Topic: Planning Permission - Neighbours Building Work

[Nick110581]

Hi guys,

In the process of moving house as sold ours and offer accepted on new one.

My current neighbour just told me he is planning on doing a downstairs kitchen extension into his garden next April. It will mean he will then have no garden so seems odd thing to do with kids but hey ho.

He is to the right of ours as you look out in garden - the docs I have seem to suggest it is shared ownership for dividing fence.

He wants to pull this down so his extension wall will divide ours.

This may not impact us but worried it will look shit and could overllook us with windows at side.

I know planning regs have been relaxed but be good if someone knows the exact rules so I can ask him the right questions.

Cheers,

Nick

[CraigDS]

This gives a bit of info with regards to building near or on a boundary - https://collier-stevens.co.uk/faqs/boundary-wall-questions/

Don’t think they are allowed windows on a wall such as that which would effectively look into your garden, or if they were they’d be required to be frosted. Has it got Planning permission already?

[Nick110581]

This gives a bit of info with regards to building near or on a boundary - https://collier-stevens.co.uk/faqs/boundary-wall-questions/

Don’t think they are allowed windows on a wall such as that which would effectively look into your garden, or if they were they’d be required to be frosted. Has it got Planning permission already?

Not sure on planning permission.

We are end of terraced so an extension would look out on to two gardens

[CraigDS]

Not sure on planning permission.

Your local council will have a planning portal on their website you can search to find his application, copies of the plans, decision, etc.

[Nick110581]

Your local council will have a planning portal on their website you can search to find his application, copies of the plans, decision, etc.

Thanks Craig - it is a pain the arse I could do without

Hopefully, we will be gone by time it starts

[CraigDS]

Thanks Craig - it is a pain the arse I could do without

Hopefully, we will be gone by time it starts

Problem is I imagine any application will show up on searches when the buyers solicitors do them, and that could put them off. So best getting ahead of it and seeing what they’ve submitted.

[Nick110581]

Problem is I imagine any application will show up on searches when the buyers solicitors do them, and that could put them off. So best getting ahead of it and seeing what they’ve submitted.

Nothing submitted so I can see

I don't think he needs it due to this relaxation

The permitted development rules have recently been relaxed, allowing you to build an extension without planning permission of up to six metres (or eight metres if your house is detached).

[CraigDS]

Yeah, quite possibly true. Wasn’t sure if that meant you still had to submit plans, etc. still though. Possibly not.

Alan will probably know so will prob be around soon!

[Nick110581]

Yeah, quite possibly true. Wasn’t sure if that meant you still had to submit plans, etc. still though. Possibly not.

Alan will probably know so will prob be around soon!

Thanks Craig - there is almost too much info on the internet too.

It may all be a pie in the sky idea too as he came out to ask if I was moving and then started telling me about these ideas.

Think there may be more of issue with fence as if wall not right then it will look a bit weird.

[reddebs]

They'd still need building regs to approve each stage and Craig's right re the windows and solicitors searches.

I'd still be inclined to speak to your solicitors and the planners for guidance on the boundary issue and also values as the last thing you need is for the sale to fall through once they find out.

[Nick110581]

They'd still need building regs to approve each stage and Craig's right re the windows and solicitors searches.

I'd still be inclined to speak to your solicitors and the planners for guidance on the boundary issue and also values as the last thing you need is for the sale to fall through once they find out.

Re the new regs, it says they do not need planning permission due to the size so that shouldn't show on a search.

They may need our sign off on re a party wall as be too close to boundary.

I am happy to tell our buyers and be up front but as I say, I don't know where they are with thing.

If you saw my garden (small) then you wouldn't do this.

[reddebs]

Re the new regs, it says they do not need planning permission due to the size so that shouldn't show on a search.

They may need our sign off on re a party wall as be too close to boundary.

I am happy to tell our buyers and be up front but as I say, I don't know where they are with thing.

If you saw my garden (small) then you wouldn't do this.

The regs aren't planning permission it's the regulations they have to follow for the build. 

The right bricks, height, size of windows, structural competence so things like steels, drains and waterways etc.

Even though planning has been all but done away with they can't just throw up any old pigsty [emoji16]

[Nick110581]

The regs aren't planning permission it's the regulations they have to follow for the build. 

The right bricks, height, size of windows, structural competence so things like steels, drains and waterways etc.

Even though planning has been all but done away with they can't just throw up any old pigsty [emoji16]

But the new regs mean it shouldn't show on searches as no planning permission required?

[reddebs]

But the new regs mean it shouldn't show on searches as no planning permission required?

Ah yeah got ya now but I'd still check with your solicitor.

[Nick110581]

Ah yeah got ya now but I'd still check with your solicitor.

I will do - just interested in the fact that our deeds stat it is shared ownership where fence is now and he wants to pull it down for his extension

Not sure he knows this

[reddebs]

I will do - just interested in the fact that our deeds stat it is shared ownership where fence is now and he wants to pull it down for his extension

Not sure he knows this

Is that the same thing as a party wall?

If his extension wall becomes the boundary that makes you or your purchasers responsible for it's maintenance which would be weird?

[CraigDS]

Is that the same thing as a party wall?

If his extension wall becomes the boundary that makes you or your purchasers responsible for it's maintenance which would be weird?

Would also mean any window that opens out would mean they are trespassing on your property.

Although if you wanted to be a dick you could build a fence right up to it 

[reddebs]

Would also mean any window that opens out would mean they are trespassing on your property.

Although if you wanted to be a dick you could build a fence right up to it 

[emoji23] very true but I'm not sure they'd allow any windows to actually open [emoji2369]

[So… Howard Philips]

Have a look at the Party Wall Act 1996' may be of use.

[Nick110581]

There are so many weird rules with it

It may not happen that way due to drainage, etc

He rented it for a year then bought off owners but it is such a weird idea as means he has no garden whatsoever. As he is terraced, he has two houses either side and a back garden from house behind with a fence up

[ToneLa]

Not saying it's the way to go, but hurling someone off scaffolding, as solutions go... not overrated

[Nick110581]

Is that the same thing as a party wall?

If his extension wall becomes the boundary that makes you or your purchasers responsible for it's maintenance which would be weird?

No difference to fences though

If we were still here I would want the wall smooth so I could paint it

[CHOPPER]

Nimby110581

[reddebs]

No difference to fences though

If we were still here I would want the wall smooth so I could paint it

Yeah but that's you Nick, a new neighbour might refuse or not want to or not allow anyone else to and they have no say either.

It could also cause problems if and when he or your purchasers decide to sell.

[Nick110581]

Yeah but that's you Nick, a new neighbour might refuse or not want to or not allow anyone else to and they have no say either.

It could also cause problems if and when he or your purchasers decide to sell.

Just have to hope it goes through before he does it!

[Jm55]

How far along are you in the legal process to sell?

As I’m sure you’re aware, once contracts are exchanged they Are committed to the purchase, do they have any plan to revisit the property prior to exchange? If not then, as you say, with no planning permission required I can’t see how they find out about it.

If you wanted to be really sly about it you could ask the neighbour to delay anything visible until you’ve exchanged contracts possibly?

Also, whilst he may not need planning permission to build it that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s legally compliant. Are you aware of any covenants in the Transfer - for one thing if he builds windows on the side of the building which is on your boundary then there could be a privacy issue. There’s also the thing that if the fence is jointly owned by you both then I can’t see how he can pull it down without your consent.

[Nick110581]

Need some help with an extension question.

Neighbour is planning a kitchen extension into his back garden next month and wants to pull down connecting fence (shared ownership, etc).

The rules seem to have changed but can he do that as surely foundations can't come on my side? The Party Wall Act covers this possibly

[Drinks Sangria]

Have a look at the Party Wall Act 1996' may be of use.

This - the restrictions have been relaxed in relation to meterage, as stated above, but there is also additional permissions if said meterage exceeds 50% of the total outdoor groundspace (this is assuming you're in the UK). It sounds like this will massively exceed 50% if it's taking up all his garden.

There could be grounds for prohibiting his work on this basis - also if you don't want your fence removing, that's surely the end of the matter?

He cannot build even 1mm onto your land, this even includes the overhang of any roof to the structure he's erecting, even if the wall itself isn't infringing on your property.

[rob1966]

Some councils are a lot stricter than others. Trafford knocked us back a few years ago as we wanted to build an extension to the side up to the boundary, her brother is our next door neighbour and had no issue as it would have joined his planned downstairs extension, but they insist on a 1m gap, even though neighbours have previously built to the boundary, so rejected it. They also wouldn't let us go more than 1 m off the back of the house.

Be worth checking with the council on what they will actually allow and maybe use councils like Trafford as an example for any complaints you have?

[.adam]

I had an extension built last year and my new room "cuts in" from the boundary line. I think the architect said a minimum of 300mm?

Inside:



Outside:

[Nick110581]

Spoken to a Surveyor today regarding it who said that they have to serve us a Party Wall Act Notice either way as foundations will be deeper than original house.

Says it’s their lawful obligation to do so.

His builder is coming tomorrow so going to knock on door - had a long conversation with him and said not to worry about that Notice as he has a good reputation. Said he has never issued one in 45 years of working. I challenged that then he changed his tune.

[Nick110581]

This is proving tiresome.

Basically the neighbour is having a lot more work done than originally advised (chimney removal, more internal walls being knocked down, skip in their front garden for 2 months).

They have issued a Notice that a Surveyor has reviewed saying it’s essentially incorrect. Told the neighbour and he issued another one but then said he doesn’t need to issue one at all. Says Builder is great and knows everyone at Council so not to worry.

He’s a private builder not VAT registered so zero online presence.

Surveyor advised I can appoint him over the impasse but they would be responsible for the costs incurred.

The last thing I need is having to research this and do their job for them when there’s no benefit to me.

Really don’t want to be that neighbour but I will have too if it’s not resolved.

[reddebs]

This is proving tiresome.

Basically the neighbour is having a lot more work done than originally advised (chimney removal, more internal walls being knocked down, skip in their front garden for 2 months).

They have issued a Notice that a Surveyor has reviewed saying it’s essentially incorrect. Told the neighbour and he issued another one but then said he doesn’t need to issue one at all. Says Builder is great and knows everyone at Council so not to worry.

He’s a private builder but VAT registered so zero online presence.

Surveyor advised I can appoint him over the impasse but they would be responsible for the costs incurred.

The last thing I need is having to research this and do their job for them when there’s no benefit to me.

Really don’t want to be that neighbour but I will have too if it’s not resolved.

Have you seen the plans Nick?

Did they need planning permission or is it within permitted development?

As for inside, unless it's a listed building they can do whatever they want and so long as the skip isn't on your land, blocking access or generally a nuisance there's not much you can do.

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[Nick110581]

Have you seen the plans Nick?

Did they need planning permission or is it within permitted development?

As for inside, unless it's a listed building they can do whatever they want and so long as the skip isn't on your land, blocking access or generally a nuisance there's not much you can do.

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Seen a rough drawing. No planning permission needed but they still need to issue Notice due to party wall work and digging by our foundations.

Having some jumped up Builder tell me ‘not to worry as he has a good rep’ makes me even more weary.

Plus they want to start 1st March and only issued the notice this week. You need thirty days notice.

[reddebs]

Seen a rough drawing. No planning permission needed but they still need to issue Notice due to party wall work and digging by our foundations.

Having some jumped up Builder tell me ‘not to worry as he has a good rep’ makes me even more weary.

Plus they want to start 1st March and only issued the notice this week. You need thirty days notice.

I'd speak to building regs at the council as they still need to pass each stage as it's completed and they should be able to confirm the legal requirements they need to follow.

I'd also take what the builder says with a pinch of salt.  Any professional that feels he needs to brag about his contacts to reassure you is worrisome.

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[Nick110581]

I'd speak to building regs at the council as they still need to pass each stage as it's completed and they should be able to confirm the legal requirements they need to follow.

I'd also take what the builder says with a pinch of salt.  Any professional that feels he needs to brag about his contacts to reassure you is worrisome.

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Council confirmed that they need to issue the Notice

[Nick110581]

Extension has started.

It’s mad it’s allowed without planning permission and comes under permitted development yet I would need Planning Permission to install a higher fence to hide it.

[diggerling!]

I'm surprised he's allowed to build over the whole garden as my understanding was that the amenity needs of any future users should be considered, not just those of the current owner.

I'd also be a bit concerned that he's not VAT registered. Must have a very low turnover for a builder.

[Nick110581]

I'm surprised he's allowed to build over the whole garden as my understanding was that the amenity needs of any future users should be considered, not just those of the current owner.

I'd also be a bit concerned that he's not VAT registered. Must have a very low turnover for a builder.

It’s not across the whole garden as he originally planned as that’s not allowed. It’s 25% of it to make his kitchen bigger.

Having seen the state of the work so far, it certainly looks like he’s a cowboy. We told them we are keeping fence as partition rather than the extension wall. When you look out it’s not even straight 😀

When you look out of our french windows, there is the current fence (only 6 foot) and then an eyesore of extension with grey breeze blocks towering over it.

They obviously need access to remove fence panels and render it for painting.

None of this adds any benefit to us. It’s just hassle we could do without.

[gazzam1963]

I'm surprised he's allowed to build over the whole garden as my understanding was that the amenity needs of any future users should be considered, not just those of the current owner.

I'd also be a bit concerned that he's not VAT registered. Must have a very low turnover for a builder.

Don’t think he’s building over the whole garden just a portion of it , it will still need to be done to building regs so the council surveyor will need a few visits .