Topic: Round table: Firmino the next piece in the puzzle

[OOS]

Perhaps it's because I'm watching our games of late half asleep, but I haven't really seen anything that justified his hype from Firmino so far.
Looks like the pace of the league has caught him by surprise. Hope he finds his stride soon.

Same, the way some were going on, I was expecting more like.

Shite watching imports for mid level sides settle brilliantly, while we have to wait ages.

We lost our best attacker in the summer and no one has stepped up so far this season to fill the void, nevermind exceed it

[Fromola]

Same, the way some were going on, I was expecting more like.

Shite watching imports for mid level sides settle brilliantly, while we have to wait ages.

We lost our best attacker in the summer and no one has stepped up so far this season to fill the void, nevermind exceed it

Maybe these mid-table clubs do something revolutionary like having a plan in place for how to use them and actually playing them in their actual positions.

How do you know what his best position is? Were you watching him a lot at Hoffenheim?

I watched him regularly for club and country last season. He's a 10 who can play off or with a striker. He's not a wide player.

It's like when Arsenal play Ozil wide.

If we wanted him we should have signed him instead of Lallana last year. We don't need both.

[OOS]

Maybe these mid-table clubs do something revolutionary like having a plan in place for how to use them and actually playing them in their actual positions.

Aye, it's just shite. Season after season.

[Fromola]

Coutinho as a CM and Firmino as a number 10. With Benteke and Sturridge upfront will work 100%. Need to see it ASAP

I can see Lallana getting that role instead of Firmino and that's if Coutinho does drop deeper. I don't think the Firmino signing was thought through at all..

For the difficult away games as well it'll be a push to play the 4 of them because we haven't got two holding midfielders to sit behind them. A CM was the priority this summer after a striker.

[SerbianScouser]

I watched him regularly for club and country last season. He's a 10 who can play off or with a striker. He's not a wide player.

Fair enough if you watched him.

His unsuitability to playing a bit wider to a no.9 is vastly exaggerated imo. He impressed me in that position at Emirates - the key was us actually having the ball in the final third unlike OT where we hardly saw any of the ball. I suspect people like to exaggerate on it in order to find another stick to beat the manager with.

[Coolie High]

Fair enough if you watched him.

His unsuitability to playing a bit wider to a no.9 is vastly exaggerated imo. He impressed me in that position at Emirates - the key was us actually having the ball in the final third unlike OT where we hardly saw any of the ball. I suspect people like to exaggerate on it in order to find another stick to beat the manager with.

Agree, but to be honest him being so isolated and looking like Willian in a Mourinho team is partly due to how Rodgers has set up this season, so he does deserve blame.

[SerbianScouser]

Agree, but to be honest him being so isolated and looking like Willian in a Mourinho team is partly due to how Rodgers has set up this season, so he does deserve blame.

What I don`t agree with is people actually making out that it was the plan to play 451 and have Ings and Firmino tracking back all the time. In football you play as much as your opponent lets you to. We were simply outplayed and deprived of the ball against the best passing team in the division and that`s it. It`s clear we need a better plan of getting to the final third which can be achieved with correct tweaks in shape and/or personnel. A lot of work ahead no doubt.

[artanis]

The title of this thread assumes too much.
I do not think there is a puzzle.
We (manager) buy fairly randomly. Some good players, some not so good. We play them in fairly random positions and are trying to be a bit too clever at times.
We're a top 10 team in the world of football in terms of revenue, fans, trophies etc. we deserve but do not have a top 10 manager in the world. It is that simple. Until we do it is too early to talk about puzzles and such.
As for Firmino he is a top player. I hope we play him where he needs played.

[alonsoisared]

Was impressed by him today, his best cameo yet

[The Test]

Agreed. He made some good runs and linked up intelligently. Was also impressed with his pace when he made that dummy run to make space for Cou to shoot. I liked what I saw today.

[Michel]

If only his teammates passed him the ball.He was ignored many times despite being in good positions.

[Gnurglan]

Looked better today. A few more games, with Sturridge, Benteke and Coutinho around him and this could get interesting.

[killer-heels]

Looked better today. A few more games, with Sturridge, Benteke and Coutinho around him and this could get interesting.

When will they get on the pitch together?

[Gnurglan]

When will they get on the pitch together?

That remains to be seen.

[killer-heels]

That remains to be seen.

If the intention was to get all these guys onto the field then maybe we should play a system so the team gets used to it so we can eventually slot them in.

At the moment we started with a 4-5-1 formation, then went back to a 3-4-3. Now we have to spend more games trying to get all these used to a system.

There is no conviction and no plan. Its all just being made up on the spot with a prayer that maybe something sticks.

Ill be amazed if them 4 start the game any time soon even if they are all fit.

[Gnurglan]

If the intention was to get all these guys onto the field then maybe we should play a system so the team gets used to it so we can eventually slot them in.

At the moment we started with a 4-5-1 formation, then went back to a 3-4-3. Now we have to spend more games trying to get all these used to a system.

There is no conviction and no plan. Its all just being made up on the spot with a prayer that maybe something sticks.

Ill be amazed if them 4 start the game any time soon even if they are all fit.

With our luck, it won't be a problem. Benteke or Sturridge will be out injured.

[killer-heels]

With our luck, it won't be a problem. Benteke or Sturridge will be out injured.

Probably. But its gone beyond luck now.

[VamosLiverpool]

We've spent £29m on a player who isn't showing his value (early in the season yes but for that some of money I expected more), can't get a starting spot and I've no idea where exactly he is suppose to be playing?

What is he? CM, CAM, RAM? Genuinely not sure what piece of the puzzle he is and more worryingly I don't think the management do either.

[Gnurglan]

We've spent £29m on a player who isn't showing his value (early in the season yes but for that some of money I expected more), can't get a starting spot and I've no idea where exactly he is suppose to be playing?

What is he? CM, CAM, RAM? Genuinely not sure what piece of the puzzle he is and more worryingly I don't think the management do either.

It's a bit confusing for everyone. At least I think it is. But it was bound to be. Benteke, Sturridge, Ings, Origi, Balotelli, Lallana, Coutinho, Markovic, Ibe and Firmino were all in competition for three starting positions. With Coutinho and Sturridge nailed on to start, the confusion was to be expected. Who takes the third spot? That we haven't got all answers at this point is no surprise. What we can hope for is that some players take a step forward and lead.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

He will come good: he has too much quality not too.

I would like us to play a diamond. Firmino at the tip. Lucas at the base. Coutinho and A.N. Other on the sides.

[SlowRap]

Looks nonchalant and a little slow to react to me. Still giving him this year to adapt, will judge better next season.

[tubby]

Looks nonchalant and a little slow to react to me. Still giving him this year to adapt, will judge better next season.

Same impression I get.  Seems like he's used to getting more time on the ball and is very languid in his play.  Expect him to come good, but it won't be till after Christmas.

[mkferdy]

Same impression I get.  Seems like he's used to getting more time on the ball and is very languid in his play.  Expect him to come good, but it won't be till after Christmas.

I agree with this whether he will be given time to adapt is my only worry. Wouldn't come as a complete shock to see him loaned out next year in the arse end of Europe if he doesn't find his feet in the next few months.

[spider-neil]

Firmino plays like a number 10 and Coutinho plays like a number 8. I'm baffled why we seem so reluctant to have them on the pitch at the same time, they play in different positions.

[Gnurglan]

Looks nonchalant and a little slow to react to me. Still giving him this year to adapt, will judge better next season.

We need him to perform this season. He was bought to be a leading player and we need him to be that. Not from day one, but we need to see him get 10+ (goals+assists) this season.

[Kopite B205]

The lads quality; give him a few weeks and the knee jerkers and doubters will be waxing lyrical.

[Gnurglan]

The lads quality; give him a few weeks and the knee jerkers and doubters will be waxing lyrical.

I think so too. Give him a go vs Carlisle and put him at the tip of a diamond midfield. Give him a big role and I think he'll show his worth.

[gravy red]

Firmino plays like a number 10 and Coutinho plays like a number 8. I'm baffled why we seem so reluctant to have them on the pitch at the same time, they play in different positions.

Because BR does not do the obvious. Needs time to adjust Bla Bla Bla

[Miltonred]

When will they get on the pitch together?

We won't. We have all kinds of players tripping over each other. No balance, guys being played out of positions. Good players being asked to compromise their best attributes.

This guy wants to play more or less where Coutinho wants the ball. It's the same sue United had with Mata and Rooney, and Janujizz, tripping over each other to be number ten, then Moyes bought Fellaini.

Honestly we have a bag of players, not a team.

[Schmidt]

We won't. We have all kinds of players tripping over each other. No balance, guys being played out of positions. Good players being asked to compromise their best attributes.

This guy wants to play more or less where Coutinho wants the ball. It's the same sue United had with Mata and Rooney, and Janujizz, tripping over each other to be number ten, then Moyes bought Fellaini.

Honestly we have a bag of players, not a team.

I think we've seen these guys work well together in patches, for example the 15 minutes after the mancs scored their first goal both Ings and Firmino looked excellent swarming around Benteke, with Firmino making runs behind and Ings trying to force a pass through (until they were both subbed for no reason). They all looked pretty good against Norwich too, but with Benteke/Sturridge not fit and most of the chances falling to Coutinho we couldn't get the goals we deserved.

I think Ings has played his way into contention but Firmino isn't far behind, he just needs more time in a set system to get on the same wavelength as the rest of the players. The only worry is that he just won't get that any time soon.

[will2003]

It's a hard one, obviously the price tag was large but he's playing in a team with very little confidence for a club with lofty expectations (perhaps above our station at this moment in time), manager in complete flux about tactics and general management and a fanbase demanding results and spilt about the manger. Put on top of that settling into a new club and culture its gonna take time I think and is certainly not conducive to a good welcome to a new club. Ultimately he will come good I think but i think this season or certainly early in the season he should be allowed to find his feet and settle

[Gnurglan]

It's a hard one, obviously the price tag was large but he's playing in a team with very little confidence for a club with lofty expectations (perhaps above our station at this moment in time), manager in complete flux about tactics and general management and a fanbase demanding results and spilt about the manger. Put on top of that settling into a new club and culture its gonna take time I think and is certainly not conducive to a good welcome to a new club. Ultimately he will come good I think but i think this season or certainly early in the season he should be allowed to find his feet and settle

Yeah, I think we need to expect it to take some time. But we could also take an alternative view. If we buy a player for close to 30M, the third most expensive signing ever for the club, then we can't settle for anything. That kind of player needs to be a leader for us. In times like these, he should be one who gets us going. When I say leader, I don't mean someone who shouts or is this traditional leader. A player you can depend on to do his job, that's what I'm referring to. In Firmino's case, that means a bit of bravery on the ball, creativity, key passes, assists and goals.

We can't remove him of all duties just because he's new. That's for Gomez, Origi and Ings. The rest of the new arrivals needs to perform to a high standard. The same can be said about the players we signed last summer.

[BeautifulGame91]

Just hope he is not played at RWB like Markovic and dumped next season

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

Looks another moments players who goes missing a lot and has no real position. file under lallana, markovic etc

[the good half]

I genuinely think that it's Firmino who is holding the key to Brendan's fiture at LFC.
If he is played in his favoured position consistently, and he gets a tune out of him, the results may come.
If he does the opposite then it's a failure across the board, and that could crush him.

[DanA]

I just hate the way Rodgers is setting up the team this season and IMO that's a big part of why Firmino is struggling.  For me it has to be Firmino as a second striker or no.10 and if that means compromising by pushing Coutinho out onto the left our deeper into midfield the that's the price we pay for signing another no.10. By no means do I like marginalizing Coutinho like that but I can't see how else we can make use of a 30m signing and good player.

For me it has to be:
              Mignolet
Clyne Skrtel Sakho Moreno
            Milner   Lucas
    Sturridge Firmino Coutinho
                 Benteke

If Rodgers doesn't want to play Firmino centrally he shouldn't have signed him.

[levandier]

With our two Brazilian 10s, why not try a Brazilian style 4-2-2-2 with Coutinho and Firmino behind Benteke and Sturridge with Moreno and Clyne providing the width? Might not be the most defensively solid but against weaker teams at home, it would get our best attacking talent on the field at once.

[KOTP]

the problem seems simple to me we seem to have a very random selection process for signing players, we sign them if they have had good season(s) with clubs, but don't sign them to suit any sort of plan our manager might have (which I don't think he does) for a certain formation we want to play we just seem to randomly sign a load of decent looking players but who all want to play in the same position lob them into some sort of 11 and see what happens.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

the problem seems simple to me we seem to have a very random selection process for signing players, we sign them if they have had good season(s) with clubs, but don't sign them to suit any sort of plan our manager might have (which I don't think he does) for a certain formation we want to play we just seem to randomly sign a load of decent looking players but who all want to play in the same position lob them into some sort of 11 and see what happens.

We've got a similar vibe to Arsenal at the moment in terms of having loads of attacking midfielders who we can't fit into the team at once. and lots of them are lightweight fancy dans who won't really get stuck in.

[BazC]

He should be looked at vs lallana. Him and Coutinho are different enough players to be in the same side; firmino makes runs consistently behind the last defender for one.