Author Topic: Labour Thread  (Read 173091 times)

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #160 on: November 14, 2022, 02:43:31 pm »
I live in Wimbledon, it couldn't be more middle class and posh and yet it had a Labour MP when I first moved here, and I think it will go Labour again next time. Stephen 'Bombhead' Hammond is the tory MP at the moment, but not for long. I wonder how much this will be replicated across the southeast. A lot of educated posh types have a strong moral code, I nearly got lynched for saying that I loved Boris because he was such a larff, until those who knew me better held off those who didn't.

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #161 on: November 14, 2022, 02:57:13 pm »
I think this is a good example of the problems Labour face from the left letting ideology dictate their decisions.
Attack is Labours shadow health minister Streeting is in favour of privatising parts of the NHS when he has said nothing of the sort. he is talking about solving a a serious problem nobody can dispute. inheriting a massive backlog in the NHS waiting list.

 So whose view should Labour support, whose view will the public respect, the ones who tell them sorry paying for private treatment goes against my ideology so you will have to sit and suffer in agony for years until your top of the waiting list or the ones who say allowing you to wait in agony for years is unacceptable and we will do something about it even if that means sending you for private treatment so people don't have to suffer, so we can get that waiting list time down and run a efficient NHS so people aren't forced to pay for private treatment.

LBC on Twitter: "I will use private healthcare to bring down NHS waiting lists if I'm the next Health Secretary, says Wes Streeting. @wesstreeting https://t.co/rR5cO8ni6q" / Twitter


Sequester private hospitals, subcontract their staff, and clear the backlog that way.

Paying healthcare corporations to boost their profits, dividends and obscene 'salary packages' to senior executives out of taxpayer money is immoral.

Going forward, double (at least) the number of medical degree places and defer any repayment of student debt for as long as graduates do a certain amount of work for the NHS.

Default on every single PFI/PPP contract and requisition those hospitals.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #162 on: November 14, 2022, 03:14:27 pm »

Sequester private hospitals, subcontract their staff, and clear the backlog that way.

Paying healthcare corporations to boost their profits, dividends and obscene 'salary packages' to senior executives out of taxpayer money is immoral.

Going forward, double (at least) the number of medical degree places and defer any repayment of student debt for as long as graduates do a certain amount of work for the NHS.

Default on every single PFI/PPP contract and requisition those hospitals.
Force specialist to treat NHS patients without paying them for private treatment? is that possible, will it work in practice. ?
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #163 on: November 14, 2022, 03:23:17 pm »
Force specialist to treat NHS patients without paying them for private treatment? is that possible, will it work in practice. ?

It's probably unlawful   :scarf

But, like, they did it in the war. And this is a crisis. I hardly think it would be a vote-loser.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #164 on: November 14, 2022, 03:32:14 pm »
It's probably unlawful   :scarf

But, like, they did it in the war. And this is a crisis. I hardly think it would be a vote-loser.
So it wont work, I think voters will respect Streetings solution for obvious reasons, it will work, he also argues this is not just a compassionate solution it also actually saves the country money in the long run. that should be game set and match for voters.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #165 on: November 14, 2022, 03:33:17 pm »
It's probably unlawful   :scarf

But, like, they did it in the war. And this is a crisis. I hardly think it would be a vote-loser.

Guess you'd need to jail any specialist that refused and quit and reposses their houses and put them and their families into a forced labour camp?

Is that moral? What other options are there? If you were a high-paid specialist being forced to work for no wages, then would you be happy?
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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #166 on: November 14, 2022, 03:37:23 pm »
So it wont work, I think voters will respect Streetings solution for obvious reasons, it will work, he also argues this is not just a compassionate solution it also actually saves the country money in the long run. that should be game set and match for voters.
If I was on an NHS waiting list I'd certainly appreciate it!  Politically I'd only want it to be a short-term boon for the private health sector which was shortly after balanced with huge investment in the NHS to avoid similar backlogs and overspending on procedures in the future.

I'd also nab a couple of loo rolls and a towel if I ended up being treated in a private hospital.  Maybe take the batteries out the TV remote as well for good measure.  That'd teach 'em for profiting off the back of NHS patients.

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #167 on: November 14, 2022, 03:48:20 pm »
Guess you'd need to jail any specialist that refused and quit and reposses their houses and put them and their families into a forced labour camp?

Is that moral? What other options are there? If you were a high-paid specialist being forced to work for no wages, then would you be happy?


 
 :o

Wow! that's quite the leap there, Andy!


I said I'd subcontract them. They could leave if they wanted. Or be paid at the rate that they got working private.

I don't have a problem in consultants/doctors/surgeons/etc being paid well. No problem at all. I do have a problem with shyster 'entrepreneurs' putting in an additional layer of superluous cost just to line their own pockets whilst doing nothing useful.

You can bet that a private healthcare company charging the NHs Ł1,000 an hour for their staff wouldn't be paying the staff Ł1,000 an hour.

Find a way to pay the actual clinical staff directly without lining the pockets of parasite healthcare company shareholders/senior execs.

That's pragmatism for you - as you can employ more clinical staff for taxpayer money and therefore get more operations done/reduce the backlog more quickly.




A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #168 on: November 14, 2022, 03:54:06 pm »
If I was on an NHS waiting list I'd certainly appreciate it!  Politically I'd only want it to be a short-term boon for the private health sector which was shortly after balanced with huge investment in the NHS to avoid similar backlogs and overspending on procedures in the future.

I'd also nab a couple of loo rolls and a towel if I ended up being treated in a private hospital.  Maybe take the batteries out the TV remote as well for good measure.  That'd teach 'em for profiting off the back of NHS patients.
Private health care must be booming anyway as people are being forced to go private, that will continue for years to come.

It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #169 on: November 14, 2022, 04:18:54 pm »

 
 :o

Wow! that's quite the leap there, Andy!


I said I'd subcontract them. They could leave if they wanted. Or be paid at the rate that they got working private.

I don't have a problem in consultants/doctors/surgeons/etc being paid well. No problem at all. I do have a problem with shyster 'entrepreneurs' putting in an additional layer of superluous cost just to line their own pockets whilst doing nothing useful.

You can bet that a private healthcare company charging the NHs Ł1,000 an hour for their staff wouldn't be paying the staff Ł1,000 an hour.

Find a way to pay the actual clinical staff directly without lining the pockets of parasite healthcare company shareholders/senior execs.

That's pragmatism for you - as you can employ more clinical staff for taxpayer money and therefore get more operations done/reduce the backlog more quickly.






Yeah I was leaping off on one there, but worth it as that was a very interesting answer.

Private Healthcare isn't necessicarily totally evil as you say as long as the NHS isn't being illegally* fleeced


*I'd like to see laws enacted to stop health and other profiteering that's been ensconced in law since Thatcher has been around.  However, it's hard to see how the absolutely rich and those rigging the system at every level would ever accept it. I have no idea how a change might come about or if this is just the beginning of the country really going down the tubes. You have to ask these dickheads 'how much is too much' - personally if I ever play a game where I have 'made it' and have got all the toys then I get bored very quickly. I earn a decent amount and I think it's enough for what I do. I wish everyone thought like that. But I guess that's a pipedream.
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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #170 on: November 14, 2022, 04:33:31 pm »
NHS trained them, they've done very well out of it, payback time now.
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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #171 on: November 14, 2022, 08:38:58 pm »
NHS trained them, they've done very well out of it, payback time now.

In most cases it’s not just trained in the past tense, the NHS continues to train them because most private doctors work part time at the NHS so they can continue to benefit from the training, research etc while raking it in from the private work.
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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #172 on: November 14, 2022, 08:49:05 pm »
In most cases it’s not just trained in the past tense, the NHS continues to train them because most private doctors work part time at the NHS so they can continue to benefit from the training, research etc while raking it in from the private work.
Also to solicit new customers, and to take advantage of NHS colleagues in administration etc to organise their appointment schedules in both roles

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #173 on: November 15, 2022, 12:48:10 am »
Using words like ‘your boy’ and ‘your man’ and other things like this doesn’t even deserve a response. This kind of phrasing in the context it’s usually used is pretty mean-spirited, untrue and usually downright nasty.
You're right that it doesn't deserve a response because it's such an innocuous comment I can't believe you actually take issue with it... Damnn, what's the World coming to ?

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #174 on: November 15, 2022, 10:14:45 am »
I'm a bit late to the party on Starmer's interview with the Sunday Express.  It's a bit underwhelming, to say the least.  The best I can say for it is that he's probably saying the right things to appeal to the audience of that particular newspaper.

Let me clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over. There will be no return to that, either. What we want to do is make Brexit work.

As part of the 48% that voted to Remain there's no representation in mainstream politics.  Most polls put that 48% as now being a significant majority.  I voted Lib Dem last time around for that reason but they've since retreated into a "long-term roadmap" and the polls suggest they're now irrelevant.

Starmer's view that we should train more Britons to fill the skills shortage is obvious.  His proposed points based system is bland but not particularly contentious.  Both overlook though that much of the shortages are in the lower skilled jobs (in terms of formal qualifications) and entry level jobs.  How do his proposals tackle the disastrous lack of staff within the care system?  I have no sympathy for Wolfson and Next but if they put their wages up they just take staff from another understaffed company or sector.  These jobs need filling for the economy to function.

I fully understand that Starmer needs to play the game to get elected but I really hope that's what he's doing.  If this is the best Labour can come up with then very little of the damage done by the Tories will be undone (to be clear though, even this version of Labour is still 10x more appealing than the Tories!).

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #175 on: November 15, 2022, 10:17:27 am »
I'm a bit late to the party on Starmer's interview with the Sunday Express.  It's a bit underwhelming, to say the least.  The best I can say for it is that he's probably saying the right things to appeal to the audience of that particular newspaper.

As part of the 48% that voted to Remain there's no representation in mainstream politics.  Most polls put that 48% as now being a significant majority.  I voted Lib Dem last time around for that reason but they've since retreated into a "long-term roadmap" and the polls suggest they're now irrelevant.

Starmer's view that we should train more Britons to fill the skills shortage is obvious.  His proposed points based system is bland but not particularly contentious.  Both overlook though that much of the shortages are in the lower skilled jobs (in terms of formal qualifications) and entry level jobs.  How do his proposals tackle the disastrous lack of staff within the care system?  I have no sympathy for Wolfson and Next but if they put their wages up they just take staff from another understaffed company or sector.  These jobs need filling for the economy to function.

I fully understand that Starmer needs to play the game to get elected but I really hope that's what he's doing.  If this is the best Labour can come up with then very little of the damage done by the Tories will be undone (to be clear though, even this version of Labour is still 10x more appealing than the Tories!).


If we rejoined then the terms would be much, much worse than what we had before

I can't see it ever happening. As Rees-Mogg clearly said (And he's a Brexiter) - the country will be fucked for at least 50 years, but probably longer.

Then we get the sunlit uplands full of rainbow sheep and rabbits playing bass or something.
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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #176 on: November 15, 2022, 10:30:39 am »

If we rejoined then the terms would be much, much worse than what we had before

I can't see it ever happening. As Rees-Mogg clearly said (And he's a Brexiter) - the country will be fucked for at least 50 years, but probably longer.

Then we get the sunlit uplands full of rainbow sheep and rabbits playing bass or something.
I agree on any terms of our rejoining being worse than we had.  There realistically has to be a penalty to flip-flopping and all the time wasted and damage caused to the EU by Brexit.  I also think that if it did go to another referendum the groundswell for joining would dissipate as it would be described as a surrender by those against it.

It's the complete dismissal of the single market that really annoys me.  How can there be "no case" for going back into the single market, or at least aspiring to, with something similar to Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway or Switzerland?  It's just another acceptance that the Tories have served us up a shit sandwich and we'll just have to choke it down.

If the Brexit fanatics that currently make up our government can't "make Brexit work" then what hope does Starmer have?  He will at least have some goodwill with the EU to start afresh but his ambitions on that front seem incredibly low.  Exploitative trade deals with the rest of the world is not going to make anything work, it will just accelerate our race to the bottom.

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #177 on: November 15, 2022, 10:50:40 am »
The problem with going back into the Single Market and/or Customs Union is you would have to follow the rules but have no say over them.

It was one of the reasons why Brexit was always ludicrous and was impossible to be successful but people just bought the lies spewed out by the Vote leave campaign and anyone speaking in favour of Remain was demonised as promoting "Project Fear" which has now turned out to be Project Reality.

The cost of joining the Single Market politically will be a reason why it will never happen.

We will eventually go back into the EU but with our tail between our legs and without any of the Vetos we had prior to us leaving!

Anyway, slightly off topic
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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #178 on: November 15, 2022, 11:11:55 am »
On the NHS.    A friends mum has had a fall.    She has been sat in A and E for 24 hours.   Now no beds!    This is what people have voted for

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #179 on: November 15, 2022, 11:46:56 am »
On the NHS.    A friends mum has had a fall.    She has been sat in A and E for 24 hours.   Now no beds!    This is what people have voted for

Yep.

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #180 on: November 15, 2022, 12:08:07 pm »


Wish he'd just shut his mouth about Brexit, Express readers probably ain't going to vote for him and he just further alienates remain voters. Tories are imploding, so let them get on with it

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #181 on: November 15, 2022, 12:16:55 pm »
Wish he'd just shut his mouth about Brexit, Express readers probably ain't going to vote for him and he just further alienates remain voters. Tories are imploding, so let them get on with it

The problem is that he will always get asked about Brexit, so he has to have a line otherwise the narrative will be whatever certain media want it to be.

One thing that sticks out for me is that the current tory crowd, see the EU as the enemy whereas Starmer has treated the EU with respect, whatever happens going forward in terms of trade deals and relationships, surely it has to have a better outcome if both sides like each other.  If thats the starting point for Labour, then maybe they can deliver the least worst version of Brexit (no idea what that looks like tho) as opposed to the tories who seem to want a scorched earth relationship with everyone

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #182 on: November 15, 2022, 12:22:02 pm »
The problem is that he will always get asked about Brexit, so he has to have a line otherwise the narrative will be whatever certain media want it to be.

One thing that sticks out for me is that the current tory crowd, see the EU as the enemy whereas Starmer has treated the EU with respect, whatever happens going forward in terms of trade deals and relationships, surely it has to have a better outcome if both sides like each other.  If thats the starting point for Labour, then maybe they can deliver the least worst version of Brexit (no idea what that looks like tho) as opposed to the tories who seem to want a scorched earth relationship with everyone

Maybe, I don't know the context of how he was asked or why he did an interview with the Express, buy he could always give a typical politicians answer without committing to anything. Saying we definitely will do this, or definitely won't do that doesn't come across well when you eventually realise it may not be possible

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #183 on: November 15, 2022, 01:23:04 pm »
The way things are going, based on RAWK members political posts, I don't think labour will win the next election.

I see a lot of posts about 'the stupidity of British voters' or 'this is what they voted for so I have no sympathy', yet nobody seems to be convinced enough by the current Labour party to actually vote them in.

Sure they don't seem much different, or not radical enough, or socialist enough, or have similar ideologies to a lot in here but FFS anything has to be better than what we have.

I'm just not confident the Great British voting public will think like that 🤷

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #184 on: November 15, 2022, 01:25:40 pm »
The way things are going, based on RAWK members political posts, I don't think labour will win the next election.

I see a lot of posts about 'the stupidity of British voters' or 'this is what they voted for so I have no sympathy', yet nobody seems to be convinced enough by the current Labour party to actually vote them in.

Sure they don't seem much different, or not radical enough, or socialist enough, or have similar ideologies to a lot in here but FFS anything has to be better than what we have.

I'm just not confident the Great British voting public will think like that 🤷

If Labour cannot convert the current situation into a win for them, then clearly they are not good enough. Nobody thinks less of the British public than me, but its an open goal right now.

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #185 on: November 15, 2022, 01:40:48 pm »
If Labour cannot convert the current situation into a win for them, then clearly they are not good enough. Nobody thinks less of the British public than me, but its an open goal right now.

There's 2yrs to go yet and if traditional labour voters are jumping on minute misinterpretations like I've seen on here then anything can happen.

Is that voters fault, the politicians or the PR, marketing and policy advisors for not getting the message right 🤷

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #186 on: November 15, 2022, 01:43:10 pm »
There's 2yrs to go yet and if traditional labour voters are jumping on minute misinterpretations like I've seen on here then anything can happen.

Is that voters fault, the politicians or the PR, marketing and policy advisors for not getting the message right 🤷

You can criticise yet still vote for them, it's not a binary decision.

Although people shouldn't just vote Labour if they don't have a chance of winning where they live, but vote tactically

« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 01:46:22 pm by Machae »

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #187 on: November 15, 2022, 01:47:01 pm »
There's 2yrs to go yet and if traditional labour voters are jumping on minute misinterpretations like I've seen on here then anything can happen.

Is that voters fault, the politicians or the PR, marketing and policy advisors for not getting the message right 🤷

Some people will dig in to their world view, but the vast majority of them are still voting Labour.

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #188 on: November 15, 2022, 01:50:59 pm »
Interested in knowing what Starmers plans are for reforming the voting from FPTP to AV/PR

Assuming they win by a huge majority, do they do what previous winning Labour Govts do and leave the status quo (which is what I expect)

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #189 on: November 15, 2022, 01:53:24 pm »
Interested in knowing what Starmers plans are for reforming the voting from FPTP to AV/PR

Assuming they win by a huge majority, they do what previous winning Labour Govts do and leave the status quo

its always going to be the problem if they get a large majority, why would you change a winning formula.....only way it goes to AV/PR, asi see it, is if the elcetion is a close run thing and the smaller parties use that as part of them supporting a minority government.

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #190 on: November 15, 2022, 01:59:12 pm »
You can criticise yet still vote for them, it's not a binary decision.

Although people shouldn't just vote Labour if they don't have a chance of winning where they live, but vote tactically
Even when the forecasts were showing Tories being close to extinction my bloody constituency was still expected to remain Tory.  It's infuriating as the town is not at all wealthy and is on its knees but it's dwarfed in population by the true blue surrounding villages.

I'm not sure what it would take to make it a competitive constituency as the other parties don't really even contest it.  Beyond my vote not being for the incumbent Tory I'm not sure who I'll be voting for.  It will likely just be virtue signalling again so freedom to vote any which way.

Nothing Labour have done or said would stop me voting for them, tactically or otherwise.  Equally though it's not all that inspiring (beyond the New Green Deal which I think is very good).

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #191 on: November 15, 2022, 02:00:41 pm »
Interested in knowing what Starmers plans are for reforming the voting from FPTP to AV/PR

Assuming they win by a huge majority, do they do what previous winning Labour Govts do and leave the status quo (which is what I expect)

He has stated he has no plans to move away from FPTP.  He cited the value of local MPs.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #192 on: November 15, 2022, 02:01:37 pm »
its always going to be the problem if they get a large majority, why would you change a winning formula.....only way it goes to AV/PR, asi see it, is if the elcetion is a close run thing and the smaller parties use that as part of them supporting a minority government.


Every time Labour gets in it ignores this issue on the assumption they will retain power, they never do. The way boundaries and independence are going the world is moving towards the interests of the tories who have never get more than 50% of the vote since the 1930s yet have exercise total power for much of that period.


Electoral reform is necessary to take away this opportunity for them to have unrestrained power. Labour might want unrestrained power themselves but they never really get it even when they have a majority because of the forces they face so why try and achieve it.
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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #193 on: November 15, 2022, 02:11:37 pm »
He has stated he has no plans to move away from FPTP.  He cited the value of local MPs.

Meanwhile Tories will gerrymander and bring in electoral reform which will make it harder for traditional labour voters to make themselves heard

Starmer may be the right choice for now, but he doesn't read the room very well

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #194 on: November 15, 2022, 02:15:28 pm »
Meanwhile Tories will gerrymander and bring in electoral reform which will make it harder for traditional labour voters to make themselves heard

Starmer may be the right choice for now, but he doesn't read the room very well

Correct. I think even his biggest fan have said the same


Hes very risk averse, Its like he wants to walk over the finish line rather than run and risk a fall.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #195 on: November 15, 2022, 02:23:53 pm »
I think that bringing in PR would be the end of the Labour Party.  So I can understand why the leader of the Labour party would be against it.  It's the right thing for the country though.
Correct. I think even his biggest fan have said the same


Hes very risk averse, Its like he wants to walk over the finish line rather than run and risk a fall.
Honestly In think this election is too important.  I'm fine with a safety first approach this time around.  It's been 12 years of spectacular destruction by this government and we need to get them out and spend at least one term just putting all the fires out.  After that we can get a bit more imaginative.

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #196 on: November 15, 2022, 02:50:06 pm »
I think that bringing in PR would be the end of the Labour Party.  So I can understand why the leader of the Labour party would be against it.  It's the right thing for the country though.Honestly In think this election is too important.  I'm fine with a safety first approach this time around.  It's been 12 years of spectacular destruction by this government and we need to get them out and spend at least one term just putting all the fires out.  After that we can get a bit more imaginative.


It would be the end of the Labour Party as sole rulers but the likelihood of a broad left government on a permanent basis. Only about 40-45% of people are committed to Tory Values, they should not gain power on the back of that.


Politics is sick anyway, it needs to grow up
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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #197 on: November 15, 2022, 02:54:10 pm »

It would be the end of the Labour Party as sole rulers but the likelihood of a broad left government on a permanent basis. Only about 40-45% of people are committed to Tory Values, they should not gain power on the back of that.


Politics is sick anyway, it needs to grow up

Yeah, on the one hand, we espouse principles and doing the right thing as virtuous deeds, even so far as Starmer saying he will leave it as it is due to 'the value of local MPs', yet they are happy with what appears to be an unfair system in selecting a party

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #198 on: November 15, 2022, 02:57:33 pm »
I think that bringing in PR would be the end of the Labour Party.  So I can understand why the leader of the Labour party would be against it.  It's the right thing for the country though.Honestly In think this election is too important.  I'm fine with a safety first approach this time around.  It's been 12 years of spectacular destruction by this government and we need to get them out and spend at least one term just putting all the fires out.  After that we can get a bit more imaginative.

In what way mate?
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #199 on: November 15, 2022, 02:59:43 pm »

It would be the end of the Labour Party as sole rulers but the likelihood of a broad left government on a permanent basis. Only about 40-45% of people are committed to Tory Values, they should not gain power on the back of that.


Politics is sick anyway, it needs to grow up
I'm not so sure about that, everyone assumes it will lead to permanent Lib/Lab coalitions but you could easily see a trade union style 'Lexit' party finding cause with a UKIP style anti-immigration party for example.

I am in favour of PR for what it's worth.