Topic: Trent Alexander-Arnold

[AndyMuller]

I don't want to see Gomez played at RB ever again to be honest. Not that he's bad there, he just keeps getting injured there.

[Yorkykopite]

Think Klopp goes with TAA on Friday and starts Gomez in his place at Barca actually.

Weird, weird stuff. Where do people get this from?

[hesbighesred]

10

That's absolutely ridiculous for a full-back. Especially when you add his two or three goals. That's nearly as good as...Andy Robertson.

Well worth every single penny of the £8million we bought them for.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

That's absolutely ridiculous for a full-back. Especially when you add his two or three goals. That's nearly as good as...Andy Robertson.

Well worth every single penny of the £8million we bought them for.

He only has scored once.

[hesbighesred]

Weird, weird stuff. Where do people get this from?

There's just a stock equation that goes something like:

Gomez = more solid.
Barca = great at attacking.
Therefore we must play Gomez against Barca.
Personally, I'd say the best way to beat Barca is to prevent their attackers getting on the ball, by pressing high, by shutting down Barca's passing at source. I'd rather have TAA and his recovery skill plus attacking nous for that job.

[rowan_d]

Gonna be very interesting to see how TAA and Salah deal with Alba between them. Similar predicament as Marcelo in the CL last year, but Salah was injured before the match had settled into a pattern where Marcelo could start to get forward.

Huddersfield first though.

[hesbighesred]

He only has scored once.

Sorry. I was including the brace he's going to score against Barca.

[classycarra]

There's just a stock equation that goes something like:

Gomez = more solid.
Barca = great at attacking.
Therefore we must play Gomez against Barca.
Personally, I'd say the best way to beat Barca is to prevent their attackers getting on the ball, by pressing high, by shutting down Barca's passing at source. I'd rather have TAA and his recovery skill plus attacking nous for that job.

I was about to reply to Yorky but then saw you had already done it.

Gomez, as much as I rate him as a defender, benefits from a sort of reverse Glen Johnson assumption/rule.

People saw how good Johnson was going forwards, so assumed he was incapable of defending well (which in a more conservative role for England he often did quite well). Therefore he was our attacking defender.

With Gomez they see that he is clearly not able to contribute as well as TAA in an attacking capacity (which really is no disrespect, given TAA's class). So the same reductionists assume he is therefore a better defensive defender.

For as highly as I and we obviously rate him at centre back, I actually don't think he's a better defender at right back than TAA (physical strength aside). Firstly, as we've seen this season having great attacking fullbacks is a great form of defence. Cardiff's wide players scarcely entered our half.  Secondly, TAA is much more switched on to covering the centre back than people realise, he has great proactive defensive instincts.

[Yorkykopite]

Well I bow to no man or woman in my admiration for Joe Gomez. I even believe he is absolutely fine at right back, while preferring him in the centre. But even if you thought Trent hadn't had a good season at full back or that he would be a weak spot against Barca (both highly questionable judgements themselves), it's surely insane to believe that another player, fresh back from long-term injury, should take his place in a Champions League semi-final away leg.

I can only imagine that you must have missed some important jab as a kid, or that you've got a David James-like obsession with video games, to come up with a suggestion like that. It's the frivolousness of the idea I cannot get my head around.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I was about to reply to Yorky but then saw you had already done it.

Gomez, as much as I rate him as a defender, benefits from a sort of reverse Glen Johnson assumption/rule.

People saw how good Johnson was going forwards, so assumed he was incapable of defending well (which in a more conservative role for England he often did quite well). Therefore he was our attacking defender.

With Gomez they see that he is clearly not able to contribute as well as TAA in an attacking capacity (which really is no disrespect, given TAA's class). So the same reductionists assume he is therefore a better defensive defender.

For as highly as I and we obviously rate him at centre back, I actually don't think he's a better defender at right back than TAA (physical strength aside). Firstly, as we've seen this season having great attacking fullbacks is a great form of defence. Cardiff's wide players scarcely entered our half.  Secondly, TAA is much more switched on to covering the centre back than people realise, he has great proactive defensive instincts.

I love Trent and would absolutely start him at Barca but I don't agree with this.

I think Gomez is a better defender than Trent. Klopp also seems to think this as when both are fit, he tends to side with Gomez at full-back against stronger opposition. I think the main reason for this is actually quite simple: Trent is far easier for opposing wingers to get in behind than Gomez is. Anyone with pace or trickery can beat Trent on at least a few occasions across 90 minutes, thereby exposing our back-line to dangerous scenarios for the opposition. You need both and then some to get past Gomez - I think I'm right in saying that only Sané and Neymar managed this in his handful of appearances there this season.

[classycarra]

I love Trent and would absolutely start him at Barca but I don't agree with this.

I think Gomez is a better defender than Trent. Klopp also seems to think this as when both are fit, he tends to side with Gomez at full-back against stronger opposition. I think the main reason for this is actually quite simple: Trent is far easier for opposing wingers to get in behind than Gomez is. Anyone with pace or trickery can beat Trent on at least a few occasions across 90 minutes, thereby exposing our back-line to dangerous scenarios for the opposition. You need both and then some to get past Gomez - I think I'm right in saying that only Sané and Neymar managed this in his handful of appearances there this season.

In the Huddersfield game I mentioned before he let an inordinate number of crosses come in unchallenged from his side. I can't say I recall him faring that much better one on one, but it's believable.

Only thing I would argue against what you're saying is that Gomez has more tended to start games that we don't want to lose rather than games against stronger opposition. But I think that conservatism (which I expect is in the past now, or at least would be offset by the tweaks to up our midfield's cretive output) seemed to lead to us unfortunately scuppering ourself in reducing our ability to progress the ball forwards quickly, and to create goalscoring chances from fullback

[LallanaInPyjamas]

In the Huddersfield game I mentioned before he let an inordinate number of crosses come in unchallenged from his side. I can't say I recall him faring that much better one on one, but it's believable.

Only thing I would argue against what you're saying is that Gomez has more tended to start games that we don't want to lose rather than games against stronger opposition. But I think that conservatism (which I expect is in the past now, or at least would be offset by the tweaks to up our midfield's cretive output) seemed to lead to us unfortunately scuppering ourself in reducing our ability to progress the ball forwards quickly, and to create goalscoring chances from fullback

But that conservatism is borne out because he believes Gomez to be a better defender than Trent, surely? In the same way he believes Milner and Wijnaldum to be better defensively than Keita and Lallana. It's all risk and reward at the end of the day.

I'm with you though, I prefer Trent there in terms of the bigger picture all day and I actually think we're more in need of a right-back who can compete with him to allow Gomez to be a centre-half only.

[Shaved Crossbar]

But even if you thought  that he would be a weak spot against Barca (both highly questionable judgements themselves)

It's not questionable if they play Dembele on the left. He's one of the fastest and best dribblers that there's ever been. Trent acquitted himself magnificently against Sane last year and has done well defensively on numerous occasions. But Mendez-Laing at the weekend and others this season have given us enough cause for concern about his defensive ability against fast dribblers, especially if it's an open game. And it will be an open game, because Jurgen isn't going to park any bus.

it's surely insane to believe that another player, fresh back from long-term injury, should take his place in a Champions League semi-final away leg.

It is, but that's why ideally Joe gets 45-90 minutes against Huddersfield and then we can see whether there's the possibility that he's sharp enough again.

[Yiannis]

Weird, weird stuff. Where do people get this from?

Well I bow to no man or woman in my admiration for Joe Gomez. I even believe he is absolutely fine at right back, while preferring him in the centre. But even if you thought Trent hadn't had a good season at full back or that he would be a weak spot against Barca (both highly questionable judgements themselves), it's surely insane to believe that another player, fresh back from long-term injury, should take his place in a Champions League semi-final away leg.

I can only imagine that you must have missed some important jab as a kid, or that you've got a David James-like obsession with video games, to come up with a suggestion like that. It's the frivolousness of the idea I cannot get my head around.

All I posted is just a take about who starts on Friday and then in the CL game.

Not even who I would like to see (which even then would just be a shout) but what I think Klopp will do. And what I get in response is absolute drivel like supposedly doubting Trent's quality or he hasn't had a great season, that I believe Gomez should take his place and Trent is a weak spot or I've got a David James like obsession with video games. Honestly how the fuck you come up with that stuff?

And that's besides your shitty attitude.

There's just a stock equation that goes something like:

Gomez = more solid.
Barca = great at attacking.
Therefore we must play Gomez against Barca.
Personally, I'd say the best way to beat Barca is to prevent their attackers getting on the ball, by pressing high, by shutting down Barca's passing at source. I'd rather have TAA and his recovery skill plus attacking nous for that job.

Stock equation, eh? Must, eh? If it's you that says it, it must be true then. It's just a prediction mate. There is a slight chance Trent is a bit tired, Klopp giving Gomez some minutes maybe towards using him from the start in a game really soon plus that he has used Gomez in big matches as a RB before like the City game at Anfield.

[PoetryInMotion]

Gomez against Huddersfield & Trent back against Barca. Gomez back against Newcastle. Trent back against Barca. Best we can do at this point of time.

[Coolie High]

But that conservatism is borne out because he believes Gomez to be a better defender than Trent, surely? In the same way he believes Milner and Wijnaldum to be better defensively than Keita and Lallana. It's all risk and reward at the end of the day.

I'm with you though, I prefer Trent there in terms of the bigger picture all day and I actually think we're more in need of a right-back who can compete with him to allow Gomez to be a centre-half only.

Yet Sane did nothing against Trent last season, when he is switched and focus he is basically as good as Gomez defensively, with the added caveat of being a better passer and playmaker than most midfielders.

[Perham]

Is there any team in world football who have two full backs as good as we have? TAA and Robbo are two of the most important players in our team and are vital to our system, which seems to put emphasis on attacking full backs. The fact that both of them have both got a really good amount of assists is something which has really helped us and they're two of my favourite players in this great squad we've got.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Yet Sane did nothing against Trent last season, when he is switched and focus he is basically as good as Gomez defensively, with the added caveat of being a better passer and playmaker than most midfielders.

We defended in a much more compact way that game than usual, no denying Trent did magnificently that day though.

[Knight]

I don't want to see Gomez played at RB ever again to be honest. Not that he's bad there, he just keeps getting injured there.

That's how I feel in some ways too, given how good he is at CB. Lets get him fully fit and play him CB with Virgil every game, and then we'll (almost) never concede. But presumably there's no objective reason why he would be more injury prone at RB so it's just been the rub of the green that's meant he's been getting injured at RB.

[killer-heels]

Trent is amazing.

[penga]

Clearly Trent has far more technical ability on the crosses and cross-field balls but I think Gomez is actually a more composed passer out the back from RB. When other teams press us sometimes Trent's pass completion rate goes down the drain to to 50-60% mark. Gomez usually maintains a very high level.

Defensively Gomez has been caught under long balls a few times but is generally more solid than Trent 1v1 and provides more aerial superiority. So if the plan is to rotate and go a bit more conservative then Gomez is a good choice.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Both have strength's and weaknesses, keep in mind Trent has 10 assists from the position, Gomez is a good player but he isn't better than Trent in the attacking third. We rely on our fullbacks massively.

[classycarra]

Clearly Trent has far more technical ability on the crosses and cross-field balls but I think Gomez is actually a more composed passer out the back from RB. When other teams press us sometimes Trent's pass completion rate goes down the drain to to 50-60% mark. Gomez usually maintains a very high level.

Defensively Gomez has been caught under long balls a few times but is generally more solid than Trent 1v1 and provides more aerial superiority. So if the plan is to rotate and go a bit more conservative then Gomez is a good choice.

This is why pass completion percentages are useless in isolation. I’m sorry, but there is absolutely no way Gomez is a more composed passer. The reason more might well (I don’t know if they do) be completed is because they’re almost always from right back into our number 6, VVD or the right sided 8. TAA on the other hand also plays balls into Firmino and finds runs from Salah and Mane against high lines

Sorry to nit pick on one point in a good post.

[AndyMuller]

Trent is amazing.

Agreed.

[Johns_Barn]

Clearly Trent has far more technical ability on the crosses and cross-field balls but I think Gomez is actually a more composed passer out the back from RB. When other teams press us sometimes Trent's pass completion rate goes down the drain to to 50-60% mark. Gomez usually maintains a very high level.

Defensively Gomez has been caught under long balls a few times but is generally more solid than Trent 1v1 and provides more aerial superiority. So if the plan is to rotate and go a bit more conservative then Gomez is a good choice.

Nailed it^

[Jookie]

Both have strength's and weaknesses, keep in mind Trent has 10 assists from the position, Gomez is a good player but he isn't better than Trent in the attacking third. We rely on our fullbacks massively.

You'd want Trent at right back in the vast majority of our games due to the attacking threat he brings.

In a much smaller amount of games you'd want Gomez (or a more defence minded RB) playing there.

Trent can be a bit inconsistent but he quality is undoubted. To be this good at 20 shows his talent. IMO, he's easily the best young player we've had since Gerrard.

[penga]

This is why pass completion percentages are useless in isolation. I’m sorry, but there is absolutely no way Gomez is a more composed passer. The reason more might well (I don’t know if they do) be completed is because they’re almost always from right back into our number 6, VVD or the right sided 8. TAA on the other hand also plays balls into Firmino and finds runs from Salah and Mane against high lines

Sorry to nit pick on one point in a good post.

Trent can find more incisive balls for sure but in certain games where we get pressed which is not often, I just noticed Trent's control and passing can tend to get more loose or a bit panicky (a bit like Henderson) whereas in the same types of games Gomez keeps his head and plays it cool (without first looking at stats). When we are pressed in certain situations it's not easy to pass to the CB or 6 as they can be covered or the passing lane cut off and the more likely option is to go long down the line where they will tightly mark Salah. You might need to dribble/shield the ball a bit first to wait for an option and then pass it accurately which I think Gomez does better (like Gini) if that makes sense. This is more relevant to my memory last season actually because this season even the likes of City have become much more conservative when playing us, no one really goes at us consistently through a game anymore.

Here's a video of what I'm talking about - the dribbling of Gomez at RB is much more cool IMO to get out of tight situations. It's not necessarily the pass actually. Trent would get bullied off the ball attempting most of these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq-GPc7UGoY

[Too early for flapjacks?]

Clearly Trent has far more technical ability on the crosses and cross-field balls but I think Gomez is actually a more composed passer out the back from RB. When other teams press us sometimes Trent's pass completion rate goes down the drain to to 50-60% mark. Gomez usually maintains a very high level.

Defensively Gomez has been caught under long balls a few times but is generally more solid than Trent 1v1 and provides more aerial superiority. So if the plan is to rotate and go a bit more conservative then Gomez is a good choice.

This is actually a good point. And on a wider point Gomez is generally as cool as a cucumber. He actually cost us a fair few goals/clear cut chances when he was at RB last year but they were almost always isolated mistakes in games where he played well. When he makes a mistake it doesn’t seem to knock his confidence which is a great attribute to have. He’s clearly full of self-belief.

[Coolie High]

This is why pass completion percentages are useless in isolation. I’m sorry, but there is absolutely no way Gomez is a more composed passer. The reason more might well (I don’t know if they do) be completed is because they’re almost always from right back into our number 6, VVD or the right sided 8. TAA on the other hand also plays balls into Firmino and finds runs from Salah and Mane against high lines

Sorry to nit pick on one point in a good post.

I kind of understand what he is saying..

[classycarra]

Trent can find more incisive balls for sure but in certain games where we get pressed which is not often, I just noticed Trent's control and passing can tend to get more loose or a bit panicky (a bit like Henderson) whereas in the same types of games Gomez keeps his head and plays it cool (without first looking at stats). When we are pressed in certain situations it's not easy to pass to the CB or 6 as they can be covered or the passing lane cut off and the more likely option is to go long down the line where they will tightly mark Salah. You might need to dribble/shield the ball a bit first to wait for an option and then pass it accurately which I think Gomez does better (like Gini) if that makes sense. This is more relevant to my memory last season actually because this season even the likes of City have become much more conservative when playing us, no one really goes at us consistently through a game anymore.

Here's a video of what I'm talking about - the dribbling of Gomez at RB is much more cool IMO to get out of tight situations. It's not necessarily the pass actually. Trent would get bullied off the ball attempting most of these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq-GPc7UGoY

I take your point about the symptom (incomplete pass) but entirely disagree about the cause. He is the polar opposite of panicky. Watch the last minute of the Spurs game after Kane had dived for a free kick. He takes a high ball down on his toe and calmly gets rid, and then the whistle goes. If anything causes his passing to drop, including when particularly pressured, it's his absolute confidence. And to be fair, he deserves to be that confident - even in games where he's being targeted (eg at Anfield against City last year, he manages to produce at the other end.  Significantly, Salah is also much freer to play to receive the ball further forward when Trent is playing. With Gomez playing, he has to work more from the touchline and drop in if the midfield are pressuring Gomez.

This is actually a good point. And on a wider point Gomez is generally as cool as a cucumber. He actually cost us a fair few goals/clear cut chances when he was at RB last year but they were almost always isolated mistakes in games where he played well. When he makes a mistake it doesn’t seem to knock his confidence which is a great attribute to have. He’s clearly full of self-belief.

I don't massively disagree with you, but I think this is in line with what I was saying about the sometimes binary way we can perceive full backs (good at attacking=bad at defending and vice versa). I agree Gomez is generally cool as a cucumber, but we're rationalising away his costly mistakes at RB because of the way he looks when he plays there, rather than assessing only how he's actually playing.

Another thing commentators often do with Trent is see him as a child, and so leap to the 'oh that was inexperienced or that was a clear mistake' when he's been put under pressure/made a mistake but recovered. On the other hand, Gomez when recovering from being put under pressure/made a mistake will be complimented by those same commentators for coolly dealing with the problem.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Another thing commentators often do with Trent is see him as a child, and so leap to the 'oh that was inexperienced or that was a clear mistake' when he's been put under pressure/made a mistake but recovered. On the other hand, Gomez when recovering from being put under pressure/made a mistake will be complimented by those same commentators for coolly dealing with the problem.

Dude, you know they're about a year apart in age? Trent has played 20 more games for us now as well.

[classycarra]

Dude, you know they're about a year apart in age? Trent has played 20 more games for us now as well.

I do. I’m talking about commentators. Probably because of his baby face, and less built body

[Perham]

I think the main difference between Trent and Gomez in terms of strengths and weaknesses is that one (Gomez) is a centre back and one (TAA) is a full back. This obviously means that they'll have different skills required for their positions and why I much prefer Trent to be at right back if possible.

Trent is much more effective in attack than Gomez, who seems to have a more defensive mindset and is generally better at the defensive side of things. Our system requires the full backs to contribute a lot in attack and TAA does this really well. This could be partly down to him originally being a midfielder, therefore he could be more attack minded than Gomez, who is superior as a defender.

Gomez seems to be a lot calmer as well. This isn't to say that Trent isn't but at times, it's common for one mistake for him to lead to a few more. Gomez on the other hand, seems to have a calmness which may have come partly from playing alongside VVD but that I think he had even before then. This means that in general, he has better passing, although Trent is clearly better at crossing as seen by his number of assists.

They're both really good players but I think they should be utilised in different ways to suit these strengths. In my opinion, Gomez should only be used as a right back if Trent is unavailable.

[PoetryInMotion]

You'd want Trent at right back in the vast majority of our games due to the attacking threat he brings.

In a much smaller amount of games you'd want Gomez (or a more defence minded RB) playing there.

Trent can be a bit inconsistent but he quality is undoubted. To be this good at 20 shows his talent. IMO, he's easily the best young player we've had since Gerrard.

To be fair, Sterling was quite ridiculously good at this age as well.

I don't think Trent is inconsistent at all. His bad games are a 6 at worst, he has never been roasted (like Zaha has done Milner for example) ever since he became a regular for us and he has had difficult opponents like Sane, Sanchez (at Arsenal), Neymar, Hazard, Coman, Ribery, Insigne etc. His decent games are 7s & he hits 8s and 9s quite regularly as well with his general defending & his frequent involvement in our attacks & counter-attacks.

[Coolie High]

To be fair, Sterling was quite ridiculously good at this age as well.

I don't think Trent is inconsistent at all. His bad games are a 6 at worst, he has never been roasted (like Zaha has done Milner for example) ever since he became a regular for us and he has had difficult opponents like Sane, Sanchez (at Arsenal), Neymar, Hazard, Coman, Ribery, Insigne etc. His decent games are 7s & he hits 8s and 9s quite regularly as well with his general defending & his frequent involvement in our attacks & counter-attacks.

He’s not better than Gomez.(who is?)

[Jookie]

To be fair, Sterling was quite ridiculously good at this age as well.

You are correct.

He slipped my mind when posting. He's the player who we've sold in recent years that I regret the most. He's not the best or most influential player we've sold but feels like his sale was avoidable. He's gone to a rival and directly affected our chances of winning things by being their best player.

[El Lobo]

He’s not better than Gomez.(who is?)

He’s a better RB, Gomez is a better CB

Doesn’t really matter though, 20 and 21 years old. Exactly the calibre of youngster we need, shows the others how good you need to be to make it here.

[Coolie High]

He’s a better RB, Gomez is a better CB

Doesn’t really matter though, 20 and 21 years old. Exactly the calibre of youngster we need, shows the others how good you need to be to make it here.

Yes exactly top top youngsters.

[afc tukrish]

He’s a better RB, Gomez is a better CB

Doesn’t really matter though, 20 and 21 years old. Exactly the calibre of youngster we need, shows the others how good you need to be to make it here.

Eventually, they'll both turn 28, though...

[rebel23]

Another assist for TAA!