Author Topic: The Labour Party (*)  (Read 883812 times)

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5200 on: March 21, 2017, 11:24:15 pm »
-41 my my

Sill, that's just down to right wing biased main stream media.  People are too stupid to form their own opinions.
still, he has beaten Michael foot so we can't say he's the worst Labour leader ever!

Offline TheShanklyGates

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5201 on: March 21, 2017, 11:39:16 pm »
PR reduces accountability to voters, as an ousted party of government can retain office by finding new coalition partners after an election.

PR will provide a route for UKIP to force their way into the political mainstream - under a FPTP electoral system this would be unlikely to happen. As in 2015 they had 4 million votes but one seat. Small parties get a disproportionately large amount of power. Large parties may be forced to form coalitions with much smaller parties, giving a party that has the support of only a small percentage of the votes the power to veto any proposal that comes from the larger parties.

Under FPTP the government is more inclined to tackle important local issues as well.

So no thanks to AV or PR I'll stick with FPTP.

PR encourages parties to work together and compromise on their principles for the good of the country. It also ensures that every vote is represented in parliament - under our FPTP system the Tories have 100% of the power with around 37% of the vote.

And UKIP are already in the political mainstream, you and around 17 million others saw to that. The Tories have basically taken UKIP's platform now. Who knows, under PR maybe UKIP would have more seats but the Tories wouldn't have to pander to them for fear of losing votes - it would be part of the system that it's almost impossible to get a majority.
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Offline Anfield Ed

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5202 on: March 21, 2017, 11:54:08 pm »
PR encourages parties to work together and compromise on their principles for the good of the country. It also ensures that every vote is represented in parliament - under our FPTP system the Tories have 100% of the power with around 37% of the vote.

And UKIP are already in the political mainstream, you and around 17 million others saw to that. The Tories have basically taken UKIP's platform now. Who knows, under PR maybe UKIP would have more seats but the Tories wouldn't have to pander to them for fear of losing votes - it would be part of the system that it's almost impossible to get a majority.

I don't want parties to work together or to compromise. I don't want Labour to compromise with the SNP or Lib Dems. At all. In fact that is partly what cost Miliband the election as he was too soft on the SNP and Sturgeon.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5203 on: March 22, 2017, 12:02:25 am »
I don't want parties to work together or to compromise. I don't want Labour to compromise with the SNP or Lib Dems. At all. In fact that is partly what cost Miliband the election as he was too soft on the SNP and Sturgeon.

And that is how you end up with more and more polarisation and a two party system that pleases almost nobody.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/s7tWHJfhiyo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/s7tWHJfhiyo</a>

This video explains my issues with FPTP pretty well.

Edit: And this one relating specifically to the 2015 general election.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/r9rGX91rq5I" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/r9rGX91rq5I</a>


Yes, you can use the argument that purely in the case of 2015 it would have meant UKIP getting more seats which nobody in this thread wants but long term I think you would see a more representative system and bigger voter turnouts if people were confident they weren't wasting their vote or being forced to vote for a party they don't like because they don't like the other party even more. I dread to think how many voters will vote Tory at the next election just to stop Corbyn getting in.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 12:28:19 am by TheShanklyGates »
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5204 on: March 22, 2017, 05:04:56 am »
I don't want parties to work together or to compromise. I don't want Labour to compromise with the SNP or Lib Dems. At all. In fact that is partly what cost Miliband the election as he was too soft on the SNP and Sturgeon.

I think it's safe to say that Labour won't be working together with anyone in government for the foreseeable future.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5205 on: March 22, 2017, 07:39:13 am »
Today's Guardian Leader:

As Britain heads for the EU exit door under a government that botched the budget, Jeremy Corbyn’s party is failing to offer a credible vision

‘Labour isn’t necessarily in terminal decline. A quarter of voters still support it. But the decline is enormous and it can’t go on like this.’

Tuesday 21 March 2017 19.39 GMT

In last week’s Dutch general election, only 5.7% of the electorate voted for the Labour party; five years ago, its share was 25%. In France, opinion polls have the Socialist party’s presidential candidate averaging around 13%, compared with 29% in 2012. By such yardsticks, the UK Labour party’s 26% support level in this week’s Guardian ICM poll may not seem all that bad. If nothing else it is a reminder that Labour’s manifest problems are in some respects part of a more general slump and challenge for parties of the centre-left.

But not in all respects. Such a slump is not an iron law of history. There is nothing predetermined about the centre-left’s decline. In Germany, the return of Martin Schulz as the Social Democratic party’s chancellor-candidate against Angela Merkel has reinvigorated Europe’s most important centre-left party after a long period of decline; the latest Insa-YouGov survey has the SPD in the lead. In Portugal, António Costa’s socialist coalition government continues to defy the doomsayers; Mr Costa’s socialists are currently averaging 40% in the polls. It remains possible, both in theory and practice, for centre-left parties with the right combination of imagination, credibility and good leadership to turn events in their countries to political advantage even in tough times. That ought to be happening in Britain with the Labour party. It palpably is not.

This week’s Guardian-ICM poll spelled out the scale of the problem facing Labour. The Conservatives have a 19-point lead. If it was not for the standard ICM adjustment – which is designed to take account of the “shy Tory” factor – Labour would have recorded its worst score ever in the series. Almost every demographic prefers the Tories to Labour – by 41% to 29% among supposedly more leftwing 18- to 24-year-olds, with even unskilled manual workers in the DE grades tied. Labour prides itself on its principles, but the Tories are seen as the more “honest and reputable” party. Theresa May and Philip Hammond have a 33-point lead on economic competence over Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell – an increase on their pre-budget advantage.

This last fact ought to flash a particularly bright warning light for Labour. Two weeks after a lacklustre budget whose most headline-grabbing measure fell apart within days, with the prime minister slapping down the chancellor, Labour has not dented the Tory lead at all. On the contrary, the lead has increased. On Tuesday inflation ticked upwards to 2.3%. Prices are now on a par with wages across the economy as a whole. This almost certainly marks a crossover point. Real incomes seem set to decline in the months ahead. This ought to be a moment for the opposition to hold the government’s feet to the fire. Instead, Mrs May commands the political landscape with ease.

So what is Labour doing? As Britain heads for the EU exit door and Labour loses a byelection in a seat it has held for more than 80 years, much of its energy is focused not on the government but on its own factions. Mr McDonnell says the Labour right is attempting a soft coup. Tom Watson, the deputy leader, accuses Momentum and Unite of taking over the party. The hard left is the scene of bitter infighting. Unite’s Len McCluskey accuses Mr Watson of skullduggery, which is a fine charge from someone who didn’t need to put his union through a premature leadership contest. Labour seems bent on rerunning to the 1980s, only this time with the unions and the party’s big figures lacking the heart, the curiosity or the heft – and the command in Scotland – to pull it around.

Labour isn’t necessarily in terminal decline. A quarter of voters still support it. But the decline is enormous and it can’t go on like this. Labour needs to revitalise its vision and values, rebuild a coalition of interests and find leaders to start turning the current failure around. It won’t do that by obsessing over internal issues. It requires a massive change of direction at the top. Right now, though, Labour simply isn’t up to the job.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/21/the-guardian-view-on-labour-not-up-to-the-job
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5206 on: March 22, 2017, 08:04:49 am »
Guaranteed that Corbyn's first question at PMQ's will be about executive pay. Its the thing that keeps working people up at night.

Offline whiteboots

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5207 on: March 22, 2017, 09:26:03 am »
I don't want parties to work together or to compromise. I don't want Labour to compromise with the SNP or Lib Dems. At all. In fact that is partly what cost Miliband the election as he was too soft on the SNP and Sturgeon.
I found this post particularly depressing, not least because it does represent a significant viewpoint in Labour.

All political parties are a compromise, The Tories find room for IDS and Ken Clarke, Labour for John McDonnell and Yvette Cooper.

The electorate EXPECT politicians to work together. In a democracy things get done by consensus. For me the big problem within Labour at the moment is an inability to compromise, coupled with a membership that the party has created, but is not managing.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5208 on: March 22, 2017, 09:44:57 am »
I found this post particularly depressing, not least because it does represent a significant viewpoint in Labour.

All political parties are a compromise, The Tories find room for IDS and Ken Clarke, Labour for John McDonnell and Yvette Cooper.

The electorate EXPECT politicians to work together. In a democracy things get done by consensus. For me the big problem within Labour at the moment is an inability to compromise, coupled with a membership that the party has created, but is not managing.


I agree that politics is always about compromise and pragmatism, or it should be anyway.

At the same time people though are scared of UKIP being more influential. Cannot have it both ways here. Personally I think they should have a stronger representation.

Offline zebenzui

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5209 on: March 22, 2017, 09:47:28 am »
still, he has beaten Michael foot so we can't say he's the worst Labour leader ever!

He was before my time, so I'll ask here. What did Michael Foot do to get such low ratings?

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5210 on: March 22, 2017, 10:15:56 am »
At the same time people though are scared of UKIP being more influential. Cannot have it both ways here. Personally I think they should have a stronger representation.

As abhorrent as it seems to us, the 4 million people who voted for them deserve representation. Then, they can be held accountable and their barmy policies exposed and argued against. This applies to UKIP, but also to parties we might be more amenable towards, like the Greens.

Binary party politics is always about building coalitions, of the right and left. PR ensures those coalitions are overt (as individual parties) and thus much more accountable.

If we don't want the likes of UKIP getting elected, it's our job to sway voters away from their seductive but flawed policies, not to deny those voters appropriate representation.
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5211 on: March 22, 2017, 10:16:55 am »
He was before my time, so I'll ask here. What did Michael Foot do to get such low ratings?

Mainly by wearing a donkey jacket to the Cenotaph, as I recall.
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5212 on: March 22, 2017, 10:23:54 am »
For me the big problem within Labour at the moment is an inability to compromise, coupled with a membership that the party has created, but is not managing.
Surely the membership manages the Labour party as the members elect the leaders  who should provide management.
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5213 on: March 22, 2017, 10:28:06 am »
He was before my time, so I'll ask here. What did Michael Foot do to get such low ratings?

Wear a duffle coat.  Oh and he had a bad haircut.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 10:33:46 am by In Fowler We Trust »
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Offline whiteboots

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5214 on: March 22, 2017, 10:35:51 am »
At the same time people though are scared of UKIP being more influential. Cannot have it both ways here. Personally I think they should have a stronger representation.
Post Brexit I believe the future of UKIP to be uncertain.

I think that history will show that a charismatic personality in Frottage was able to tap into a reaction against contemporary politics without having the intellectual drive, or bodies on the ground, to deliver it.

If you want control of your borders, we have it, we are leaving the EU.

If you think that Westminster will do a better job of running the country than Brussels – job done.

If you believe in the primacy of British Courts- tick.

Nuttall has shown himself to be a duplicitous charlatan, beyond that there is nothing. Carswell is a man on his own, thankful for fixed term parliaments. Frottage’s job is done.

Whoever the “they” are who voted UKIP last time will I think migrate to other parties now as the whole dynamic of politics in post Brexit Britain evolves.

Offline whiteboots

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5215 on: March 22, 2017, 10:42:12 am »
He was before my time, so I'll ask here. What did Michael Foot do to get such low ratings?
He tried to practise 1960’s politics in the 1980’s.

He was in thrall to a Bennite Left who saw the Callaghan  years as too Centrist – sound familiar?

A push to the Left was at odds with what the electorate wanted, they  resisted attempts to woo them with either more education or more extreme Left wing policies.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5216 on: March 22, 2017, 10:49:43 am »
As abhorrent as it seems to us, the 4 million people who voted for them deserve representation. Then, they can be held accountable and their barmy policies exposed and argued against. This applies to UKIP, but also to parties we might be more amenable towards, like the Greens.

Binary party politics is always about building coalitions, of the right and left. PR ensures those coalitions are overt (as individual parties) and thus much more accountable.

If we don't want the likes of UKIP getting elected, it's our job to sway voters away from their seductive but flawed policies, not to deny those voters appropriate representation.

I was speaking to a kipper not long ago about PR, and he was dead against it.  I explained to him that it would mean his vote actually counted and his party would have a greater representation, but he said he didn't want someone else that he didn't vote for get into power.

Not too bright these kippers, I think he was referering to AV and the possible connotations of that system.  I tried explaining that PR was different, but he wasn't having any of it.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5217 on: March 22, 2017, 10:53:50 am »
Mainly by wearing a donkey jacket to the Cenotaph, as I recall.
Which was actually a rather nice green overcoat/car coat from Harrods. This is the actual one that is now in the People’s Museum


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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5218 on: March 22, 2017, 10:58:38 am »
Surely the membership manages the Labour party as the members elect the leaders  who should provide management.
Your post doesn't make sense

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5219 on: March 22, 2017, 11:04:29 am »
Post Brexit I believe the future of UKIP to be uncertain.

I think that history will show that a charismatic personality in Frottage was able to tap into a reaction against contemporary politics without having the intellectual drive, or bodies on the ground, to deliver it.

If you want control of your borders, we have it, we are leaving the EU.

If you think that Westminster will do a better job of running the country than Brussels – job done.

If you believe in the primacy of British Courts- tick.

Nuttall has shown himself to be a duplicitous charlatan, beyond that there is nothing. Carswell is a man on his own, thankful for fixed term parliaments. Frottage’s job is done.

Whoever the “they” are who voted UKIP last time will I think migrate to other parties now as the whole dynamic of politics in post Brexit Britain evolves.


Maybe, but if you want PR then you have to accept that parties like UKIP will and should have representation. It could involve many Tory/UKIP coalitions but also many Labour, Green and SNP ones.

Offline classycarra

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5220 on: March 22, 2017, 11:24:13 am »
Oh dear

3 of the Gorton candidates appear to have attended a Khomeinist rally in Manchester.


Pro Iranian theocracy! Yay!

Which one? Only ask as it was Norooz (Iranian New Year) the other day - which is a lovely celebration and not Khomeinist.

Corbyn attends the Khomeinist/racist/theocratic/fascist/'bit genocidal in desire' Al Qud's Day march in London every year, which doesn't seem to bother his supporters. So if the event the candidates attended was Khomeinist/pro-theocracy then at least corbyn fans can't (legitimately) whinge that the candidates aren't in his image. Though clearly that often doesn't stop such ridiculous claims

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5221 on: March 22, 2017, 11:30:49 am »
Which one? Only ask as it was Norooz (Iranian New Year) the other day - which is a lovely celebration and not Khomeinist.

Corbyn attends the Khomeinist/racist/theocratic/fascist/'bit genocidal in desire' Al Qud's Day march in London every year, which doesn't seem to bother his supporters. So if the event the candidates attended was Khomeinist/pro-theocracy then at least corbyn fans can't (legitimately) whinge that the candidates aren't in his image. Though clearly that often doesn't stop such ridiculous claims

There is a guido fawkes story at the heart of it. Google for  Khomeinist and Gorton to find it.

They appear to a specific celebration of the anniversary of the Iranian Revolution.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5222 on: March 22, 2017, 11:32:21 am »
Which one? Only ask as it was Norooz (Iranian New Year) the other day - which is a lovely celebration and not Khomeinist.

Corbyn attends the Khomeinist/racist/theocratic/fascist/'bit genocidal in desire' Al Qud's Day march in London every year, which doesn't seem to bother his supporters. So if the event the candidates attended was Khomeinist/pro-theocracy then at least corbyn fans can't (legitimately) whinge that the candidates aren't in his image. Though clearly that often doesn't stop such ridiculous claims

Three out of the five candidates on Labour’s final shortlist in Manchester Gorton have attended Khomeinist rallies backing the Iranian regime, Guido can reveal. Afzal Khan and Yasmine Dar spoke last month at a rally held to celebrate the “38th anniversary of the Islamic revolution in Iran“. The event took place in the Manchester Islamic Centre in a room adorned with giant Iranian flags and a banner emblazoned with the face of Ayatollah Khomeini…

Gorton candidate Afzal Khan said at the rally:

    “It’s a pleasure to be here, I was a young man when the revolution actually happened, one of those who was excited… almost everything has been thrown towards Iran, even the kitchen sink, but what we’ve seen is that despite this long period, despite all these different challenges, that Iran has systematically been moving forward, getting stronger… may Allah bless Iran…”

Fellow candidate Yasmine Dar said in her speech:

    “It’s an absolute honour… honourable guests here today thank you so much for this opportunity… we’re here for a celebration, a happy time, 38 years of the Iranian Islamic revolution so I’m absolutely happy, it’s the third year that I’ve been coming… I keep it in my diary and make sure that I’m here… I feel I am absolutely proud when I hear the stories about Iran was based on diplomacy…”

https://order-order.com/2017/03/21/three-labour-gorton-candidates-attended-khomeinist-rallies/

Extraordinary.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5223 on: March 22, 2017, 11:32:41 am »
Last Yougov poll did look a bit odd, so this seems to be a reversion to the mean.

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 41% (-3)
LAB: 25% (-2)
UKIP: 12% (+3)
LDEM: 11% (+1)
GRN: 3% (-1)

(via YouGov / 20 - 21 Mar)

At this stage it looks fair to say that Labour hasn't benefited from the Tory budget embarrassment at all.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5224 on: March 22, 2017, 11:36:26 am »
Maybe, but if you want PR then you have to accept that parties like UKIP will and should have representation. It could involve many Tory/UKIP coalitions but also many Labour, Green and SNP ones.

I agree that the under representation of UKIP representatively in England, and of pretty much everyone else in Scotland apart from the SNP damages democracy.

I like the idea of MPs proportionately representing the numbers of votes cast, but have yet to be won over by any particular means of doing so.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5225 on: March 22, 2017, 11:38:17 am »
I was speaking to a kipper not long ago about PR, and he was dead against it.  I explained to him that it would mean his vote actually counted and his party would have a greater representation, but he said he didn't want someone else that he didn't vote for get into power.

Not too bright these kippers, I think he was referering to AV and the possible connotations of that system.  I tried explaining that PR was different, but he wasn't having any of it.
Does he not mean he would have no say on who actually becomes the MP.
Maybe am wrong but the way I take is, he may vote UKIP but under PR he may finish up with a UKIP MP he doesn't want.
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5226 on: March 22, 2017, 11:41:41 am »
He tried to practise 1960’s politics in the 1980’s.

He was in thrall to a Bennite Left who saw the Callaghan  years as too Centrist – sound familiar?

A push to the Left was at odds with what the electorate wanted, they  resisted attempts to woo them with either more education or more extreme Left wing policies.

Thanks for the reply, and to all the other posters too.

I've read as well on this thread that Foot may well have beaten Thatcher if not for the Falklands.

Was the -49 rating before or after that?

Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5227 on: March 22, 2017, 11:48:25 am »
I agree that politics is always about compromise and pragmatism, or it should be anyway.

At the same time people though are scared of UKIP being more influential. Cannot have it both ways here. Personally I think they should have a stronger representation.

You could argue that UKIP have been far more influential under FPTP than they ever would have been under proportional representation.
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Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline classycarra

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5228 on: March 22, 2017, 11:49:09 am »
Thanks for the reply, and to all the other posters too.

I've read as well on this thread that Foot may well have beaten Thatcher if not for the Falklands.

Was the -49 rating before or after that?

That poll, if 18 months into his leadership, would have been taken approximately a month after the end of the Falklands War.

Offline classycarra

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5229 on: March 22, 2017, 11:52:36 am »

https://order-order.com/2017/03/21/three-labour-gorton-candidates-attended-khomeinist-rallies/

Extraordinary.

Prize knobheads. Ignorant idiots.

It's a shame they can't be booted from the party, since they're supporting a regime that systematically silences left wing voices. So much for internationalism. Then again, that would rule out the leader and many of his pals and employees in his office.

[thanks for the links SP and Libertine]

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5230 on: March 22, 2017, 11:57:37 am »
You could argue that UKIP have been far more influential under FPTP than they ever would have been under proportional representation.

Exactly, they've got what they were set up to achieve, with only 1 MP!!

UK democracy in action  ;)

Offline Dowling10

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5231 on: March 22, 2017, 12:11:38 pm »
MPs to vote on second referendum for Theresa May’s Brexit deal

The 10-minute-rule bill is a symbol of resistance for Remain-supporting MPs

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/second-eu-referendum-brexit-plan-tim-farron-lib-dems-geraint-davies-a7643016.html

"Labour will not be supporting the bill."

Fucking shithouses.


Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5232 on: March 22, 2017, 12:12:32 pm »
Thanks for the reply, and to all the other posters too.

I've read as well on this thread that Foot may well have beaten Thatcher if not for the Falklands.

Was the -49 rating before or after that?

If anyone was going to beat Thatcher it would have been the Lib Dems. Labour steadily declined in popularity under Foot and it was the Lib Dems who were a real threat. After the Limehouse declaration they were the most popular party leading up to the Falklands conflict.



It's complete bollocks that Foot might have won if it hadn't been for the Falklands. The conflict was a final nail in the coffin for Foot's Bennite Labour Party.

*edit - just to say that I thought Michael Foot was a decent and principled man but the party he led at the time was an electoral disaster.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 12:23:25 pm by Alan_X »
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Cliff Bastin

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5233 on: March 22, 2017, 12:30:26 pm »
There is a guido fawkes story at the heart of it. Google for  Khomeinist and Gorton to find it.

They appear to a specific celebration of the anniversary of the Iranian Revolution.
Why would anyone support that? Turning a state into an Islamic Republic which brought tyranny on women and homosexuals and a theocratic shithole. Labour are so unelectable.

Offline classycarra

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5234 on: March 22, 2017, 12:39:01 pm »
Why would anyone support that? Turning a state into an Islamic Republic which brought tyranny on women and homosexuals and a theocratic shithole. Labour are so unelectable.

Because they're religious fundamentalists

Offline Trada

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5235 on: March 22, 2017, 01:08:46 pm »
May attacks Jeremy for sending his son to a Grammar school.

Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline SP

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5236 on: March 22, 2017, 01:26:12 pm »
May attacks Jeremy for sending his son to a Grammar school.



He could not even persuade his own wife to forgo Grammar schools, do you think he can manage the other 64 million?

It's not her job to explain the circumstances. What she said was true. It is the private education choices made by the cabinet that are more damaging.

Offline whiteboots

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5237 on: March 22, 2017, 01:42:06 pm »
I've read as well on this thread that Foot may well have beaten Thatcher if not for the Falklands.
There was no chance of Foot defeating Thatcher during his tenure as leader.

That was not  specifically because he was a bad leader, more that he was in  a time and a place when Labour was unelectable. The Callaghan administration had descended into chaos, as the Tory Major administration had done pre Blair. Labour  had not decided how to regroup, was it on the Bennite Left, the SDP right, or the tired middle? That took some while to resolve.


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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5238 on: March 22, 2017, 02:17:52 pm »
Seems like Corbyn beat May soundly at PMQs ...

Good stuff
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline SP

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #5239 on: March 22, 2017, 02:31:08 pm »
Seems like Corbyn beat May soundly at PMQs ...

Good stuff

He got some blows in, but not a killer blow. One of his better PMQs. But May's soundbite about Labour Cabinet's kids going to private school and his son going to a grammar is getting airplay. In the chamber, he got the better of it. In the soundbites it was far less clear cut. #

Encouraging, but a way to go yet.