Author Topic: The unravelling. A team, manager and fans shafted by transfer incompetence  (Read 582035 times)

Offline Illmatic

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,107
I believe the better the team he manages, the better manager he'll appear to be.

He took Swansea as far as he could given their budget, and I reckon he's taken us as far last season.

Seems pretty meaningless as surely any manager will appear better if they have better players to work with ultimately you judge a manager based on what gets out the players at his disposal. Do you not think no other manager could get more out of this Liverpool squad?

Plenty of money has been spent so far during Rodger's tenure we are in the position we are in because of a lot of that money has been spent poorly. Perhaps he has taken us as far as he can if so then that just underlines his limitations as a manager.

If he was at City he wouldn't have any more control over transfers than he does here, perhaps even less; and in my opinion City have spent even more poorly than us over the last two or three years considering the greater sums and their ability to offer much higher wages. Their best players are still same ones from before Pellegrini arrived. Do you believe Rodgers would do a better job than Pellegrini? You and many others on here may say yes but this couldn't really be back up by any evidence given Rodger's managerial record so far.     
« Last Edit: May 1, 2015, 09:20:28 pm by Illmatic »
Nas is like the Afrocentric Asian, half-man, half-amazin

Offline nuts100

  • RAWK's Squirrel Accountant
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,761
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
If this is a reference to my comment about how I remember the old days, then you've missed my point mate. That wasn't what I was getting at.

I'm merely saying it never occurred to us to challenge the manager's decisions. Call it blind faith or the fact that we were so successful that we were confident we'd win the league anyway.


But, as stated earlier, this is a forum where one puts out ideas and others agree/dissect and we contribute to a forum.
In no was is this real life, it's just a forum where like minded people can discuss, vent or whatever you want to call. it. You'll always get muppets, that's life and always used to happen. Unfortunately, all the idiots used to congregate in working mens clubs or down the pub where they'd bore the crap out of you putting all lifes ills to rights.

Now, I did jest before, the internet is a source of greatness as well as mindless stupidity.  :)
However, it's also a massive source of good, you just have to navigate carefully

Offline CrasherKid79

  • Crashedandburnedkid2017
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,820
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Exactly why we are where we are. Stuck in the past, remembering how great we used to be. Post sums it up, "I remember a bad game" in a season that won us the double. You also knew there was a structure in place that meant we would carry on and with specific signings, would take us forward. I also remember us getting our arses handed to us by Clough in the first round of the european Cup, however, that was a blip, not the current norm.

I love this, I'm a better fan than you crap. If you honestly think that Lovren/Allen/Borini are the future of this club, then fair do's, I don't and we'll have to agree to disagree. Will I shout from the roof tops sat in my seat, oh hell yes, but don't try and state people are better fans than others because they disagree over player. It's complete nonsense.

Again, as i said earlier, Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks  ;D
However, the banter is great  :P


.... exactly my god its like a defeatist nonsense

Offline Redric1970

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,927
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
I lot of rumours, and obviously they are just rumours, but it seems to be a pretty widespread one that we are close two agreeing a £22mil fee with real for this Russian winger who know one has heard of, he's never made real's first team and here we are supposedly about to pay an unbelievable fee, the world has gone absolutely mad, if we do complete this signing I will lose all faith in Brendan Rodgers when it comes to buying players.

Offline Chakan

  • Chaka Chaka.....is in love with Aristotle but only for votes. The proud owner of some very private piles and an inflatable harem! Winner of RAWK's Carabao Cup captian contest.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 91,079
  • Internet Terrorist lvl VI
I lot of rumours, and obviously they are just rumours, but it seems to be a pretty widespread one that we are close two agreeing a £22mil fee with real for this Russian winger who know one has heard of, he's never made real's first team and here we are supposedly about to pay an unbelievable fee, the world has gone absolutely mad, if we do complete this signing I will lose all faith in Brendan Rodgers when it comes to buying players.

I hope we get him.

Offline TheFlyingScouseman

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,919
  • Nice day
I'm betting 22mil that won't happen.


Offline Redric1970

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,927
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
I hope we get him.

Seriously, I can't believe the price that's being talked about, even Nunez at least made madrids first team, this fella it's just madness.

Offline Chakan

  • Chaka Chaka.....is in love with Aristotle but only for votes. The proud owner of some very private piles and an inflatable harem! Winner of RAWK's Carabao Cup captian contest.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 91,079
  • Internet Terrorist lvl VI
Seriously, I can't believe the price that's being talked about, even Nunez at least made madrids first team, this fella it's just madness.

But he's Russian and a winger, and somewhere near the Madrid team.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

  • Well red.Tom Jones Lover. AKA Debbie McGee. Apparently.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,289
  • Under 7s Coaching Manual Owner.
Seems pretty meaningless as surely any manager will appear better if they have better players to work with





Better looking than Samie.

Offline Redric1970

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,927
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
But he's Russian and a winger, and somewhere near the Madrid team.

You can see it coming we buy this fella for £22mil and sell them sterling for £10mil, usual business.

Offline Chakan

  • Chaka Chaka.....is in love with Aristotle but only for votes. The proud owner of some very private piles and an inflatable harem! Winner of RAWK's Carabao Cup captian contest.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 91,079
  • Internet Terrorist lvl VI
You can see it coming we buy this fella for £22mil and sell them sterling for £10mil, usual business.

Straight swap deal.

Offline SerbianScouser

  • Far from world class.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,869
  • ...All the best

Offline rickardinho1

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,138
  • The Earth is Flat
I lot of rumours, and obviously they are just rumours, but it seems to be a pretty widespread one that we are close two agreeing a £22mil fee with real for this Russian winger who know one has heard of, he's never made real's first team and here we are supposedly about to pay an unbelievable fee, the world has gone absolutely mad, if we do complete this signing I will lose all faith in Brendan Rodgers when it comes to buying players.
I wouldnt get your knickers in a twist just yet... Its only been reported in the metro and the like, and one day it's 16m euros the next £22m. Sounds like utter garbage.

Offline Redric1970

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,927
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
I wouldnt get your knickers in a twist just yet... Its only been reported in the metro and the like, and one day it's 16m euros the next £22m. Sounds like utter garbage.

I hope your right, we are just throwing them off the scent by being linked with garbage. :)

Offline alvaro

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,173

Offline nuts100

  • RAWK's Squirrel Accountant
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,761
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop




You know, it's taken years to forget that dickhead, you bastard  ;D

Offline Le_Mot_Juste

  • Pity that it is hidden in thousands of considerably less merit.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,399
  • Fully endorse my custom title
According to the Echo we're trying to sign Alex Song, Depay, Benteke and Cavani.
If we signed all 4, I would be very positive about next season.
Naturally, we won't sign any of them.
Perhaps Benteke at 35 mill or something.
To choose dogma and faith over doubt and experience is to throw out the ripening vintage and to reach greedily for the kool-aid.
- Hitch

Offline Chakan

  • Chaka Chaka.....is in love with Aristotle but only for votes. The proud owner of some very private piles and an inflatable harem! Winner of RAWK's Carabao Cup captian contest.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 91,079
  • Internet Terrorist lvl VI
You know, it's taken years to forget that dickhead, you bastard  ;D


Offline rickardinho1

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,138
  • The Earth is Flat

Wasnt Jovanovic a Rafa signing? I'm sure he would have been more useful under him anyways rather than the owl face

Offline alvaro

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,173






Is that the bar a Liverpool manager now has? We dont need him to be better than Hodgson, Allardyce and Moyes.  We need him to be better than Wenger, Van Gaal and Pellegrini. All them have won league titles. All of them have made the late stages of the CL. Thats the standard.
« Last Edit: May 1, 2015, 09:54:19 pm by alvaro »

Offline Chakan

  • Chaka Chaka.....is in love with Aristotle but only for votes. The proud owner of some very private piles and an inflatable harem! Winner of RAWK's Carabao Cup captian contest.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 91,079
  • Internet Terrorist lvl VI
Wasnt Jovanovic a Rafa signing? I'm sure he would have been more useful under him anyways rather than the owl face

Shhhhh i'm trying to be mean ;)

Offline Caston

  • Castoff, Knitone, Purlone
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,678
According to the Echo we're trying to sign Alex Song, Depay, Benteke and Cavani.
If we signed all 4, I would be very positive about next season.
Naturally, we won't sign any of them.
Perhaps Benteke at 35 mill or something.

Are you sure thats not the rumour section or something?

Offline PhaseOfPlay

  • Well red.Tom Jones Lover. AKA Debbie McGee. Apparently.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,289
  • Under 7s Coaching Manual Owner.
Is that the bar a Liverpool manager now has? We dont need him to be better than Hodgson, Allardyce and Moyes.  We need him to be better than Wenger, Van Gaal and Pellegrini. All them have won league titles. All of them have made the late stages of the CL. Thats the standard.

Um, no.

The pictures were in response to the post that stated that any manager with better players will look better. But I just posted three examples where that is not the case.
Better looking than Samie.

Offline Caston

  • Castoff, Knitone, Purlone
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,678
We're gonna get this thread locked again talking about transfers!

Offline Redric1970

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,927
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
It's bs. Came from Marca.

Kristian Bennett (Hitman8976 on RAWK) - the guy who got info about Monchi first:

kristian bennett @hitman8976rawk  ·  22h 22 hours ago
Got a text saying were after a real Madrid player not got any names just that it's a midfielder who's not a regular starter.... Any ideas?

Illarra.

Can't be him then, he's never played for them, Isco it is then, if only.

Offline Twitter.com

  • 140 character limitation. Laugh now but one day he'll be in chorge. Media junkie.
  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,477
Interesting bit about Monchi:


kristian bennett ‏@hitman8976rawk 32s32 seconds ago
@Nazdagama he wasn't at melwood monchi he was at Chapel st

hotel Indigo?

kristian bennett ‏@hitman8976rawk 31s31 seconds ago
@BonoLFC @Nazdagama no the Lfc offices
« Last Edit: May 1, 2015, 10:15:47 pm by Bonsky »
^ That's what you get for posting twitter shite kids.

Offline Carlito Roberto

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,829
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Are you sure thats not the rumour section or something?
It will be.

The only players linked to LFC this summer by the usual credible sources (Barrett, King, Joyce) are Milner and Depay.

Anyway, shit season wasn't it.

Offline LFCsupporter

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,770
It's bs. Came from Marca.

Kristian Bennett (Hitman8976 on RAWK) - the guy who got info about Monchi first:

kristian bennett @hitman8976rawk  ·  22h 22 hours ago
Got a text saying were after a real Madrid player not got any names just that it's a midfielder who's not a regular starter.... Any ideas?

There's only one name that fits the bill
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/jnJtdWPOVUU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/jnJtdWPOVUU</a>

Offline Illmatic

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,107






Allardyce has never had an opportunity at a really big club with top top players. Moyes inherited declining United squad that was always set to implode once SAF left and was only there for a season. Given how poor we have been this season Moyes would have had a decent chance of making top four this season given the money United have spent since Van Gaal took over. Hodgson may well be the exception but it's pointless in anyway comparing his tenure to Brendan's considering how short it was.

In any case I think the basic point I was trying make stands. A manager would look better managing Messi, Neymar & Suarez than would managing Lambert, Balotelli & Broni because the former three are infinitely better footballers. Its only right to judge a manager by what he gets out the players he has available to him and not by what players he would be managing at another team. 
Nas is like the Afrocentric Asian, half-man, half-amazin

Offline Djimi Smicer34

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,756
  • JFT96
I stand on the same side of the fence as Timbo when it comes to Rodgers and his position with us going forward but, with respect because I do agree with his posts on the whole, its really difficult not to hold Rodgers to account for at least some of our failings in the market.

Like Timbo I don't think he ever wanted Mario Balotelli and no amount of him saying "I have the final say on all transfers" would convince me otherwise.  But the fact remains that he continues to say that, he has always insisted that he holds the deciding vote in the purchase of every player we've signed since the transfer committe was put in place.

Now I'm not expecting him to publicly wash his hands of any signing that he might not actually want. He's not going to rock the boat and put himself directly at odds with the rest of the committee.  But when he is so continually effusive in his proclomations that no player is signed by Liverpool Football without his say-so then he's going to be held to account, particularly when some have got the knives out for him; when he has so much detractors out there waiting to pounce at any opportunity, any such proclomations are going to be the rope used to hang him.

The fact is that while people like myself might not believe that Rodgers wanted Balotelli, we really can't say with absolute certainty that he was strong-armed into signing him.  How do we know for certain that, after reassurances from the player, his agent and others on the committee, that Rodgers didn't think: "you know what, maybe I'm the one who'll finally get through to Ballotelli"?  Maybe Rodgers wasn't the one who suggested Balotelli but can we say unequivocally that he put up much of a protest when the player was offered?

The reality is we can't say anything with any real certainty, unless we were to sit in on those meetings where decisions are made then all we can really do is speculate and try to make an educated guess.

Therein lies the problem with the enormous clusterfuck that is our infamous transfer committee.

Who is suggesting the players?  Who, ultimately, really has the final say?  Do certain members possibly have more of the owners' ear than others?  If the committee are all on the same page then why are we still arguing about "Rodgers signings" vs "committee signings"?  Do we really need so many cooks in the kitchen?  If the axe falls as a consequence of last summer then who carries the can and gets held publicly accountable? 

Its an utter mess; there's no clarity, no consistent track record of success.  We know who sits on the committee and what purpose its supposed to serve but otherwise there are too many questions.  We've spent a ridiculous amount of money through this committee structure and we still argue over who is really signing the players.  For me, thats indicative of a deeply flawed system.

Some blame Rodgers, others blame Ayre, some say we rely too heavily on the stats-oriented Edwards, other point the finger at the job done by scouts Fallows and Hunter.  Its a clusterfuck of epic proportions where some just want to pin the blame on individuals while others see it as a collective failure.

And its a propaganda tool.

If you're firmly entrenched in the camp that wants Rodgers gone then he usually cops all the blame for the bad signings while "the committee" gets all the credit for the good ones.  If you're still supporting Rodgers then the argument seems to be that he's been shafted by the committee and saddled with players he never wanted.

Both arguments might well contain an element of truth.  Perhaps Rodgers has been the driving force behind some of our mistakes in the market or, conversely, maybe he has been told in some cases that he to make do with gambles on players like Ballotelli and make the best of it.  But there remains far too much of a grey area when it comes to the committee for any of us to come to one single conclusion one way or the other.

In the past couple of days there have been rumours about "crisis meetings" set up to scrutinise the business done by the committee where, supposely, heads might roll.  But then today the media is carrying quotes from Rodgers praising the committee and the work its done.  That sums it up; one day we're hearing the committee and some of its members might well be in jeopardy, the next Rodgers is lauding it.  Which is it?  From the outside it looks a total shambles, at least in my view anyway.  Does Rodgers really believe that its a set-up that's working and will bring in the players that he needs in the summer?  Nearly £200m later, will FSG conclude that the committee is working in their end-of-season review or will they question where the value is to be found in the spending that they've sanctioned?

I back Rodgers but I honestly don't know if he'll be here next season.  I definitely want him to be but I really don't believe that its a sure thing by any means.  One thing I do know is that if he does come back from Boston with his job intact at the end of this month, he's going into the most important transfer window of his managerial career so far.  If we start next season anywhere near as badly as this one there won't be any more chances to put things right, if we're adrift at Christmas and playing as badly as we are now then he's a dead man walking. 

The stakes have never been higher for the committee, particularly the manager who sits on it.  If it remains intact this summer we simply can't go into next season asking ourselves the same questions and having the same arguments that we have throughout this one. 

The sky isn't falling on us just yet but the platform we began to build last season in order to reach for it again has begun to crumble.  If the committee doesn't provide us with the tools to restart that forward momentum this summer then big changes are inevitable.
« Last Edit: May 1, 2015, 10:29:06 pm by Djimi Smicer »

Offline robgomm

  • He just can't get enough of Luis Suarez.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,087
I don't think Rodgers' comments today are surprising. He's made comments about what we need to sign but he's not going to say the set up isn't working. One, because he may genuinely think it is (which seems somewhat unlikely) but more likely because it'd be a foolish livings public battle to pick. Hopefully FSG are making things more efficient behind the scenes.

Offline Harinder

  • RAWK Star. Top Kharbooja. Heat-Sikhing Missile Launcher. Purveyor of burning bushes, interpreter of dreams, provider of Egyptian travel before the age of 30, and saviour of RAWK. Also he has a beard.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,703
We're gonna get this thread locked again talking about transfers!
Just clicked on the main board and my virus scanner came back with this

"When we visited this site, we found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors."


:lmao

Strip his knighthood https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47770