Top: Expected goals & shot maps. Bottom: Expected goals timeline of the game I believe it's been two months since we last had a roundtable thread in here? That's something that needs to change. I wanted to talk in more depth about this game simply because we saw something new from Klopp, we saw some players in new positions, we saw Chamberlain finally start in the league, there was a lot to assess really. So lets start with...
Our ShapeInsert Jackie Chan meme here. It feels a bit like Klopp trying to troll pundits at times. They aren't the most knowledgeable creatures at the best of times but when it comes to tactical analysis, they are laughably inept in this country. Firmino's position/role fucks them up all the time. They also hate asymmetry in team shapes too. So against Huddersfield where we effectively had Gomez as a wide center back on the right and Moreno as a left wing back - that fucked them up. This weekend initially it was described as three at the back, given we had the ball most of the time, Gomez stayed back and Moreno pushed up. Then it was a 4-2-3-1 off the ball with Firmino dropping in between Mane & Chamberlain. Then Klopp talked about it being 4-4-2. So what is it?
All of those. People get quite hung up on starting formations for some reason but the problem with them all tends to be symmetry, which our shape will rarely have under Klopp and structure - which we rarely have in attack. Plus our system changes frequently during the game too. Usually subtle differences in midfield, the roles players have, Firmino dropping into midfield to give us a cube in front of defence when under pressure, that sort of stuff. This game there were bigger changes. We did have a back three on the ball with Moreno pushed up for width left, Chamberlain right, Mane narrower. Once ahead we had quite a back four with Gomez & Moreno holding their positions more and not getting ahead of the ball. The one constant in the game though - which is a rarity for us - was central midfield. Similar to the Dortmund side which went through many formations but always maintained the #6 - #8 partnership in there - Can & Gini were the constant two. Unlike those Dortmund sides, Can seemed to have the licence to push forward and carry the ball while Gini held midfield for him. Averaged out over the course of the game though, this is perhaps the closest we have seen to a 4-2-3-1 since Sevilla. Salah clearly lead the line. Chamberlain was the Kuba/Grosskreutz in the side, providing width as a creator in attack. Mane was the hybrid attacker drifting inside to search for goals allowing Moreno to offer the width left. Firmino was the Gotze/Kagawa behind the striker creating space and linking midfield to attack.
Did it work?Yes - in that we won, and won well. However, I hate results based analysis. The difference between a striker scoring at one end and missing at the other shouldn't be the difference between a good performance and bad performance. Whether we state our tactics worked, or failed. Perhaps the best example of this I have is Manchester City and Manchester United. Both started the season in similar vein racking up the goals. However, when you delve into the expected goals timelines of both teams, it showed that United were racked up the goals against beaten sides but struggling to create from open play when the game was tied. Their breakthroughs coming from set pieces, errors or moments of individual brilliance. Put simply, the players were scoring goals the system was not creating anything. In contrast to City, their system is creating chances galore for everyone on the pitch. Even a weak finisher like Sterling is racking up the goals as it's almost impossible to miss when the system is creating tap ins for you every other game. So lets look purely at the performance and focus on the game up to the 60 minute mark when it became really open and end to end.
So similar to the United games against West Ham, Swansea and the like at the start of the season where they were banging in four goals a game, we effectively created nothing from open play until the game opened up. We capitalized on a mistake by them on their own corner, then scored off a set piece and a moment of individual brilliance from Firmino got us the 3rd goal. So in that sense, this performance concerned me. So breaking it down further, lets look at some individuals.
MignoletOur captain for the day, but how did he do? A recurring problem I have with analysing goalkeepers is we measure their performances only by amazing looking saves or very clear mistakes. Everything else in between is grey area that I don't think fans or pundits alike understand well enough to accurately critique. On that basis, how did he do? Well he had very little to actually do. He had 1 shot on target and conceded 1 goal - so in that sense it's not looking good as he made zero saves. Although I would give him credit for his pressure on Lanzini preventing him having an easy tapin for his second. It's not a save because there was no shot on target, but for sure his closing down forced Lanzini to rush his shot over the bar. He also had a moment of almost getting caught in possession too. The worrying this is that he has now conceded 17 goals from 36 shots on target. Only Spurs and Man City goalkeepers have made less saves, however they have only conceeded 7 goals each so are saving a much higher ratio of their shots on target. Long term, he still doesn't feel like the solution for us in goal.
GomezI was critical of him on the ball against Huddesfield. He was incredibly wasteful. Today it was his defensive work that worried me. He completely lost Lanzini a few times. Once West Ham realised he could be got at, Arnautovic came on and beat him way too easily out wide to get crosses in. So once again I have to say Joe Gomez #notafullback. But there is no simple solution. TAA isn't ready to play 3 games a week at the highest level. Clyne's injury problems show no signs of going away and Milner just doesn't have the legs to play out there anymore as Son & Aurier showed when they beat him far too easily in the Spurs game.
MorenoHis return as a dependable full back continues. I was looking at his attacking stats pre-Klopp and it is notable how much he has reigned everything in this season. A bad to basics approach if you will. If he can start putting up those attacking numbers (which were the best in the league at the time) again on top of his new found defensive stability, we are looking at having legitimately one of the best full backs in europe. No wonder Spain are picking up the phone again. Well played Albie!
Matip & KlavanAll in all I thought they did pretty well. Their distribution from the back is annoying still at times. Nitpicking though. The fact we didn't see either of them bullied by Carroll is something, although I put that down more to Can than the CB's. Speaking of which...
CanThis game demonstrated clearly to me why in the Premier League, in Klopp's system, you need a big unit in the #6 role. Someone who will compete against the likes of Carroll and Wagner (Hoffenheim). I pointed out Henderson's problem dealing with Wagner, most apparent when he lost the header in the build up to their penalty - but in our system the #6 will have to deal with a lot of long balls &/or clearances into his zone and challenge the target man for them. I was surprised Hoffenheim didn't make more use of that but then they like to keep the ball down at all costs it seems and so only that rushed clearance exposed us there. However if you had the likes of Jorginho, Gini, Milner in there week to week, over time it would cause you some problems. Can stood up to the Carroll threat brilliantly. I still worry he slows down the pace of our buildup play but in reality, as long as he has the right #8 next to him like Bender/Kehl did in Dortmund, then the technical ability of the #6 is the least important thing. They just simply have to read the game well, be disciplined holding their position and be able to dominate their zone in the air. In that sense, I think he was the biggest difference today between a win and not. With a #6 in there that Carroll could bully, I fear that would have been a very different game. If he ends up in Turin, I hope we replace him with the likes of Fabinho, Saul or Weigl. I still think getting that #6 role right is the most important missing part in the side still.
GiniAs mentioned before, he seems to have an important role in our midfield in that he is the most tactically intelligent of the group and plugs the holes others leave, or tries too, better than anybody. In that sense, he makes sense as a #6. Shame he didn't have Can's height and Can didn't have Gini's agility. Can's natural inclination to burst forward means you need a Gini next to him. Someone to plug the gap he leaves. Same as Henderson really. The problem is when you have Can & Henderson together. For me it is no coincidence that the worst midfield performances come with him missing from the side like Spurs this season or Hull away last season. Players who sacrifice their own game in exchange for limiting space for the opponent and maximising space for your own team are missed most when they aren't there.
Mane This is by far the worst I have seen him play. Yet he still has 2 assists
He looked off the pace though. He lost a headstart in a foot race to Fernandes. The most interesting thing was how we pressed in a way that minimized his workload off the ball. Chamberlain in particular ran an outrageous amount as he took on a huge zone in terms of pressing while Mane had almost no pressing at all to do. He saved all his energy to run on the ball. In that sense it reminded me a little of watching Ronaldinho at Barca. The pinnacle of a luxury player. The game was all about getting him back to match sharpness, good to see him make it through ~70 minutes. Hope he plays a reasonable amount for Senegal to get match sharpness up, wins, gets a rest for their second game and comes back firing and ready to go. We need him.
Bob Fermeeneeyoh. Yes I pronounced that as wrong as fuck. Just like every pundit it seems. He's a joy to watch at times. There were a few moments of the sublime from him. He needs to be tucking that shot away though. Although in fairness, he did make it for himself out of nothing. I loved hearing Klopp talk about when he subbed him off he was angry that he hadn't scored. Klopp said "what a performance" and his only reply was "I want to score". Hopefully that fire will see his output creep back up again. But as long as he is creating the space and providing the ammunition for those around him, who scores will be of no concern to Klopp. (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLcgozxbOto)
SalahThe Chelsea reject continues to make an absolute mockery of those who doubted him. In my last roundtable OP against Arsenal I mentioned that he had a LOT more goals in him than what we had seen so far. He is great at drifting into those spaces that Firmino leaves and at such pace than once he makes the move, nobody is beating him. As a striker, if you get into scoring positions and are getting 3+ shots off per game, you will score a lot of goals. I predicted he would score even more here without Dzeko centrally wanting to be in the prime goalscoring positions and so far that looks a good shout. Hope he keeps it up.
ChamberlainGood to see him finally start. I know it's hard to be patient with this one but I did suggest this would likely happen, and it's sticking to my timeframe almost to the day. I looked back over old data on Firmino & Lallana on their running and pressing numbers when Klopp arrived (in an article I haven't posted up yet, but will soon enough). Basically, it looks like it takes players two months to learn the pressing triggers to stop them just running and collapsing our shape with pressing without structure (see the Arsenal City game for what running rather than pressing looks like). FOr most signings, this will be picked up in pre-season, or in Keita's case, he already learned this at Salzburg and Leipzig. Chamberlain has the legs and desire to run, but just hasn't had the system drilled into him yet. So I suggested it could be a couple of months before we saw him starting and perhaps another couple of months still (around Xmas) until he would be starting in the crucial central areas. I thought he was excellent though and the sheer amount of work he is willing to do will certainly keep him at the front of Klopp's thinking. He reminds me a lot of Grosskreutz in that sense for Dortmund. He made himself undropable by doing a lot of the legwork of Gotze and Reus. I saw a lot of that with him and Firmino doing the legwork for Salah to remain primed to counter and to nurse Mane back to health.
So a great result, nice for the goal difference, but our inability to link play, create and recycle the ball with a good tempo before the 60th minute worries me. As with the Europa League final, I don't think we have the right players to play a midfield 2 yet. That should change if we get a new #6 and Keita to partner him. Thankfully Lallana is back soon and I think Lallana, Gini + Henderson (or Can) and our midfield should become the good platform all our attacking play was built on last season once more.
I still worry about Gomez at RB. He struggles when isolated out wide. I noted recently that either a RB mistake or the RB being easily beaten had directly resulted in 5 (now 6) goals against us already this season which is a good measure of how much we are missing Clyne out there.
What about you guys? Was there anything I missed? Was I too harsh on our performance or certain individuals? Not harsh enough? Tell me about it below.