Topic: Never mind 'Stop the Boats' - STOP THE TORIES

[Red Raw]

Far from it. I appreciate you taking the time to reply.
Excellent.

I agree with most of your points. My point about profits flowing offshore is based on local experience talking to a few others that have solar installed. They seemed to have rented their roofs to overseas , european companies. Mainly Spanish I think.

There were a lot of PV-for-free/rent-a-roof schemes once people cottoned on to the fact that the tariffs were grandfathered. As well as the sharks, a lot of community energy and social housing groups were able to use the FIT income to install panels on some of the crappiest homes. Tenants were usually given the solar energy for free while and the additional income which they used to improve energy efficiency etc - so not all of it went overseas.

I can't agree with your 40% figure though. I'm sure the tech has improved vastly since we had ours installed, but even then I'd be sceptical of 40% even if I lived in the SW with an South facing roof. I might entertain the idea if you were to let me store the electricity but that is pricey too.

I wouldn't contradict your own experience obviously, but the proportion of self-consumption can be quite sensitive to the amount of time that people are at home.

I have seen figures for several hundred homes different sizes and different orientations, where self-consumption was about 36% based on assumption that homes on average were occupied about half the day. This could be improved by load shifting/using timers to make the most of daytime generation while batteries remain uneconomic for most small generators. As the penetration of EVs increases over the coming years we can expect to see this percentage increase considerably.

Panel load factors are broadly the same at around 10-11% but capacities have increased. A standard panel today is about 250 W (compared to maybe 180-200 W 10 years ago) so a typical semi could host a 12 panel installation giving 3 kW. In Sheffield (geographical centre of the UK), an unshaded, south facing installation like this should generate about 2,700 kWh a year.

I'm kind of shooting myself in the foot , as this makes 10 year payback seem even less likely. So maybe FIT should have stayed longer. Or argubly have been much larger early on to draw more people away from being dependent on energy imports and , like you say, encouraging the infrastructure to improve.

The tariffs were designed to give a ROI of around 7% and were degressed as installation/panel costs came down. At the time there was considerable uncertainty about the technology and 7% was seen as a sensible hurdle rate. If the tariffs had been too high at the outset we could have fallen foul of competition laws and would have been overpaying on early installations today. Poor quality government modelling meant that degression announcements were generally handled very badly and caused havoc in the trade as people rushed to get in before the tariffs dropped. The disruption affected supply chains causing shortages of everything from inverters down to the clips and rails used for fixing.

Ironically the whole concept of replacing upfront grants with a system of tariffs was supposed to prevent this kind of 'boom and bustiness' which is so damaging to industry and makes long term investment decisions really difficult. 

I will add that in my opinion it would have been better to keep reducing the tariffs but to keep them in place for longer. I think the graph below sums up pretty well what has happened to domestic PV. The 2016 cliff edge is when tariffs were slashed by about 70% renderering most small installations uneconomic, while the spike in 2019 is the last gasp before FITS were were binned altogether. Earlier spikes correspond to degression announcements and changes which complicated the scheme. There are similar graphs for other measures like insulation mostly due to the inadequacy of energy policies from 'Green Crap' Cameron and Osborne.



I haven't done the sums yet but the current energy prices are expected to be with us for at least a couple of years and combined with the increase in homeworking the economic arguments for PV are probably shifting. Unfortunately as we drift into recession the reduction in disposable income is likely to hit 'non-essential' expenditure on projects like PV and energy efficiency.

[oldfordie]

Living in a crap 1 bedroom flat in a bad area and voting Republican as they are on the side of people who get rich so they can carry on dreaming.
Am sure there's a lot of truth in that but I think the majority never stop to question the Republican scare storys, many are just selfish bas,,
Watched a Republican Obama care protest over 10yrs ago, interviewing protesters, some of their views are shocking. one woman in particular was scary  "If people want health care then they should pay for it themselves. am not having any god dam commie stealing money from my pay packet"

[Jiminy Cricket]

Living in a crap 1 bedroom flat in a bad area and voting Republican as they are on the side of people who get rich so they can carry on dreaming.
Am sure there's a lot of truth in that but I think the majority never stop to question the Republican scare storys, many are just selfish bas,,
Watched a Republican Obama care protest over 10yrs ago, interviewing protesters, some of their views are shocking. one woman in particular was scary  "If people want health care then they should pay for it themselves. am not having any god dam commie stealing money from my pay packet"

The US does go in a different direction to any other nation with which they might be reasonably compared. You are probably familiar with the phrase 'American Exceptionalism'. In regular usage, it is generally meant to indicate 'better' than any other nation. But, when originally coined (by a Frenchman), it was meant to convey that America operated 'differently' to other nations; that it is structurally and culturally distinct. I think this is correct - it is different in many ways, including a heightened culture of individualism (and self-reliance) when compared to other Western nations. I don't agree with the philosophy, but I understand it and even can appreciate its appeal. But this hyper-individualism is at odds with the regularly espoused views - very often by the same people - of 'Christian values'. But - speaking as an ex-Catholic - it is surely inevitable that hyper-individualism generally leads to a lack of humanity and is surely antithetical to Christian core doctrine. People - everywhere - are so wedded to their (micro-)culture, even when it is contradictory and makes absolutely no sense.

Having said all that, I think things are changing there. I think this generation of younger people are looking towsards a more collective nation. I think! Assuming the lunatics are prevented from turning the nation into dictatorship in the nearer future, I have to believe things there will get better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

I am rambling and probably talking a load of bollocks. I am not even drunk. Consume with a pinch of salt.

[oldfordie]

The US does go in a different direction to any other nation with which they might be reasonably compared. You are probably familiar with the phrase 'American Exceptionalism'. In regular usage, it is generally meant to indicate 'better' than any other nation. But, when originally coined (by a Frenchman), it was meant to convey that America operated 'differently' to other nations; that it is structurally and culturally distinct. I think this is correct - it is different in many ways, including a heightened culture of individualism (and self-reliance) when compared to other Western nations. I don't agree with the philosophy, but I understand it and even can appreciate its appeal. But this hyper-individualism is at odds with the regularly espoused views - very often by the same people - of 'Christian values'. But - speaking as an ex-Catholic - it is surely inevitable that hyper-individualism generally leads to a lack of humanity and is surely antithetical to Christian core doctrine. People - everywhere - are so wedded to their (micro-)culture, even when it is contradictory and makes absolutely no sense.

Having said all that, I think things are changing there. I think this generation of younger people are looking towsards a more collective nation. I think! Assuming the lunatics are prevented from turning the nation into dictatorship in the nearer future, I have to believe things there will get better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

I am rambling and probably talking a load of bollocks. I am not even drunk. Consume with a pinch of salt.

Am sure your right. if you went by polling on different issues then the US would have more stricter gun laws and a caring Welfare service and NHS type health service but other issues come into play when elections are held . from the VOX pops ive seen the situation in the US is similar to the UK, many Republican voters know  sod all about the people they vote for as they all live in their bubble getting their bias confirmation news off Fox news etc etc. all been covered, from Trump to Qanon CTs.
It's going to be a big few yrs for the US. the bookies seem to think the Republicans will gain control of the House and the Senate over the next few yrs.
I had given up on justice for Jan 6th riots. todays news from the Jan6th Committee seemed far more positive. hopefully scares the crap out of many Republicans including Trump.

[ShakaHislop]

Starmer is preparing to axe Labour’s commitment to scrapping tuition fees, according to the FT: https://ft.com/content/44df4156-c035-4b0f-b576-b79fdd13b23c

Scrapping tuition fees was another one of Keir Starmer’s pledges when running for the Labour leadership.

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1537721912062771200

[Wild Romany Boy]

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1537721912062771200

I can see the logic, but that's disappointing.

[Father Ted]

Didn't even know there were any pledges left intact to break to be honest.

[No666]

He needs to lower the interest rate then.

[PaulF]

I will add that in my opinion it would have been better to keep reducing the tariffs but to keep them in place for longer. I think the graph below sums up pretty well what has happened to domestic PV. The 2016 cliff edge is when tariffs were slashed by about 70% renderering most small installations uneconomic, while the spike in 2019 is the last gasp before FITS were were binned altogether. Earlier spikes correspond to degression announcements and changes which complicated the scheme. There are similar graphs for other measures like insulation mostly due to the inadequacy of energy policies from 'Green Crap' Cameron and Osborne.



I haven't done the sums yet but the current energy prices are expected to be with us for at least a couple of years and combined with the increase in homeworking the economic arguments for PV are probably shifting. Unfortunately as we drift into recession the reduction in disposable income is likely to hit 'non-essential' expenditure on projects like PV and energy efficiency.

I think I am misunderstanding your 40% . Are you saying 40% of solar electricity (can) be used by the householder. OR that the solar provides 40% of the electric needed.  The first figure seems reasonable.
The second is badly skewed for us as we have an electric car too

[Nobby Reserve]

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1537721912062771200

"The creatures outside looked from Tory to Labour, and from Labour to Tory, and from Tory to Labour again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

[filopastry]

"The creatures outside looked from Tory to Labour, and from Labour to Tory, and from Tory to Labour again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

If I wanted to spend money in this country axing tuition fees wouldn't be close to the top of the list, to be honest if I wanted to spend the money on education generally it wouldn't be top of the list.

[Nobby Reserve]

If I wanted to spend money in this country axing tuition fees wouldn't be close to the top of the list, to be honest if I wanted to spend the money on education generally it wouldn't be top of the list.

It's just another step toward apeing Tory policy, though, on the major/radical topics.

All we need now is a pledge to stick to Tory tax and spending budgets for the first three years of any Labour government...

[filopastry]

It's just another step toward apeing Tory policy, though, on the major/radical topics.

All we need now is a pledge to stick to Tory tax and spending budgets for the first three years of any Labour government...

I'm not sure it is a major topic, I would like to see lower interest rates on student debt and more assistance for those from poorer backgrounds and those who go on to work in public services after their degree. But universal free university education is largely a bung to the middle classes. Would rather spend on early years education/collapsing NHS/ social care/ etc etc.

Right now we have escalating taxes and shitty public services through underfunding, its only going to get worse with an aging population, you need to pick your priorities.

Just my opinion and I know its not a popular one on here!

[PaulF]

"The creatures outside looked from Tory to Labour, and from Labour to Tory, and from Tory to Labour again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

oooh, a literary reference I get

[TheShanklyGates]

I'm not sure it is a major topic, I would like to see lower interest rates on student debt and more assistance for those from poorer backgrounds and those who go on to work in public services after their degree. But universal free university education is largely a bung to the middle classes. Would rather spend on early years education/collapsing NHS/ social care/ etc etc.

Right now we have escalating taxes and shitty public services through underfunding, its only going to get worse with an aging population, you need to pick your priorities.

Just my opinion and I know its not a popular one on here!

It may not the number one priority topic but it's certainly one of huge symbolic importance. The Lib Dems still haven't recovered from breaking their pledge on tuition fees. Don't agree that it should be either/or as well.

[PaulF]

I'm not sure it is a major topic, I would like to see lower interest rates on student debt and more assistance for those from poorer backgrounds and those who go on to work in public services after their degree. But universal free university education is largely a bung to the middle classes. Would rather spend on early years education/collapsing NHS/ social care/ etc etc.

Right now we have escalating taxes and shitty public services through underfunding, its only going to get worse with an aging population, you need to pick your priorities.

Just my opinion and I know its not a popular one on here!

I was thinking the other day. We are going to have to accept our "standard of living" falling. Essentially less money in our pocket , mostly as a consequence of global events, in a way that no party can fully shield us.
Is now the right time to look at what constitutes "standard of living"? Better to have clean air, ambulances that people don't die waiting for, good basic education for all, public service employees that feel valued. Or do we continue down the path where a new car every three years, a skiing trip and the latest iphone are what makes us happy.

[lobsterboy]

I'm not sure it is a major topic, I would like to see lower interest rates on student debt and more assistance for those from poorer backgrounds and those who go on to work in public services after their degree. But universal free university education is largely a bung to the middle classes. Would rather spend on early years education/collapsing NHS/ social care/ etc etc.

Right now we have escalating taxes and shitty public services through underfunding, its only going to get worse with an aging population, you need to pick your priorities.

Just my opinion and I know its not a popular one on here!

Brexit has wrecked the economy, the pound is tanking and the Tories have stolen all the public money for their mates.
Its only going to get worse between now and any election as Johnson ramps up his criminal behaviour.
Labour are going to have a real shit show to fix if they get into power. Student loans won't be top of the agenda.

[Nobby Reserve]

If I were Labour, my priority would be to figure out how to grab a major slice of the money and assets hidden through the 'UK Financial Spiders Web' in places like Cayman, Virgin Islands, Channel Islands, Isle of Man, Gibraltar, Belize, etc.

A punitive 'windfall tax' - ideally around 50% - on all assets, in lieu of all the tax dodged over the years would theoretically raise Łhundreds of billions.

Finding a way to do so would be the tricky part 

[Father Ted]

I'm not sure it is a major topic, I would like to see lower interest rates on student debt and more assistance for those from poorer backgrounds and those who go on to work in public services after their degree. But universal free university education is largely a bung to the middle classes. Would rather spend on early years education/collapsing NHS/ social care/ etc etc.

Right now we have escalating taxes and shitty public services through underfunding, its only going to get worse with an aging population, you need to pick your priorities.

Just my opinion and I know its not a popular one on here!

I agree with plenty of that but current Labour never actually outline what they want to do about this or any other issue, so it's left to the imagination of the individual as to what it is they're standing for (whatever the focus groups tell them, if I'm being cynical) - it's just a load of vague nothingess, plus past policies and possibilities being taken off the table as being unattainable/impossible/can't be arsed mate.

At some stage they'll have to show what they're actually for rather than coasting on the "I'm not Corbyn (even though I pretended to be to win my job)" angle.

[PaulF]

If I were Labour, my priority would be to figure out how to grab a major slice of the money and assets hidden through the 'UK Financial Spiders Web' in places like Cayman, Virgin Islands, Channel Islands, Isle of Man, Gibraltar, Belize, etc.

A punitive 'windfall tax' - ideally around 50% - on all assets, in lieu of all the tax dodged over the years would theoretically raise Łhundreds of billions.

Finding a way to do so would be the tricky part 

Start by saying we are going after russian assets. And just see what's discovered en route. I suspect though it will be moved out of reach before we even get close ☹️

[lobsterboy]

If I were Labour, my priority would be to figure out how to grab a major slice of the money and assets hidden through the 'UK Financial Spiders Web' in places like Cayman, Virgin Islands, Channel Islands, Isle of Man, Gibraltar, Belize, etc.

A punitive 'windfall tax' - ideally around 50% - on all assets, in lieu of all the tax dodged over the years would theoretically raise Łhundreds of billions.

Finding a way to do so would be the tricky part 

Starmer (or any leader) would have an unfortunate accident, possibly auto-erotic based, if he ever proposed and got near to pulling that off.
That money is worth trillions to the kind of people who don't give anything away.

[filopastry]

I agree with plenty of that but current Labour never actually outline what they want to do about this or any other issue, so it's left to the imagination of the individual as to what it is they're standing for (whatever the focus groups tell them, if I'm being cynical) - it's just a load of vague nothingess, plus past policies and possibilities being taken off the table as being unattainable/impossible/can't be arsed mate.

At some stage they'll have to show what they're actually for rather than coasting on the "I'm not Corbyn (even though I pretended to be to win my job)" angle.

I would imagine all we will see is pretty soundbites anytime soon, I doubt anything will be fleshed out too strongly pre manifesto, to stop the Tories nicking anything half decent and passing off as their own, but I totally agree they need a better more compelling narrative, they have struggled with that for a long time though.

[Gili Gulu]

Something's happening with Boris. He's just canceled an appearance at a "Red Wall" conference with Northern Tories at the last minute. Apparently, we're going to find out why in the next couple of hours.

[PaulF]

Something's happening with Boris. He's just canceled an appearance at a "Red Wall" conference with Northern Tories at the last minute. Apparently, we're going to find out why in the next couple of hours.

Probably a Pimm's party at #10

[Robinred]

Probably a Pimm's party at #10

More likely he’s announcing appointing himself as the new Ethics adviser. Cuts out the middle man.

[John C]

More likely he’s announcing appointing himself as the new Ethics adviser. Cuts out the middle man.

[ToneLa]

Something's happening with Boris. He's just canceled an appearance at a "Red Wall" conference with Northern Tories at the last minute. Apparently, we're going to find out why in the next couple of hours.

Probably trying to abolish ever having elections

[Nobby Reserve]

Maybe he's dead

 

[Red-Soldier]

Something's happening with Boris. He's just canceled an appearance at a "Red Wall" conference with Northern Tories at the last minute. Apparently, we're going to find out why in the next couple of hours.

It's his birthday on Sunday, probably off on a short break to the Med.

[eddymunster]

It's his birthday on Sunday, probably off on a short break to the Med.

He's gone to Kiev, probably on instruction from his Russian backers to try and convince Ukraine not to join the EU.

[Sangria]

More likely he’s announcing appointing himself as the new Ethics adviser. Cuts out the middle man.

Anthony McGrath has some experience as an Ethics adviser.

[ShakaHislop]

One Tory MP at the Northern Research Group conference - where Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson failed to turn up - utterly furious

Says they were being told Johnson “was on the train to Doncaster” this morning

“This is the first test of outreach to his colleagues and he’s failed it”, they said

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1537812897866436608

[No666]

A cynical stunt as he thinks Ukraine is a prime positive for his own image, whereas a visit to the crumbling red wall would play out badly for him.

[Dr. Beaker]

Probably going to burn a few fifty pound notes in front of Zelensky to cheer Putin up.

[Nobby Reserve]

The fat, corrupt, lying c*nt just preferred a photo op in Ukraine, to having to talk with northern oiks.

[Circa1892]

If I wanted to spend money in this country axing tuition fees wouldn't be close to the top of the list, to be honest if I wanted to spend the money on education generally it wouldn't be top of the list.

Yep.

Axing tuition fees is probably one of the least progressive things you could do in the short term. It's putting a phenomenal amount of money towards people who've been well served by the school system and who will only ever pay it back if they have high graduate outcomes.

The actual progressive move would be to increase the repayment threshold (so mid income grads don't start paying it off until they're on a decent salary).

Always worth remembering aswell that the majority of young people still don't go to University - and for a lot of those students their path is very clearly set before they've stepped foot in a primary school.

[Red Raw]

I think I am misunderstanding your 40% . Are you saying 40% of solar electricity (can) be used by the householder. OR that the solar provides 40% of the electric needed.  The first figure seems reasonable.
The second is badly skewed for us as we have an electric car too

Yes, apologies if I typed it out wrong, ~40% is a reasonable estimate for the proportion of self-consumption for a typical roof mounted array. Gov used to work on a figure of 50% because it was cheaper than forcing everyone to get a separate export meter.

With an EV though (if you can charge at home) you should be quids in!

[Circa1892]

The fat, corrupt, lying c*nt just preferred a photo op in Ukraine, to having to talk with northern oiks.

The way he's using Ukraine is gross.

I mean as a positive - every time he fucks up he decides to give more money/aid/support to them - which is good I guess, but it's fucking gross.

[TSC]

European leaders were in Ukraine this week so Boris can’t appear to be on the outside looking in, so who cares about ‘levelling up’.

[TSC]

Missed this last week so apols if posted. Billions up in smoke

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61749657