Author Topic: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him  (Read 47205 times)

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Harinder's post about who ranks as Liverpool's finest ever centre back revealed to me just how seemingly unaware the internet fan-base has become about one of Liverpool's finest ever players. I'm sure a corresponding unawareness exists in respect of other stalwarts from yesteryear but nowhere is it exemplified more than in the case of Tommy Smith.

For that reason I'm of the mind that Tommy Smith merits a thread of his own for those who did see him week in week out during his mid '60's halcyon days to reminisce and celebrate the joys of his unique talents, whilst at the same time perhaps at long last going a small way towards correcting the imbalance which seems to colour the perception of Tommy Smith the footballer.

There exists amongst many Liverpudlians - including many who witnessed only his later '70's years in the right back role - let alone amongst the wider footballing fraternity a kind of ultra-convenient one dimensional categorising of Tommy Smith as simply the hard man. Indeed, the absence of wall-to-wall television back then seems to have 'airbrushed' the footballing side of Tommy Smith from even Liverpool footballing history let alone that of English/European football.

Fact was whilst not "quite" possessed of the supercool elegance of Alan Hansen or Franz Beckebauer, Smithy was actually as good as if not a better all round footballer than Jocky and not a million miles off the level of the Kaiser.

The convenient stereotyping dictates will always be Smithy the iron man, the hard man, the bully. There's no doubting he was all that. And more besides. The hardest around. Ron Harris and Norman Hunter really don't come close to Smith's level of on pitch toughness. However, the hard man image doesn't begin to do justice to Smith's all round footballing abilities during that initial 4/5 year mid '60's spell when he wore the number 10 jersey alongside big Rowdy just as we were embarking on our inaugural European adventures.

There are glimpses of the sort of on the ball skills to which I'm referring in the television snatches of the Inter Milan semi final and the '65 FA Cup final. They reveal a beautifully balanced powerful and skilful player driving forward out of defence able to ghost past the opposition and deliver inch perfect weighted passes. These surges invariably followed yet another crunching tackle  or Masherano type interception in which he'd taken the ball [yeah and often the man too].

As one of the privileged ones who watched him week in week out I can vouch Smithy made those sort of surges with a frequency and success rate that Jocky Hansen could only dream of emulating some 15 years or so later.

Allied to these under-appreciated ball playing skills were his unparralled tackling skills, sound ariel ability, innate game reading and organisational ability, peerless leadership, bravery and an inspirational never say die indomitable spirit leaving me with not the slightest hesitation in putting Tommy Smith not only right up at the top of my own list of Liverpool centre backs by some distance but also in the very highest echelon of Liverpool's finest ever players in any position.

Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Way before my time, but can't agree more.


I picked him in a recent draft on here, and was surprised how little/no praise he got, compared to far lesser talents.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Tommy Smith once said it took him 10 seconds to get a reputation as a hard man, and 10 years to lose it.

A superb footballer, but the hardness was also a part of his game. "Smith took a little nibble, and then he had a bite"

This, though, for me is the epitome of Tommy Smith, the player:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/yEJVHEPEVMs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/yEJVHEPEVMs</a>
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Offline Timbo's Goals

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Way before my time, but can't agree more.


I picked him in a recent draft on here, and was surprised how little/no praise he got, compared to far lesser talents.

I'm delighted by what you say. I'm convinced the perpetuation of the hard man image is responsible for that. It's become just so convenient.

The thing was Nobby Stiles and Ron harris offered really not that much more than the 'hard as nails' tackling/simple pass. Norman Hunter was a step or more up from them. Smithy was harder than all three but had everything else in his locker - including the dribbling and passing skills of an inside forward.

I loved jamie C and he had so many great qualities over his time here but as a footballer he was honestly nowhere near the level of Tommy Smith. Not on the same planet. And I say that with no disrespect to Jamie but merely to try and illustrate just how fabulous a footballer Tommy Smith was. I don't exaggerrate when I say he was a finer 'footballer' than Jocky hansen. He simply was - as great as Jocky was Tommy was the finer player during those '60's peak years.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Tommy Smith once said it took him 10 seconds to get a reputation as a hard man, and 10 years to lose it.

A superb footballer, but the hardness was also a part of his game. "Smith took a little nibble, and then he had a bite"

This, though, for me is the epitome of Tommy Smith, the player:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/yEJVHEPEVMs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/yEJVHEPEVMs</a>

Thanks for that PoP. My only problem with the '74 right back Smithy is the fact that - understandably I guess - it forms part of the basis of most Liverpudlian's perceptions of the man. Bulky, solid - almost someone out of the ale house who can still play a bit - offered a last minute place in the team and surprises everyone with his touch an movement.

The Tommy Smith I'm writing about is clearly partly the mid '70's version but essentially the one that I still savour above all is the slimline, athletic, speedy, ultra-skilful marauding destroyer terrorising forwards with his peerless tacking [emulated though never equalled in a red shirt by lawrenson and mascherano] and then surging forward with innate skill and poise to spray a 30 yard pass to Thompson or callaghan or a through ball to Hunt.

Priceless.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Thanks for that PoP. My only problem with the '74 right back Smithy is the fact that - understandably I guess - it forms part of the basis of most Liverpudlian's perceptions of the man. Bulky, solid - almost someone out of the ale house who can still play a bit - offered a last minute place in the team and surprises everyone with his touch an movement.

The Tommy Smith I'm writing about is clearly partly the mid '70's version but essentially the one that I still savour above all is the slimline, athletic, speedy, ultra-skilful marauding destroyer terrorising forwards with his peerless tacking [emulated though never equalled in a red shirt by lawrenson and mascherano] and then surging forward with innate skill and poise to spray a 30 yard pass to Thompson or callaghan or a through ball to Hunt.

Priceless.

Funnily enough, it's only as I think back through all the great sides and great defenders we've had that I can properly fit into its rightful context and perspective the immensity of Tommy Smith and his footballing ability. Not that I've never not had it in mind as to how great he was but it's only when you start to reflect on just what he brought to the table and compare that package with the packages brought by the likes of Jocky hansen, lawrenson, Jamie carragher and sami and even Emlyn Hughes that I can safely conclude just how far ahead of those players Smithy truly was.

Amazing how so few of our newer fans have been made aware of the reality of Tommy Smith in the context of this club.

Offline McrRed

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Alright, confession time...I'm one of those in need of enlightenment. I first saw him in the 70s and even that later version did enough to become one of my favourite players. That Euro final header is one of my favourite goals ever.

What must it have been like to see the version you talk about!

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Alright, confession time...I'm one of those in need of enlightenment. I first saw him in the 70s and even that later version did enough to become one of my favourite players. That Euro final header is one of my favourite goals ever.

What must it have been like to see the version you talk about!

If you get the You Tube of the Inter Milan '65 semi final at Anfield and the '65 Fa Cup Final you'll see the slimline tonic version. His play speaks for itself.

Honestly if that version of Smithy was available today we'd be talking 60 million for a defender and every club in Europe would be after him. He could do everything. And better than anybody else.

I haven't touched on the Bobby Moore thing as it tends to make me seem a mite bitter and I don't want to disrespect the great man. He was a wonderful defender as the evidence verifies, possibly with Beckenbauer the finest ever reader of the game. However, his England place owed as much to the Dagenham bias of his manager, his golden boy image and London media bias as it did to his undoubted abilities regarding which, game reading apart, I'd say were all a level or so below those of Tommy Smith. 

Offline Les Willis

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I'm 44. The first season as a fan that I can truly remember is 1978, I don't think that I was interested in football prior to that. I'm not sure when Smith stopped playing regularly for Liverpool, but as far as I remember Phil Thompson and Alan Hansen were the main centre backs during that year. I think that Emlyn Hughes may still have been there that season, but I can't remember that much about Tommy Smith.

Actually, I've googled it and he left Liverpool in 1978 and was playing for Swansea in the 1978-79 season. I vaguely remember that and I think that Swansea may have been my 2nd team that season.. ;D

The reason players like Smith aren't as focussed on is just becasue people tend to focus only on the eras that they have seen. As the majority on here are probably younger than me (and I can't really remember much of Smith), then he's bound to come a way down the list.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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I'm 44. The first season as a fan that I can truly remember is 1978, I don't think that I was interested in football prior to that. I'm not sure when Smith stopped playing regularly for Liverpool, but as far as I remember Phil Thompson and Alan Hansen were the main centre backs during that year. I think that Emlyn Hughes may still have been there that season, but I can't remember that much about Tommy Smith.

Actually, I've googled it and he left Liverpool in 1978 and was playing for Swansea in the 1978-79 season. I vaguely remember that and I think that Swansea may have been my 2nd team that season.. ;D

The reason players like Smith aren't as focussed on is just becasue people tend to focus only on the eras that they have seen. As the majority on here are probably younger than me (and I can't really remember much of Smith), then he's bound to come a way down the list.

You're absolutely right of course. But I guess the point I'm making is that opinions that aren't informed by at least having made the effort to know what's gone before are not as reliable as those that have made the effort.

Elisha Scott finished playing in the early '30's some 20 years before I was born. IMHO along with Ray Clemence he's the Red's finest ever keeper. I learnt bits about him from my old fella and loads more reading up on him. It means I've got at least some context when I make a judgement on red's keepers.

That's why I've put up this Tommy Smith thread.

Most seem to think he was simply a hard man or an overweight bulky right back who created two goals in the '74 cup final and scored a great header in Rome.

I'm airing the viewpoint of a fan who grew up with the guy and consider him in the Liverpool pantheon to be at a level just marginally below the likes of dalglish, barnesey, Keegan and Stevie G.

Offline DaveLFC

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2014, 07:03:01 pm »
I am much more an Emlyn Hughes man, as such I have little time for Mr Smith. I think I should leave it there.
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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2014, 07:06:49 pm »
Outstanding Post Timbo!  Keep em' coming.  :wave
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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2014, 11:47:40 pm »
That goal in Rome was I think going to be in his last game for the club, so it was true fairytale stuff, think of JC scoring a goal in his last game for the club to help LFC win their first ever European cup.

He really is a legend, a Liverpool lad playing for his home town club for nearly all his career and scoring that crucial second goal in CL final.

He deserves to be up there in the top ten of LFC legends possibly above Jamie.

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2014, 12:17:44 am »
I definitely put him down as our best defender. For me apart from the brick wall tackles the main part of his game I (and all me mates at school) appreciated, was his passing ability. He could hit a daisy-cutter pass seemingly from one side of the pitch to the other with pinpoint accuracy - and he had two feet!

As a hard-man he was a legend Playing one European night with a broken knee-cap I seem to remember - and he scored a pen if memory serves. And I always remember him in a wall receiving an absolute rocket of a free kick right in the mush (and that was with a real ball), and I mean right on the nose - I can still hear the thud! He just shook his head Popeye style and carried on, to much chuckling on the Kop.
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Offline ALPH1217

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2014, 12:42:55 am »
Saw his entire career and was always amazed that he just won 1 cap for England (I think that's right.)

Offline kavah

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2014, 12:53:34 am »
Thanks Timbo, great post, I'm certainly one who under appreciates Tommy, your post in the best centre halfs thread really made me think about him yesterday.
Any one else go to his testimonial? some lad from my school won the penalty prize at half time. It was a sweltering night as a full house came to pay homage to our European cup winner, happy days. I went to one of those sportman's dinners a while back and Ron Harris said almost word word what you said about him, about Tommy's Anfield iron image clouding people's memories about his footballing skill and value to the team.

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2014, 04:21:00 am »
I'm 52 but the first game I ever saw was in 1970 so I missed his time in the sixties. It's funny you know, all these years I've always thought of him as a left back even though I remember the '74 cup final and Alec Lindsay's disallowed goal from the LB position and Tommy's role in Keegan's goal from the right. He's always been a left back. Can't explain why.

You're right Timbo, he's chronically neglected but not just because of the hard-man image I believe, but also because of the lack of quality TV coverage of the man at his best. How are the younger section of our support ever going to learn or know about him if all they get is - what is considered by today's HD standards - grainy footage.

If there was a way that someone in RAWK could pull together some games of his and make them available I think that would be really useful. In fact, not just of him but also of some of the lesser-known players from our past. And before anyone asks why I don't do it myself, the reason is I'm a lazy bastard.

As you suggested, I'm watching the Inter game from '65. They had a player by the name of Luis Suarez who they bought from Barcelona. Spooky.
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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2014, 06:21:57 am »
Smith was pretty much a one-man team while Shankly was rebuilding. He held things together until Kevin Keegan came along and took them to a new level. Not a man I'd like to share a drink with but one of the best the club ever had.

Offline KennyVialli

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2014, 08:45:28 am »
Saw his entire career and was always amazed that he just won 1 cap for England (I think that's right.)

Yeah, it wasn't just Smithy who was overlooked. The team that won 2 leagues, an FA Cup, European cup semi finalists and Cup winners cup finalists, The Liverpool team as printed in the programme..........

Lawrence 3 caps
Lawler      4 caps
Byne        2 caps
Milne        14 caps
Yeats        2 caps
Stevenson 0 caps
Callaghan   4 caps
Hunt         34 caps
St John     14 caps
Smith         1 cap
Thompson 16 caps
Strong       0 caps

Those facts are scandelous. Could never understand why one of the finest teams in European football could muster only a handful of caps between them!!

Smithy's skills and lack of appreciation outside of Anfield were recognised by the faithful cos we sang a slow dirge in recognition of his silky skills, it was simply "Tommy Smiths - football"


I am much more an Emlyn Hughes man, as such I have little time for Mr Smith. I think I should leave it there.

Hmmm, Forgot all about this spat. Not sure i even want toremember, not in either corner, both great players...... bit of a shame.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2014, 08:56:10 am »
Well done Timbo. Needed to be said mate.

Hard he was. But the idea that Tommy belongs in the same category as other legendary 'hard men' of the 60s and 70s like Norman Hunter or Chopper Harris is something that needs ditching. Tommy could play as well as stop others playing.

You can see it in the famous two-nil down, three-two up derby in 1971. Tommy gets caught on the ball for Everton's first but rather than resorting to the hoof upfield he continues - Agger like - to play it out from the back. Ten minutes or so later he elegantly waltzes past two Everton attackers before setting Heighway free on the left for the start of the come back.

Kopites loved him because he could make a monkey out of an opposing attacker, and not just because he sent them home black and blue. 
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Offline Runehammer

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2014, 10:13:08 am »
Spot on Timbo, Tommy was a proper footballer.

I read your post in the centre-half thread where you mentioned him, I don't really think of him as a centre half as his starting era was around the transition from 1 centre half and 2 half backs 2 the flat back four.  In some ways Shanks utilised Tommy as a prototype DM altho' I guess he was given much more freedom to roam.

I'd say he was pretty much the walking embodiment of the "this is Anfield" sign back in the day!

Offline stjohn65

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2014, 10:26:15 am »
I am much more an Emlyn Hughes man, as such I have little time for Mr Smith. I think I should leave it there.
Don't think we have to be one or the other - it's perfectly possible to like both. Very different characters, very different footballers, but they had in common the same devotion to that red shirt and all it stood for - in fact they helped define it. That's far more important than any personality differences. I couldn't bear Emlyn's love for Thatcher, didn't stop me loving the man as a Liverpool legend. To say we have 'little time' for anyone of that stature doesn't sit right.
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Offline the 92A

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2014, 12:15:06 pm »
It's great when someone says something that really makes you think and you're right but it's not just the youngsters, I watched him from late sixties onwards and the first thing that comes into my mind is him crunching into someone who'd just done Heighway, or him battling Dave Mckay but you forget how well he could play with the ball and his positional sense in a few proper ball playing teams. I suppose we had such a feast to behold that at times we took for granted that he could do the football stuff really well and concentrated on what made him stand out rather than appreciate his all around skills. But, once it's pointed out anyone who watched him gets it straight away, he was never just a Joey Jones, who I  loved by the way, he was never a cult hero because he was far too good for that, the hardman was in addition to his football not in place of his football skills even if he was the worlds narkiest man.
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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2014, 12:31:06 pm »
I remember Tommy Smith playing for our reserves before he broke into the first team against West Have. Clive Best a massive man was ploughing through our midfield without much presure, heading into our penalty box.. As we had a young side who appeared feared of Best. In steps Tommy Smith with a 50, 50 tackle against Best.
A crunching tackle, Best who was twice the size of Smith ended up in a heap and the ball ended up deep in West Hams area. Smith had the heart of a Lion and as previously mentioned due to his hardman image, his skill of reading the game, delivering a beaut of a pass and often scoring is often over looked.

Offline gorwar61

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2014, 01:39:51 pm »
Tommy Smith once said it took him 10 seconds to get a reputation as a hard man, and 10 years to lose it.

A superb footballer, but the hardness was also a part of his game. "Smith took a little nibble, and then he had a bite"

This, though, for me is the epitome of Tommy Smith, the player:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/yEJVHEPEVMs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/yEJVHEPEVMs</a>
I got sacked from my paper round that day for turning in after we won the cup final, the owner of the shop (Bitter Blue) sacked me because he said I should of missed the second half. Tw*t! It was a great game and Tommy Smith was much more than a hard man, his goal in the 77 European Cup Final for me was the greatest send off he could of wished for! True Legend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNeYYhpLme0

Offline I-was-watching-it-on-Sky

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2014, 01:53:40 pm »
It seems to me that for most people their basic outlook is formed [in large part] by absorbing the atmosphere of people around them and people's view of Tommy Smith has been formed [mostly] in times past.

There was a time when the 'hard man' of the team was a specific job and was looked upon very favourably, even in society in general the hard man wasn't exactly a bad thing.

I remember from the late 50's through to the mid 70's [when I moved away from Liverpool] having a bit of a rep as a 'hard' man gave you a much easier life.

To be honest...back then...football was a lot more 'industrial' than it is now, so the prevailing attitude of the time wasn't to croon over silky skills but  there was a general appreciation for the 'hard man'.

I'm never going to say Tommy Smith wasn't a good footballer and he is under appreciated by today's standards...but he was very much appreciated by the standards of his time. 
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 02:02:53 pm by I-was-there »
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Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2014, 11:31:18 am »
Heartwarming to read some of the responses - and most especially the odd few who were too young to have seen the slimline mid '60's Tommy Smith in his pomp but seemed genuinely pleased - and surprised - enough as to the majesty of the man in those peak years of his career to post a response expressing that.

I guess the downside is much as I expected. Relative apathy from the huge bulk of our modern day internet fanbase for a footballer whose defensive platform  if available today - more so than with any other past Liverpool defender - would offer the current squad with its attacking potential a genuine chance of one or both of the major honours.

Yeah, Smithy wek in week out was THAT good.

Ah well. here's still hoping.


Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2014, 11:35:41 am »
It seems to me that for most people their basic outlook is formed [in large part] by absorbing the atmosphere of people around them and people's view of Tommy Smith has been formed [mostly] in times past.

There was a time when the 'hard man' of the team was a specific job and was looked upon very favourably, even in society in general the hard man wasn't exactly a bad thing.

I remember from the late 50's through to the mid 70's [when I moved away from Liverpool] having a bit of a rep as a 'hard' man gave you a much easier life.

To be honest...back then...football was a lot more 'industrial' than it is now, so the prevailing attitude of the time wasn't to croon over silky skills but  there was a general appreciation for the 'hard man'.

I'm never going to say Tommy Smith wasn't a good footballer and he is under appreciated by today's standards...but he was very much appreciated by the standards of his time. 

I must have watched different games to you mate.

georgie Best?

Thommo?

St John?

Alec Young?

Jimmy McIlroy?

Charlie Cooke?

Eddie Gray?

Jimmy Johnstone?

Jim Baxter?

Jimmy Greaves?

John White?

Bobby Charlton?

Willie Stevo?

Peter Osgood?

Bleeding hell - I'm drooling all over the fuckin keyboard...

 ;D

« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 11:49:44 am by Timbo's Goals »

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2014, 11:59:08 am »
Thanks Timbo, great post, I'm certainly one who under appreciates Tommy, your post in the best centre halfs thread really made me think about him yesterday.
Any one else go to his testimonial? some lad from my school won the penalty prize at half time. It was a sweltering night as a full house came to pay homage to our European cup winner, happy days. I went to one of those sportman's dinners a while back and Ron Harris said almost word word what you said about him, about Tommy's Anfield iron image clouding people's memories about his footballing skill and value to the team.

Took me old fella - god rest his soul.

We sat at the front of the Kemlyn Road down the Kop end.

my abiding memory was the amazing wit from the Kop.

The score was ridiculous and the Kop began singing over and over

"We want a scoreboard, we want a scoreboard..."

Then they switched their demands to one of parity with Everton...

"Everton have got one, Everton have got one"

Then came the killer which had the entire ground fans, players and match officials convulsing in laughter

"They never fuckin use it, They never fuckin use it"

Priceless memories.

 :)



Offline Haemoglobin

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2014, 12:00:08 pm »
I picked the Anfield Iron in my Great Britain & Ireland draft on here a couple of years or so ago. I've always rated him, despite his retiring before I was even born.

I think the footballer and the man should in most cases be considered as separate entities, but perhaps his legacy is coloured (for want of a better word!) somewhat by some rather unsavoury racial comments he made when interviewed for a book about Digger in the late 80s. The private conversation was taped by the author who then made his remarks public, and kept the tape safe to use as evidence should he ever be legally challenged (which some have argued is the act of a snide). I was very disappointed to read about it all, to say the least, and hope Smith has since amended his worldview. Was a fucking great defender in his pomp, nonetheless.
"under-promise and over-deliver"

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2014, 12:01:47 pm »
I picked the Anfield Iron in my Great Britain & Ireland draft on here a couple of years or so ago. I've always rated him, despite his retiring before I was even born.

I think the footballer and the man should in most cases be considered as separate entities, but perhaps his legacy is coloured (for want of a better word!) somewhat by some rather unsavoury racial comments he made when interviewed for a book about Digger in the late 80s. The private conversation was taped by the author who then made his remarks public, and kept the tape safe to use as evidence should he ever be legally challenged (which some have argued is the act of a snide). I was very disappointed to read about it all, to say the least, and hope Smith has since amended his worldview. Was a fucking great defender in his pomp, nonetheless.

I must have missed all that H.

can't think how.

Was it racist or something like that?

Offline Haemoglobin

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2014, 12:07:10 pm »
Yeah mate. Made me sad to read, 'cause I'd grown up with all the stories and the VHS videos, and I loved the hardfaced bastard.

I don't really want to post the comments here, but they are present on his Wikipedia article, sourced. Like I say, a lot of fellas from that time were of the same mindset, I can only hope he's become more enlightened in the years following. Still unpleasant to think he saw things that way in the era of Barnes and Howard Gayle.  :(
"under-promise and over-deliver"

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2014, 12:07:15 pm »
I picked the Anfield Iron in my Great Britain & Ireland draft on here a couple of years or so ago. I've always rated him, despite his retiring before I was even born.


Good on you for that H

I can assure you he was a finer footballer and defender than Bobby Moore for all Bobby's peerless ability at reading the game. Smithy was simply the finer footballer - tackling, dribbling, passing, heading, braveness, - you name it apart from reading the game.

The only defender I've ever seen who I'd put above Tommy Smith [that's the mid '60's Smith I must stress as the later full back version good as he was, was not at the same level] is the one and only Franz beckenbauer who was one of those once in lifetime footballers blessed from above like Pele, Best, Maradona and Zidane.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 12:10:16 pm by Timbo's Goals »

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2014, 12:11:36 pm »
I must have watched different games to you mate.

Rodney Marsh, Tony Currie, Stanley Bowles, Duncan MacKenzie, Bertie Auld, Glen Hoddle, chippy Brady, Alan Devonshire, Dennis Tueart, Alan Hudson, Frankie Worthington, Peter Knowles, Alan Gilzean, Bobby Murdoch, Stevie Heighway (on the wing), Leighton James (Is Tommy Smith fit?) , Dave Thomas (pull your f*cking socks up if you don't want to get hurt)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 12:14:06 pm by Yorkykopite »
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2014, 12:28:23 pm »
Yeah mate. Made me sad to read, 'cause I'd grown up with all the stories and the VHS videos, and I loved the hardfaced bastard.

I don't really want to post the comments here, but they are present on his Wikipedia article, sourced. Like I say, a lot of fellas from that time were of the same mindset, I can only hope he's become more enlightened in the years following. Still unpleasant to think he saw things that way in the era of Barnes and Howard Gayle.  :(

To be honest it wouldn't surprise me. I've never regarded him as a particularly pleasant man off the pitch - and he certainly wasn't pleasant on it. I've got it in my mind he was a bit of a right wing working class Tory - me grandad was one and more than a few older work colleagues I've come across. They tend to have pretty mixed up and unbalanced perspectives which I think - from my own observations - seems to come from a desperation to believe they've shaken off their lowly roots. 

Timbo pseudo psychologist, signing off.

 :)

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2014, 12:29:59 pm »
Rodney Marsh, Tony Currie, Stanley Bowles, Duncan MacKenzie, Bertie Auld, Glen Hoddle, chippy Brady, Alan Devonshire, Dennis Tueart, Alan Hudson, Frankie Worthington, Peter Knowles, Alan Gilzean, Bobby Murdoch, Stevie Heighway (on the wing), Leighton James (Is Tommy Smith fit?) , Dave Thomas (pull your f*cking socks up if you don't want to get hurt)

Drool.., and more drool

 ;D


Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2014, 12:36:13 pm »
Leighton James (Is Tommy Smith fit?)

That particular er..relationship.. had to be the funniest on field ever. Leighton james would be constantly legging it in the opposite direction to wherever Smithy was, repeatedly looking behind to see if Smithy had crept up on him. It was like a Looney Tunes episode.

 ;D


Offline Stubbins

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2014, 02:06:21 pm »
Rodney Marsh, Tony Currie, Stanley Bowles, Duncan MacKenzie, Bertie Auld, Glen Hoddle, chippy Brady, Alan Devonshire, Dennis Tueart, Alan Hudson, Frankie Worthington, Peter Knowles, Alan Gilzean, Bobby Murdoch, Stevie Heighway (on the wing), Leighton James (Is Tommy Smith fit?) , Dave Thomas (pull your f*cking socks up if you don't want to get hurt)

Couple of Celtic lads there but surprisingly no Jimmy Johnstone, Yorky? Last seen adrift on a rowboat!

Great players one and all and they could all hold their own against the recognised hard men of the day - ok Leighton aside.

I remember a match at Anfield in the 70s against Leicester City, who at that time were a bit of a bogey side. They got a free kick on the edge of our box and Keith Weller tried to force himself into the 'wall' that our lads had set up. Cue our Tommy trying to forcibly eject him with a series of punches to his back (back of his head?!) as I recall and Weller, in fairness, standing his ground and using his elbows to good effect on Smithy.

Don't think either got booked. Though Weller should have been booked on the occasions he played in white tights for bringing the game into disrepute.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2014, 02:28:09 pm »
Couple of Celtic lads there but surprisingly no Jimmy Johnstone, Yorky? Last seen adrift on a rowboat!

Great players one and all and they could all hold their own against the recognised hard men of the day - ok Leighton aside.

I remember a match at Anfield in the 70s against Leicester City, who at that time were a bit of a bogey side. They got a free kick on the edge of our box and Keith Weller tried to force himself into the 'wall' that our lads had set up. Cue our Tommy trying to forcibly eject him with a series of punches to his back (back of his head?!) as I recall and Weller, in fairness, standing his ground and using his elbows to good effect on Smithy.

Don't think either got booked. Though Weller should have been booked on the occasions he played in white tights for bringing the game into disrepute.

Er...Hmmph

 ;D

I must have watched different games to you mate.

georgie Best?

Thommo?

St John?

Alec Young?

Jimmy McIlroy?

Charlie Cooke?

Eddie Gray?

Jimmy Johnstone?

Jim Baxter?

Jimmy Greaves?

John White?

Bobby Charlton?

Willie Stevo?

Peter Osgood?

Bleeding hell - I'm drooling all over the fuckin keyboard...

 ;D



Offline Stubbins

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Re: Tommy Smith - Can at least we as Liverpudlians get it right about him
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2014, 02:43:38 pm »

There he is!

Sorry, I had to find my reading glasses.