Topic: Lampard named Derby Manager

[Djozer]

Having stood on coaching courses with aforementioned ex professionals, and watched them bollocks their sessions up time and again, and then watched them have their hands held and their ego's soothed by instructors, while the rest of us get chewed out for placing a cone down a half a yard too short of the next one, I can honestly say you're talking shite

I do remember, though, the time a then-current first division British manager (but not the Premier League, obviously) had to be shown how a flat back four works, because he only knew how to operate a sweeper system. That was the eye opener for me. And it wasn't one of the course instructors that had to show him

Played a bit for Porthmadog youth team as a kid (get me and my high level skills eh  ), and we sometimes got to watch the seniors train, carried shit about for them, acted as ball boys etc. For a while an ex "top pro" managed the senior team (naming no names but he used to play for Man Utd, when they were shit admittedly, so looking back I think it was a bit of a coup for the club in many ways) after finishing his career as a player there.

Even as a 9-10 year old as I was at the time, it was obvious the guy didn't have a clue. He seemed of almost sub-normal intelligence, and you could tell just by watching that all the players thought he was an idiot too. It was almost embarrassing, in a way. At that age you tend to hero worship coaches, players and managers, and here was this guy who'd played at the top level in England, seasoned Welsh international and everything, and watching him work was genuinely painful - quite funny, but painful. He got sacked a few months later, after losing pretty much every game if memory serves. Had stupid hair too.

[rowan_d]

Played a bit for Porthmadog youth team as a kid (get me and my high level skills eh  ), and we sometimes got to watch the seniors train, carried shit about for them, acted as ball boys etc. For a while an ex "top pro" managed the senior team (naming no names but he used to play for Man Utd, when they were shit admittedly, so looking back I think it was a bit of a coup for the club in many ways) after finishing his career as a player there.

Even as a 9-10 year old as I was at the time, it was obvious the guy didn't have a clue. He seemed of almost sub-normal intelligence, and you could tell just by watching that all the players thought he was an idiot too. It was almost embarrassing, in a way. At that age you tend to hero worship coaches, players and managers, and here was this guy who'd played at the top level in England, seasoned Welsh international and everything, and watching him work was genuinely painful - quite funny, but painful. He got sacked a few months later, after losing pretty much every game if memory serves. Had stupid hair too.

He kept Southampton up to be fair

edit: bollocks, didn't realise he won 2 league titles in his second spell

[Djozer]

He kept Southampton up to be fair

edit: bollocks, didn't realise he won 2 league titles in his second spell

Aye, I believe you're thinking of a different stupid haired Welsh international turned manager who played for Utd. The one I'm referring too was even thicker, if you can believe that, and nowhere near Sparky in terms of talent (although in fairness, he was fairly decent (as a player) for the League of Wales, even at the tail end of his career). Don't think Hughes' ego would have allowed him to manage a team at Port's level anyway!

It's entirely possible no one here's ever heard of him and I'm not really sure why I avoided using his name - some misguided attempt at respect maybe, or just the idea that one probably shouldn't refer to people on the internet using their names if you're not being complimentary. It was Mickey Thomas.

[IgorBobbins]

Ex Man Utd? Welsh? Stupid hair?  Thick as pig sh*t?

That's gotta be Sobbie Ravage*, surely?

(*Name altered to protect identity)

[Chakan]

Ex Man Utd? Welsh? Stupid hair?  Thick as pig sh*t?

That's gotta be Sobby Ravage*, surely?

(*Name altered to protect identity)

[FiSh77]

Ex Man Utd? Welsh? Stupid hair?  Thick as pig sh*t?

That's gotta be Sobbie Ravage*, surely?

(*Name altered to protect identity)

blayton clackmore

was porthmadog's player/manager about 10 years ago

[Lush is the best medicine...]

blayton clackmore

was porthmadog's player/manager about 10 years ago

thought it was tickey mhomas

[Red Beret]

No, fair play to Frank, he's not taking the easy way out in putting himself forward for bigger jobs he's not really  qualified for. But the idea that just because a person was a professional player means they have something about them to make them managers or coaches needs to die a swift death. There's no correlation between the two. Management is as much of a talent and skill as playing is, and you don't transfer one to the other (in either direction!)

I totally agree.  That said we need to see the players take their chances at management in order to know if they're actually any good! 

[elsewhere]

I actually appreciate both ambitions of Gerrard and Lampard , they could've stayed in BT Studio and enjoy the money but they preferred the challenge. So after years of Gerrard or Lampard comparisons as players, now we have both starting management career same year.

[Peabee]

Aye, I believe you're thinking of a different stupid haired Welsh international turned manager who played for Utd. The one I'm referring too was even thicker, if you can believe that, and nowhere near Sparky in terms of talent (although in fairness, he was fairly decent (as a player) for the League of Wales, even at the tail end of his career). Don't think Hughes' ego would have allowed him to manage a team at Port's level anyway!

It's entirely possible no one here's ever heard of him and I'm not really sure why I avoided using his name - some misguided attempt at respect maybe, or just the idea that one probably shouldn't refer to people on the internet using their names if you're not being complimentary. It was Mickey Thomas.

Did he sell you any dodgy tenners?

[Djozer]

thought it was tickey mhomas

Yup.

Did he sell you any dodgy tenners?

Haha. Na, and I only found out about that years later. Believe me, from what I saw, he'd be incapable of masterminding any sort of counterfeiting scam. Although maybe that was why he got caught...

[PhaseOfPlay]

I totally agree.  That said we need to see the players take their chances at management in order to know if they're actually any good!

Sure - but my ire is not actually aimed at the people going for the jobs, but the system that says "no experience? No problem, here you go, have a job here, mate!", while hard-working, experienced and more qualified coaches a bit down the ladder are restricted in their opportunities.

Same happened when Julian Dicks, who had never coached women before, got the West Ham Ladies manager job, when there were probably at least 50 coaches within a 20 mile radius of West Ham's training ground who were more qualified and experienced in coaching women's football. It's a stupid, cronyism system. But the people themselves, they're not going to turn down opportunities, even if they're not qualified for them. The whole licensing system was supposed to eliminate that, and allow qualified coaches to go for jobs they are qualified for. Clearly, that's not the case

[stevieG786]

BT sports lost both Lampard and Gerrard now ! ha

and the replacements are Keane and Kompany. awful 

[Red Beret]

Sure - but my ire is not actually aimed at the people going for the jobs, but the system that says "no experience? No problem, here you go, have a job here, mate!", while hard-working, experienced and more qualified coaches a bit down the ladder are restricted in their opportunities.

Same happened when Julian Dicks, who had never coached women before, got the West Ham Ladies manager job, when there were probably at least 50 coaches within a 20 mile radius of West Ham's training ground who were more qualified and experienced in coaching women's football. It's a stupid, cronyism system. But the people themselves, they're not going to turn down opportunities, even if they're not qualified for them. The whole licensing system was supposed to eliminate that, and allow qualified coaches to go for jobs they are qualified for. Clearly, that's not the case

Of course it's wrong for qualified coaches to be denied jobs by players with no experience in the backroom side of the game.  I suppose we should look at the post playing careers of the likes of Shanks, Paisley and also Kendall, but even then they didn't just walk into managers' jobs.  They had to serve an apprenticeship.

Really I suppose that's where it should be.  Anybody looking for a career in management should be in the coaching staff or shadowing a current manager, and not just wangling their name onto a ticket because of who they are or what they achieved as a player.  But then the system is ripe for cronyism, as you say.

[Bread]

I know he has strong ties to Chelsea, but I actually hope Lampard does well. Partly because I could tolerate him as a pundit, but also because I want to see the merry-go-round of tired, ancient washed-up British managers come to a conclusion, and if the likes of Lampard and Darren Moore actually do well, it could provide the catalyst for other clubs to considering making a brave, young managerial appointment. Hopefully Derby and West Brom can at least finish higher than the likes of Pulis' Middlesbrough, Bruce's Aston Villa and McLaren's QPR.

[FiSh77]

and the replacements are Keane and Kompany. awful 

Everton have done well to palm Michael Keane off on BT to be fair

[RedForeverTT]

That's a genuine question because I don't know the numbers, but for every Zidane I suspect you'll find several Shearer's, Sherwood's and Gary Neville's.

I hope he does well, because he seems like a decent and dedicated bloke. The approach is flawed in so many ways though, and for a talented coach looking for an opportunity, I can only imagine the extent to which it sticks in the throat.

Not a decent bloke. I cannot forgive him for breaking Alonso's ankle and pretended nothing happen.

Zidane has his work done for him. How hard is it to walk into a job with a structure in place and basically the best players in the world who already knew him from the start?

Same for Gerrard, it will be a different ball game for them. They will need to work on transfers, buying players in the mid-tier that anyone hardly knows. While the likes of Zidane, Mourinho and Pep plays fantasy football manager, Lampard and Gerrard will really have to slog it out for £500k transfer budget.

I am not sure if both of them are ready for it but I hope Gerrard succeed and Lampard fail.

[Henry Kissinger]

Played a bit for Porthmadog youth team as a kid (get me and my high level skills eh  ), and we sometimes got to watch the seniors train, carried shit about for them, acted as ball boys etc. For a while an ex "top pro" managed the senior team (naming no names but he used to play for Man Utd, when they were shit admittedly, so looking back I think it was a bit of a coup for the club in many ways) after finishing his career as a player there.

Even as a 9-10 year old as I was at the time, it was obvious the guy didn't have a clue. He seemed of almost sub-normal intelligence, and you could tell just by watching that all the players thought he was an idiot too. It was almost embarrassing, in a way. At that age you tend to hero worship coaches, players and managers, and here was this guy who'd played at the top level in England, seasoned Welsh international and everything, and watching him work was genuinely painful - quite funny, but painful. He got sacked a few months later, after losing pretty much every game if memory serves. Had stupid hair too.

I think it's disgusting that they made you do this, and to think how humiliating it must have been for you especially at such a young age. I hope you weren't too scarred by this. Perhaps an organisation could be set up to protect our youngsters from such foul and degrading acts like this.

The motto could be:

We won't take shit, and we certainly won't carry shit!

All the best Djozer mate, hope this finds you well.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Love this appointment just because of how Sol destroying it must be to Campbell

[Skidder.]

Incoming Derby v Rangers friendly!

1-2, Gerrard to throw one in last minute.

Paddypower it lads.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Love this appointment just because of how Sol destroying it must be to Campbell

and his mates in the press trying to make it out as some kind of racism when in reality Campbell is a bizarre tit who’s disloyalty to the club that made him sums him up whereas the other two come across pretty well and were much greater players, I mean look at derby and rangers fans being happy with those two, doubt they would be with campbell

[Henry Kissinger]

Ah no, fair points, I wasn't trying to catch you out or anything. But it's a bit of "self-perpetuating cycle" in British management - club owners who don't know any better hire ex-pros because of their famous names, contacts, and playing career, therefore, in Britain, the majority of trophy winners who are British will have been ex-pros. But contrast that with Italy or Spain or Portugal, where coaching ability will make you stand out, and the federations are more equable with getting more A Licenced coaches into the system - a manager like Sarri, for example, who worked in a bank until he was 44 before getting into coaching, would never get a chance in England. Neither would Mourinho (more's the pity, I'm sure some are thinking ), or maybe even Rafa. And it's not because of ability. It's simply because if Joe T. Coach with a UEFA Pro Licence and 20 years of success with lower teams goes for the same job as Alan Retired, ex-England international with no licences and who's just stepped off the pundits couch to try his hand at management for the first time, then Joe T. Coach has next to no chance unless he's being interviewed by a savvy club owner who isn't blinded by playing reputation - and those types of owners/chairmen are rare.

I have no ill will towards this appointment, but there are several coaches who might have done a better job than Lampard might do, who wouldn't have even got a look-in because they can't compete with Lampard's playing career.

I'm curious to know who you were thinking about when you wrote this bit.

[bird_lfc]

Love this appointment just because of how Sol destroying it must be to Campbell

This actually crossed my mind as well

[TepidT2O]

Very sad story today that his wife has been unable to leave the house due to threats formma stalker...


There are some sick people out there..

[OOS]

I totally agree.  That said we need to see the players take their chances at management in order to know if they're actually any good!

I like Lampard, always comes across as a decent fella and if he played for us, we would have loved him. 

No idea if this is a good move, no idea what he is like as a coach, but Derby are a bit of shambles. Interesting to see how he gets on.

[MrGrumpy]

Did he sell you any dodgy tenners?

[MrGrumpy]

Does he have the hunger to succeed as a manager?

[Skeeve]

From a purely practical point of view it makes a lot more sense than Gerrard to Rangers.  Yes there'll be pressure to secure promotion but Lampard wont come under the same kind of very public scrutiny Gerrard will.

We're always saying how ex players should cut their managerial teeth in the lower divisions, so isn't Frank at least showing a bit of common sense, compared to Gary at Valencia?  True, the Championship is a competitive shark pit and probably not the best place to start, but a failure there should be relatively low profile and prove to be valuable experience.  He's really got nothing to lose.

While Gerrard's job has higher public scrutiny, he had actually started the right way by coaching a U-x side and it is only his decision to jump straight from a bit of that into a manager's role that is the mistake, has Lampard even done any coaching with a youth side before getting this job?

[Skeeve]

Sure - but my ire is not actually aimed at the people going for the jobs, but the system that says "no experience? No problem, here you go, have a job here, mate!", while hard-working, experienced and more qualified coaches a bit down the ladder are restricted in their opportunities.

It is crazy really, even entry-level jobs these days ask for experience and most other jobs certainly wouldn't count experience in a related area as being valid e.g. an automated testing role is never going to a manual tester ahead of experienced automated testers as despite the skillsets being similar there are crucial differences.

[The North Bank]

I dont see the problem with getting a job without experience, youll still be judged like everyone else when you are actually in the job, if Lampard and Gerrard lose their first 10 games theyll both be sacked, and will find it tough to get another one, this isnt a freebie.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I dont see the problem with getting a job without experience, youll still be judged like everyone else when you are actually in the job, if Lampard and Gerrard lose their first 10 games theyll both be sacked, and will find it tough to get another one, this isnt a freebie.

plus they have experience of actually playing the game for a long time in senior roles in the squad under top managers who they will have learnt from unlike a lot of coaches lower down the pole who’ve just done coaching

[tubby]

Does he have the hunger to succeed as a manager?

Heh.

[Skeeve]

plus they have experience of actually playing the game for a long time in senior roles in the squad under top managers who they will have learnt from unlike a lot of coaches lower down the pole who’ve just done coaching

Ah, the Giggs rationalisation in action.

[afc tukrish]

Ah, the Giggs rationalisation in action.

The best part is the "just done coaching" bit...

You know, just done what is meant to be done.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

The best part is the "just done coaching" bit...

You know, just done what is meant to be done.

you do know that being a good coach doesn’t mean you’ll do a good job running the show, despite what one person on here thinks?

Ah, the Giggs rationalisation in action.

or zidane, pep, cruyff, dalglish etc etc

[Samie]

Those aren't the norm but the exceptions.

[Samie]

I mean Cruyff revolutionised coaching and coaches still used his methods to this day. Fat Frank will be lucky if he last's six months.

[Gerry Attrick]

I can understand why Derby have decided to do something a bit different though. McClaren, Rowett and Clement have a reputation for being good coaches, but couldn't get them over the line, so they probably hope Lampard's big game experience as a player can help their squad and stop them needing the heimlich manoeuvre in March.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I mean Cruyff revolutionised coaching and coaches still used his methods to this day. Fat Frank will be lucky if he last's six months.

based on what, he may never have been a coach but the man clearly is a bright guy and has always been well thought of in the game, don’t think anyone is expecting a pep/cruyff style evolution of the game but he’s worked under many great managers and is clearly the cerebral type so i can’t see him completely bombing like some think and is more like those guys mentioned than say maradona

if there’s one ex England midfielder taking on a job who will be lucky to last 6 months it’s the one in the division below

[Samie]

Based on him having never coached a team in his life and his qualification level obtained so far are lower than Stevie's.  He's also going into a team who finished in 6th place this last season. He will be expected to at least get them into another play-off campaign.  Working under great managers means nothing if so how come all of Fergies boy's didn't rip it up?