Topic: Are we willing to be patient?

[shelovesyou]

God knows what this place will be like if we fail to get a result against Wolves.

[Zlen]

God knows what this place will be like if we fail to get a result against Wolves.

There's a Wolves game from last year if you want to remind yourself.

[shelovesyou]

There's a Wolves game from last year if you want to remind yourself.

Ha, I'll pass thanks.

[Vulmea]

I think anyone looking in here, seeing the highs and lows and how people flip flop from result to result and from performance to performance, would think this is a site for bipolar disease sufferers.

think people have forgotten how to moan to be honest

dont see how anyone could think the game sunday was anything but a train wreck but its the conclusions which people draw - the end of the world scenario's, the this player is crap, will always be crap, was always crap type bollocks, the manager doesn't know what he's doing and the fans have been patient enough after 5 minutes

in a culture were everything has to be now now now I guess its to be expected, with a media that makes everything black and white, boils everything down to the lowest common, ill conceived, superficial headline grabbing nonsense - then basically people are being groomed to be intolerant, badly educated and to react exactly how the media want them to

throw in the thatcher years how society is dead , long live the individual and their pursuit of money - loyalty is replaced by bank balance and long term planning by expediency, service by profit, everything is about me

if you want something enough - you dont earn it - you get it on your credit card and then moan that its out of date and default on your payments - we need a mega rich owner to throw billions at it and we need them yesterday

throw in the internet where everybody has a right to express their badly informed opinion and its just a surprise that there's any sanity at all - we should all be lurching from one media driven frenzy to the next without any thought whatsoever - in fact we should all be City or United fans by now and Manchester should have been named football capital of the world forever - the top teams should win every game 6 - 0 and have squads of 44 with 4 top players for every position whilst the rest get by with  a bare 11

Patience - lifes not long enough for patience any more

[tackleberry11]

think people have forgotten how to moan to be honest

dont see how anyone could think the game sunday was anything but a train wreck but its the conclusions which people draw - the end of the world scenario's, the this player is crap, will always be crap, was always crap type bollocks, the manager doesn't know what he's doing and the fans have been patient enough after 5 minutes

in a culture were everything has to be now now now I guess its to be expected, with a media that makes everything black and white, boils everything down to the lowest common, ill conceived, superficial headline grabbing nonsense - then basically people are being groomed to be intolerant, badly educated and to react exactly how the media want them to

throw in the thatcher years how society is dead , long live the individual and their pursuit of money - loyalty is replaced by bank balance and long term planning by expediency, service by profit, everything is about me

if you want something enough - you dont earn it - you get it on your credit card and then moan that its out of date and default on your payments - we need a mega rich owner to throw billions at it and we need them yesterday

throw in the internet where everybody has a right to express their badly informed opinion and its just a surprise that there's any sanity at all - we should all be lurching from one media driven frenzy to the next without any thought whatsoever - in fact we should all be City or United fans by now and Manchester should have been named football capital of the world forever - the top teams should win every game 6 - 0 and have squads of 44 with 4 top players for every position whilst the rest get by with  a bare 11

Patience - lifes not long enough for patience any more

this is spot on 

[klutch]

think people have forgotten how to moan to be honest

dont see how anyone could think the game sunday was anything but a train wreck but its the conclusions which people draw - the end of the world scenario's, the this player is crap, will always be crap, was always crap type bollocks, the manager doesn't know what he's doing and the fans have been patient enough after 5 minutes

in a culture were everything has to be now now now I guess its to be expected, with a media that makes everything black and white, boils everything down to the lowest common, ill conceived, superficial headline grabbing nonsense - then basically people are being groomed to be intolerant, badly educated and to react exactly how the media want them to

throw in the thatcher years how society is dead , long live the individual and their pursuit of money - loyalty is replaced by bank balance and long term planning by expediency, service by profit, everything is about me

if you want something enough - you dont earn it - you get it on your credit card and then moan that its out of date and default on your payments - we need a mega rich owner to throw billions at it and we need them yesterday

throw in the internet where everybody has a right to express their badly informed opinion and its just a surprise that there's any sanity at all - we should all be lurching from one media driven frenzy to the next without any thought whatsoever - in fact we should all be City or United fans by now and Manchester should have been named football capital of the world forever - the top teams should win every game 6 - 0 and have squads of 44 with 4 top players for every position whilst the rest get by with  a bare 11

Patience - lifes not long enough for patience any more

I have to say that this is the best post on RAWK and not because it highlights what's wrong in football, but because it highlights what's wrong with society as a whole. I will now go back to being a lurker again. 

[Wilmo]

think people have forgotten how to moan to be honest

dont see how anyone could think the game sunday was anything but a train wreck but its the conclusions which people draw - the end of the world scenario's, the this player is crap, will always be crap, was always crap type bollocks, the manager doesn't know what he's doing and the fans have been patient enough after 5 minutes

in a culture were everything has to be now now now I guess its to be expected, with a media that makes everything black and white, boils everything down to the lowest common, ill conceived, superficial headline grabbing nonsense - then basically people are being groomed to be intolerant, badly educated and to react exactly how the media want them to

throw in the thatcher years how society is dead , long live the individual and their pursuit of money - loyalty is replaced by bank balance and long term planning by expediency, service by profit, everything is about me

if you want something enough - you dont earn it - you get it on your credit card and then moan that its out of date and default on your payments - we need a mega rich owner to throw billions at it and we need them yesterday

throw in the internet where everybody has a right to express their badly informed opinion and its just a surprise that there's any sanity at all - we should all be lurching from one media driven frenzy to the next without any thought whatsoever - in fact we should all be City or United fans by now and Manchester should have been named football capital of the world forever - the top teams should win every game 6 - 0 and have squads of 44 with 4 top players for every position whilst the rest get by with  a bare 11

Patience - lifes not long enough for patience any more

This is amazing.

[Chong]

Put it into perspective lads, we gave United a 4-1 humping a few years back, at the toilet and the final goal was scored by the trail blazing left back Andrea Dossena, who lobbed Van der Sar from 18 yards.  Imagine being on the receiving end of that.  The top teams have these days and as long as it doesn't start to happen on a regular basis, we move on.   

spot on

[snowlion]

Good post.

I have to say that this is the first game this season that, in my opinion, that we deserved to lose.  I fully believe that we could very easily be sitting at 12 points from 15 instead of the current 7.  While points are important, we had been playing well.  This gives me confidence that we will get back on form.  The dramatic change since Kenny's appointment (not to mention his history) should have earned trust in every fan's view.

[Another Red]

think people have forgotten how to moan to be honest

dont see how anyone could think the game sunday was anything but a train wreck but its the conclusions which people draw - the end of the world scenario's, the this player is crap, will always be crap, was always crap type bollocks, the manager doesn't know what he's doing and the fans have been patient enough after 5 minutes

in a culture were everything has to be now now now I guess its to be expected, with a media that makes everything black and white, boils everything down to the lowest common, ill conceived, superficial headline grabbing nonsense - then basically people are being groomed to be intolerant, badly educated and to react exactly how the media want them to

throw in the thatcher years how society is dead , long live the individual and their pursuit of money - loyalty is replaced by bank balance and long term planning by expediency, service by profit, everything is about me

if you want something enough - you dont earn it - you get it on your credit card and then moan that its out of date and default on your payments - we need a mega rich owner to throw billions at it and we need them yesterday

throw in the internet where everybody has a right to express their badly informed opinion and its just a surprise that there's any sanity at all - we should all be lurching from one media driven frenzy to the next without any thought whatsoever - in fact we should all be City or United fans by now and Manchester should have been named football capital of the world forever - the top teams should win every game 6 - 0 and have squads of 44 with 4 top players for every position whilst the rest get by with  a bare 11

Patience - lifes not long enough for patience any more

Just stunning mate. Everyone on RAWK should read this post.

[skooma]

Nothing else to do for now but be patient.

They're out of Europe and don't look like title contenders at all. Time to bring the expectations back to reality and enjoy when they play well.

[hesbighesred]

Comparing Kenny to Hogdon is a bit of a cheap shot but we know you think Benitez is the only manager to understand tactics despite us reguarly getting schooled by inferior managers under him, but at least you'll give Kenny the chance to learn from it

Anyway, let me get this straight, Redknapp "doesn't really do tactics" despite the fact that he'd clearly worked on a excellent gameplan to shut down our midfield? Is that not a tactic then?

Seems to be just a lazy comment based on image and nationality

Spurs played the same way they do every week, picked the same players they usually would. There wasn't a single surprise in the Spurs line-up or the way they played. We played right into their hands with our tactics and selections, and we also did that a couple of times under Hodgson.

It wasn't meant as a cheap shot, just a worrying point. As I said we've already seen more than enough to know there's massive positives in what Kenny's brought to the team already, but you can't blame people for asking questions and making comparisons after a thumping like that - a thumping that the performance absolutely deserved.

[Dagger/Molby]

Nothing else to do for now but be patient.

They're out of Europe and don't look like title contenders at all. Time to bring the expectations back to reality and enjoy when they play well.

Agree - we will get back on track. We have to remember that we has made a lot of changes the past 9 months - Adam, Henderson, Downing, Enrique, Suarez and Carroll! The boys need some time to be a team - i am confident that when we reach that point LFC will be awesome again  We just need to be patient and NEVER let the boys walk alone!!!

[hesbighesred]

I think a lot of the criticism results from frustration and some of it is blown way out of proportion by people saying people are having a go at Kenny/his signings.

Watching the game on Sunday was really like a kick in the nuts right after chatting up one of the fittest birds in the bar and succeeding. I was looking forward to the game, as I think the club is moving in the right direction (that means Kenny is the right man, we have made good signings during the summer, our squad looks good and we've played some impressive football already this season). Then to be torn to shreds like that by Spurs was just so unexpected. I never thought it was going to be an easy game, but I didn't expect a display like that (even before the sending offs). And I think some of the overreaction after the game (like "No top 4 again", "Spurs are miles ahead" or whatever) is due to the fact that many people felt the same way.

On the other hand, this is the internet and we're discussing formations, players and whatnot on a daily basis. So, why is it that suddenly it is a deadly sin asking questions or simply hinting at stuff that happened on Sunday that was baffling? I haven't seen many people calling for Kenny's head or seriously questioning everything that is going on at the club. However, I've seen people asking questions that seem to be valid. Why was Carroll playing on the left? Is it time we try something new in defence, if including Carra "forces" the team to be playing too deep? Should Kuyt have started? Should Henderson have been given a rest?

The only thing that was baffling for me was Carroll playing on the left and getting the ball on the wing, when he probably should be then first player to be in the penalty area when we're taking the ball towards the opposition's goal. There might be reasons for that, but I don't understand it. Especially, as it has happened before in other games where we had 11 players on the pitch and Carroll still was forced onto the wing playing in a way he can't. However, that doesn't mean I think Kenny should go or he has made a huge blunder or isn't the right man. I'm simply asking a question on an internet-forum where (as I've already said) tactics, player-selection, etc. is discussed on a regular basis without it being "Internet warriors targetting Dalglish".

That said, I am willing to be patient. This is still very much work in progress. We have signed new players and sold other ones. Kenny is the right man for the job and I think all the players offer something that will bring the club forward. Now, it's about getting them to play as a team and that takes time. We've seen last season what it can look like, when it happens...

That about sums it up for me.

[Torpedo Tommy]

Isn't that just the point though? Those late 'lucky' winners had all the hallmarks of a title-challenging team - not giving up, fighting to win from behind. I hope the staff and players aren't hiding behind the kind of excuses that are being put forward on here.

Nobody mentioned luck.  We ground out those wins in 2008-09.  It was part of our capability due to 4 years work put in by Rafa.  It is the hallmark of a good team as you quite rightly put it and credit to what Rafa had achieved.

But whilst you refer to luck.  Point me to one instance of luck that we have had this season.  Suarez's eyebrows were off side against Arsenal and the deflection was furtuitious but, go on, name me more instances of good luck that we have had?  I'll save you the energy in watching any games because there aren't any instances.  I won't derail the thread onto a rant about shite/bent refereeing but can you answer these honestly?

Sunderland H

1) Suarez winning a penalty in a clear goal scoring instance but the opposition player failing to be given the red - is that lucky?
2) Andy Carroll being penalised for brushing Anton Ferdinand's shirt when he score a perfectly legitimate goal - lucky?

Bolton H

3) Suarez being ankle tapped by Zat Knight when through on goal.  Should have been a pen and possible a red card.  We were awarded nothing.  Not lucky in my opinion
4) Jasskaliainen handling a blatant pass back - no indirect free kick given
5) A close call on the hand ball by Bolton's right back when he chipped past him into the penalty area.  Video replays show he was a gnat's cock out of the area but from the refs angle there is no way he could be sure.  Unlucky? probably not.  Lucky? Definately not

Stoke A

6) Skrtel being tackled in the area after he'd shot - no penalty awarded.  Lucky?
7) Handball by Delap in the area - no penalty awarded.  Again lucky?
Walters pulling Carragher back then backing in before going down like a knackered lift.  Ok, there is contact so may be its a harsh pen.  Lucky - nope
9) Suarez playing the ball across the area and having it bundled out by the centre half's hand.  Would be harsh to give a pen but in no way lucky

Spurs A

10) Irrespective of how stupid his second challenge was for the second yellow.  Was the first a very harsh yellow?  I think so - in no way lucky
11) Ditto Martin Skrtel's challenge
12) Carroll was pulled down in the area.  See point 8.  If point 8 is a penalty then so is this.

Someone mentioned a disallowed goal at the Emirates.  Think Downing put it into the net?  I'd had too many cerveza's in Spain and don't recall it.  But ignoring this one, whilst we have not done ourselves justice in all the games over 90 minutes (Spurs away especially) we have had key decisions go against us at key times and certainly haven't had the luck of the bounce.  It's obvious all the above would not bounce for us but surely its only normal to expect a little more?  12 bouts of bad luck versus 2 bouts of good luck (the two were part of the same goal!) - lucky?

The Spurs game was poor but at 1-0 is the game over?  No, of course it isn't.  We might have gone on to lose 4-0 with 11 men irrespectively, but we might have clicked in the second half and gone on to have won after beeing laced for the majority of the game - after all, this has happened twice in the last three visits to Spurs in their advantage.

We have been largely unlucky.  These aren't excuses - these are reasons.  True we might not have gone on to win 4 out of 5 if all those had rolled for us but that is something that is not in control of Liverpool football club.

So yes, bury your head in the sand, pretend they are excuses and not reasons. Ignore the fact that the team needs time to gel.  Forget that we have already played 3 games away from home to teams that will most likely finish top half. But whichever way, show a little patience. 

This is not aimed at you - it's aimed at everyone who needs SLY Sports to explain things to them to understand it. Those who can't draw their owb conclusion form watching a game themselves

[Bondred]

If you look at KK's career you will see that he has results like this where the team just does not turn up, I can't explain it, but it has happened at every club he has been at, it even happened last season.

[Torpedo Tommy]

Patients is a virtue, or so they say. So I'd be more inclined to ask where has our virtue gone. Tiz only 5 games in, has Sky duped us all again once more and has us living and dying by a single game. We take each game as it comes(quite rightly) but lets not react like each game is a barometer for the season.

Certainly has!

[Torpedo Tommy]

The problem is perception. If you believe that we will challenge for the title then I'd like to see a better display. However if you think we'll be challenging for 4th then maybe let's wait and see. If you think we will finish 6th to 8th then we're already there.

I'd have patience if I knew what the plan was but I'm not sure where we are heading. I think we've improved but I don't think we're better than we were when we finished 2nd........I think we'll oscillate between 6th and 2nd with hopefully no lower than 4th for the vast majority of seasons.

 

So you think we'll finish 4th?

[AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful]

Been patient for the last 21 years, so may as well keep going.

[has gone odd]

i dont think a majority of the whine (myself included to be honest) after sundays game is a result at the lack of patience. watching the games so far this season we have wobbled between sublime and ridiculous which is a little unnerving. ultimately it does appear we have been a touch unlucky and we are certain to be fired up from sundays game.

the reason people start to rant and rave is because they are passionate about the club, some go over the top but we all want the same thing, success.

this year we cannot afford to go back, we have spent big bucks and rebuilt the team. we have to improve this year and really we cant keep blaming referees, fitness, owners or excuse no.875 anymore. the players have to step up and be counted by producing the goods.

remember, we went out our way and purchased 'british based/proven premiership players', therefore they should not require an age to settle down and find their feet.

[Phatz]

think people have forgotten how to moan to be honest

dont see how anyone could think the game sunday was anything but a train wreck but its the conclusions which people draw - the end of the world scenario's, the this player is crap, will always be crap, was always crap type bollocks, the manager doesn't know what he's doing and the fans have been patient enough after 5 minutes

in a culture were everything has to be now now now I guess its to be expected, with a media that makes everything black and white, boils everything down to the lowest common, ill conceived, superficial headline grabbing nonsense - then basically people are being groomed to be intolerant, badly educated and to react exactly how the media want them to

throw in the thatcher years how society is dead , long live the individual and their pursuit of money - loyalty is replaced by bank balance and long term planning by expediency, service by profit, everything is about me

if you want something enough - you dont earn it - you get it on your credit card and then moan that its out of date and default on your payments - we need a mega rich owner to throw billions at it and we need them yesterday

throw in the internet where everybody has a right to express their badly informed opinion and its just a surprise that there's any sanity at all - we should all be lurching from one media driven frenzy to the next without any thought whatsoever - in fact we should all be City or United fans by now and Manchester should have been named football capital of the world forever - the top teams should win every game 6 - 0 and have squads of 44 with 4 top players for every position whilst the rest get by with  a bare 11

Patience - lifes not long enough for patience any more

Freakin' ace. Proper boss.

[-RedTilDead-]

Must say I like the idea of blaming Thatcher for our lack of patience.   

[GBF]

It all depends how much time waiting is called being patient.  These days football is a business where a lot of money is put in.  It is not the 70s/80s/early 90s where managers stay in their job for years no matter what is the performance and the clubs are owned by a rich supporter who isnt much fussed about getting his returns within x amount of years because banks couldnt care less then.  Supporters at that time had black & white tvs showing MOTD replays with one or two cameras covering a pitch or pays almost nothing (with today's comparison) to go see their teams play.

Nowadays, it is a whole lot different world and the way football is running and playing, so has expectation level.  Squads are bigger, money is bigger, tickets are massively expensive, TV shows replays in 3D with multiple views, amongst others.  So, are we (the general "we") willing to be patience, yes but not as much as before.  The stake is now higher

[Dmode101]

its the way we pass and move.
its the way we set out to attack and defend as a unit.
its the way we never play negative 2 defensive midfield soak and wait for mistakes.
its the way we keep attacking with numbers even if we scored 3 goals or loosing by 4.
its the way we never counter attack for counter attack sake cos we happened to have a pacey midget/c*ntish striker to accomodate who now happens to be at either devils toilet or the plastic flag club.

its the way.

always has been from the old glory days. thats how liverpool do it. thats how i like it. If you all so called fans lack patience perhaps you have mistaken to support a club for another manager in the past. Because, kenny is the dream manager for the rightful fan of this club. the rest are pretenders and their records speak for themselves. Only into the 5th game of the season and knives are out with stupid questions? The f**king nerve. Perhaps you should question what kind of football you would like to see as a fan.

you want all out fake gungho attacking football via unabashed corrupt referee aided play - man utd
you want dodgy owners spending stupid money with I want it now stupid fans - man city, chelsea
you want all pace with no defensive nous type of team setup with questionable owners not spending enough and keep selling their top players - arsenal.

To me kenny's appointment is like listening and strumming to guns and roses Patience. We rock, and we roll together. because thats how I want my football to be played.

[sattapaartridge]

Put it this way, anyone wanting Kenny out after 5 games is a cretin.

We'll get better and better this season, this loss would have hurt a lot of the players and they should be galvanising to get better results.

Still early days. Lets see at the end of the season.

[MassDriver]

I am not really that concerned about our recent results. Just the start of the season and a long way to go. And we haven't even played badly other than the SPuds game which was unfortunate. We could have given them a game with 11 men on the pitch but alas , the ref had to fuck it up(with some help from our players) for us again.

I'd be worried if we were , say 10th or something after 20 odd games in the season playing shite football. Not now.

[RedinExile]

But is anyone actually calling for anyone's head like?

[MassDriver]

But is anyone actually calling for anyone's head like?

You should have seen the Adam , Skrtel and Carrol threads after the game. It was beyond pathetic.  Pure reactionary shite.  Some were even calling for Rafa to take over from Kenny. Utterly disrespectful to Kenny.

[Eeyore]

think people have forgotten how to moan to be honest

dont see how anyone could think the game sunday was anything but a train wreck but its the conclusions which people draw - the end of the world scenario's, the this player is crap, will always be crap, was always crap type bollocks, the manager doesn't know what he's doing and the fans have been patient enough after 5 minutes

in a culture were everything has to be now now now I guess its to be expected, with a media that makes everything black and white, boils everything down to the lowest common, ill conceived, superficial headline grabbing nonsense - then basically people are being groomed to be intolerant, badly educated and to react exactly how the media want them to

throw in the thatcher years how society is dead , long live the individual and their pursuit of money - loyalty is replaced by bank balance and long term planning by expediency, service by profit, everything is about me

if you want something enough - you dont earn it - you get it on your credit card and then moan that its out of date and default on your payments - we need a mega rich owner to throw billions at it and we need them yesterday

throw in the internet where everybody has a right to express their badly informed opinion and its just a surprise that there's any sanity at all - we should all be lurching from one media driven frenzy to the next without any thought whatsoever - in fact we should all be City or United fans by now and Manchester should have been named football capital of the world forever - the top teams should win every game 6 - 0 and have squads of 44 with 4 top players for every position whilst the rest get by with  a bare 11

Patience - lifes not long enough for patience any more

Great post mate, that sums up the Simon Cowell X factor society we live in perfectly.

[Aarhus]

think people have forgotten how to moan to be honest

dont see how anyone could think the game sunday was anything but a train wreck but its the conclusions which people draw - the end of the world scenario's, the this player is crap, will always be crap, was always crap type bollocks, the manager doesn't know what he's doing and the fans have been patient enough after 5 minutes

in a culture were everything has to be now now now I guess its to be expected, with a media that makes everything black and white, boils everything down to the lowest common, ill conceived, superficial headline grabbing nonsense - then basically people are being groomed to be intolerant, badly educated and to react exactly how the media want them to

throw in the thatcher years how society is dead , long live the individual and their pursuit of money - loyalty is replaced by bank balance and long term planning by expediency, service by profit, everything is about me

if you want something enough - you dont earn it - you get it on your credit card and then moan that its out of date and default on your payments - we need a mega rich owner to throw billions at it and we need them yesterday

throw in the internet where everybody has a right to express their badly informed opinion and its just a surprise that there's any sanity at all - we should all be lurching from one media driven frenzy to the next without any thought whatsoever - in fact we should all be City or United fans by now and Manchester should have been named football capital of the world forever - the top teams should win every game 6 - 0 and have squads of 44 with 4 top players for every position whilst the rest get by with  a bare 11

Patience - lifes not long enough for patience any more

Couldn't agree more.

I don't wanne be like Inter who sacks the manager after 5 poor games.

[walshys_mullet]

Good job no one saw Beardsley when we first bought him and had the internet.

[helmboy_nige]

I'm patient...

I don't really care for all these comments about being patient for 20 years.  I've been patient for 20 years and despite the failure to win the league we have won a hell of a lot of trophies in that time.  The individual projects (Houllier, Rafa) may not have finished in ultimate success for various reasons, but we owe it to the team and the manager to support the project.

As someone else said, Kenny had results like this in the 80s.  Didn't stop us winning titles and trophies.

I'm not expecting us to win a title this year.  I will hope for it until it is mathematically impossible, but I am patient enough to recognise that success takes time.  Just because Chelsea bought the title quickly and Man City are trying to do the same (though it's been 3 years already hasn't it?), doesn't mean this is the norm.

Alex Ferguson took 6 years.
Bill Shankly took 5 years.

Yes this is another rebuilding project, but am sure the journey will be as entertaining as the success it will hopefully bring.

[gregorio]

I think anyone looking in here, seeing the highs and lows and how people flip flop from result to result and from performance to performance, would think this is a site for bipolar disease sufferers.

bipolar disorder

sorry, had to correct you, got OCD

[MiserableP15]

Patience - lifes not long enough for patience any more

As others have said, great post Vulmea. Good OP MM too. Shame it has to be said really - and not just once, but after every game or poor performance. Sometimes a win isn't even good enough.