Author Topic: Solidarity and tributes from fans of other clubs  (Read 257925 times)

Offline kopite77

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,132
  • In Jurgen we trust!
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #240 on: September 18, 2012, 08:38:51 am »
To be fair this city's got no room to talk about electing absolute C U N T s, the police authority actually elected Bettison as Chief Constable AFTER his role covering up Hillsborough! >:(
HARRY HARRIS, MARK LAWRENSON, JOSE MOURIHNO,PETER KENYON, ROMAN ABRAMOVICH, ALAN HANSEN, YOU GUY'S TOOK ONE HELL OF A BEATING

AND Mr KENWRIGHT YOU CAN STICK YOUR FUCKING GROUNDSHARE UP YOUR ARSE!

Hicks and Gillett, Game Over, thanks for Fuck All Fuckfaces, Internet Terrorist and Proud!

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #241 on: September 18, 2012, 08:41:10 am »
To be fair this city's got no room to talk about electing absolute C U N T s, the police authority actually elected Bettison as Chief Constable AFTER his role covering up Hillsborough! >:(

Careful there though - I have it on good authority that they were being totally truthful when they said they had no idea of his role at Hillsborough.  The papers only really came to light afterwards and it is not the sort of thing the slimy twat was likely to include on his CV when applying for the Merseyside job is it?
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline redrockydennis

  • Annie Wilkes
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,666
  • gonna paint me jarg wheelie bin purple
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #242 on: September 18, 2012, 08:43:51 am »
Careful there though - I have it on good authority that they were being totally truthful when they said they had no idea of his role at Hillsborough.  The papers only really came to light afterwards and it is not the sort of thing the slimy twat was likely to include on his CV when applying for the Merseyside job is it?

I remember at the time a fair few people being disgusted at him becoming chief constable, he may not have had it on his cv at the time, but he was a part of the clique of officers that was behind it all.

http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/9927055._Why_I_resigned_over_Norman_Bettison_s_appointment_as_Merseyside_chief_constable____Cllr_Steve_Foulkes/?ref=rss

This guy was one of 3 people to quit the police authority at the time.

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/bettison.shtm


Bettison was finally approved by an 11-3 vote by members for Merseyside's Police Authority on 2nd November 1998. The actual day's proceedings were a comedy of errors, and the authority members literally fell over themselves in attempts to pass the buck.

Bettison's nameplate is now firmly screwed into place at this office in Canning Street Headquarters. Bettison knows most Merseysiders don't want him, but he soon formulates a strategy to try and hoodwink the local population into accepting him. Even though the Hillsborough Justice Campaign presented a 15,000 petition against his appointment
.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 09:02:15 am by redrockydennis »
"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes,
of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass.
It is terribly simple."

Offline And Could He Play

  • aka And Could He Play.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 27,448
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #243 on: September 18, 2012, 08:46:38 am »
I remember at the time a fair few people being disgusted at him becoming chief constable, he may not have had it on his cv at the time, but he was a part of the clique of officers that was behind it all.

thats true

isnt there a video of a woman virtually attacking him outside th station?
www. ... .com      RAWK Clique Leader
Not saying my ex girlfriend was a slag but even the label in her knickers said next.

Offline kopite77

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,132
  • In Jurgen we trust!
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #244 on: September 18, 2012, 08:48:55 am »
Careful there though - I have it on good authority that they were being totally truthful when they said they had no idea of his role at Hillsborough.  The papers only really came to light afterwards and it is not the sort of thing the slimy twat was likely to include on his CV when applying for the Merseyside job is it?
Sorry VDM, I'll take your word for it, but you would have thought as soon as it came to light they would have sacked the bastard!
HARRY HARRIS, MARK LAWRENSON, JOSE MOURIHNO,PETER KENYON, ROMAN ABRAMOVICH, ALAN HANSEN, YOU GUY'S TOOK ONE HELL OF A BEATING

AND Mr KENWRIGHT YOU CAN STICK YOUR FUCKING GROUNDSHARE UP YOUR ARSE!

Hicks and Gillett, Game Over, thanks for Fuck All Fuckfaces, Internet Terrorist and Proud!

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #245 on: September 18, 2012, 09:04:49 am »
Sorry VDM, I'll take your word for it, but you would have thought as soon as it came to light they would have sacked the bastard!

There were allegations at the time but no real proof.  Which means that they did not really have grounds to sack him.  Appointing him was a bad decision but one that was probably taken in good faith. 
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline redrockydennis

  • Annie Wilkes
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,666
  • gonna paint me jarg wheelie bin purple
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #246 on: September 18, 2012, 09:06:16 am »
There were allegations at the time but no real proof.  Which means that they did not really have grounds to sack him.  Appointing him was a bad decision but one that was probably taken in good faith. 

Allegedly jack straw forced it through
"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes,
of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass.
It is terribly simple."

Offline And Could He Play

  • aka And Could He Play.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 27,448
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #247 on: September 18, 2012, 09:06:37 am »
There were allegations at the time but no real proof.  Which means that they did not really have grounds to sack him.  Appointing him was a bad decision but one that was probably taken in good faith. 

fuck him anyway, he'll be getting a torrid time soon in Walton.
www. ... .com      RAWK Clique Leader
Not saying my ex girlfriend was a slag but even the label in her knickers said next.

Offline Rafa_La

  • Would give Chopper one by mouth
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,675
  • Liverpool, Did you think we would leave you dying?
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #248 on: September 18, 2012, 09:11:22 am »
Same here mate, had the same experiance returning to the pub at the top of one of the hills...in those days pubs would be shut before 5, but the Manager opened it up when I asked could I use the phone...it was on the bar and needed money to use...as I fumbled for change the Manager lent over and turned a key "Free Calls" he said and told one of the lads to go outside and tell other fans. Its one of the stories I always well up about recalling, and like yourself, telling me mam that me and our kid were alive and her breaking down .... even after 23 three years, it still hits me.

On the way out of Sheffield you saw quese of fans lining up outside houses waiting to use peoples phones, as they opened their doors to them.

Neighbour got the call for our Mam. She fainted before she got to phone.
Brother rung off. We were left wondering.
Later brother walked in with me Da.
Them hours are still a vacuum of horror.
Nunca me bajoneé, mi conciencia estaba tranquila porque sabía cómo habían sido las cosas.
"The reason i never felt depressed is because my conscience was clear, I Knew what had really happened."
Luis Suarez
YNWA

Offline redmark

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,395
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #249 on: September 18, 2012, 09:16:32 am »
Mate..I'm so glad I posted on here today...I expected antagonism..I got understanding...I expected vitriol...I got invites...
Its ever so hard to approach this as a Wednesday fan......We feel so ashamed of what happened at our ground in that fateful year...on that insane afternoon...Our club let you down...our police force did you the most dispicable disservice..and Us as Wednesday fans mainly kept our heads down and hoped it would blow over...didn't know what to do...to be honest.
I have always argued your corner...in every thread on every Wednesday website...because I KNOW what football was about in those dark days..
I feel i have to say sorry in every post I make about this...theres a sort of guilt I think felt by most Wednesday fans of a certain age...dunno why...but I feel it still...and in all honesty....I am so sorry for what happened in my city that day...in the ground ive been toddling down to for over 40 years...I used to trot down there just to sniff the bricks...Ive stood outside there with no money...just to run up the ramp with 15 minutes left as a broke teenager..to watch us lose by 2 to bloody Wrexham....
Its history...its history that got us semi finals when we probably did not deserve them.....
I would ..finally.. like to thank you all for your understanding...I feel so much better for sort of laying it all out...where it actually matters..for facing what I thought would be a trial...but finding it was nothing like that....It took me over a week to build up the bottle to register on here...I should have done it immediately....
God Bless...goodnight
Andy

As a Liverpool fan originally from Doncaster, I've winced once or twice at the 'South Yorkshire Mass Murderers' terminology - but the meaning has always been clearly directed at South Yorkshire Police (with some degree of responsibility on Sheffield Wednesday and Sheffield City Council for the state of the Leppings Lane end and control). I was a season ticket holder or otherwise regular match goer before Hillsborough and for about 3 years afterwards. I lived in Liverpool from 1987 to 1992. My 'South Yorkshire' accent was never remarked on (apart from once being loudly and amusingly informed of the correct scouse pronunciation of a certain swear word on the Kop), let alone the cause for any trouble.

I've browsed a couple of Wednesday forums recently and it seems some fans have a particular bitterness about the issue, possibly because of the association the rest of football places on the word 'Hillsborough' now. Judging by the claims on such forums, it seems there were a couple of hundred thousand Wednesday fans stewarding or otherwise in place to see 'bad behaviour' that day; others ("pushing from the back") clearly never attended a game where fans were standing, let alone in the particular surroundings of Leppings Lane.

Thanks for the courage to come on here and offering your support - and the recognition that we aren't half as scary as we're made out to be ;).

Stop whining : https://spiritofshankly.com/ : https://thefsa.org.uk/join/ : https://reclaimourgame.com/
The focus now should not be on who the owners are, but limits on what owners can do without formal supporter agreement. At all clubs.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #250 on: September 18, 2012, 09:18:09 am »
Allegedly jack straw forced it through

Cannot believe that for a minute really.  Non labour members of the MPA would have been all over that.
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline helmboy_nige

  • A diplomat... except in the face of total morons
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,616
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #251 on: September 18, 2012, 10:12:44 am »
Some lovely stories from Yorkshire lads here.  I've lived in Sheffield now since 1996 and for 9 years lived a short walk from Hillsborough.  Used to walk up Leppings Lane every day to get the tram.  A strange place, to say the least.

I've tended not to talk about it with people in Sheffield partially because I tended to have the opinion that most people were against us Liverpool fans.  I've noticed how much more open everything has been since last wednesday and I can understand the sense of shame some people may feel.  But I'd echo what everyone else has said, it wasn't the fans of any club that were to blame here.  Attacks on South Yorkshire (a place I consider my home) are on the establishment figures that allowed this to happen, and most importantly, on Maggies Stormtroopers.

I've really enjoyed reading the points from fans across the country, and you are all more than welcome in my book.  As so many have said before, it could have been any club that this had happened to.


Offline WEST HAM PAUL

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,774
  • I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #252 on: September 18, 2012, 12:03:21 pm »
As someone who also lived in Sheffield for 3 years I personally love it as a city & found the locals friendly & knowledgable about there football.

I visited Hillsborough & Bramall Lane many times & the subject of Hillsborough never came up but it wasn't my place to mention it & as I'd always backed the Liverpool point of view anyway so didn't want to potentially offend any locals.

Owlsfan posts have been really interesting. Stick around mate Rawk is a friendly place , funny & some seriously intelligent posters . It's the best fans forum on the Internet & I'm not a red lol
Fortunes Always Hiding. 

And The Sun Shines Now

Sex bombs to the left of me would be playboy bunnies to the right and here I am stuck in the middle with my pasty white bird.

Offline Chriswm34

  • Boys Pen
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #253 on: September 19, 2012, 10:59:26 am »
I'll start by saying I'm a match-going Manchester United fan (since 1974) so I understand that some of you won't want to read on any further. Like Gooner Stu, I have joined the forum so I can make a comment so please forgive the intrusion.

I won't pretend to like your club. I grew up in Southport and was surrounded by LFC fans during the halcyon days of Hansen, Lawrenson, Clemence, Souness, Dalglish et al and it wasn't pleasant watching you win everything every year. However, I have an affinity with the city of Liverpool, having lived there for a number of years (I was living in Huyton in 1989) and it also happens to be where I met my wife. Many of her family couldn't believe she was marrying a Manc and some of them wouldn't even come to the wedding. C'est la Vie...

I want to say how relieved I am to see the truth finally come out. Unlike many of my fellow United fans, I had few doubts as to where the blame lay. A home and away fan myself, I know the level of treatment fans often receive from officialdom and therefore, my first thoughts were always that you'd been blamed for something you didn't do. My wife worked with a victim of the Hillsborough Disaster and like me, has never been able to understand how anyone could take pleasure in the misery of others.

I was at Anfield in 1993 which happened to be the first game after the last of the '96', Tony Bland, had finally (following the agreed withdrawal of medical assistance) succumbed to his injuries after years in a coma. I was aware there would be a minute’s silence and dreaded the reaction of the United fans in the stadium that day. When the whistle was blown to mark the start of the silence, I was relieved that United appeared to be observing it with class and dignity... That is until after about 30 seconds, one mindless idiot amongst the United faithful shouted something like, ‘C’mon United’ at the top of his voice. My heart sunk as did those of many of the fans around me when we all exchanged glances which basically said, ‘there’s always one...’. Unfortunately, your fans reacted (understandably) with great offence and the minute ‘silence’ degenerated into a farce with both sets of fans trading insults. All decent United fans were disgusted at that moment and I know that the perpetrator was lambasted by those standing nearest to him. Of course, all of the United end then erupted with the chant ‘Where’s your famous Munich song’ (to my eternal shame, I sung it too) which in hindsight, was nothing less than a thinly veiled Hillsborough chant.

I attended the Wigan game at Old Trafford on Sunday and was disgusted when within 5 minutes of the game kicking off, 30 or 40 idiots in my end started chanting ‘always the victim, never your fault’ and ‘Murderers’. Later in the game and on at least 3 or 4 subsequent occasions, the chants started again but this time with many more participants (clearly audible on MOTD that night). I was unable to contain my contempt for these people and turned to a good and likeminded friend of mine with whom I attend the game and said, ‘What is it with these f***ing dick-heads?’ I was overheard by one of the people who had chanted and followed a heated exchange which could easily have got out of hand. I then completely lost interest (trust me, I'm no fighter) and left the game early and gained no satisfaction out of the result. To be honest, I was devastated because at this point in time, I’m losing affinity with many of my fellow supporters. I know they don’t represent me, but they do represent Manchester United and they disgrace the club every time they indulge their neanderthal behaviour. I have written to the club to complain – I suspect however, that nothing will be done to address it, irrespective of the fact that Fergie also wants it to stop.

I did apply for a ticket to the game at Anfield this Sunday and was really disappointed to miss out in the ballot. Now however, I am relieved because I just know that the good name of Manchester United will be tarnished again by a minority of brainless thugs who will take great pleasure in chanting about Hillsborough – It will happen, trust me. I want to say to any LFC fan who will be justifiably offended when this occurs, that not all United fans feel this way. There is a mutual hatred between LFC and United fans and that’s fine, but any decent human being can’t fail to be moved and relieved by the vindication of the 96 this week. Most of us can’t stand your club but that’s where the line is drawn. I hope that the decent United fans that attend the game next week, will do all they can to ensure that any chanting of this nature is curtailed. They owe it to the club, the Hillsborough families and in fact to decent people everywhere.

Many apologies have been received by the fans of LFC this week. I want to add mine in advance of the game on Sunday in anticipation of the mindless few, doing all they can to inflict more hurt on all those affected over the last 23 years.

May the 96 finally rest in peace and may the families get the justice they deserve.

Offline Chakan

  • Chaka Chaka.....is in love with Aristotle but only for votes. The proud owner of some very private piles and an inflatable harem! Winner of RAWK's Carabao Cup captian contest.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 91,079
  • Internet Terrorist lvl VI
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #254 on: September 19, 2012, 11:04:43 am »
Top post Chriswm34. Welcome.

Unfortunately there will always be people who take delight in the misery of others.

Offline Slick_Beef

  • RAWK's Master Baker
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,088
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #255 on: September 19, 2012, 11:19:27 am »

Offline Anfield Kopite

  • Will vote for anyone who gives out
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,886
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #256 on: September 19, 2012, 11:26:13 am »
FFair do's chriswm34. You dont have anything to apologise about. Its not your fault that some 'fans' think that team triabilism makes it ok to mock the dead.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 11:27:55 am by Anfield Kopite »

Offline the 92A

  • Alberto Incontidor. Peneus. Phantom Thread Locker. Mr Bus. But there'll be another one along soon enough. Almost as bad as Jim...
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,029
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #257 on: September 19, 2012, 12:35:52 pm »
Great post Chriswm34, Welcome mate.
Still Dreaming of a Harry Quinn

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #258 on: September 19, 2012, 12:40:23 pm »
Cheers for that Chris.  Unfortunately their are morons on both sides.

You are clearly the same generation of matchgoing fan as me - and I don't think you are alone in feeling that you no longer have anything in common with many of the people who now go to the game.
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline BlackandWhitePaul

  • Principled Newcastle fan- who gave up following his team rather than support Saudi takeover
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,506
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #259 on: September 19, 2012, 12:47:37 pm »
I'll start by saying I'm a match-going Manchester United fan (since 1974) so I understand that some of you won't want to read on any further. Like Gooner Stu, I have joined the forum so I can make a comment so please forgive the intrusion.

I won't pretend to like your club. I grew up in Southport and was surrounded by LFC fans during the halcyon days of Hansen, Lawrenson, Clemence, Souness, Dalglish et al and it wasn't pleasant watching you win everything every year. However, I have an affinity with the city of Liverpool, having lived there for a number of years (I was living in Huyton in 1989) and it also happens to be where I met my wife. Many of her family couldn't believe she was marrying a Manc and some of them wouldn't even come to the wedding. C'est la Vie...

I want to say how relieved I am to see the truth finally come out. Unlike many of my fellow United fans, I had few doubts as to where the blame lay. A home and away fan myself, I know the level of treatment fans often receive from officialdom and therefore, my first thoughts were always that you'd been blamed for something you didn't do. My wife worked with a victim of the Hillsborough Disaster and like me, has never been able to understand how anyone could take pleasure in the misery of others.

I was at Anfield in 1993 which happened to be the first game after the last of the '96', Tony Bland, had finally (following the agreed withdrawal of medical assistance) succumbed to his injuries after years in a coma. I was aware there would be a minute’s silence and dreaded the reaction of the United fans in the stadium that day. When the whistle was blown to mark the start of the silence, I was relieved that United appeared to be observing it with class and dignity... That is until after about 30 seconds, one mindless idiot amongst the United faithful shouted something like, ‘C’mon United’ at the top of his voice. My heart sunk as did those of many of the fans around me when we all exchanged glances which basically said, ‘there’s always one...’. Unfortunately, your fans reacted (understandably) with great offence and the minute ‘silence’ degenerated into a farce with both sets of fans trading insults. All decent United fans were disgusted at that moment and I know that the perpetrator was lambasted by those standing nearest to him. Of course, all of the United end then erupted with the chant ‘Where’s your famous Munich song’ (to my eternal shame, I sung it too) which in hindsight, was nothing less than a thinly veiled Hillsborough chant.

I attended the Wigan game at Old Trafford on Sunday and was disgusted when within 5 minutes of the game kicking off, 30 or 40 idiots in my end started chanting ‘always the victim, never your fault’ and ‘Murderers’. Later in the game and on at least 3 or 4 subsequent occasions, the chants started again but this time with many more participants (clearly audible on MOTD that night). I was unable to contain my contempt for these people and turned to a good and likeminded friend of mine with whom I attend the game and said, ‘What is it with these f***ing dick-heads?’ I was overheard by one of the people who had chanted and followed a heated exchange which could easily have got out of hand. I then completely lost interest (trust me, I'm no fighter) and left the game early and gained no satisfaction out of the result. To be honest, I was devastated because at this point in time, I’m losing affinity with many of my fellow supporters. I know they don’t represent me, but they do represent Manchester United and they disgrace the club every time they indulge their neanderthal behaviour. I have written to the club to complain – I suspect however, that nothing will be done to address it, irrespective of the fact that Mr Alex Ferguson also wants it to stop.

I did apply for a ticket to the game at Anfield this Sunday and was really disappointed to miss out in the ballot. Now however, I am relieved because I just know that the good name of Manchester United will be tarnished again by a minority of brainless thugs who will take great pleasure in chanting about Hillsborough – It will happen, trust me. I want to say to any LFC fan who will be justifiably offended when this occurs, that not all United fans feel this way. There is a mutual hatred between LFC and United fans and that’s fine, but any decent human being can’t fail to be moved and relieved by the vindication of the 96 this week. Most of us can’t stand your club but that’s where the line is drawn. I hope that the decent United fans that attend the game next week, will do all they can to ensure that any chanting of this nature is curtailed. They owe it to the club, the Hillsborough families and in fact to decent people everywhere.

Many apologies have been received by the fans of LFC this week. I want to add mine in advance of the game on Sunday in anticipation of the mindless few, doing all they can to inflict more hurt on all those affected over the last 23 years.

May the 96 finally rest in peace and may the families get the justice they deserve.

Hiya Chris,

That is a great post and comes straight from your heart.

You are a good and decent man and everybody can see that.

Take care, Paul (a Toon fan)   :wave

Offline uwinsa

  • prize!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 788
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #260 on: September 19, 2012, 12:49:49 pm »
I'll start by saying I'm a match-going Manchester United fan (since 1974) so I understand that some of you won't want to read on any further. Like Gooner Stu, I have joined the forum so I can make a comment so please forgive the intrusion.

I won't pretend to like your club. I grew up in Southport and was surrounded by LFC fans during the halcyon days of Hansen, Lawrenson, Clemence, Souness, Dalglish et al and it wasn't pleasant watching you win everything every year. However, I have an affinity with the city of Liverpool, having lived there for a number of years (I was living in Huyton in 1989) and it also happens to be where I met my wife. Many of her family couldn't believe she was marrying a Manc and some of them wouldn't even come to the wedding. C'est la Vie...

I want to say how relieved I am to see the truth finally come out. Unlike many of my fellow United fans, I had few doubts as to where the blame lay. A home and away fan myself, I know the level of treatment fans often receive from officialdom and therefore, my first thoughts were always that you'd been blamed for something you didn't do. My wife worked with a victim of the Hillsborough Disaster and like me, has never been able to understand how anyone could take pleasure in the misery of others.

I was at Anfield in 1993 which happened to be the first game after the last of the '96', Tony Bland, had finally (following the agreed withdrawal of medical assistance) succumbed to his injuries after years in a coma. I was aware there would be a minute’s silence and dreaded the reaction of the United fans in the stadium that day. When the whistle was blown to mark the start of the silence, I was relieved that United appeared to be observing it with class and dignity... That is until after about 30 seconds, one mindless idiot amongst the United faithful shouted something like, ‘C’mon United’ at the top of his voice. My heart sunk as did those of many of the fans around me when we all exchanged glances which basically said, ‘there’s always one...’. Unfortunately, your fans reacted (understandably) with great offence and the minute ‘silence’ degenerated into a farce with both sets of fans trading insults. All decent United fans were disgusted at that moment and I know that the perpetrator was lambasted by those standing nearest to him. Of course, all of the United end then erupted with the chant ‘Where’s your famous Munich song’ (to my eternal shame, I sung it too) which in hindsight, was nothing less than a thinly veiled Hillsborough chant.

I attended the Wigan game at Old Trafford on Sunday and was disgusted when within 5 minutes of the game kicking off, 30 or 40 idiots in my end started chanting ‘always the victim, never your fault’ and ‘Murderers’. Later in the game and on at least 3 or 4 subsequent occasions, the chants started again but this time with many more participants (clearly audible on MOTD that night). I was unable to contain my contempt for these people and turned to a good and likeminded friend of mine with whom I attend the game and said, ‘What is it with these f***ing dick-heads?’ I was overheard by one of the people who had chanted and followed a heated exchange which could easily have got out of hand. I then completely lost interest (trust me, I'm no fighter) and left the game early and gained no satisfaction out of the result. To be honest, I was devastated because at this point in time, I’m losing affinity with many of my fellow supporters. I know they don’t represent me, but they do represent Manchester United and they disgrace the club every time they indulge their neanderthal behaviour. I have written to the club to complain – I suspect however, that nothing will be done to address it, irrespective of the fact that Mr Alex Ferguson also wants it to stop.

I did apply for a ticket to the game at Anfield this Sunday and was really disappointed to miss out in the ballot. Now however, I am relieved because I just know that the good name of Manchester United will be tarnished again by a minority of brainless thugs who will take great pleasure in chanting about Hillsborough – It will happen, trust me. I want to say to any LFC fan who will be justifiably offended when this occurs, that not all United fans feel this way. There is a mutual hatred between LFC and United fans and that’s fine, but any decent human being can’t fail to be moved and relieved by the vindication of the 96 this week. Most of us can’t stand your club but that’s where the line is drawn. I hope that the decent United fans that attend the game next week, will do all they can to ensure that any chanting of this nature is curtailed. They owe it to the club, the Hillsborough families and in fact to decent people everywhere.

Many apologies have been received by the fans of LFC this week. I want to add mine in advance of the game on Sunday in anticipation of the mindless few, doing all they can to inflict more hurt on all those affected over the last 23 years.

May the 96 finally rest in peace and may the families get the justice they deserve.

Thanks for posting, much appricated.
We are all aware its a minority, unfortunatly big enough of a one to be heard. The only thing fans like you can do is to keep educating, keep making comments like you did at the game (although obviously we dont want you to get into a fight), keep making comments on utd forums etc and encourage others to do the same and eventually the message will get through to more and more

Offline redmark

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,395
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #261 on: September 19, 2012, 01:04:56 pm »
I was at Anfield in 1993 which happened to be the first game after the last of the '96', Tony Bland, had finally (following the agreed withdrawal of medical assistance) succumbed to his injuries after years in a coma. I was aware there would be a minute’s silence and dreaded the reaction of the United fans in the stadium that day. When the whistle was blown to mark the start of the silence, I was relieved that United appeared to be observing it with class and dignity... That is until after about 30 seconds, one mindless idiot amongst the United faithful shouted something like, ‘C’mon United’ at the top of his voice. My heart sunk as did those of many of the fans around me when we all exchanged glances which basically said, ‘there’s always one...’. Unfortunately, your fans reacted (understandably) with great offence and the minute ‘silence’ degenerated into a farce with both sets of fans trading insults. All decent United fans were disgusted at that moment and I know that the perpetrator was lambasted by those standing nearest to him. Of course, all of the United end then erupted with the chant ‘Where’s your famous Munich song’ (to my eternal shame, I sung it too) which in hindsight, was nothing less than a thinly veiled Hillsborough chant.

I did apply for a ticket to the game at Anfield this Sunday and was really disappointed to miss out in the ballot. Now however, I am relieved because I just know that the good name of Manchester United will be tarnished again by a minority of brainless thugs who will take great pleasure in chanting about Hillsborough – It will happen, trust me. I want to say to any LFC fan who will be justifiably offended when this occurs, that not all United fans feel this way. There is a mutual hatred between LFC and United fans and that’s fine, but any decent human being can’t fail to be moved and relieved by the vindication of the 96 this week. Most of us can’t stand your club but that’s where the line is drawn. I hope that the decent United fans that attend the game next week, will do all they can to ensure that any chanting of this nature is curtailed. They owe it to the club, the Hillsborough families and in fact to decent people everywhere.

Many apologies have been received by the fans of LFC this week. I want to add mine in advance of the game on Sunday in anticipation of the mindless few, doing all they can to inflict more hurt on all those affected over the last 23 years.

May the 96 finally rest in peace and may the families get the justice they deserve.


Welcome. I've been thinking about 6th March 1993 a lot in the last couple of days. As I remember, the Kop held it's silence (after a couple of rapidly hushed murmurs) after the outburst, but the end of the minute's silence was the angriest I have ever seen a crowd of people - and I think the angriest I've ever been. The chanting that followed it seemed to last for 5-10 minutes; initially 'scum', but I then vaguely recollect being dismayed to hear a Munich chant in response.

I remember seeing Man United scarves, and messages, outside Anfield on 16th April 1989. I think the atmosphere between the clubs improved somewhat after that; I don't recall certain chants at Anfield, from either side, from then until 1993, at least (only once attended United vs Liverpool at OT - and that as a very quiet kid on the Stretford End!). I think the events of March 93 marked a downturn in relations and a return to a level of nastiness, that has continued in chants if not physical violence, seen in the early 80s.

I hope Sunday goes well, for many reasons. Amongst them, a return to a football rivalry that doesn't need songs about death, from either side.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 01:06:35 pm by redmark »
Stop whining : https://spiritofshankly.com/ : https://thefsa.org.uk/join/ : https://reclaimourgame.com/
The focus now should not be on who the owners are, but limits on what owners can do without formal supporter agreement. At all clubs.

Offline Big Red Richie

  • Thread killer extraordinaire. For future reference the order is T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,535
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #262 on: September 19, 2012, 01:43:51 pm »
@ Chriswm34.

First of all Chris, welcome, and thank you for your honesty.

I'm not being critical to any of the fans of other clubs who've either posted on here, or otherwise may be looking in and havent's registered or posted.  Your input on this LFC forum is more than welcome, and can only be applauded, but I've found some of the recent support from some quarters, a little sycophantic.

I have no problems with fans from other clubs if they don't particularly like us.  I'm sure most Liverpool fans would agree with me when I say, all we really ask for is a little bit of respect, and some understanding.

To understand where we are coming from, and the long battle we've had to vindicate all of us that have been denigrated - both alive, and unfortunately not.


You don't have to love us, we just ask you to understand us,  our grievances and why after all of these years, it's still an open wound.

Offline MichaelA

  • MasterBaker, honey-trapper and 'concerned neighbour'. Beyond The Pale. Vermin on the ridiculous. Would love to leave Ashley Cole gasping for air. Dupe Snoop Extraordinaire. RAWK MARTYR #1. The proud owner of a new lower case a. Mickey Two Sheds.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 29,365
  • At the Academy
  • Super Title: MichaelA
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #263 on: September 19, 2012, 01:47:17 pm »
I won't pretend to like your club.

I won't pretend to like yours either, but that's a really good post, and you'll find many of us on here have had similar experiences with our own supporters when it comes to Munich. I've had a couple of away trips ruined by the gobshites that still come out with this poison, despite everything that LFC have been through in the last 23 years. It's easy to despair, but at least you've addressed your concerns to your club and had the balls to say something when you heard it last week. To my shame I've always kept my head down and walked away.

I want Man Utd relegated, I want Man Utd humiliated, and I want to see your team stuffed every week - so do most Reds. But that's not a licence to behave like an amoral animal. The best hope for both sets of supporters is that going forward the minority will feel less secure when they open up the sewer under their own nose. You've said that 'there is a mutual hatred, and that's fine' but really it's allowing 'hatred' to be normalised that allows the idiot minority to flourish.

Offline uwinsa

  • prize!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 788
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #264 on: September 19, 2012, 01:57:51 pm »



Chris, just out of curiosity do you understand the victims chant to be about hillsborough? contrary to what others have tried to claim

Offline conman

  • Ohh aaaah just a little bit, Ooh aahh, a little bit more. Aerial stalker perv. Not cool enough to get the lolz.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 27,498
    • Cocopoppyhead
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #265 on: September 19, 2012, 02:32:14 pm »
I have written to the club to complain – I suspect however, that nothing will be done to address it, irrespective of the fact that Mr Alex Ferguson also wants it to stop.

Great opening post from the heart Chris, and welcome to Rawk.

I singled out one aspect of your post, and i don't want to come across as being condescending or anything here.
It's about your view that your club will not do anything about your letter. One think I love about Rawk, is the education that fans here receive, keeping alive the traditions which the elder fans have upheld for donkeys years. If these guys (and match lifelong fans) weren't so keen on maintaining respect & decorum, then I fear this situation would be much much worse.

I humbly suggest a better approach for those many fans who do have respect would be to negotiate with MUST & RefCafe, fan sites & groups like this and try to stub it out. Maybe some ex players can help the efforts, who knows? From what I have been hearing & reading from various other Man UTD fans, is that many sites such as RefCafe promote the hatred & bile. "You're not a fan unless you hate Liverpool (And all that comes with it)". This stuff wont stop in the stadium if it is being promoted as the UTD way elsewhere.  I'm all for fans not seeing eye to eye, and all that. However, from either side there should never be a need to disrespect the perished, the suffering or troubled.

Once again, it was an honest and welcomed post you wrote.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #266 on: September 19, 2012, 02:32:30 pm »
Chris, just out of curiosity do you understand the victims chant to be about hillsborough? contrary to what others have tried to claim

I think it is clear from his post and his reaction to it at the ground that he knows damn well what it is about.  As do MUST, who need to get their heads out of their collective arses and show some leadership.  Their response was as poor as the initial SoS response to the idiots at their end of season do.
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline Chriswm34

  • Boys Pen
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #267 on: September 19, 2012, 02:51:07 pm »
Thank you so much for your welcome.

Some great points raised in response to my post:

Firstly, MUST (Manchester United Supporters Trust) do not under any circumstances represent me with their comments this week. Yes the 'always a victim...' chant became more popular post Suarez/Evra, but be aware, every fan (I use that term loosely) who sung that song on Saturday afternoon, was referencing Hillsborough. MUST know it, the club knows it, REAL United fans know it and the dick-heads that sung it knew it. That song may be aimed ay Suarez at certain times but it IS a Hillsborough song and I will never ever sing it. Don't have anyone tell you otherwise.

Any United fan with an understanding of the Club's history will appreciate how tragedy can obliterate the hopes and dreams of a community. Those who were alive in 1958 (I wasn't) and those who truly understand the significance of February 6th, would NEVER sing songs about Hillsborough or any other tragedy. One of you stated that you are aware it is the miniority and thankfully it is, but it remains a sizeable minority. A minority of hundreds and sometimes thousands of these people spout this bile and they are lesser human beings because of it.

I note the Evertonians on the forum. I have to admit to a huge soft-spot for the Club. This stems from the game after Busby died when (due to a technical balls-up) they observed almost 4 minutes of complete silence. They won an award for that. Likewise, Monday night at Goodison, their Hillsborough tribute was heartfelt and classy. I was watching wishing United could be relied upon to do something like that. 95% of the fans that turn up on Sunday will be desperate to do Manchester United proud. Unfortunately, like with my trouble at the weekend, most of the time you raise a voice in defiance of such behviour, the pond-life that are singing such disgraceful bile can be very aggressive in defending their right to do so. We just need more people to be prepared to take a stand against these degenerates and the game will be much healthier place to be. I take my son to a few United games every season, he's 10 and loves football. I send most of the journey home not discussing the excitement of the game but more the background behind some of the disgraceful things he's heard. He knows his mum is a scouser and feels very upset by what he hears.

MichaelA - Yes, I'd probbly not shed too many tears if LFC were relegated either... The thing is, most of my pals are Liverpool fans - we agree to never talk on a United v LFC Match Day. The last time I went to Anfield, I walked down the street with a United scarf proudly hung over a United top from 1986 which admittedly is a little tight fitting on me now. The thing is, I got some funny looks, but at no stage was I threatened. I had a few people ask me if I was wearing it for a bet and a lovely old guy told me I should borrow his coat until I got to the gate. Funny what you remember...

Offline The 5th Benitle

  • Mitch Fenner and Gerry Francis' biggest fan. Karaoke James - The Sausagefest Superhero. A soldier not a Capo di tutti capi. Clapham Stalker. RAWK X Factor Winner 2011. The poor man's Sarge!
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 45,307
  • Read, then post...
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #268 on: September 19, 2012, 03:04:28 pm »

Firstly, MUST (Manchester United Supporters Trust) do not under any circumstances represent me with their comments this week. Yes the 'always a victim...' chant became more popular post Suarez/Evra, but be aware, every fan (I use that term loosely) who sung that song on Saturday afternoon, was referencing Hillsborough. MUST know it, the club knows it, REAL United fans know it and the dick-heads that sung it knew it. That song may be aimed ay Suarez at certain times but it IS a Hillsborough song and I will never ever sing it. Don't have anyone tell you otherwise.
Bang on, and very well said. Wish that frightful Annie Eaves character would admit it too.

Offline uwinsa

  • prize!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 788
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #269 on: September 19, 2012, 08:04:10 pm »
I think it is clear from his post and his reaction to it at the ground that he knows damn well what it is about.  As do MUST, who need to get their heads out of their collective arses and show some leadership.  Their response was as poor as the initial SoS response to the idiots at their end of season do.

Sorry I was only asking a question, didnt mean to annoy anyone

Offline Strictlydown19

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #270 on: September 19, 2012, 08:21:50 pm »
We are talking about a sporting pursuit here, correct? I hear this word passion bandied around very casually these days, however, I've also seen the tangible results of misguided passion in Belfast, Baghdad and Bosnia. Perspective. Let's just keep a sense of perspective. When unbridled fanaticism gains the upper hand it nurtures truly corrosive hatred. This rivalry will always exist but these caustic references to the dead on both sides is cowardly and indefensible. Let's hope the decent people hold sway this weekend. Keep thinking!

Offline Koplass

  • As anti-social as you could want
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,241
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #271 on: September 19, 2012, 10:18:30 pm »
It seems like fate that the first game at Anfield after the documents were released would be against Man United. I expect a minority of United fans will try to wind our fans up, just as a minority of Liverpool fans would do the same if circumstances were reversed. There are idiots everywhere, we can only hope that they're over-shadowed by everyone else's respect and humility.
"If ever a club reflected what made football the biggest sport in the country, it was Liverpool with its ground set in the bosom of the labouring working class being led by a man-of-the-people idealist in Bill Shankly."

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #272 on: September 19, 2012, 11:54:33 pm »
Sorry I was only asking a question, didnt mean to annoy anyone

I don't believe you have annoyed anyone. The annoyance in my post is aimed at MUST who have abdicated responsibility when they should have taken a lead. Weasel words from them on what the song is about too.

I think there must be a lot of Utd fans who like Chris feel let down by their recent statements.
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline Chriswm34

  • Boys Pen
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #273 on: September 20, 2012, 08:54:23 am »

I think there must be a lot of Utd fans who like Chris feel let down by their recent statements.

Trust me there are many United fans who feel very let down by MUST - anyone defending their statement was probably singing the song...

Offline pewithree3

  • Has a grumpy old female arse.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,324
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #274 on: September 20, 2012, 09:04:05 am »
To owlsfan, someone I know was crushed that day but survived,
family went up to Sheffield hospital on the train.
They got a taxi to the hospital and the taxi driver gave them a
card with his phone number on. Told them to phone him any
time of day or night, not a problem and never charged them.

Offline Durlmints

  • Kicks Ass. Categorically denies being the now infamous antihero 'Chris from Wavertree'. Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. Who knows? Henry the Mild Mannered Janitor? COULD BEEEE!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,336
  • Mané & Salah, your defence is terrified!
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #275 on: September 20, 2012, 11:34:54 am »
It seems like fate that the first game at Anfield after the documents were released would be against Man United. I expect a minority of United fans will try to wind our fans up, just as a minority of Liverpool fans would do the same if circumstances were reversed. There are idiots everywhere, we can only hope that they're over-shadowed by everyone else's respect and humility.

It's ridiculous isn't it? We always seem to play United at the worst times. I fully expect to hear certain chants, but I hope so much that they just leave it. I hope our support drowns them out either way - and I fully expect that too.
Crows attacked a pensioner in Hamburg after she mimicked a crow's call.
You claim a Wagon Wheel is a biscuit and you have the audacity to stick a Kit Kat in goal? You sir are a du

Offline Desi Kopite

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 494
  • Twitter: @pritsinghlfc
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #276 on: September 20, 2012, 11:42:59 am »
There have been some fab posts in this thread, and it's great to see the support from other club's fans, been incredible really.

I agree with the above comment about chants on Sunday, we'd be stupid to think that the game would pass without incident. I just hope our fans don't react to the insults with the Munich chants etc, hopefully we'll rise above it.

I know this has been mentioned before and some of our fans may not like this, but would be good to see a Hillsborough banner alongside one for Munich, that would forever show our class to the world!

Offline fredfrop

  • 19*
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,751
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #277 on: September 20, 2012, 01:05:53 pm »
This is probably not the right thread to mention this on, but it does affect the fans of another club.  While without in anyway comparing the two incidents, it would be good if the club remembered the two police women who were murdered in Manchester this week.

It might help calm down the more rabid fans of our next league opponents if we showed some respect to "their" loss.
* * * * *

Offline Pistolero

  • BELIEVE. My bad. This. Lol. Bless. Meh. Wow just wow. Hate on. The Ev. Phil.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,838
  • A serpent's tooth...
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #278 on: September 20, 2012, 01:39:32 pm »
Celtic once again showing their class last night

Cheers Bhoys

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2012/09/20/100252-31874586/?
They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

Offline Koplass

  • As anti-social as you could want
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,241
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #279 on: September 20, 2012, 09:26:11 pm »
Celtic once again showing their class last night

Cheers Bhoys

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2012/09/20/100252-31874586/?

Celtic, alongside Everton, have always been class about Hillsborough. Utter class.
"If ever a club reflected what made football the biggest sport in the country, it was Liverpool with its ground set in the bosom of the labouring working class being led by a man-of-the-people idealist in Bill Shankly."