Author Topic: Amazon's 'Wheel of Time' (series based on Jordan's novels) (Read 4940 times)

Zeb · « **on:** September 2, 2021, 05:55:59 pm »

(Edit: can't seem to get the link to the trailer to work in flash tags for some reason, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fus4Xb_TLg so have a pic of the main characters instead:

)

Starts on Amazon Prime from the 19th November.

For those who don't the books, it's a very, very lengthy fantasy epic spread across more than a dozen books which draws heavily on Arthurian myths. The author actually died before finishing the series.

I was hugely into the series when it first started but felt it gradually lost its way and became increasingly 'padded' as Jordan struggled with telling stories from different viewpoints, something Martin managed a bit more successfully with his Game of Thrones. So I suppose the interesting part will be on how well this is adapted and what cuts are made to tighten the story up and make it easier to follow.

RedSince86 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 2, 2021, 06:19:13 pm »

I'm looking forward to this, like with GoT i'm coming into this without any knowledge of the story.

I don't think i'll bother with the books, like i did with GoT right after season 1.

Amazon have throw loads of dosh at this show, should be a epic tv show.

Zeb · « **Reply #2 on:** September 2, 2021, 06:28:38 pm »

It's been years since I've read the books, and I've avoided the coverage of the making of this up til now, but I can still recognise a lot of things in the trailer so it's a good sign in so far as catching the feel of the world Jordan wrote. Cautiously optimistic so long as there's not extended scenes of someone just tugging at their own ponytail.

Andy @ Allerton! · « **Reply #3 on:** September 3, 2021, 10:36:50 pm »

Terrible, terrible books.

Just felt so contrived. I was a bit miffed as the first one wasn't too bad, so I bought the lot.

Just so poor. Can't hold a candle the Midkemia Magician series (Raymond E. Feist), Lord of the Rings (Tolkein), Belgariad (David Eddings), Malazan (Steven Ericson), Thomas Covenant Series (Stephen Donaldson), A Song of Ice and Fire (George RR Martin), Spellsinger (Alan Dean Foster) - I know a couple of those had been made into films/series - but I'd love to see the others before the Wheel of TIme.

Andy @ Allerton! · « **Reply #4 on:** September 3, 2021, 10:38:56 pm »

This is the Trailer (for Zeb as he couldn't get it to work?)

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/3Fus4Xb_TLg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/3Fus4Xb_TLg</a>

leinad · « **Reply #5 on:** September 4, 2021, 12:29:07 am »

Quote from: Andy @ Allerton on September 3, 2021, 10:36:50 pm

Terrible, terrible books.

Just felt so contrived. I was a bit miffed as the first one wasn't too bad, so I bought the lot.

Just so poor. Can't hold a candle the Midkemia Magician series (Raymond E. Feist), Lord of the Rings (Tolkein), Belgariad (David Eddings), Malazan (Steven Ericson), Thomas Covenant Series (Stephen Donaldson), A Song of Ice and Fire (George RR Martin), Spellsinger (Alan Dean Foster) - I know a couple of those had been made into films/series - but I'd love to see the others before the Wheel of TIme.

I've never read them myself but always thought they were held in high regard, I heard that they dragged in the middle but got back on track when Sanderson took over.

I've been meaning to read the Malazan series for a while but my back log is so big!

Zeb · « **Reply #6 on:** September 4, 2021, 04:38:04 am »

Cheers Andy. Yeah, it works again now, but was showing 'flash player no longer supported' in my browser the other day.

I didn't think the series was that bad, at least not initially, when they were introducing the Aes Sedai and the general 'desolation of a kingdom' theme. It did drag on though. And you're right about Magician. The other one I'd agree with would be the Thomas Covenant series, although that's probably too dark for a mainstream audience.

Andy @ Allerton! · « **Reply #7 on:** September 4, 2021, 09:27:47 am »

Quote from: Zeb on September 4, 2021, 04:38:04 am

Cheers Andy. Yeah, it works again now, but was showing 'flash player no longer supported' in my browser the other day.

I didn't think the series was that bad, at least not initially, when they were introducing the Aes Sedai and the general 'desolation of a kingdom' theme. It did drag on though. And you're right about Magician. The other one I'd agree with would be the Thomas Covenant series, although that's probably too dark for a mainstream audience.

I thought the first one was really good, but yeah the others seemed to drag. But do you know what? I've still got the books and I read them when they first game out, so I'll give them another go. It's been about 30 years since I last had a crack at them - so maybe I'm a bit more patient now

Another series of good fantasy books are the "Eternal Champion" series by Michael Moorcock and the Triology by Robin Hobb.

jillcwhomever · « **Reply #8 on:** September 4, 2021, 12:20:39 pm »

Quote from: Andy @ Allerton on September 3, 2021, 10:36:50 pm

Terrible, terrible books.

Just felt so contrived. I was a bit miffed as the first one wasn't too bad, so I bought the lot.

Just so poor. Can't hold a candle the Midkemia Magician series (Raymond E. Feist), Lord of the Rings (Tolkein), Belgariad (David Eddings), Malazan (Steven Ericson), Thomas Covenant Series (Stephen Donaldson), A Song of Ice and Fire (George RR Martin), Spellsinger (Alan Dean Foster) - I know a couple of those had been made into films/series - but I'd love to see the others before the Wheel of TIme.

Meh Lord of the Rings, could never get into those books at all. My friends totally love Belgariad though, that's one I need to perhaps try.

Lorne Balfe is due to write the music for Wheel of Time, looking forward to hearing that. His sound track for His Dark Materials is stunning.

abs-ibs · « **Reply #9 on:** September 5, 2021, 03:50:48 am »

I loved the story in The Wheel of Time series. Absolutely loved it. But I would say Robert Jordan did waffle on a lot in the middle of the series. talking about what people wore and what the surroundings were like for what seemed forever, when we already had an idea of what things were like in this world he had created. The first 4 or 5 books were great and the actual events that happened later on were fantastic. I would just say that his style of writing slowly changed and unfortunately not for the better. But again I would stress that the actual story, and the characters in it were wonderfully fleshed out and had great depth to them, both protagonists and antagonists. With mystery about who was good and bad all the way through.

Contrived Andy??? How? I don't see how this is contrived any more than many of the other writers you mentioned.

Tolkien was the founder for modern high fantasy, but his style was very much a product of his time. Compared to many more modern writers Tolkien is very difficult to read. The Silmarillion is one of the most difficultly boring fantasy books I have ever picked up. I was hugely engrossed in LotR at the time, but that was horrible to read, I found. I loved how David Eddings was great in creating fun characters but I would say more contrived than RJ. Raymond E Feist is probably the most balanced fantasy writer out there. He creates a narrative which doesn't involve way too much unnecessary description and balances it well with speech and development to keep things flowing at a great pace.

Robert Jordan made a wonderful world with connections to many real life myths and legends, but with his own spin on them. His style was not as vicious and gritty as George R R Martin's is in GoT, but probably more romanticised and more inclusive. This can be read by anyone of any age, whereas I would not read GoT to any kids.

Each writer will have their own flaws so to speak, but no more than any others. This is not the easiest set of novels to read, I would accede to, but If you do read them it is very rewarding by the end.

If they get it right, this could be 1 hell of a good series, especially if you find the books a little difficult to plough through.

P. S other decent fantasy writers would be Melanie Rawn, although she stopped writing. L E Modesitt Jr with his Order/Chaos war novels. Tad Williams did a great trilogy. Katherine Kerr wrote a great set of books with a real celtic feel to the world. Worth checking them out.

Sooooooo looking forward to seeing this. And Dune

Andy @ Allerton! · « **Reply #10 on:** September 5, 2021, 07:20:52 am »

Quote from: abs-ibs on September 5, 2021, 03:50:48 am

I loved the story in The Wheel of Time series. Absolutely loved it. But I would say Robert Jordan did waffle on a lot in the middle of the series. talking about what people wore and what the surroundings were like for what seemed forever, when we already had an idea of what things were like in this world he had created. The first 4 or 5 books were great and the actual events that happened later on were fantastic. I would just say that his style of writing slowly changed and unfortunately not for the better. But again I would stress that the actual story, and the characters in it were wonderfully fleshed out and had great depth to them, both protagonists and antagonists. With mystery about who was good and bad all the way through.

Contrived Andy??? How? I don't see how this is contrived any more than many of the other writers you mentioned.

Tolkien was the founder for modern high fantasy, but his style was very much a product of his time. Compared to many more modern writers Tolkien is very difficult to read. The Silmarillion is one of the most difficultly boring fantasy books I have ever picked up. I was hugely engrossed in LotR at the time, but that was horrible to read, I found. I loved how David Eddings was great in creating fun characters but I would say more contrived than RJ. Raymond E Feist is probably the most balanced fantasy writer out there. He creates a narrative which doesn't involve way too much unnecessary description and balances it well with speech and development to keep things flowing at a great pace.

Robert Jordan made a wonderful world with connections to many real life myths and legends, but with his own spin on them. His style was not as vicious and gritty as George R R Martin's is in GoT, but probably more romanticised and more inclusive. This can be read by anyone of any age, whereas I would not read GoT to any kids.

Each writer will have their own flaws so to speak, but no more than any others. This is not the easiest set of novels to read, I would accede to, but If you do read them it is very rewarding by the end.

If they get it right, this could be 1 hell of a good series, especially if you find the books a little difficult to plough through.

P. S other decent fantasy writers would be Melanie Rawn, although she stopped writing. L E Modesitt Jr with his Order/Chaos war novels. Tad Williams did a great trilogy. Katherine Kerr wrote a great set of books with a real celtic feel to the world. Worth checking them out.

Sooooooo looking forward to seeing this. And Dune

I agree with Tolkein that there is a style of reading that you must adopt. Like when I have read Tolstoy, the feeling is that you must rush through it because it's so big and the same with Tolkein. But that just doesn't work. To read Tolkein and Tolstoy I think you have to put off trying to slam through it. You have to slow down and slowly and deliberately enjoy the writing. Once you do that (I'm a very fast reader, so found it difficult myself) then you slip into the world and the language.

The Wheel of Time books just seemed overwordy for very little reward, but I'll give them another go as it's possible I'm being unfair.

If you want an example of a descriptive and wordy, but amazing author then I was surprised that you didn't mention Stephen Donaldson - who I think it possibly the best writer I have ever read alongside Raymond E. Feist and Philip K. Dick.

abs-ibs · « **Reply #11 on:** September 5, 2021, 01:08:46 pm »

Personally I really dislike over-wordy authors. Don't need it!

Maybe I got easily influenced as a child when reading this and so it was not a chore. I think it always helps when you get invested in the story and so you ignore many of the faults it may have.

Like I said RJ is not the easiest to read because of this. But the characters and the storyline are really wonderful.

I gave up on War and Peace about a 3rd of the way through. Like yourself maybe I am too fast a reader Andy. Never read Stephen Donaldson though. May give him a look. Thanks for the recommendation

gjr1 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2021, 12:57:29 am »

3 episodes just landed on Prime in Australia

That’ll keep me busy tonight

Almost an hour long each

newterp · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2021, 02:43:56 am »

Quote from: abs-ibs on September 5, 2021, 01:08:46 pm

Personally I really dislike over-wordy authors. Don't need it!

Maybe I got easily influenced as a child when reading this and so it was not a chore. I think it always helps when you get invested in the story and so you ignore many of the faults it may have.

Like I said RJ is not the easiest to read because of this. But the characters and the storyline are really wonderful.

I gave up on War and Peace about a 3rd of the way through. Like yourself maybe I am too fast a reader Andy. Never read Stephen Donaldson though. May give him a look. Thanks for the recommendation

The middle books in WoT were fillers. Not very good.

jillcwhomever · « **Reply #14 on:** November 19, 2021, 07:39:42 am »

I’m going to give this try, I have not read any of the books but I feel a bit intrigued about this.

gjr1 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 19, 2021, 12:35:43 pm »

I have to admit, that’s pretty good TV that

A shame I’ll have to wait a week for the next one. I could binge this all night if they where available

Skeeve · « **Reply #16 on:** November 19, 2021, 01:11:36 pm »

Thought the first ep was pretty weak, too much stuff changed for the sake of it or to make room for the action sequences e.g. the Cauthon family being portrayed the way they were seemed unnecessary and the idiocy of the initial voiceover about the dragon reborn and not knowing if it was a man or a woman and then to top it off, much of the big scene opted for the quick, jerky cuts that plague so many films these days too.

The subsequent eps felt stronger, with changes seeming to be more for pacing, while mostly keeping the feel of the source material.

jillcwhomever · « **Reply #17 on:** November 19, 2021, 09:08:32 pm »

I'm not too sure after seeing the first three. I will certainly try the next episode but it's not doing much for me, and every time I see those ruddy things chasing them I immediately get bored for some reason.

abs-ibs · « **Reply #18 on:** November 19, 2021, 10:19:41 pm »

Remember the Trollocs are just footsoldiers and are just there for a few books until more dangerous enemies are involved. Decent effects and considering how bad some fantasy series are made, I am pleasantly surprised at how well the first three episodes have been made.

Definitely worth sticking with.

It is not Game of Thrones, but that is because the books were extremely different in theme and style. If anything, it is better that Game of Thrones was made before this, as now fantasy TV shows will be given better production value compared to the past, as companies try to unearth the next GoT replacement.

So overall, I would say so far, not as dark or disturbing as GoT, but better than The Witcher from Netflix, which I still enjoyed.

Trump's tiny tiny hands · « **Reply #19 on:** November 19, 2021, 11:08:39 pm »

Thought the first three episodes were decent, was concerned it would be shite after that terrible opening edit/monologue.

Surprised nobody mentioned the Empire Trilogy by Feist and Wurts. That would make for a compelling tv series.

abs-ibs · « **Reply #20 on:** November 20, 2021, 12:03:48 am »

I would love to see The Empire Trilogy on tv too. It is something slightly leftfield from traditional fantasy as it has a more Asian (Japanese I think) influenced society in the novels.

To be honest I was kind of hoping for the meeting between Lews Therin and Ishamael at the beginning of episode 1, but it may have been slightly confusing for non-book readers, so they may not have filmed it for that reason.

Still good start. Not bothered about the death of a certain someone that a bunch of internet people seem to be up in arms about. Didn't break the story, didn't do any harm. Move on.

gjr1 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 20, 2021, 12:25:38 am »

May I start by asking the people with the powers to include a no spoilers and / or comparison to the books in the title.

Or create a new topic that includes such wording

I think it’s important that we have a thread that talks about the actual merits or the TV show and not try some kind of comparison.

I’ve listened to a little of the first audio book quite a while ago but gave up due to the narration so I knew a little but forgot most

Thanks in advance

—-

Back to the show. I think the characters are great and the acting was pretty good too. When I watched the Witcher and the Mandalorian I thought some of the acting was poor (not the main character just the support)

I enjoyed every second of this though. Everything I want in a film / TV show. The production values of TV is way better than what it was.

Trada · « **Reply #22 on:** November 21, 2021, 09:05:55 pm »

Just watched the first 3 episodes better than I thought it would be looking forward to the next one.

RedSince86 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 21, 2021, 10:12:42 pm »

Our Monday night viewing sorted, been looking forward to this, budget is massive for it.

Andy @ Allerton! · « **Reply #24 on:** November 21, 2021, 10:54:15 pm »

Quote from: Trump's tiny tiny hands on November 19, 2021, 11:08:39 pm

Thought the first three episodes were decent, was concerned it would be shite after that terrible opening edit/monologue.

Surprised nobody mentioned the Empire Trilogy by Feist and Wurts. That would make for a compelling tv series.

You'd have to have Magician, Battle at Sethanon and the rest as well.

I also like the Kind of the Blood series - thought it was a cracking way to expand Midkemia

Skeeve · « **Reply #25 on:** November 26, 2021, 03:16:09 am »

Quote from: RedSince86 on November 21, 2021, 10:12:42 pm

Our Monday night viewing sorted, been looking forward to this, budget is massive for it.

Even with a hefty budget, this first season is still only 8 eps and means they have had to cut or truncate a bunch of stuff, makes you wonder if Amazon will loosen the purse strings for subsequent seasons since the books tend to get longer after these first few.

Just watched the 4th ep and it continues the trend of 2 and 3 of improving on a weaker first ep, they are definitely leaning into keeping the audience guessing about one particular question, which seems a little odd for a book series that first came out 30 years ago.

Trada · « **Reply #26 on:** November 26, 2021, 11:52:34 am »

I was reading that Amazon have meant to have spent $1b on this...... Are people mixing it up with the TV series of Lord of the Rings Amazon are making I heard that costing that much

Skeeve · « **Reply #27 on:** November 26, 2021, 11:15:51 pm »

Quote from: Trada on November 26, 2021, 11:52:34 am

I was reading that Amazon have meant to have spent $1b on this...... Are people mixing it up with the TV series of Lord of the Rings Amazon are making I heard that costing that much

Maybe some people writing articles have extrapolated that total based on the first season costing $80m, that'd easily take it up to $1b by the end, even without the budget for subsequent seasons increasing.

red mongoose · « **Reply #28 on:** November 27, 2021, 04:55:07 am »

This has been much better than I expected. They have done what I was hoping (but not expecting) they would, which is pull some of the excellent ideas out of the morass of (at times) slop writing. Some of the casting choices have been strange and/or bad (Liandrin especially), and fuck alone knows what they are playing at with Perrin, but it has been a really good watch.

newterp · « **Reply #29 on:** November 30, 2021, 02:51:25 am »

Just got the first episode done - I liked it.

Chakan · « **Reply #30 on:** November 30, 2021, 10:35:51 am »

Can’t get into it, I’ve read the books, but honestly there’s not one character I’m actually invested in in the series.

Kashinoda · « **Reply #31 on:** November 30, 2021, 10:43:19 am »

The first episode was pretty run of the mill, plus it was extremely jarring seeing everyone looking prestine.

Second and third much better, I put it down to the increased ratio of mud to face.

Saul Goodman · « **Reply #32 on:** December 1, 2021, 10:33:02 pm »

It's such a strange show. It looks beautiful and spectacular at times and then cheap and hammy in other places. The same could be said for the dialogue with some engaging scenes mixed with awful writing. Poor Rosamund Pike does her best but it is hard to not outright laugh at some of the things that she has been asked to say.

I'll keep watching, episode 4 was an improvement. I think using the opening of this episode to the whole show would have been much better as a wow factor to win audiences over from the start.

Saul Goodman · « **Reply #33 on:** December 1, 2021, 10:41:48 pm »

Quote from: Chakan on November 30, 2021, 10:35:51 am

Can’t get into it, I’ve read the books, but honestly there’s not one character I’m actually invested in in the series.

That is actually a really good point. There isn't a single person we have met yet that I would care anything about if they met an untimely end.

BarryCrocker · « **Reply #34 on:** December 2, 2021, 10:25:43 am »

Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 1, 2021, 10:41:48 pm

That is actually a really good point. There isn't a single person we have met yet that I would care anything about if they met an untimely end.

Which is the same reason people like Succession. You hate everyone equally.

Saul Goodman · « **Reply #35 on:** December 2, 2021, 11:17:28 am »

Quote from: BarryCrocker on December 2, 2021, 10:25:43 am

Which is the same reason people like Succession. You hate everyone equally.

That is comparing apples and oranges, Succession is one of my favourite shows. That show builds a world in which people secretly love to see the inner working of the mega-rich is full of narcissists who are deeply miserable while serving it all on a bed of comedy. People normally don't watch shows where they hate everyone and especially not a fantasy one.

S · « **Reply #36 on:** December 2, 2021, 03:42:43 pm »

Quote from: Saul Goodman on December 1, 2021, 10:33:02 pm

It's such a strange show. It looks beautiful and spectacular at times and then cheap and hammy in other places. The same could be said for the dialogue with some engaging scenes mixed with awful writing. Poor Rosamund Pike does her best but it is hard to not outright laugh at some of the things that she has been asked to say.

I thought the same. Amazing landscapes one minute, then something really hokey the next. Intriguing characters, then cringeworthy dialogue.

There's a lot of cashing in on the fantasy genre in the wake of GOT, but nothing even remotely close to how engaging that show was. That said, I'm intrigued enough to carry on watching this. I couldn't handle more than two episodes of The Witcher.

peachybum · « **Reply #37 on:** December 2, 2021, 04:09:33 pm »

Given the crazy amount of money spent on this and apparently Bezos wanting his own GoT it doesn't half give off early Saturday night BBC drama akin to Merlin or the like with the obvious addition of some blood and guts.

Here's hoping they do a better job with the LotR show.

blert596 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 2, 2021, 08:42:32 pm »

Quote from: Chakan on November 30, 2021, 10:35:51 am

Can’t get into it, I’ve read the books, but honestly there’s not one character I’m actually invested in in the series.

Same here. I'm not only struggling to invest in anyone, but I actually dont like any of them. And since the main four potential dragonsl meant to be good friends they sure as hell dont seem to like each other either.

Really want to enjoy it but its all a bit meh so far.

Skeeve · « **Reply #39 on:** December 3, 2021, 08:48:55 pm »

Not sure what the plan was with this latest episode, there wasn't really enough going on to further draw in those who haven't read the books and this latest round of changes are not going to endear them to fans of the books either, which is a shame as after a somewhat iffy first episode it has been steadily improving for the last three before this one.