Topic: Roy Evans

[RedMike-86-]

This thread will almost certainly turn into an Evans Vs Houllier debate with the same old arguments on both sides being trotted out. Always happens when Roy Evans is involved in a thread!

Shame.

[TSC]

Roy's appointment has more to do with us selling to the yanks than any other decision.

As for Souness. He was poor, but he didn't have the youngsters that Roy had. He also brought some gems amongst all the C@ck he bought. He also won a better trophy in his time compared to Roy. 

You abviously tear Roy a new arse in some of your posts, but to say he was worse than Souness is rubbish.  Souness sold the likes of Beardsley, McMahon, etc and bought in the likes of Kozma and Piechnik.  Souness had the side which had won the league the previous season.  He fucked it well up.  Yes he did win the FA cup, but this was before he totally lost it.  By the way I seem to rem Macmanaman getting MOM in that cup final so Souness did have some of the 'youngsters' comig through.  It was only Fowler who really came through under Evans.

Roy definately steadied things following Souness.  Can't you rem Souness's final days - getting knocked out of cups in successive seasons by Bristol City & Bolton (both 2 divisions below I believe at the time) and at one stage losing 4-1 at home to Chesterfield in the league cup?

[sattapaartridge]

And if it was top 4 to qualify in Roy's time, he wouldn't have achieved that either. He always fell short. I know he did finish in the top 4, but finshing 3rd or 4th achieved nothing. If it had meant  something, I'm betting Roy wouldn't have achieved it.

i dont agree, the football we played was brilliant. had we even get into the champions league just once, we would have attracted more players and we could have been a world force. because we didnt, we attracted players who would settle for playing UEFA cup football.

its a big "what if" but who knows eh? i dont think you can guarantee that Roy would have failed.

at the end of the day, it was roy who gave us the famous 4-3 that no one will be able to forget. what a game.

[markmywords]

Don't buy that. Back in 94, Liverpool FC was only 3 years from being former champions. We were still one of the best 2 teams in the land. we could have appointed the best manager in the land to take over from Souness. I would say if either Houillier or Rafa had taken over from Souness, we would be not talking about whether we could win no 19 right now.

We finished 6th in '93 and 8th in '94

How does that make us one of the top 2 teams in the land?  If we were top 2 after finishing 6th, we must have been world no.1, when we finished 3rd under Evans.

The 1990 title winning side was totally gone by 1994. We were very much on a downward spiral, with people laughing at our demise and top players running a mile from us, see Keane, Shearer, sutton et al

Taking over then would not have been any easier than it was for Houllier or Rafa soon after.

[Sweet Silver Song]

You abviously tear Roy a new arse in some of your posts, but to say he was worse than Souness is rubbish.  Souness sold the likes of Beardsley, McMahon, etc and bought in the likes of Kozma and Piechnik.  Souness had the side which had won the league the previous season.  He fucked it well up.  Yes he did win the FA cup, but this was before he totally lost it.  By the way I seem to rem Macmanaman getting MOM in that cup final so Souness did have some of the 'youngsters' comig through.  It was only Fowler who really came through under Evans.

Roy definately steadied things following Souness.  Can't you rem Souness's final days - getting knocked out of cups in successive seasons by Bristol City & Bolton (both 2 divisions below I believe at the time) and at one stage losing 4-1 at home to Chesterfield in the league cup?

Souness didn't cover himself in glory with some of his transfer dealings. But in Rob Jones, he bought the best right back I have ever seen in English Football.

As for the previous championship winning team. It was these same players who decided not to play for him and get him the sack. If you read Fowler's account of the time, it makes quite depressing reading. Souness made mistakes, but I don't think the players he inherited can honestly say they played for their manager.

[Sweet Silver Song]

i dont agree, the football we played was brilliant. had we even get into the champions league just once, we would have attracted more players and we could have been a world force. because we didnt, we attracted players who would settle for playing UEFA cup football.

its a big "what if" but who knows eh? i dont think you can guarantee that Roy would have failed.

at the end of the day, it was roy who gave us the famous 4-3 that no one will be able to forget. what a game.

You know what. I was actually relived we never played more often in Europe under Roy. Because we still had a glorious reputation in Europe at the time, and Roy was doing his best in places like Strasbourg and Auxerre and at home to Brondby to try and undo all the good from the previous 3 decades of achievement.

[SteveZissou]

Had the honesty to admit that when he and Livermore left they were bitter for a few months, and that they wanted the results to turn bad

 

[Sweet Silver Song]

We finished 6th in '93 and 8th in '94

How does that make us one of the top 2 teams in the land?  If we were top 2 after finishing 6th, we must have been world no.1, when we finished 3rd under Evans.

The 1990 title winning side was totally gone by 1994. We were very much on a downward spiral, with people laughing at our demise and top players running a mile from us, see Keane, Shearer, sutton et al

Taking over then would not have been any easier than it was for Houllier or Rafa soon after.

Top 2 based on fan base and wealth.

The last time we broke the British transfer record was when Roy was manager.

We are further away from that position now.

1994 was the time we could have got back. We missed the opportunity, which may never come again.

[TSC]

Souness didn't cover himself in glory with some of his transfer dealings. But in Rob Jones, he bought the best right back I have ever seen in English Football.

As for the previous championship winning team. It was these same players who decided not to play for him and get him the sack. If you read Fowler's account of the time, it makes quite depressing reading. Souness made mistakes, but I don't think the players he inherited can honestly say they played for their manager.

Souness himself has since admitted he tried to change everything much too quickly, from disregarding the boot room philosophy to showing senior players the door.  He'd obviously thought the model which was successful at Rangers would work at Anfield, and he painfully learnt it was a completely different kettle of fish.  Unfortunately the trait that had served him so well as a player in midfield for Liverpool led to his downfall as a manager = arrogance.  He alienated the senior players with his approach and as you rightly said a few prob didn't give a toss for his approach.

Anyway, off on a tangent there as the thread is about Evans as opposed to Souness.

[markmywords]

Top 2 based on fan base and wealth.

The last time we broke the British transfer record was when Roy was manager.

We are further away from that position now.

1994 was the time we could have got back. We missed the opportunity, which may never come again.

We are still strong

only 3 brit clubs have spent 20m+, we are one of those

I think you forget how much of a laughing stock we were in the early 90's

Souness talks about it in his book, how potential signings wanted nothing to do with our sinking ship.  Evans did a decent job, in tough circumstances

[Sweet Silver Song]

We are still strong

only 3 brit clubs have spent 20m+, we are one of those

I think you forget how much of a laughing stock we were in the early 90's

Souness talks about it in his book, how potential signings wanted nothing to do with our sinking ship.  Evans did a decent job, in tough circumstances

This is my point. Getting the right manager would have helped us sign the right players. In that list I posted above about various attributes a a manager needs. There was one attribute I didn't list; Respect.

Unfortunately Roy achieved nothing as a player. And therefore didn't even command that from his players, or potential signings. That's at least one attribute Souness had over Roy.

[TSC]

This is my point. Getting the right manager would have helped us sign the right players. In that list I posted above about various attributes a a manager needs. There was one attribute I didn't list; Respect.

Unfortunately Roy achieved nothing as a player. And therefore didn't even command that from his players, or potential signings. That's at least one attribute Souness had over Roy.

In Roy's defence what he achieved as a coach deserves a mention.  He served under Shanks, Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish and Souness.  Your assasination (about 10 posts) in a thread focussing on his positives is a bit disrespectfull to what he has achieved.

[markmywords]

This is my point. Getting the right manager would have helped us sign the right players. In that list I posted above about various attributes a a manager needs. There was one attribute I didn't list; Respect.

Unfortunately Roy achieved nothing as a player. And therefore didn't even command that from his players, or potential signings. That's at least one attribute Souness had over Roy.

fair point, but such respect only goes so far, compare wenger/rafa with barnes

Souness was not able to use this 'respect' to sign big names like Keane or shearer when they became available

Players were turning us down like the ugly girl at the party, Roy had to use his coaching skills to mould a team largely with what he had, and did this reasonably well, with the 3-5-2 formation built around the mercurial macca

[Sweet Silver Song]

In Roy's defence what he achieved as a coach deserves a mention.  He served under Shanks, Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish and Souness.  Your assasination (about 10 posts) in a thread focussing on his positives is a bit disrespectfull to what he has achieved.

Let's be clear here. Roy was a great servent to this club, and a fabulous bloke. In his previous roles as a coach, asssitant manager, reserve team manager - he was faultless. I don't even blame him for his time as manager. He was doing his best, and what he thought was the best for our club. I don't balme him for that. Not one bit. But I do blame Moores for appointing him.

[riise6]

Coca Cola Cup against Bolton 94

95 was it not? remember standing in the tunnel with all the team was one of the warmest days of the year met ray clemence after the game class day all round !!!

[SingaRed]

And as Rafa Benitez improves the side, we've collected trophies on the way. We were getting humiliated in Europe under Evans, whenever we came up against a tactically aware team we were humped. That PSG tie pretty much summed up Evans for me. All at sea away, all blood and thunder at home. No tactical discipline, no discipline off the pitch.

If you can't see the improvement and the way Rafa has managed us in pretty shitty circumstances then there really isn't much more to say.
Bill Shankly had to build a team too. It's only because he built it so well that the likes of Paisley, Fagan and Dalglish could afford to just tweak it. But who gets the credit for laying the foundations? Shankly.

Can't you see that Benitez is doing the same job right now? And despite our almost painfully slow march to close the gap on the top (which has been closing), we've been winning trophies.
Benitez is learning and learning fast, if he had the money our rivals have or the time they've had, we'd be there.

Y do u get so angry when he say anything bad about Rafa. Face it guys Avram Grant was sacked because to the Chelsea board 2nd is not good enough. So Rafa has not won a trophy since the Gerrard inspired FA Cup final. So are you still going to shoot anybody who criticise Rafa.

[Sweet Silver Song]

Y do u get so angry when he say anything bad about Rafa. Face it guys Avram Grant was sacked because to the Chelsea board 2nd is not good enough. So Rafa has not won a trophy since the Gerrard inspired FA Cup final. So are you still going to shoot anybody who criticise Rafa.

Bollocks. Why is Rafa even being mentioned in a thread about Evans? I'm one of Rafa's critics on here. I'm also one of his biggest fans. Just don't compare him with Roy please.

[LFCGreg]

Whatever Evan's failings were as a manager we played some cracking football under him, especially in 95/96 at Anfield.

Happy days.

[Britvic Orange]

Souness didn't cover himself in glory with some of his transfer dealings. But in Rob Jones, he bought the best right back I have ever seen in English Football.

As for the previous championship winning team. It was these same players who decided not to play for him and get him the sack. If you read Fowler's account of the time, it makes quite depressing reading. Souness made mistakes, but I don't think the players he inherited can honestly say they played for their manager.

Souness also brought through Redknapp, Hutchinson, McManaman and Fowler which needs to be mentioned.

[conman]

This thread will almost certainly turn into an Evans Vs Houllier debate with the same old arguments on both sides being trotted out. Always happens when Roy Evans is involved in a thread!

and rafa and souness!

Roy Evans was top notch, and our biggest weakness at the end of his tenure was set pieces, fom james unreliability and our defences unability to clear a well taken corner/free kick, it cost us many points. we struggled in this department when mark Wright was never replaced, if only we had found someone like Sami earlier....

so to all Roys high placed finishes, if we could have had more stability in the back in certain scenarios, then we would have been a much stronger challenger.

i liked Roy, loved the football we played under him, even though we were not bringing home the silverware, i think we were quite optimistic seeing such good football, and the hope was there to win.

[Sweet Silver Song]

I disagree about him not having the defenders. It was his lack of defensive organisation that cost us more than the personnel. Mark Wright was one of the best English defenders of his day. Even someone like Phil Babb had all the basic qualities a defender needed. If someone like Rafa had got hold of them at the time, he could have quite easily turned that side into champions with no additional purchases. It just needed the right man in charge.

[Neil D]

Well our defensive records were good in 1994-95 under Roy, and superb in 1995-96, the year we looked most likely to win the league under Evans. Pretty sure we conceded the least goals in the league that year along with United, edging out Aston Villa. Mark Wright was often injured, but we had a fairly regular trio of Ruddock, Babb and Scales plus Jones and McAteer on the flanks that did a very good job defensively, and those two fullbacks/wingbacks offensively as well. The biggest mistake Roy made that year was bringing Redknapp back into the team at the expense of Thomas when we were on a great run, playing sublime football inspired by Macca, Robbie, Barnes and Collymore - the likes of which we haven't seen since - and we were in with a good chance of a league and cup double.

[Oddball]

Y do u get so angry when he say anything bad about Rafa. Face it guys Avram Grant was sacked because to the Chelsea board 2nd is not good enough. So Rafa has not won a trophy since the Gerrard inspired FA Cup final. So are you still going to shoot anybody who criticise Rafa.

The thing is though, Chelsea are trying to be Real Madrid, as in, even if you win the league and or European Cup (yes i know they won neither this season), unless it was pretty football, the manager gets sacked. Our league is bad enough as it is for sacking managers, not giving them time to implement their idea's etc, without the likes of Chelsea going down the Real route. Fuck, losing the league on the last day of the season, and losing the Champions league final is a sackable offence!

[nidgemo]

However, you've been bringing up Rafa's league performances wherever you can and it's frustrating

You're right there.

[SMD]

Y do u get so angry when he say anything bad about Rafa. Face it guys Avram Grant was sacked because to the Chelsea board 2nd is not good enough. So Rafa has not won a trophy since the Gerrard inspired FA Cup final. So are you still going to shoot anybody who criticise Rafa.

There's so much wrong in your post I don't know where to start. Are you actually advocating sacking a manager after barely a season for coming second?
Rafa hasn't won a trophy could be spun into Rafa was a miracle worker winning two trophies in his first two seasons as manager.

Think before you post.

[Shanks1965]

Roy Evans - failed to take advantage of the the most talented group of youngsters we ever had at the club.

Discuss?

Yes he did and its a crying shame we weren't more successfull with them. You have to think had Fergusson had the same crop of young talent he'd have won the league with it.

Like many here I loved the football we played at times under Evo BUT we were also at times incredibly boring to watch. We seemed to think that the object of the game was to pass it as many times as possible and end up back were we started and then see how many times we could complete the circuit.

A decent man though and a red through and through who did the decent thing and walked away when the double act of Moores and Parry dreamed up the genius idea of joint managers.

Hang on... joint managers... joint owners? Some people just seem to never learn, do they?

[nidgemo]

Not buying that. Roy was a nearly man. Rafa is a winner. Roy never got us into the CL. Rafa has continuously. I think the season Roy's team finished 4th in a 2 horse race says everything.

It says that Roy got us much closer to the top 2 than Rafa has...

[Trousers]

It says that Roy got us much closer to the top 2 than Rafa has...

And if Roy had matched Rafa's league points record he would have won the league twice.
What's your point?

[Sweet Silver Song]

It says that Roy got us much closer to the top 2 than Rafa has...

Points wise or position wise?

[Shanks1965]

Points wise or position wise?

Both isn't it?

Under Evans there were occassions when we could see a clear chance of winning the league with few games to go and providing results went in our favour. We have, thus far, never been that close with Rafa although the bar has been raised a lot higher with the emergence of cash rich Chelsea and the determination of United to match and beat them.

Getting close is much harder now than it was when Evans was in charge in my view.

[Sweet Silver Song]

Both isn't it?

Under Evans there were occassions when we could see a clear chance of winning the league with few games to go and providing results went in our favour. We have, thus far, never been that close with Rafa although the bar has been raised a lot higher with the emergence of cash rich Chelsea and the determination of United to match and beat them.

Getting close is much harder now than it was when Evans was in charge in my view.

Even if Roy went into the last game of the season still in with a chance, you could guarantee we'd choke. Because that's what we did in those days. He could never get us over the finish line. Rafa and Houillier arguably never got us into the position as Roy in terms of a league championship race, but both these guys are winners. They can be relied upon to deliver when we most needed it. Even, in Houillier's last season. That race for the final champions league place against Newcastle, Ged got us there, he didn't choke. Whereas Roy finshed 4th in that season you have mentioned above when we were supposed to be challenging for the title. Fourth! Think about it. Even finishing second that year would have got us into the Champions League. But fourth...

People like Ged and Rafa don't choke, they're winners. Just like the traditions our club is built on.

[Shanks1965]

Even if Roy went into the last game of the season still in with a chance, you could guarantee we'd choke. Because that's what we did in those days. He could never get us over the finish line. Rafa and Houillier arguably never got us into the position as Roy in terms of a league championship race, but both these guys are winners. They can be relied upon to deliver when we most needed it. Even, in Houillier's last season. That race for the final champions league place against Newcastle, Ged got us there, he didn't choke. Whereas Roy finshed 4th in that season you have mentioned above when we were supposed to be challenging for the title. Fourth! Think about it. Even finishing second that year would have got us into the Champions League. But fourth...

People like Ged and Rafa don't choke, they're winners. Just like the traditions our club is built on.

I don't disagree although you have to be in the race to have a chance of winning it.

[Sweet Silver Song]

I don't disagree although you have to be in the race to have a chance of winning it.

Given this trait Roy had IMHO. Were we really ever in the race at all?

[the_prodigal_s0n]

Given this trait Roy had IMHO. Were we really ever in the race at all?

A lot of people say we were in the race in '97 but I never really thought we were to be honest.

[nidgemo]

Points wise or position wise?

both...

higher average position after 4 years, and smaller average gap to the winners after 4 years

[Illmatic]

A lot of people say we were in the race in '97 but I never really thought we were to be honest.

Yes we were in race we were in with a realistic chance of winning with about half dozen games to go something which has not happen since last won the league. At the time I never thought we would do it tho.

[west_london_red]

Maybe Roy achieved nothing as a player. Nor did Rafa or Wenger did they?

Souness achieved plenty as a player, and is im preety sure the most sacked manager in European football.

I cant believe the number of people on this board who are slating a man who gave 20+ years to our club.

Hold your heads in shame the lot of you

This is my point. Getting the right manager would have helped us sign the right players. In that list I posted above about various attributes a a manager needs. There was one attribute I didn't list; Respect.

Unfortunately Roy achieved nothing as a player. And therefore didn't even command that from his players, or potential signings. That's at least one attribute Souness had over Roy.

[nidgemo]

Given this trait Roy had IMHO. Were we really ever in the race at all?

I appreciate your point, but if the managers going to be the cause of the team choking, id rather choke in april or may, than be choked by your own suffocation tactics before christmas.

[Illmatic]

I always wonder why Evans never got another high profile job at another club does anyone else? I mean by all accounts Sourness was disaster at Liverpool but it never stopped him getting several high profile postions at various different clubs and finally a comfy chair with sly sports.

[Stef08]

We were alot closer to winning the league under Roy than we have ever under Rafa.......Remember i think it was 1996/7 when we had a great chance going into April but we lost 3-1 to Mancs. I always liked him would take him back now for sure him and Sammy Lee would win us number 19, something unfortunately Rafa cant do