Author Topic: Pennant: Paying the Penance  (Read 21630 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Pennant: Paying the Penance
« on: July 27, 2006, 10:28:23 am »
Well, no one can accuse Rafa Benítez of signing 'easy' players.

For a little over half of what Seville wanted for Daniel Alves it looks good business to move for Jermaine Pennant, especially if the remainder can be put towards another much-needed addition, such as Feyenoord's Dirk Kuyt, to fill the 4th striking vacancy.

It may seem like a case of settling for second-best, but that doesn't make Pennant second-rate. Managers can have a number of targets, and be happy with any of them.

It's not like buying a new car, when you can choose what suits and then pay the retail price. Often you are trying to buy a unique 'product' from a reluctant seller, and there's no set market price, just the amount that a club either feels a player is worth, or what they hope someone would be willing to pay.

Twice the fee doesn't mean twice the player; it's still fractions of difference in quality. The biggest advantages Pennant has over Alves are that he speaks English and is proven quality in the Premiership. Alves looks the better all-round player, on the little evidence I've seen, but Pennant is more of a specialist right winger.

I've been a fan of Pennant – the player – ever since his excellent season at Leeds a few years back. Pennant the person concerns me somewhat, however. His problems at Arsenal were numerous, but the main ones were the quality of his rivals for a place in the team, and his own tender age.

Robert Pires was too good at that stage, both in terms of individual talent and how he linked with Thierry Henry and Patrick Vieira, while Freddie Ljungberg had a phenomenal goalscoring record from wide positions. No teenager was going to break up that wide pairing, while Arsenal were purring as a side, and in no need of any tinkering. Needs must; Liverpool need a right winger, and back then, Arsenal didn't.

Pennant, meanwhile, was too young and too impatient. Perhaps signing for a big club for £2m at the age of 15 speeds up your expectations, but Pennant wanted action before he'd proved he was ready. The ability was never in doubt.

I felt he was incredibly stupid in what he said and did at Arsenal, and shortly after leaving, and I stand by that. (But hell, I'm still saying incredibly stupid things, and I'm 35.) As with Bellamy, we can only hope the worst is behind him, and that he has grown up. I'd like to think Pennant has taken a good look at himself, and his actions, and rather than blame the world, has taken responsibility for his own actions. Only then will he put it all behind him, and not risk repeat offending.

With a weaker man managing the club I'd be worried, but Rafa always seems in full control. And both Bellamy and Pennant clearly want to be at Liverpool. It's up to them to take this chance, as it's only downward steps when leaving Liverpool, unless Real Madrid or Barcelona pitch up for your services, and that's highly unlikely.

It's been a while coming, but Pennant is now at a level where he can get regular games at a top club, even if he cannot expect to play every game; no one at Liverpool has that right, and another point to watch out for is his reaction to being out of the side. At 23 he is at a good age, particularly as he has a fair bit of experience under his belt – he's not a raw 23-year-old – not to mention an understanding of what it's like at a big club. 

He can add more goals to his game, but that will be easier in a team dominating games. At Leeds at Birmingham his main role was just getting the ball from a defensive area into the opposition half, and to try and put in crosses – which he did with impressive results.

Pennant has been relegated twice, but as with Peter Crouch he showed his ability and character in a struggling side. He's now at an age where he's ready to go up a gear or two in a better side, one which plays to his strengths and where he receives more possession, and receives that possession in more dangerous areas.

Like Craig Bellamy and Mark Gonzalez, Pennant offers genuine pace with the ball under control. Last season Cissé offered blistering speed, but it wasn't always allied to control. A lack of pace was a major weakness in the side at times, especially when Cissé wasn't playing, while Harry Kewell only found his pace of old in bursts.

Pennant has excellent crossing ability, like another new addition – Fabio Aurelio, while Gonzalez's delivery is also reliable – and that's something that Peter Crouch will benefit from. Crouch isn't the best header of a ball around, as we all know, but if the delivery is good he can be impossible to defend against. For all his lack of power he is still dangerous in the air, and with the addition of his England goals got close to double figures from headers last season, as well as numerous headed assists.

Robbie Fowler, meanwhile, is a great header of the ball, but is almost a foot shorter than Crouch; so he relies on accurate delivery, too. Morientes will perhaps rue that the delivery will improve after his exit, but his heading was uncharacteristically poor during his 18 months on Merseyside; he scored just one headed goal last season.

None of Pennant, Bellamy, Gerrard and Gonzalez need stick rigidly to one position. I can envisage the Reds breaking at pace with these four spinning off in different directions, dragging defenders every which way, with either Crouch or Fowler acting as the central fulcrum, and Alonso, Aurelio and Agger (when he plays) as the expert passers from deep positions. It's a mouth-watering prospect.

And that doesn't include Luis Garcia, Zenden and Kewell, all of whom will play an important role this season.

Going forward, the Reds are capable of posing a lot more problems to opposing defences, and that's likely to secure better results and have us all closer to the edge of our seats.

© Paul Tomkins 2006

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« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 10:59:44 am by Rushian »

Offline The Commish

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2006, 10:31:35 am »

None of Pennant, Bellamy, Gerrard and Gonzalez need stick rigidly to one position. I can envisage the Reds breaking at pace with these four spinning off in different directions, dragging defenders every which way, with either Crouch or Fowler acting as the central fulcrum, and Alonso, Aurelio and Agger (when he plays) as the expert passers from deep positions. It's a mouth-watering prospect.

And that doesn't include Luis Garica, Zenden and Kewell, all of whom will play an important role this season.


Great read, couldnt agree more on it being a mouthwatering prospect!
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Offline Andy

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2006, 10:35:30 am »
good point about "twice the price but not twice the player", and well made.

some people will doubt both pennant and bellamy (ability and character), others will defend their signings to the hilt.

ultimately however, it is how they perform when the season starts, and I am excited to see what these two will do. And then we've got Fabio, Gonzalez and A N Other Striker too...

when does the season start??

Offline tax_man

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2006, 10:39:55 am »
Good read. And yes that last paragraph, it had me smiling with excitement just reading it - the visual in me head now, enacting that paragraph, brilliant :D

I'm so pleased with the additions so far this summer, can't wait til August now!

Offline nidgemo

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2006, 10:47:33 am »
Good stuff.

I AM afraid of your new picture, though. ;)
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Offline stumets

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2006, 10:54:15 am »
He is an interesting signing, some with great pace who can beat a man and get a cross in.

As Paul says, the idea of Xabi collecting the ball from the back and releasing pennant in advanced wide position .. with Stevie surging forward through the middle .. has got me very excited.

Bring on the 13th  ;D

Offline zigackly

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2006, 10:55:22 am »
Who is this Luis Garica everyone's always on about? Nice read by the way Paul.
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Offline Scuba Steve

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2006, 10:58:28 am »
Great again Paul  :thumbup
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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2006, 11:00:36 am »
As I said in the Pennant thread no-one can argue the squad has a lot more pace in than it did last season.

I think Robbie will make good use of Pennants crosses. He is excelent in the air and also at picking up the scraps from part clearances etc..

All in all everything looks pretty good for this season and I see no reason why we can't improve our points haul. Thats the main goal for me. Winning the league would be great obviously but if we can get 90 points we will be there or there abouts at the end.
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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2006, 11:01:23 am »
Who is this Luis Garica everyone's always on about? Nice read by the way Paul.

He will be the short one - cant miss him - he will spend most of his time on the bench this season.
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Offline Greg

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2006, 11:06:02 am »
"At Leeds at Birmingham".

Yeah, fuck grammar.

Only messing la, good read.

Offline snowy8

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2006, 11:12:59 am »
Enjoyed reading that and  have to agree with the points raised. I cant wait for the season to start!
We have pace all over the park with Bellamy up front, Gonzalez and Pennant out wide and Gerrard breaking from the middle or other positions.
I have a feeling there will be another signing before the week is out although i dont think it will be Kuyt.
I know Bellamy is a boyhood red but am i right in thinking that Pennant is as well. Thought that i had read that somewhere during last season?

Offline Kaizer

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2006, 11:14:31 am »
I was thinking about starting a thread about Pennant, but this looks like the place to ask a few questions I have.
I`m sitting on the fence at the moment, but because he is a right winger something we have needed for ages, I guess I can say I am happy with this signing but not overwhelmed.

But since I am no expert on the subject that is Pennant, I have a few questions I will like to ask, lets start with taking a look and compare him to other players in similar positions.

Pennant:
38 matches
2 goals- 20 shots on goal.
4 assists- 227 crosses

Gamst Pedersen:
34 matches
9 goals- 18 shots on goal.
6-assists- 87 crosses.

Milner:
30 matches
1 goal- 18 shots on goal.
10 assists- 150 crosses.

And finally lets take a look at the two players who occupied our right side most of the time last season.

Cisse:
33 matches
9 goals- 36
3 assists- 53 crosses

Gerrard:
32 matches
10 goals- 47 shots on goal
6 assists- 143 crosses.

Pennant gets a lot of crosses during the season, but he has never been a prolific goalscorer, and he has never been at the top of the assists tables either.

I don't know if my expectations are to high, but I would have hoped, when we finally signed this right winger we have been looking for since God knows when, that we would bring in a player who averages about 8-10 goals a season in the league and averages more than 5-6 assists, because I think this is what such a player should be expected to reach.

My prime examples would be players like Pires, Giggs etc they gives a lot to the team, they can go past a defender on the inside, they can go past a defender on the outside, they can get a beautiful cross in, a backpass in the box and more importantly they can score goals.

I would like an unpredictable winger who could do all these things on a regular basis.

I`m not sure if Pennant is this player, it seems to me that he usually goes for the cross most of the time, if you as a defender know he will try to cross the ball it is more easy to defend against both as a LB and a CB.

I have to be honest and admit I have not seen that much of Pennant, but I have watched him enough times to say I have never thought, "wow this is a great little player, we should definite sign him"

A lot of people really look to rate him, but players have been hyped up before without living up to the hype, especially English players, so I will reserve judgment until I have seen him properly a couple of times in the red jersey.

If someone of those who have seen a lot of Pennant could tell anything about his decision making, his ability to go past a defender both on the inside and the outside, his ability to keep the ball, is he easily muscled out of matches etc..

I`m not looking for stereotype answers to this one, but well reasoned posts, its fair and square that he is very good in getting a cross in, but what else? And what can he bring to the team players like Garcia, Gerrard, Pongolle or Cisse could not have done, I`m thinking in goal contribution, assists, keeping the ball, be a good defender in midfield etc.
How good is his set pieces, does he take corners from both sides?

When I did some digging about him I also found out that both his goals this season came from inside the box, so my question is, is he god at getting into the box on regular basis?

I also noticed the fact he was just caught offside 6 times last season, so this gives me three possibilities.
1. He is extremely good at beating the offside trap, but since he has got just 2 goals and 4 assists I don't think this is the case, the fact he has been playing for Birmingham which I don't think many teams play with a deep defense against tell me this cant be the case.
2. He usually don't chase the ball behind the oppositions defense, something I would have thought playing for Birmingham should give you good opportunities to do?
3. He drifts wide most of the time to collect the ball and try to get a cross in most of the time, something that I think is the case. If I have been right in my earlier suggestions I think this is the case.

Based on all these things, I asks myself these questions, is Pennant the player to lift our team, will we see definite improvements compared to our other options for the right side, and is 7mill£ a good reasonable price for such a player.

I would like to hear what people actually think about this, and if what I have written above can hold any ground at all.
 
« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 11:33:32 am by Kaizer »
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Offline thetonyclifton

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2006, 11:17:23 am »
Reply to original post - Good perspective, I completely agree. Pennant may not have been 'number 1 choice' but taking him is definately not settling for second best and it represents clever business if it allows us to bring in another striker.

Everyone is talking about Bellamy and now Pennant being a gamble, I just dont see it, both are young (Pennant more so) British players who have proven their ability beyond doubt in weak sides. 

Pennant had some personal offield problems which many young men with sudden and untold wealth would have.....Bellamy fell out with Souness.....who isnt exactly a people person or renouned for his man management skills.  Neither player has on field difficulties with their temperament or otherwise (Bellamy is a rough and nasty player but not to the point of disciplinary problems...just very competitive)

Both represent good business at roughly 6million each, I would be far more concerned if we were forking out £30million to buy or getting a similar player to Rooney/Bowyer whose problems are onfield and have the potential to effect results.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 11:20:00 am by thetonyclifton »
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Offline vicgill

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2006, 11:19:33 am »
I love reading your stuff Paul, a
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Offline jdirckze

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2006, 11:19:37 am »
Pennant on the right , Gonzalez on the left , Bellamy in the middle - we will be most dangerous when defending a corner -breaking out at pace -  the ball will be in the opposition's net in seconds!

Offline impartial

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2006, 11:23:12 am »
Kaiser, please wait before the eggs come out of the chicken before you start cooking the omlete.

I am getting sick of reading posts about how he's not this and he's not that. Pennant is now infront of a crowd that sings Youll Never Walk Alone, yet ironically, he's almost going to be walking alone from the off if peoples attitudes here are going to be any reflection for the people at Anfield.

Focus on his good points.

a) great dribbler and crosser
b) 23 and english
c) commitment and desire to play for Liverpool

Not to mention the symbolic nature of a man comming from acting like an imbecile to being a whole person - haven't many here gone off the deep end? - this is how you learn about life. Its not all peachy. . What sort of PR that will have with kids on estates? Eh?

btw, confirming read Paul
« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 11:25:10 am by impartial »

Offline courty61

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2006, 11:24:17 am »

Pennant:
38 matches
2 goals- 20 shots on goal.
4 assists- 227 crosses

Gamst Pedersen:
34 matches
9 goals- 18 shots on goal.
6-assists- 87 crosses.

Milner:
30 matches
1 goal- 18 shots on goal.
10 assists- 150 crosses.

Ronaldo:
33 matches
9 goals- 46 shots on goal
6 assists- 117

Solano:
33 matches
6 goals- 21 shots on goal
2 assists- 87 crosses

Robben:
28 matches
6 goals- 25 shots on goal
2 assists- 54 crosses

Reyes:
26 matches
5 goals- 34 shots on goal
9 assists- 29 crosses

And finally lets take a look at the two players who occupied our right side most of the time last season.

Cisse:
33 matches
9 goals- 36
3 assists- 53 crosses

Gerrard:
32 matches
10 goals- 47 shots on goal
6 assists- 143 crosses.




But Pennant did have Heskey, Sutton and Forsell (for a while anyway) to aim for last year- in a side which struggled a lot for goals.

PT said it on his piece on .tv; stats are like fast food- you can't survive on a diet solely on them.
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Offline zigackly

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2006, 11:27:26 am »
Kaizer is just pissed off because we didn't buy Quaresma. Who gives a shit anyway?
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Offline nidgemo

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2006, 11:28:23 am »
Now seriously, did ANYONE read all of Kaisers post?

I tried to, because I've been known to agree with him (once. see left), but lost the will to live half way through. Anyone else find this?
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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2006, 11:29:29 am »
great read as alwasy paul, but must admit your new pic is scary.

I agree about the pace in the side and players being able to switch positions, never have I been more excited about the team than now.

Kaizer, stop throwing stats in and try watchin the odd game, dont be so negative

Offline Kaizer

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2006, 11:30:56 am »
Kaiser, please wait before the eggs come out of the chicken before you start cooking the omlete.

I am getting sick of reading posts about how he's not this and he's not that. Pennant is now infront of a crowd that sings Youll Never Walk Alone, yet ironically, he's almost going to be walking alone from the off if peoples attitudes here are going to be any reflection for the people at Anfield.

Focus on his good points.

a) great dribbler and crosser
b) 23 and english
c) commitment and desire to play for Liverpool

Not to mention the symbolic nature of a man comming from being acting like an imbecile to being a whole person - haven't many here gone off the deep end? - this is how you learn about life. Its not all peachy. . What sort of PR that will have with kids on estates? Eh?


I`m not trying to be negative, I just wanted to raise a few questions I have been thinking about.

Paul mentioned the subject about how mouthwatering the prospect of having two wide men feeding of the balls from Alonso and Stevie behind the oppositions defense and I agree completely, so when I looked at Pennants stats I wonder if he is such a player since he only was called offside 6 times last season compared to our own Cisse`s 37 times.

We try to play the ball in behind if our opponents stand high on the pitch so I think it is a reasonable question to ask.
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Offline impartial

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2006, 11:31:44 am »
nidgemo, yes

football is a game played with legs (and benchtops)

not statistics on a computer screen in some championship manager database

Offline impartial

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2006, 11:32:55 am »
I`m not trying to be negative, I just wanted to raise a few questions I have been thinking about.

Paul mentioned the subject about how mouthwatering the prospect of having two wide men feeding of the balls from Alonso and Stevie behind the oppositions defense and I agree completely, so when I looked at Pennants stats I wonder if he is such a player since he only was called offside 6 times last season compared to our own Cisse`s 37 times.

We try to play the ball in behind if our opponents stand high on the pitch so I think it is a reasonable question to ask.

wheres the oracle?! :o

how do you know how we're going to play with 5 new players - possibly 6?!

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2006, 11:33:16 am »
I`m not trying to be negative, I just wanted to raise a few questions I have been thinking about.

Paul mentioned the subject about how mouthwatering the prospect of having two wide men feeding of the balls from Alonso and Stevie behind the oppositions defense and I agree completely, so when I looked at Pennants stats I wonder if he is such a player since he only was called offside 6 times last season compared to our own Cisse`s 37 times.

We try to play the ball in behind if our opponents stand high on the pitch so I think it is a reasonable question to ask.

but he played ina team that struggled to get the ball out there own half and he had to drop back to defend.

he will get the ball much further forward for Liverpool and may get caught offside a few more times, just for you

I think he is exactly waht we need, and am fed up of you bringin stats to back up any little problem you may have with the guy, do the same for alves and i bet you he was not caught offside or in the opponants half much either

Offline Indi

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2006, 11:33:56 am »
Now seriously, did ANYONE read all of Kaisers post?

I tried to, because I've been known to agree with him (once. see left), but lost the will to live half way through. Anyone else find this?
I read it all, but just disagreed with most of it. No offence but he seems to criticise signings if they're not the ones he wants and fails to look at the positives. Look on the bright side and don't forget he was playing in an awful Birmingham team last season!

Offline Armless Joe Gambino

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2006, 11:36:04 am »
One of the main advantages I see is freeing Stevie and to a lesser extent Harry to play in their favored positions, which should produce a well balanced team.

I am not to bothered with the statistics concerning Pennant's crossing/assists/goals etc. it seems to to me particularly with the crosses that it shows he is at least trying to beat defenders and get the ball into the box and not deciding to go to ground looking for a free kick, the argument that he has better players to aim for now does hold a lot of weight.

I am also sitting on the fence on the actual signing  but quietly hoping he will suprise a lot of people and reach his full potential wearing our treasured red shirt.

Good, thought provoking post by the way.
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Offline paul_ocon

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2006, 11:37:32 am »
Very good read, I can't wait for the new season to start
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Offline impartial

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2006, 11:37:48 am »
quick question... is "Kaiser", Rashid from that koptalk site.. haha i remember him

maybe theres one for every site.

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2006, 11:38:58 am »
Great post. Cant wait to see how all the new players Gel and the different possibilities its going to give us this season. I have been very impressed with Rafa's transfer dealings this summer so far, all we are missing is another striker and I believe we will have one of the most exciting squads in terms of experience, potential, new signings and minimisation of dead wood that we or any other team in the premiership has had in a long time.

With a weaker man managing the club I'd be worried, but Rafa always seems in full control.

Amen. If we had any other manager, I could understand why some fans might be apprehensive about the Bellamy and Pennant signings and the effect it might have on the team.

The media have been focusing and highlighting both Bellamy and Pennants "bad boy" past just as much as the positive aspects they will bring to the team, but to be honest I am not that worried and all the "bad boy" hype hasn't bothered me.

I dont believe Rafa would sign any player who he felt he could not manage or whos character might upset the team. He exudes such an air of professionalism, strong character and intelligence that it seems to have a calming effect on me when the media try and make negative observations about the clubs dealings. If that's the effect Rafa is having on me and I am just a fan, players working on a day to day basis must be reaping the rewards of working with a top class coach of his quality and experience. So iam actually looking forward to seeing how Bellamy, Pennant and all the new signings develop under his guidance.  They can only get better...

Cant wait for the match match this Saturday...
« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 11:53:08 am by burymeinmyliverpoolshirt »

Offline TheRedBull

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2006, 11:41:00 am »
I read it all, but just disagreed with most of it. No offence but he seems to criticise signings if they're not the ones he wants and fails to look at the positives. Look on the bright side and don't forget he was playing in an awful Birmingham team last season!
On the other hand, Crouch scored ton of goals at the end of 04-05 season before we signed him, yet Kaiser still hate him even with those awesome stat. Double Standard  :nirnir

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2006, 11:51:59 am »
Kaizer I'm not sure those stats are a very good view of how to look at a player. Looking at Rooben, 6 goals and 2 assists is hardly impressive for a winger, yet he would walk into almost any side in the world. There's also the fact that, although Pennant may have a lot of crosses and not many assists, you have to look with the strikers he was playing with, and even a lot of Birmingham's first choice strikers (who arn't that good anyway) were injured and he had even less good targets to aim for. You put that many high standard cross into the box in a Liverpool team, and goals will come. You only have to watch Pennant's crossing to see that the technique and standard of crossing is excellent.

When it comes to his ability on the ball, then I have to say I think he has quick feet, is a quick runner, and has a fast working mind. The problem at Brum was that he was told to hug the touchline, and whip in early crosses, which in fairness he did really well, but he wasn't really given the opportunity to express himself and fulfill his ability. At Liverpool, he will be told to whip crosses in from all sorts of different angles, and this will mean he will have to go past his man sometimes, come inside sometimes, and even make himself availible in the box on occations. This will allow us to see the best of Jermaine; how good that will be, we will have to wait in anticipation until the season starts.
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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2006, 11:58:01 am »


Paul mentioned the subject about how mouthwatering the prospect of having two wide men feeding of the balls from Alonso and Stevie behind the oppositions defense and I agree completely, so when I looked at Pennants stats I wonder if he is such a player since he only was called offside 6 times last season compared to our own Cisse`s 37 times.

We try to play the ball in behind if our opponents stand high on the pitch so I think it is a reasonable question to ask.

I think if you are trying to draw a parallel between being caught offside and penetrative play, I think you are sadly misguided. I think it's intelligent play if you don't get caught offside. Sadly for Cisse, I've always said on this forum, if he had 10% more intelligence and 10% less pace, he would have been unstoppable.
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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2006, 12:03:19 pm »
Cisse got caught offside a lot because he couldn't understand the offside rule. Poor old Rafa must have nearly given himself a heart condition, the amount of time he used to spend screaming at him from the touchline.
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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2006, 12:07:45 pm »
kaizer may not be every fukers cup of tea. but whats unreasonable about his post ? given reasoning for his thoughts. suppose most would just prefer the
"his fukin shit him that pennant eh"

am happy with pennant signing but if the stats are correct and he only has 4 assists from 227 crosses, its a valid assessment of his strengths and weaknesses. fuk me, i know brum had heskey up front (and we all know how prolific hes been in the past 4 years) but they cant all of been perfect balls.
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Offline zigackly

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2006, 12:13:27 pm »
am happy with pennant signing but if the stats are correct and he only has 4 assists from 227 crosses, its a valid assessment of his strengths and weaknesses. fuk me, i know brum had heskey up front (and we all know how prolific hes been in the past 4 years) but they cant all of been perfect balls.

That's 227 SUCCESSFUL crosses, i.e. they reached a player on his own team. The conversion of those chances into goals then depends on the player receiving the ball.
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Offline Kaizer

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2006, 12:14:04 pm »

I have to be honest and admit I have not seen that much of Pennant, but I have watched him enough times to say I have never thought, "wow this is a great little player, we should definite sign him"

A lot of people really look to rate him, but players have been hyped up before without living up to the hype, especially English players, so I will reserve judgment until I have seen him properly a couple of times in the red jersey.

If someone of those who have seen a lot of Pennant could tell anything about his decision making, his ability to go past a defender both on the inside and the outside, his ability to keep the ball, is he easily muscled out of matches etc..
I`m not looking for stereotype answers to this one, but well reasoned posts, its fair and square that he is very good in getting a cross in, but what else? And what can he bring to the team players like Garcia, Gerrard, Pongolle or Cisse could not have done, I`m thinking in goal contribution, assists, keeping the ball, be a good defender in midfield etc.
How good is his set pieces, does he take corners from both sides?

When I did some digging about him I also found out that both his goals this season came from inside the box, so my question is,

I also noticed the fact he was just caught offside 6 times last season, so this gives me three possibilities.
1. He is extremely good at beating the offside trap, but since he has got just 2 goals and 4 assists I don't think this is the case, the fact he has been playing for Birmingham which I don't think many teams play with a deep defense against tell me this cant be the case.
2. He usually don't chase the ball behind the oppositions defense, something I would have thought playing for Birmingham should give you good opportunities to do?
3. He drifts wide most of the time to collect the ball and try to get a cross in most of the time, something that I think is the case. If I have been right in my earlier suggestions I think this is the case.



Please focus on this part of my post, Zigackly you seem to have a good knowledge on the matter, I dont because I dont see too much of Brums matches and that is why I also ask these questions, because I would really like to know what I can expect from Pennant.

I have a theory about how Rafa would like Pennant to play on the wing but without insight knowledge I cant tell if he will be able to do that job.

Off course I can wait and judge for myself, but that will take about two months and since I am a curious person that is a bit too long a wait.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 12:18:11 pm by Kaizer »
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Offline Ole Gunnar

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2006, 12:14:20 pm »


so when I looked at Pennants stats I wonder if he is such a player since he only was called offside 6 times last season compared to our own Cisse`s 37 times.


Cissé never did figure out the offside rule, and he played a lot of games as a striker as well, so you can't compare him to any winger anyway.
How many times did the other wingers go in offside?

And when you play for a team that is relegated, you better not be running to much in offside, as you are most likely to spend a lot of time on your own half, and if your in offside, you are not doing your bit for the team.

Most of us have most likely not seen to many games with Pennant, so I don't think you will get your in depth analyze of him here. You should go to a Birmingham forum and post the questions you have, you might get the answers you seek.


Personally I will wait and see, I think he will do well, as he has always looked like a good player against us, so I'm optimistic (then again, I'm always optimistic).


And to the original post, as always a good read Paul.

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2006, 12:16:31 pm »
I believe the stats are for successful crosses, I am not sure what the definition is but I would assume it is that the pass was completed i.e. a team mate recieved the cross or the ball was placed in a dangerous area.  If unsuccessful (intercepted/put out of play) crosses are included the figure would be over 400.  But I do stand to be corrected on this interpretation.

If a winger is putting 227 crosses into dangerous areas or onto a team mate and only a handful are converted, it is fair to question the strikers as opposed to the winger.


kaizer may not be every fukers cup of tea. but whats unreasonable about his post ? given reasoning for his thoughts. suppose most would just prefer the
"his fukin shit him that pennant eh"

am happy with pennant signing but if the stats are correct and he only has 4 assists from 227 crosses, its a valid assessment of his strengths and weaknesses. fuk me, i know brum had heskey up front (and we all know how prolific hes been in the past 4 years) but they cant all of been perfect balls.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 12:18:53 pm by thetonyclifton »
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Offline zigackly

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Re: Pennant: Paying the Penance
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2006, 12:18:20 pm »
Kaizer, from what I have seen of Pennant, he has tricky feet and the ability to beat a man either side.

He can cross from deep or from behind the defence and find his man more often than not.

He is not the quickest but he does have a lot of pace.

He wasn't getting the kind of delivery to beat the offside trap regularly at Brum, and would often have to get behind the defence on his own.

He does run the line well and will drift wide to collect the ball. He can also come inside and run the diagonals but he will generally lay the ball off rather than go for goal.

His decision making is above average, and with Rafa coaching him I believe he will become a very intelligent player.

Not sure about corners from both sides as I am struggling to remember how well he takes corners from memory, but he is a good user of a dead ball.

What he offers over all the players you mention is that he is, in my opinion, one of the best crossers of the ball to grace the premier league since David Beckham.

He's not as fast or quite as tricky as Lennon, and his shot is not as good as Wright-Phillips. He does not get in the box very often either. These are his deficiencies, but I know who I would rather have on the wing as a proper wideman.

Also I'll be more than happy to review this post at the end of the season, as I feel very comfortable indeed making these assertions.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 12:31:11 pm by zigackly »
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