't seen the UK original. Was that more of a more concise documentary style presentation? This one was clearly aiming for more arty territory and to a great extent i think it succeeded in that lofty ambition - despite what some in here have said.

JT - amongst a superb cast - was fucking immense, though I must admit I did find myself  kind of hoping John Goodman, Steve Buschemi and Jeff bridges would turn up at some stage with the bowling balls for just one cameo scene!!.

 

[Buck Pete]

Some fucking shite in here - not least in that post from Buck Teeth.

It was fucking great. Not as in BB or Sops or Wire or Deadwood or WD or first True D great but fucking great nonetheless in comparison to some of the ordinary shite we have to endure - and that despite a fair few plot weaknesses - the most notable being where was all the blood spattering all over Naz that would have occurred from such an incident!!!

stick to chatting about football pal coz you know fuck all about good telly.

[Timbo's Goals]

stick to chatting about football pal coz you know fuck all about good telly.

Hey pete lad - what makes you so sure I know anything about footy?

 


Oh and please accept my humble apologies for my being so fucking unbearably snotty in my other post. No need for it at all.

[JoeCole]

I thought this was excellent. Smashed out the first 6 episodes back to back last night and finished the final 2 tonight.

Spoiler

I'm glad it didn't end up being the step father that killed her, that would have been way too obvious. I knew the money man would have a fairly big part to play from when he first appeared in the third episode, because I'd seen the actor in films/shows before (Road Trip, anyone??) and at that time he was pretty much just a glorified extra, but I didn't place him as the killer until they first showed the behind-view of him in the footage of the argument with Andrea.

Really enjoyed Michael K Williams as Freddy and also Bodie from The Wire, that guy seems to have a habit of paying initially hateable characters that you end up liking. Turturro was excellent, too. Well, everybody was pretty much.

[close]

Definitely down for a second season, but not continuing this story. I wouldn't quite go full-True Detective. I'd keep Stone around, obviously after what he achieved in Nas' case his reputation would have improved and he'll no longer just be a "plea lawyer", would like to see his next big case explored!

[Yiannis]

(Road Trip, anyone??)

"His name is Barry Manilow?"

[red mongoose]

Spoiler

When the cat walks by in the end?

Result 

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[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Spoiler

When the cat walks by in the end?

Result 

[close]

yes I was very happy to see that too.

[Yiannis]

Spoiler

When the cat walks by in the end?

Result 

[close]

Absolutely.

[ohweloveyerbaldyhead]

Just binge watched this, as others have said the first episode was up there with the best TV shows and it had such potential. The issue I had with the rest of the series was purely that it never delved enough into the characters or the plot. The potential was there for this to be one of the best shows made in my opinion but for me it left me unsatisfied overall. Very good show but nowhere near the other great shows HBO is known for.

[Corkboy]

I just finished this and loved it. Beautiful to look at. I see some comments in this thread that it wasn't realistic, especially from a legal viewpoint.

Spoiler

What I loved about the final day in court was that it was so anti climactic, and very realistic. Not with a bang but a whimper, and all that. Criminal courts are actually pretty low key places in real life. I also appreciated that there were plenty of loose ends and unanswered questions, again just like real life. No blue ribbon, no black and white outcome, just a bunch of people's lives damaged by a series of unfortunate events. Marvellous.

[close]

[Buck Pete]

Hey pete lad - what makes you so sure I know anything about footy?

 


Oh and please accept my humble apologies for my being so fucking unbearably snotty in my other post. No need for it at all.

Apology accepted my man although there was no need for one.

Wonder if the makers of the show have been hit by lawsuits from any of the following:

NYPD, NY State of Corrections, Association of Pathologists, The American Bar association.

I don't want to get into an argument with Corkboy about court rooms as he will probably out waffle me and win but if that's what a real murder trial is like in the US then hell no wonder there are so many lunatics running loose.

[Djozer]

Slightly late to the party but I just finished this and loved it, even with the unrealistic bits. John Tuturro was great, don't think I've ever seen him outside of a Coen Brothers flick before, but he dominates the screen.

Spoiler

My Mum's got occasional eczema (not to the same extent) so I had some empathy with his character too.

[close]

 Possibly my favourite TV drama since True Detective the first.

[Titi Camara]

Started this last night, 95% of the first episode annoyed the fucking life outta me but after the pussy footing ended it finally it got it's hooks in...then John Turturro "bowls" in and I'm 100% on board. Looking forward to how they get him off, divine intervention maybe?

[mallin9]

Started this last night, 95% of the first episode annoyed the fucking life outta me but after the pussy footing ended it finally it got it's hooks in...then John Turturro "bowls" in and I'm 100% on board. Looking forward to how they get him off, divine intervention maybe?

John turturro bowling puns?!!

*Insert Orson Welles clapping gif*

[Kopite Tom]

Watched this myself last month & really enjoyed it despite some parts being unrealistic. The acting was pretty much spot on from everyone involved & its always great to see the main man Michael K Williams in any HBO show.

[CrasherKid79]

Enjoyed it. Tuturro and Williams were brilliant as usual and great to see the 2 young British actors holding their own.

Sure, if you examine it under a microscope there was some unrealistic bits but people expect The Wire everytime HBO make something, and hold it against a series when inevitably it’s a level or two below.

I enjoyed it for what it is.